Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Do you want my honest-to-God answer to this question? Maybe he wanted to tweet this, alongside his previous opener, because he's done. He's had enough.

You know that there were people still bothering and requesting him characters while he was mourning Incineroar's VA when the trailer dropped for him? Here, let me link you the Tweet, and you'll find some. https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1058014220162293760

It even shows in that one part that people can resonate with Sakurai in the November Direct. "I wonder if I'll ever get a break." Just imagine being Sakurai, getting more and more of these requests and probably even complaints from some people on that tweet after the Direct aired, and ESPECIALLY with the Piranha Plant causing quite the knee-jerk reaction. There are not many instances where a Japanese developer can really open up and give it to people straight in the eye, but in those two tweets, you're never gonna get a moment like that again.

Now look, was I mad or sad that I didn't see the likes of Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Rex & Pyra or who have you show up in the roster? Kinda, yeah, but I already have so much ****ing content, that I can wait very comfortably until the day they arrive as DLC. Was I disappointed at the Direct? Yeah, but the content that they've already shown is still in the game, and looking back more and more, this game is looking still as promising as it were before the Direct aired.

He has almost destroyed his family life and marriage producing Melee, developed calcific tendinitis overtime and straight up almost ****ing killed himself while producing Smash For.

Yet it still. Ain't. Enough.

So could you blame Sakurai for this one instance to be completely dead honest?

I think Sakurai needs to retire after Ultimate. The man has done enough for us.

 

[PsySmasher]

How can it be worse than those two? The way you put it make it sound like Armageddon...

How could anything be worse than GameFAQs?

They're toxic when they have nothing to complain about.
Imagine if they ACTUALLY had something to complain about.

 

[ClaTheBae]

How could anything be worse than GameFAQs?

I promise 4chan is a significant moral downgrade from GameFAQs

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Hey not all Americans are like that you know, don't stereotype.g

Im from Kalos so Im not one so Im not sure, but I have seen quite a few bad ones on social media.

 

[KMDP]

t even shows in that one part that people can resonate with Sakurai in the November Direct. "I wonder if I'll ever get a break."

I think you're reading too much into that.

He was clearly smiling when he said that, he knows people worry about his health, but ultimately loves what he does.

It was a fun little nod to the fans.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Im not one so Im not sure, but I have seen quite a few bad ones on social media.

Then dislike them as individuals. Don't lump them in with every other American.

 

[Deleted member]

They're toxic when they have nothing to complain about.
Imagine if they ACTUALLY had something to complain about.

GameFAQs always has something to complain about.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Then dislike them as individuals. Don't lump them in with every other American.

Ok, but alot of the ones I dont like look like Randy Orton clones.. Except they wear pants.

 

[ButterGeek]

So, what do yall think are the chances of Lara Croft being the Square Enix rep instead of Geno/Sora?

 

[ChronoBound]

The modern day journalist is the biggest joke of a working individual, so really I don't care what they get outraged over. They can cry all they want for I care. They can call me once they want to be taken seriously again.

Fuzzy Pickles got blocked by the editor of Game Informer for simply saying he thought the feather was not racist. Unfortunately, many people who work in writing for the game industry are very closesd minded and intolerant individuals, who seem to possess a lack of tolerance for those who have differing opinions or worldviews (you can see this case in point with the clowns over at resetera).

 

[Deleted member]

I think you're reading too much into that.

He was clearly smiling when he said that, he knows people worry about his health, but ultimately loves what he does.

It was a fun little nod to the fans.

Oh no, don't get me wrong. People do, and I do, too. But I just cannot express how much we really take Sakurai for granted, and if he doesn't get an industry icon at the VGAs this year, that really just only goes to show that the ones left ignored are the greatest.

 

[Zinith]

Then dislike them as individuals. Don't lump them in with every other American.

WHAT?!!! Treat people as individuals and not groups?!!! Poppycock!!!

 

[N3ON]

your answer is: probably not but eventually these things do catch up if they're not addressed in game biz.

The perfect example of this is EA with Battlefront 2. They've made dozens of faulty mistakes on similar scales before and never received so much as a small tap on the back; If any other company had done what they did with Battlefront, I assure you they wouldn't be met with as much scrutiny.

Companies do this to protect their own hide. It's in their best interest.

(Hope I answered well for the thread)

Nintendo's actions make sense, but one example is a build-up of similar transgressions while the other is a relatively isolated incident. I'm not judging the actions of either here past the fact they aren't exactly on equal footing.

But yeah, thanks. The first part was really all I was touching on. I guess I was just thinking out loud, because I already kinda knew the answer.

I think avoiding that period of time where all the negative press is happening is probably just worth it in the long run. The only boon I could see is on-the-fence fans buying the game to spite the "ess-jay-dubyahs" for being "too sensitive."

I'm not saying it greatly benefits them to keep it in either. Either way, the overall impact will be minimal.

I mean, the decision to remove it won't impact sales either?

Also can people stop with the "PEOPLE TOO SENSITIVE" cause like, back in the good old days, people were so sensitive to the fact a comedy movie made jokes about Christianity and banned it for a while. That's a lot more thinskinned than people would let you believe people were like then

This almost implies I wouldn't take issue with a movie being banned for making fun of religion.

But thanks for presuming my mindset.

Honestly, the reaction to the backlash is far worse than the backlash itself. Which is an internet rule I learned a while ago. The only thing worse than complainers are the people complaining about the complainers.

They're treating a simple "Hey, this could be in bad taste" reaction like it were hordes of slavering hippies.

Unfortunately that's just sort of where we're at nowadays. The radicalized voices speak the loudest.

 

[ClaTheBae]

So, what do yall think are the chances of Lara Croft being the Square Enix rep instead of Geno/Sora?

I would say unlikely but who the hell knows at this point. Nintendo and Sakurai are so goddamn unpredictable I don't even see a point in speculating and giving myself a headache

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I dont care about Indians, I care about Super Smash Bros and wrestling.. And all that is the beautiful world created for Team Flare

 

[Idon]

WHAT?!!! Treat people as individuals and not groups?!!! Poppycock!!!

"Smash fans are the worst"
-Smash fan

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

WHAT?!!! Treat people as individuals and not groups?!!! Poppycock!!!

There is only one iconic group that rules this world and that group is Team Flare.. HAIL LYSANDRE

 

[FixedFun]

I lve the new Classic Mode, the fact that Ryu has all his battles set like the original Street Fighter (with HP, and basic stages) is soooo cute for some reason

 

[Deleted member]

"Smash fans are the worst"
-Smash fan

"Damn Smash fans! They ruined Smash Bros!"
-An Overused Meme

 

[A.G.L.]

Going back to this point that you completely skipped over, can you describe

• How you conducted your research (including sources would be great as well)
• Any interesting trends or correlations you found
• Who you personally believe the Square Enix rep will be

I'm actually very interested in what you have to say, and I might try to do some research of my own as well.

Sure here is some of my research, please note I conducted a lot of this research with Geno in mind. As Geno at the time had the highest chance of making into Smash Ultimate besides Sora. In order to compare fully against Dragon Quest or Lara Croft I would need to do more research as whose odds are better. The reason I did not just state Nier Automota is because 2B is already in Soul Calibur 6. I did not choose a new FF rep as they are already represented by Cloud. And the most logical contender would be Noctis, and he is already in Tekken 7.


DLC Character #1 Square Enix 2nd representative, Sora from Kingdom Hearts.

The reason I chose Sora over Geno



#1 Sales
According to Sales data on Square Enix game franchises, Kingdom Hearts placed 4th with a total 24 million (8 titles). To compare Super Mario RPG placed 8th with only 7.42 million. Out of the sales Final Fantasy placed 1st with 144 million followed by Dragon Quest in 2nd with 75 million in sales and Tomb Raider in 3rd with 60 million sales. Please note we do not know KH3 sales and this could cause the Kingdom Hearts Series to climb to the number one spot.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_Square-Enix_games


#2 Overall Game Popularity
According to the best Square Enix games published by ranker.com. Kingdom Hearts 2 placed number 1 on the popularity list. Super Mario RPG (the Game Geno comes from) did not place on the list. According to Best and 5 Worst games by Screen Rant Super Mario RPG placed 9th best if you factor out the worst games from the list. While Kingdom Hearts 2 placed 3rd on the list following Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6. It should be noted though that Kingdom hearts placed 6th in What Cultures best RPG’s of all time and Super Mario RPG placed 5th beating it in that list.

https://www.ranker.com/list/square-enix-games-list/reference
https://screenrant.com/square-enix-games-best-worst-ranked/
http://whatculture.com/gaming/10-best-square-enix-rpgs-time?page=11

#3 Overall Character Popularity
According to Watch Mojo Top 10 Square Enix Characters Sora placed 6th and Geno placed 10th. The first 5 characters were Cloud 1st, Chrono 2nd, Maxim 3rd, Slime 4th and Nekuda 5th
https://www.watchmojo.com/suggest/Top+10+Square+Enix+Characters

#4 Nintendo Profitability
Super Mario RPG only has one title, that sold impressively and was highly praised by IGN gaining a 9.5/10, EGM 8.75/10 and Game rankings with a 89%. Kingdom Hearts has 8 titles with several remasters and a 9th title Kingdom Hearts 3 being released soon. Kingdom Hearts 1 alone received a 9/10 from IGN, 8.2/10 from Gamespot and received several awards including best story, best art and excellence in visuals. Compared to Kingdom Hearts, Super Mario RPG has has only one title and would most likely not receive a second due to it competing with the Mario and Luigi RPG’s. Whereas in the case of Sora, several Kingdom Hearts games have been on Nintendo game consoles and could potentially all be released for the Nintendo Switch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_RPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Hearts_(video_game)

#5 Square Enix Patterns
Square Enix when choosing their characters to be in another company's game. They will tend choose characters that represent the company, that are current, and that will help them cross promote. Or they will choose characters with the potential of establishing further relationship with them and another company and the likelihood of new games being released together. Examples of this in past Square history are the following. Cloud appearing in Smash Brothers Wii U and this opening the door for later Nintendo Square partnerships. Noctis Lucis Caellum and Ardyn Izunia appearing in Assassins Creed Origin's helping to cross promote FF15. Noctis cross promoting in the Tekken franchise by appearing in Tekken 7. Behemoth appearing in Monster Hunter World to promote FF14 Heavesward. 2B from Nier Automota appearing in Soul Calibur 6 to help cross promote Nier Automota. Or they will even cross promote within their own games, examples FF characters in KH series and Neku from World Ends with you in KH Dream Drop Distance.
Examples of partnership games born out off guest characters, Octopath Traveler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wah7AGkkzl4&t=22s

https://kotaku.com/there-is-now-some-final-fantasy-xv-in-assassin-s-creed-1821445534

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/03/09/tekken-7-noctis-final-fantasy-stream/

https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/12/1...ster-hunter-world-crossover-armor-weapon-date

https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/27/18032046/soulcalibur-6-nier-automata-2b-guest-character-dlc

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113055-The-World-Ends-With-You-Invades-Kingdom-Hearts

https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/12/17563366/octopath-traveler-review-nintendo-switch-jrpg

Conclusion
Sora has more logical factors in his favor than just Smash Bros popularity. Outside of Super Smash Bros Sora is more popular, more profitable, and has more of a future as a character than Geno. Kingdom Hearts has more of a future as a game series than Super Mario RPG does. It makes more logical sense to add Sora than Geno because Sora overall would be more profitable and popular both in terms of Smash Bros fans and Square Enix fans. Finally when Nintendo makes 3rd party deals. We often see the characters are also seen as partnerships to have more of their games in Nintendo platforms or have had many games on Nintendo platforms. In the case with Super Mario RPG if it had a second game, it would most likely compete with the Mario and Luigi RPG’s as both games share characters and similar elements. Logically I do not see Nintendo wanting to make a second Super Mario RPG game because of it competing with the existing Mario and Luigi RPG games. With Kingdom Hearts on the other hand, Square Enix could import all the Kingdom Hearts games to a collection and release it for the Nintendo Switch. Also Tetsuya Nomura has expressed interest in bringing Kingdom Hearts 3 to the Nintendo Switch. All of these factors and the fact that Disney would allow Sora to be in Smash Bros Ultimate (See HMK interview) lead to him having a higher probability than Geno. Also Disney's own relationship with Nintendo is currently very high, as seen with them joining forces to promote the Nintendo Switch.

Sora aside from a Dragon Quest character has the highest probability in my opinion to make it as the 2nd Square Enix representative.
If I had to choose which character I think would be the second Sqaure representative. I would say it is Sora, despite involving Disney. Sora has the highest potential for sales as he is a more global known character. With KH3 being released around a similar time as Smash Ultimate, and Square's love for cross promoting, his chances are very high. Thank You for taking the time to read my research, and I encourage you to do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Side note, I will be looking further into the matter of Kingdom Hearts vs. Dragon Quest to see which has the highest probability.


(Tetsuya Nomura open to the idea of Kingdom Hearts 3 being on Nintendo Switch)
https://gamerant.com/kingdom-hearts-3-switch-nintendo/


(HMK Interview)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV76QegRezE

(Nintendo & Disney)
https://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-disney-switch-show-2018-6
https://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/d...nnels-nintendo-switch-family-showdown-contest

 

[KMDP]

WHAT?!!! Treat people as individuals and not groups?!!! Poppycock!!!

"We're all individuals!"
"I'm not..."

 

[Idon]

"Damn Smash fans! They ruined Smash Bros!"
-An Overused Meme

oldmanyellingoutwindow.png

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Only the chosen ones with Team Flare will receive a ticket to tomorrow.. Team Flare is the future!

 

[KMDP]

"Damn Smash fans! They ruined Smash Bros!"
-An Overused Meme

"Smash fans are a contentious people."
"You've just made an enemy for life!"

 

[Dee Dude]

Ouch.

At this point, I think Sakurai outright needs to step down as Director so he can move on with other projects and maybe even spend time with his family, plus some new blood trying out the series could be an interesting direction as long as they know what they’re doing and can live up to Sakurai’s legacy.

Of course if he refuses to step down and continue the series then that takes some massive dedication and passion which is something I have to completely respect him not only as a developer but as a person.

 

[ClaTheBae]

If someone put a gun to my head and told me to honestly guess a DLC character, I think Sora would probably be the safest bet.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Instead of removing the feather, how about give Game and Watch a rain dance dancing gimmick with the feather instead

 

[RyuhoFox]

So it's just the feather being removed from it for the G&W attack? Would be harder to figure out what it is referencing but otherwise don't mind it. Glad they didn't have to alter the whole animation back though. Like the extra bit of character it gives them.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I was trying to refrain from the joining in on the topic for G&W's new F-smash, but now that we know its getting removed I'll bite.

It was not horribly offensive or anything but it was a tad bit insensitive. I'm not sure how many adults still believe the "natives were savages" stereotype but it's still not really in good taste to do anything to perpetuate it regardless.

At the end of the day that feather was an incredibily miniscule detail and removing it is not some sort of huge deal. "The reference is lost" doesn't even hold up because everything else about the animation aside from the feather will still be there from the sounds of it. If you're angry Nintendo is making the understandable choice of patching it out you probably need to find real controversies to get angry over.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Everybody's debating an old, yet controversial Game and Watch game that was actually altered for the Gallery rerelease

And I'm just sitting here trying to work crunch time into an assignment that's due first thing in the morning​

 

[SuperSceptile15]

During Nintendo's Japanese livestream, one of Mr. Game & Watch's attacks was shown off. It was referencing offensive depiction of Native Americans.

We reached out for Nintendo for an statement. The feather will be removed from Mr. Game & Watch's attack. pic.twitter.com/dOwNqjrV8J

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 7, 2018

Welp, it's happening.

I can't help but kinda feel bad for Sakurai, it must mean a little extra work. At least it doesn't seem to be too bad.

I find it funny that very few Native Americans were complaining about this compared to everyone else. It's ironic how most of the so called offensive stereotypes are brought up by white people instead, and them thinking they need to speak for other races is a pretty racist thing in itself. Regardless, this change will have a minuscule impact on the game, so it isn't a big deal at all. I just can't stand people who love to get on their high horse and virtue signal. Oh well...

 

[Idon]

I was trying to refrain from the joining in on the topic for G&W's new F-smash, but now that we know its getting removed I'll bite.

It was not horribly offensive or anything but it was a tad bit insensitive. I'm not sure how many adults still believe the "natives were savages" stereotype but it's still not really in good taste to do anything to perpetuate it regardless.

At the end of the day that feather was an incredibily miniscule detail and removing it is not some sort of huge deal. "The reference is lost" doesn't even hold up because everything else about the animation aside from the feather will still be there from the sounds of it. If you're angry Nintendo is making the understandable choice of patching it out you probably need to find real controversies to get angry over.

It's a good thing nobody plays Game and Watch to begin with.

 

[Deleted member]

Everybody's debating an old, yet controversial Game and Watch game that was actually altered for the Gallery rerelease

And I'm just sitting here trying to work crunch time into an assignment that's due first thing in the morning​

Relatable. College is a *****.

 

[Zinith]

Watch the removed feather actually HELP G&W's meta because it was an extended hurtbox...

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Mod edit: this post contained racist remarks against Native Americans, and the user was banned for this kind of content.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Mod edit: the post was removed for racist remarks

this ain't it

 

[Noipoi]

Everybody's debating an old, yet controversial Game and Watch game that was actually altered for the Gallery rerelease

And I'm just sitting here trying to work crunch time into an assignment that's due first thing in the morning​

Hah! Loser! I'm up because I don't...have a life...
h-haha...

 

[TreeBranch]

I was trying to refrain from the joining in on the topic for G&W's new F-smash, but now that we know its getting removed I'll bite.

It was not horribly offensive or anything but it was a tad bit insensitive. I'm not sure how many adults still believe the "natives were savages" stereotype but it's still not really in good taste to do anything to perpetuate it regardless.

At the end of the day that feather was an incredibily miniscule detail and removing it is not some sort of huge deal. "The reference is lost" doesn't even hold up because everything else about the animation aside from the feather will still be there from the sounds of it. If you're angry Nintendo is making the understandable choice of patching it out you probably need to find real controversies to get angry over.

I just thought the feather looked cooler. The bandits look super bland imo. Yeah, you're right though, it isn't that big of a deal.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Mod edit: racism against Native Americans.

They're not cavemen. Many Native Americans actually live normal lives just like us.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

this ain't it

We need Matt Dillon to keep them in line