Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Thirdkoopa]

N3ON Anytime! I mostly touched on the rest for the thread. I know you get it; you're honestly one of my favorite users to read posts of from here.

 

[N3ON]

stuff that probably shouldn't have been said

You gotta pull back there, dude. That's no good.

 

[Deleted member]

Mod edit: racist remarks against Native Americans.

Hello? Vox Day? I that you?

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

They're not cavemen. Many Native Americans actually live normal lives just like us.

Nah, give em a dancing gimmick! Indians getting jiggy with it, World Wrestling Federation Entertainment!!

 

[PsySmasher]

Everybody's debating an old, yet controversial Game and Watch game that was actually altered for the Gallery rerelease

And I'm just sitting here trying to work crunch time into an assignment that's due first thing in the morning​

RIP. I know the feeling buddy.

Anyway, with the recent tweets regarding Smash DLC, do you think there's a chance that a character from a new/upcoming game now has a chance of getting in, or do you think the DLC will be characters that are pre-project plan?

 

[ClaTheBae]

We need Matt Dillon to keep them in line

bro might wanna chill with the comments it's getting kinda insensitive

 

[Deleted member]

Ouch.

At this point, I think Sakurai outright needs to step down as Director so he can move on with other projects and maybe even spend time with his family, plus some new blood trying out the series could be an interesting direction as long as they know what they’re doing and can live up to Sakurai’s legacy.

Of course if he refuses to step down and continue the series then that takes some massive dedication and passion which is something I have to completely respect him not only as a developer but as a person.

Here's the problem: he's so indited to Smash Bros., he physically and mentally cannot step down, because he's doing this for us. We're not talking about Masuda stepping down because of some questionable choices to Pokemon, we're talking about Sakurai.

He doesn't want to step down because it's literally his life making these dreams come true. Making these fans all around the world happy and to huddle for these Directs and announcements. If he still is making Smash games after Smash For, where he almost died on the work he started, I don't think he's ever leaving.

He even said it himself, "Smash is SPECIAL." He will go as far as to barely have a four days off work from the entire development cycle and miss seeing his children to make Smash Bros. Just because it's "SPECIAL."

 

[Lyndis_]

My god. I've had just about enough of this SJW nonsense.
"Hey guys, Mario is based on a stereotypical depiction of an Italian. You should remove his mustache."

SJW nonsense like... not including blatantly racist charicatures of torch wielding natives where the objective is to beat them with hammers after many native people spoke out about it?

Are you serious right now?

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Hilarious how fools take things so seriously, when its all about havin fun Maggle!

 

[FixedFun]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Welp, it's happening.

I can't help but kinda feel bad for Sakurai, it must mean a little extra work. At least it doesn't seem to be too bad.

It's not like they have a whole team for Smash, not just Sakurai.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

So, what do yall think are the chances of Lara Croft being the Square Enix rep instead of Geno/Sora?

Lara would be cool, but I've heard some people say she can't get in because she uses realistic guns.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

bro might wanna chill with the comments it's getting kinda insensitive

I couldnt care less if its "insensitive" I only care about Super Smash Bros, not worthless people who get offended.

 

[ClaTheBae]

HAULT!

Hilarious how fools take things so seriously, when its all about havin fun Maggle!

ok like jokes are cool and all but you can't say blatantly unfunny and kinda racist things and just be like "oh you're taking it too seriously"

 

[KMDP]

And I'm just sitting here trying to work crunch time into an assignment that's due first thing in the morning

If you're working crunch time for an assignment due tomorrow, what are you even doing here?

 

[MyDude213]

Sure here is some of my research, please note I conducted a lot of this research with Geno in mind. As Geno at the time had the highest chance of making into Smash Ultimate besides Sora. In order to compare fully against Dragon Quest or Lara Croft I would need to do more research as whose odds are better. The reason I did not just state Nier Automota is because 2B is already in Soul Calibur 6. I did not choose a new FF rep as they are already represented by Cloud. And the most logical contender would be Noctis, and he is already in Tekken 7.


DLC Character #1 Square Enix representative Sora from Kingdom Hearts.

The reason I chose Sora over Geno



#1 Sales
According to Sales data on Square Enix game franchises, Kingdom Hearts placed 4th with a total 24 million (8 titles). To compare Super Mario RPG placed 8th with only 7.42 million. Out of the sales Final Fantasy placed 1st with 144 million followed by Dragon Quest in 2nd with 75 million in sales and Tomb Raider in 3rd with 60 million sales. Please note we do not know KH3 sales and this could cause the Kingdom Hearts Series to climb to the number one spot.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_Square-Enix_games


#2 Overall Game Popularity
According to the best Square Enix games published by ranker.com. Kingdom Hearts 2 placed number 1 on the popularity list. Super Mario RPG (the Game Geno comes from) did not place on the list. According to Best and 5 Worst games by Screen Rant Super Mario RPG placed 9th best if you factor out the worst games from the list. While Kingdom Hearts 2 placed 3rd on the list following Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6. It should be noted though that Kingdom hearts placed 6th in What Cultures best RPG’s of all time and Super Mario RPG placed 5th beating it in that list.

https://www.ranker.com/list/square-enix-games-list/reference
https://screenrant.com/square-enix-games-best-worst-ranked/
http://whatculture.com/gaming/10-best-square-enix-rpgs-time?page=11

#3 Overall Character Popularity
According to Watch Mojo Top 10 Square Enix Characters Sora placed 6th and Geno placed 10th. The first 5 characters were Cloud 1st, Chrono 2nd, Maxim 3rd, Slime 4th and Nekuda 5th
https://www.watchmojo.com/suggest/Top+10+Square+Enix+Characters

#4 Nintendo Profitability
Super Mario RPG only has one title, that sold impressively and was highly praised by IGN gaining a 9.5/10, EGM 8.75/10 and Game rankings with a 89%. Kingdom Hearts has 8 titles with several remasters and a 9th title Kingdom Hearts 3 being released soon. Kingdom Hearts 1 alone received a 9/10 from IGN, 8.2/10 from Gamespot and received several awards including best story, best art and excellence in visuals. Compared to Kingdom Hearts, Super Mario RPG has has only one title and would most likely not receive a second due to it competing with the Mario and Luigi RPG’s. Whereas in the case of Sora, several Kingdom Hearts games have been on Nintendo game consoles and could potentially all be released for the Nintendo Switch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_RPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Hearts_(video_game)

#5 Square Enix Patterns
Square Enix when choosing their characters to be in another company's game. They will tend choose characters that represent the company, that are current, and that will help them cross promote. Or they will choose characters with the potential of establishing further relationship with them and another company and the likelihood of new games being released together. Examples of this in past Square history are the following. Cloud appearing in Smash Brothers Wii U and this opening the door for later Nintendo Square partnerships. Noctis Lucis Caellum and Ardyn Izunia appearing in Assassins Creed Origin's helping to cross promote FF15. Noctis cross promoting in the Tekken franchise by appearing in Tekken 7. Behemoth appearing in Monster Hunter World to promote FF14 Heavesward. 2B from Nier Automota appearing in Soul Calibur 6 to help cross promote Nier Automota. Or they will even cross promote within their own games, examples FF characters in KH series and Neku from World Ends with you in KH Dream Drop Distance.
Examples of partnership games born out off guest characters, Octopath Traveler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wah7AGkkzl4&t=22s

https://kotaku.com/there-is-now-some-final-fantasy-xv-in-assassin-s-creed-1821445534

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/03/09/tekken-7-noctis-final-fantasy-stream/

https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/12/1...ster-hunter-world-crossover-armor-weapon-date

https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/27/18032046/soulcalibur-6-nier-automata-2b-guest-character-dlc

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113055-The-World-Ends-With-You-Invades-Kingdom-Hearts

https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/12/17563366/octopath-traveler-review-nintendo-switch-jrpg

Conclusion
Sora has more logical factors in his favor than just Smash Bros popularity. Outside of Super Smash Bros Sora is more popular, more profitable, and has more of a future as a character than Geno. Kingdom Hearts has more of a future as a game series than Super Mario RPG does. It makes more logical sense to add Sora than Geno because Sora overall would be more profitable and popular both in terms of Smash Bros fans and Square Enix fans. Finally when Nintendo makes 3rd party deals. We often see the characters are also seen as partnerships to have more of their games in Nintendo platforms or have had many games on Nintendo platforms. In the case with Super Mario RPG if it had a second game, it would most likely compete with the Mario and Luigi RPG’s as both games share characters and similar elements. Logically I do not see Nintendo wanting to make a second Super Mario RPG game because of it competing with the existing Mario and Luigi RPG games. With Kingdom Hearts on the other hand, Square Enix could import all the Kingdom Hearts games to a collection and release it for the Nintendo Switch. Also Tetsuya Nomura has expressed interest in bringing Kingdom Hearts 3 to the Nintendo Switch. All of these factors and the fact that Disney would allow Sora to be in Smash Bros Ultimate (See HMK interview) lead to him having a higher probability than Geno. Also Disney's own relationship with Nintendo is currently very high, as seen with them joining forces to promote the Nintendo Switch.

Sora aside from a Dragon Quest character has the highest probability in my opinion to make it as the 2nd Square Enix representative.
If I had to choose which character I think would be the second Sqaure representative. I would say it is Sora, despite involving Disney. Sora has the highest potential for sales as he is a more global known character. With KH3 being released around a similar time as Smash Ultimate, and Square's love for cross promoting, his chances are very high. Thank You for taking the time to read my research, and I encourage you to do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Side note, I will be looking further into the matter of Kingdom Hearts vs. Dragon Quest to see which has the highest probability.


(Tetsuya Nomura open to the idea of Kingdom Hearts 3 being on Nintendo Switch)
https://gamerant.com/kingdom-hearts-3-switch-nintendo/


(HMK Interview)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV76QegRezE

(Nintendo & Disney)
https://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-disney-switch-show-2018-6
https://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/d...nnels-nintendo-switch-family-showdown-contest

Actually KH has more than 8 titles KHUX, KH1, KH2. the upcoming KH3, Birth by sleep, 358/2 days, recoded, Chain of Memories/Re-Chain of memories, Dream Drop Distance, and birth by sleep 0.2 which technically is its own mini game but a game non the less. which would actually be ten in total after KH3 comes out, and a total of Nine currently out.

 

[Calane]

Can someone give me an idea of what might differentiate Erdrick from other swordfighters? I'm just so much more interested in Slime and Jade because I'm hoping for some moveset diversity.

Well, Erdrick belongs to the Hero class (in fact, I believe he started it within the series), so I think he'd be representing all of the heroes if he were to be chosen. And, from what I can tell, the hero class's most iconic spells and attacks seem to use a lot of lightning. The spells come in tiers like so:

[Zap] Calls down lightning on all enemies.
[Kazap] Calls down powerful thunderbolts on a group of enemies
[Kazapple] Draws on the party's combined power to zap a single enemy.

Here's a visual of Kazap.

You also have more physical lightning based attacks like:

[Gigaslash] A legendary sword technique for cutting down a group of enemies.

[Gigagash] Supreme technique that destroys a group of enemies.

They also would probably incorporate the Tension mechanic which "surrounds the user in an aura of malice, multiplying their strength for the next attack". In Dragon Quest 8, you could take one (or multiple) turns to "Psyche Up" and build tension. The more times you build tension, the more powerful your next action will be. Tension applies to both physical and magic attacks, but once you perform your next action, all of your tension is returned to normal. This could be very interesting if applied to a Smash character.

The last stage of tension makes your next attack super powerful! And it also makes Eight look like he's going Super Saiyan Rosé.



All that aside, Erdrick could also use a plethora of other attacks and spells like Kaclang (which basically turns you into metal and makes you invulnerable, but also unable to act for a short time), but I'm not going to dive too deep into ideas for a playable DQ Hero (Erdrick). I think there's plenty to work with, and if they focused on the stuff I mentioned, Erdrick would pretty much be a human Pikachu with a sword and shield that can utilize a unique mechanic that allows him to build up Tension in order to power up one attack of his choosing before reverting back to normal. There's really a lot you can do with a DQ Hero, so I don't think uniqueness would be a problem.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Zinith]

Hilarious how fools take things so seriously, when its all about havin fun Maggle!

I didn't mind it the first time, but you were getting kind of excessive with those jokes.

And when I'm telling you you were being excessive, you better listen

 

[Sysreq]

Hilarious how fools take things so seriously, when its all about havin fun Maggle!

"lol jk gaiz! wasnt that funny??? y so srs??"

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'll admit that Nintendo picking the DLC doesn't fill me with confidence, I was considering getting the season pass as a show of faith in Sakurai and his team, but with them not being behind the inclusions I'll hold off on it for a bit. I trust that they'll do their best to make whatever they're given work, and it'll probably turn out alright in the end, but I'm wary of the corporate suits pushing their own interests too hard, and I'm not going to reward that if I can avoid doing so.

It does make you wonder if this is the first time Nintendo have stepped in though, especially now that we know the Smash 4 DLC began development long before the ballot's conclusion. It also makes me a little bit suspicious when it comes to Sakurai's sudden change in opinion on Ridley.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If someone put a gun to my head and told me to honestly guess a DLC character, I think Sora would probably be the safest bet.

To be fair though, people thought that Isaac and Geno were safe bets for base roster, and look where that ended up.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I couldnt care less if its "insensitive" I only care about Super Smash Bros, not worthless people who get offended.

If you don't want to come across the wrong way, you should pay more attention to the sensitivity of your posts. Also getting offended at things makes people worthless? Not a smart thing to say.

 

[A.G.L.]

Actually KH has more than 8 titles KHUX, KH1, KH2. the upcoming KH3, Birth by sleep, 358/2 days, recoded, Chain of Memories/Re-Chain of memories, Dream Drop Distance, and birth by sleep 0.2 which technically is its own mini game but a game non the less. which would actually be ten in total after KH3 comes out, and a total of eight currently out.

Ah sorry I might have miss counted, also I did not include remasters as that is a separate list.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Im from Kalos so Im not one so Im not sure, but I have seen quite a few bad ones on social media.

It stems from our forefathers. Through the use of militia, tactics and having brave men to fight, the colonies won their freedom.

It’s considered an honor to fight for the nations freedom. Every soldier is considered brave and is supported by the majority.

It’s about legacy and all that jazz.

Most of us just want to be proud of those who give their time or their lives to defend the country. Military operations are a bit more complicated than that at times, so not everyone agrees all the time, but pride and honor is the general reasoning.

Then we have the people who take it too far. Those are the people you’re talking about. Most of us have a healthy pride in those who give their time and lives to a cause and we go about our day. Simple as that.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Whatever..

 

[Glaciacott]

The game is out in about a month. Chances are the decision to remove the feather happened long before it was noticed by the public. That's why Nintendo apologizes for it still being in the current build.

So this whole conversation is moot. But hey, because of it there went my respect of multiple people down the drain. This is why we shouldn't touch politics.

On another note, I highly disagree with the martyrization of Sakurai.
The man's a game director doing his best to do a job he loves. That's all. He's not some untouchable being of light that selflessly sacrifices himself for the people.
The reason I say this is because we shouldn't respect him because of doing some beyond-human sacrifice to bring us Smash. We should simply respect him because he's a human being simply doing his job and no one deserves to be harassed by people over inconsequential decisions about the media we consume.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll admit that Nintendo picking the DLC doesn't fill me with confidence, I was considering getting the season pass as a show of faith in Sakurai and his team, but with them not being behind the inclusions I'll hold off on it for a bit. I trust that they'll do their best to make whatever they're given work, and it'll probably turn out alright in the end, but I'm wary of the corporate suits pushing their own interests too hard, and I'm not going to reward that if I can avoid doing so.

It does make you wonder if this is the first time Nintendo have stepped in though, especially now that we know the Smash 4 DLC began development long before the ballot's conclusion. It also makes me a little bit suspicious when it comes to Sakurai's sudden change in opinion on Ridley.

I'm still confident for Ultimate's DLC. So long as I get Ryu Hayabusa, Dante, Erdrick, and Doomguy I'm good.

WHAT DOES THIS **** HAVE TO DO WITH SUPER SMASH BROS?!! TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS YOU IDIOTS!! I DONT CARE ABOUT GOD DAMN INDIANS, I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS!!

Trigger pulled.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Well, Erdrick belongs to the Hero class (in fact, I believe he started it within the series), so I think he'd be representing all of the heroes if he were to be chosen. And, from what I can tell, the hero class's most iconic spells and attacks seem to use a lot of lightning. The spells come in tiers like so:

[Zap] Calls down lightning on all enemies.
[Kazap] Calls down powerful thunderbolts on a group of enemies
[Kazapple] Draws on the party's combined power to zap a single enemy.

Here's a visual of Kazap.
View attachment 176402

You also have more physical lightning based attacks like:

[Gigaslash] A legendary sword technique for cutting down a group of enemies.
View attachment 176400
[Gigagash] Supreme technique that destroys a group of enemies.
View attachment 176401

They also would probably incorporate the Tension mechanic which "surrounds the user in an aura of malice, multiplying their strength for the next attack". In Dragon Quest 8, you could take one (or multiple) turns to "Psyche Up" and build tension. The more times you build tension, the more powerful your next action will be. Tension applies to both physical and magic attacks, but once you perform your next action, all of your tension is returned to normal. This could be very interesting if applied to a Smash character.

The last stage of tension makes your next attack super powerful! And it also makes Eight look like he's going Super Saiyan Rosé.

View attachment 176409

All that aside, Erdrick could also use a plethora of other attacks and spells like Kaclang (which basically turns you into metal and makes you invulnerable, but also unable to act for a short time), but I'm not going to dive too deep into ideas for a playable DQ Hero (Erdrick). I think there's plenty to work with, and if they focused on the stuff I mentioned, Erdrick would pretty much be a human Pikachu with a sword and shield that can utilize a unique mechanic that allows him to build up Tension in order to power up one attack of his choosing before reverting back to normal. There's really a lot you can do with a DQ Hero, so I don't think uniqueness would be a problem.

Sorry for the long post.

You mean like Incineroar's revenge move?

Also I'm sorry but those gifs really don't do Erdrick any favors. Like, the attacks just look boring. If characters need to "dance" for them to get in to Smash Bros, then based on those gifs alone I don't give Erdrick good chances.

Get a life military loser, people like that are nothing but Randy Orton wannabes... Thats why you want to look like him.

Are you okay dude? Did your account get hacked or something?

 

[ClaTheBae]

WHAT DOES THIS **** HAVE TO DO WITH SUPER SMASH BROS?!! TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS YOU IDIOTS!! I DONT CARE ABOUT GOD DAMN INDIANS, I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS!!

You can't make insensitive comments about native americans, and then call people worthless for getting offended over it, and then NOT expect to get called out. You brought this on yourself dude lol.

Anyways someone post piranha plants frame data

 

[PsySmasher]

Lara would be cool, but I've heard some people say she can't get in because she uses realistic guns.

To be fair, Snake and Bayonetta use realistic weapons in their movesets.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I dont care about Indians, I care about Super Smash Bros and wrestling.. And all that is the beautiful world created for Team Flare

We don’t care about you either! I mean, I kinda do, but I’m an

Get a life military loser, people like that are nothing but Randy Orton wannabes... Thats why you want to look like him.

Oh. Well, alright then.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

WHAT DOES THIS **** HAVE TO DO WITH SUPER SMASH BROS?!! TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS YOU IDIOTS!! I DONT CARE ABOUT GOD DAMN INDIANS, I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS!!

You know? You're not making yourself or people like me look any better. While virtue signaling is annoying, what you're doing right now is legitimately offensive.

 

[Sysreq]

WHAT DOES THIS **** HAVE TO DO WITH SUPER SMASH BROS?!! TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS YOU IDIOTS!! I DONT CARE ABOUT GOD DAMN INDIANS, I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS!!

Are you sure it's not your bedtime?

 

[Idon]

The game is out in about a month. Chances are the decision to remove the feather happened long before it was noticed by the public. That's why Nintendo apologizes for it still being in the current build.

So this whole conversation is moot. But hey, because of it there went my respect of multiple people down the drain. This is why we shouldn't touch politics.

On another note, I highly disagree with the martyrization of Sakurai.
The man's a game director doing his best to do a job he loves. That's all. He's not some untouchable being of light that selflessly sacrifices himself for the people.
The reason I say this is because we shouldn't respect him because of doing some beyond-human sacrifice to bring us Smash. We should simply respect him because he's a human being simply doing his job and no one deserves to be harassed by people over inconsequential decisions about the media we consume.

This day has been nothing short of amusing.
I can't wait to see the mania go higher as the days tick down until launch.

 

[Lyndis_]

WHAT DOES THIS **** HAVE TO DO WITH SUPER SMASH BROS?!! TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS YOU IDIOTS!! I DONT CARE ABOUT GOD DAMN INDIANS, I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS!!

Good thing nobody has been talking about people from India or anything irrelevant to Smash Bros. then?

 

[FixedFun]

Another point to consider: In Spirits fights if a Mii costume is available they'll a Mii instead of a fighter, so someone like Rex for example should be represented by a Mii wearing the Rex costume, voice and everything!

 

[ClaTheBae]

To be fair, Snake and Bayonetta use realistic weapons in their movesets.

snake only really has explosives thought, and I'm assuming it's to keep the rating below M

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

You know? You're not making yourself or people like me look any better. While virtue signaling is annoying, what you're doing right now is legitimately offensive.

Im tired.. If would have known people were being so negative with this Game and Watch crap, I probably wouldnt have bothered.

 

[PsySmasher]

WHAT DOES THIS **** HAVE TO DO WITH SUPER SMASH BROS?!! TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS YOU IDIOTS!! I DONT CARE ABOUT GOD DAMN INDIANS, I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT SUPER SMASH BROS!!

You brought this upon yourself. Don't blame us for that.

 

[Deleted member]

This day has been nothing short of amusing.
I can't wait to see the mania go higher as the days tick down until launch.

I've already said my piece on the matter. I'll just sit back and watch people lose their minds.

You brought this upon yourself. Don't blame us for that.

Chances are he's a troll anyways.

 

[N3ON]

Look, I'm not a mod anymore, but none seem to be here right now. I suggest we drop the talk of G&W's changes for the time being, we stop trying to antagonize each other or other people, and we just focus on other aspects of Smash.