Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Geno seems to be the character Sakurai is most aware fans want that isn't in.

Surprised his Spirit wasn't highlighted with a "sorry again boys" from Sakurai.

Because he's in

 

[PLATINUM7]

You realize we could've said this exact same thing about Cloud and Squenix/Sony right lol

No it's not the exact same thing because Cloud isn't a character owned by Sony.

 

[Noipoi]

I have three comedic scenarios for each of the newcomers that were announced last week. For Ken and Pirahna Plant, it deals with how they ended up making the cut. Is anyone interesting in hearing them? I will try to post them tomorrow or on Wednesday.

Do it.

 

[N3ON]

Really? I feel like he would be lower because everyone kinda figured he would be in. Also that one leak that everyone knew was real made the reveal unsurprising.

Oh yeah, Ken wouldn't be high up on that list; everyone figured he would be in, but everyone knew Ryu was in. Ryu was literally in the data and was playable through exploits before he was even revealed. iirc someone was streaming Ryu gameplay the day before his reveal. Doesn't get more expected than that.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

People kinda have to stop this ''Sora/Dragon Quest/Lara Croft/Etc makes them (more) money."

Geno would make the money as well.

I don't think Square as a company really cares about what character as long as said character is bringing them in cash.

And considering it's Smash Brothers and there are lot of people who will buy whatever Sakurai throws at them? He could add Macha from Chrono Cross and there's still gonna be people that buy her because their roster completionists.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

No it's not the exact same thing because Cloud isn't a character owned by Sony.

True, but they did publish the original release of the game in America

Because he's in

Yup, it's him

 

[KarneraMythos]

Exactly we cannot rule people out because they are usually seen as belonging to only that system. We used to do think the same with Cloud, time will tell.

Except that Cloud had made appearances on Nintendo before, however small. Want a real trend-smasher? Literally Master Chief himself as some have been discussing. No presence or foot prints to date, not even cameos. No Halo history in Nintendo whatsoever either. You can make a strong case for Cloud, but he isn't this magic "rule-breaker" like so many think he is (and yes, his cameos should count in his favor).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Ratchet & Clank, probably. Out of the Playstation 2 era mascots, the duo has been in every mainline Playstation platform aside from the original. They also have a ton of different weapons you an implement for their move set, not unlike Mega Man. I'm mostly familiar with the original quadrology, so I'd pack him with equipment like the SUCC cannon (as a followup to a grab), the Blitz Gun (as his side smash), the Plasma Whip (as his down smash), and the Hunter Mine Launcher (down b) just to name a few things across the first four PS2 games.

The RYNO is a FS candidate, definitely, which fits, since the ammo for it is limited.

Exactly we cannot rule people out because they are usually seen as belonging to only that system. We used to do think the same with Cloud, time will tell.

Besides, fan rules get broken all the time.

 

[A.G.L.]

Here's the thing with Cloud;

Can we really be sure he was added to promote his Switch stuff? It came 3 years later.

Interesting tidbit.

I think yes, in order to be a successful company you have to think several moves ahead. Its like a game of chess and the opponents are other companies. In order to beat them you have to make moves that may take years to make profit from. However when the profit does come it will help you beat the competition. They have to think of short term income vs long term income and then weigh which is more profitable. Im almost positive when they included Cloud in Smash Wii U. They were already planning a way to have his game and other FF games make it to Nintendo consoles.

 

[N3ON]

Cloud was probably just added because he's a generally popular character that would sell well and hopefully bring in a new audience.

 

[Luigi The President]

I think yes, in order to be a successful company you have to think several moves ahead. Its like a game of chess and the opponents are other companies. In order to beat them you have to make moves that may take years to make profit from. However when the profit does come it will help you beat the competition. They have to think of short term income vs long term income and then weigh which is more profitable. Im almost positive when they included Cloud in Smash Wii U. They were already planning a way to have his game and other FF games make it to Nintendo consoles.

But 3 years for simple remasters? I'm really not sure the concept was even bubbling around for FF7 Switch at that point.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Sega already has Sonic and Bayonetta... They're fine. If anyone is underrepresented, it's Bandai Namco. They helped develop the game, yet they only have one character in Smash...

Nah man, Square is underrepresented

As for Sega they feel a bit under represented compared to the other 3rd party characters that were already present in the game. Eggman being a bowser Jr echo, or Shadow being upgraded is what Im predicting

Sega has an extremely good amount of content outside of music (they ain’t Capcom, but Sega isn’t lacking)...though I want more from them than we have

 

[FixedFun]

My main is and apparently...

With all respects, why people hate harmless stereotypes so much (when they're not really racist)? If they're not a big deal, why do you even care?
No Mexican is offended by Speedy Gonzales, no Italian is offended by Mario, why can't America in general relax and take small things like that in passive way, a frame of animation don't hurt anyone.
That's just my opinion, and I'm glad at least that Native Americans have a voice when in other countries is all the opposite.

Oof, I think I'm going to regret making this comment for some reason, I don't know why but I will.

 

[Jakenimbus]

Geno seems to be the character Sakurai is most aware fans want that isn't in.

Surprised his Spirit wasn't highlighted with a "sorry again boys" from Sakurai.

What about cough cough Waluigi? I guarantee way more people want him in the game than Geno and Sakuri is definetly aware of him. Also I don’t think any teens or young kids are craving geno. In fact, nobody really knows who Geno is that is under the age of 18. I hate to break it to you but this game is geared more towards an age group that won’t appreciate him in the game. I hate to be the bringer of bad news but I don’t think Geno is gonna get in.

 

[Luigi The President]

My main is and apparently...

With all respects, why people hate stereotypes so much? If they're not a big deal, why do you even care?
No Mexican is offended by Speedy Gonzales, no Italian is offended by Mario, why can't America in general relax and take small things like that in passive way, a frame of animation don't hurt anyone.
That's just my opinion, and I'm glad at least that Native Americans have a voice when in other countries is all the opposite.

Oof, I think I'm going to regret making this comment for some reason, I don't know why but I will.

"Why do people hate stereotypes so much"
Please think about what you just said and edit this post to say "You know what let's not have this argument in this thread" so we never talk about it again ****ing please

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And don't y'all fools go telling me you wouldn't buy a mother who fought by shaking her booty at enemies, hitting them with frying pans, and folding them like laundry.

Don't y'all even front.

 

[Luigi The President]

What about cough cough Waluigi? I guarantee way more people want him in the game than Geno and Sakuri is definetly aware of him. Also I don’t think any teens or young kids are craving geno. In fact, nobody really knows who Geno is that is under the age of 18. I hate to break it to you but this game is geared more towards an age group that won’t appreciate him in the game. I hate to be the bringer of bad news but I don’t think Geno is gonna get in.

Why tf are you guaranteeing more people want Waluigi in???
No teens or young kids were craving Ridley, K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Ken, and now even Piranha Plant. How is this game aged towards the young/teen age group when the only modern choices would be the Inklings and Isabelle.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

I hope Sakurai pulls some strings and replaces the main Ultimate instrumental theme with Baby Shark.

 

[AugustusB]

That is a really interesting point. I'd imagine all of the previous Mii Costumes from Smash 4 are in. So if Sakurai was going on a massacre to deconfirm fighters....Why did he highlight Mii Sword Fighter in a Lip costume instead of, oh ya know...Geno?

That would have been the perfect time to do it and kill the chance for discussion. Yet, we haven't seen the costume yet and now there is an Icon for online purposes. A POSSIBLE Spirit of Geno is there, but I wont buy it until I see someone equip his Spirit to Mii Gunner or whoever.

Something is certainly up. Again just speculation on my part.

 

[KMDP]

No Mexican is offended by Speedy Gonzales, no Italian is offended by Mario, why can't America in general relax and take small things like that in passive way, a frame of animation don't hurt anyone.

Apparently, Mexicans aren't just not offended by Speedy Gonzales, they love Speedy Gonzales.

 

[A.G.L.]

But 3 years for simple remasters? I'm really not sure the concept was even bubbling around for FF7 Switch at that point.

Its hard to say, due to that its Square and they find odd ways to make profit. Example of this was the out of nowhere Assasins festival in FF15. It wasnt until later that we saw why that happened. In Assasins Creed Origins you could find Ardyn and get Noctis's engine blade.
However we have to keep in mind that due to Cloud being in, they built a budding friendship with Nintendo. This would help them in creating Octopath Traveler with Nintendo. It could be that they were trying to find a way to build a stronger relationship with Nintendo. Its interesting though that they chose Cloud. Popularity wise it makes sense, however they could have chosen Geno since that was their last game they worked together on. Instead they went with their mascot, the one that would represent their company.

 

[FreeFox]

Why tf are you guaranteeing more people want Waluigi in???
No teens or young kids were craving Ridley, K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Ken, and now even Piranha Plant. How is this game aged towards the young/teen age group when the only modern choices would be the Inklings and Isabelle.

Incineroar arrived for hardcore audiences?

Also, most young people know who Ken and Piranha Plant are.

 

[Koopaul]

My main is and apparently...

With all respects, why people hate stereotypes so much? If they're not a big deal, why do you even care?
No Mexican is offended by Speedy Gonzales, no Italian is offended by Mario, why can't America in general relax and take small things like that in passive way, a frame of animation don't hurt anyone.
That's just my opinion, and I'm glad at least that Native Americans have a voice when in other countries is all the opposite.

Oof, I think I'm going to regret making this comment for some reason, I don't know why but I will.

Uh it really depends on the context. A stereotype can be funny like in Punch-Out/Mario or they can be highly disrespectful like in... well do I need to put in examples? You should know how horrible they can be.

Anyway it's one small animation so I doubt there will be much trouble.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Guys I realized something...


The purple and yellow chairs in that one direct weren't for Skull Kid...

They were for Piranha Plant...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

And don't y'all fools go telling me you wouldn't buy a mother who fought by shaking her booty at enemies, hitting them with frying pans, and folding them like laundry.

Don't y'all even front.

Chrono Cross' supporting cast was too good for that game.

As far as PSX-era RPG characters go, I wouldn't mind seeing Justin from Grandia someday, seeing as that and its sequel are getting remasters soon.

Guys I realized something...


The purple and yellow chairs in that one direct weren't for Skull Kid...

They were for Piranha Plant...

Well, this is definitely a "Daroach seen from above!" moment.

https://www.deviantart.com/the9lord/art/Daroach-s-Reveal-in-a-Nutshell-746431119

 

[FreeFox]

Apparently, Mexicans aren't just not offended by Speedy Gonzales, they love Speedy Gonzales.

As a mexican, I can confirm it is the case.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Apparently, Mexicans aren't just not offended by Speedy Gonzales, they love Speedy Gonzales.

Everyone loves Speedy Gonzales

 

[PLATINUM7]

True, but they did publish the original release of the game in America

Yup, it's him

Publishing one version of the game in select regions doesn't seem to account to much tbh.

My main is and apparently...

With all respects, why people hate stereotypes so much? If they're not a big deal, why do you even care?
No Mexican is offended by Speedy Gonzales, no Italian is offended by Mario, why can't America in general relax and take small things like that in passive way, a frame of animation don't hurt anyone.
That's just my opinion, and I'm glad at least that Native Americans have a voice when in other countries is all the opposite.

Oof, I think I'm going to regret making this comment for some reason, I don't know why but I will.

It's the context of which the portrayal comes from. Fire Attack involves you controlling a cowboy defending a fort from natives depicted as savages. Given the attrocities comitted in the period the game takes place it's easy to see why people want changes. Game&Watch Gallery 4 changed the native Americans to generic bandits. Smash should probably do the same.

There probably wouldn't be such concern if the roles were reversed in Fire Attack (since you do basically control a foreign invader fending off people characterised as being different) or there was a different context (a native American in a non-racist setting).

I don't think any offense was intentional. Saw people discussing this before and a lot of the non-Americans (including me) had to ask why it was racist, given only an image of Mr. Game&Watch with a feather on his head. Seeing the context helped a lot in explaining things.

 

[FixedFun]

Uh it really depends on the context. A stereotype can be funny like in Punch-Out/Mario or they can be highly disrespectful like in... well do I need to put in examples? You should know how horrible they can be.

Anyway it's one small animation so I doubt there will be much trouble.

I meant harmless stereotypes, I know some old cartoons are really racist, specially the Tom and Jerry one (I hate those!)
But a small animation? Not at all, that's harmless, really harmless.

 

[Nekoo]

>people still confuse real life people and "imagery right" with "Fictional Property right"

Favorite dish of mine.

Geno Being a Mii costume is a deal.
Geno being a spirit is another one.
Geno becoming a fighter is another deal to sign.

It's not "Yo I buy Geno's right I can do whatever the **** I want now"

Don't hurt yourself more. Geno have a chance as DLC. But using those weird leap of faulty logic isn't the way to go and never worked for smash.

 

[AugustusB]

Its hard to say, due to that its Square and they find ways to make profit in odd ways. However we have to keep in mind that due to Cloud being in, they built a budding friendship with Nintendo. This would help them in creating Octopath Traveler with Nintendo. It could be that they were trying to find a way to build a stronger relationship with Nintendo. Its interesting though that they chose Cloud. Popularity wise it makes sense, however they could have chosen Geno since that was their last game they worked together on. Instead they went with their mascot, the one that would represent their company.

Seriously, can we keep that as a point. We have Octopath Traveler on the Switch made by Square! Also, Sakurai asked for Cloud, as that was his intention.

I feel like Cloud was a good stepping stone for Nintendo and Square to patch things up. Or also perhaps "Oh Cloud sold really well for Sm4sh? Hmmmmm" says the Square people.

All in all, they are certainly trying to patch things up I feel and what better way than...ya know...I wont say it...

 

[Pazzo.]

It's the context of which the portrayal comes from. Fire Attack involves you controlling a cowboy defending a fort from natives depicted as savages. Given the attrocities comitted in the period the game takes place it's easy to see why people want changes. Game&Watch Gallery 4 changed the native Americans to generic bandits. Smash should probably do the same.

There probably wouldn't be such concern if the roles were reversed in Fire Attack (since you do basically control a foreign invader fending off people characterised as being different) or there was a different context (a native American in a non-racist setting).

I don't think any offense was intentional. Saw people discussing this before and a lot of the non-Americans (including me) had to ask why it was racist, given only an image of Mr. Game&Watch with a feather on his head. Seeing the context helped a lot in explaining things.

I'm Native American and I'm fine with it. My ancestors actually burnt down stuff believe it or not.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

>people still confuse real life people and "imagery right" with "Fictional Property right"

Favorite dish of mine.

Geno Being a Mii costume is a deal.
Geno being a spirit is another one.
Geno becoming a fighter is another deal to sign.

It's not "Yo I buy Geno's right I can do whatever the **** I want now"

Don't hurt yourself more. Geno have a chance as DLC. But using those weird leap of faulty logic isn't the way to go and never worked for smash.

But you're also confused.

To have what we have now? Sakurai has fictional property right for Geno in Smash Brothers.

Sorry. You can't shoot this down with this post, because that's not how it works. To use any sort of image of a fictional character that doesn't belong to you in your work you have to have been granted some type of property right by their owner.

Guess what?!

I mean come on, dude, you should know this. This is the very reason people on the internet get sued and copyright infringed all the damn time.

 

[Potato_]

thanks so much @BestBuy !! Can't wait for Dec 7th (also Chrom's ftilt is rly stupid @imsnow_yipee ) pic.twitter.com/EMHnnBtBId

— Len (@Len_Ult) November 5, 2018

Anyone post this today?

Wait he said this was in Vancouver?

COULD MY COUNTRY ACTUALLY BE GETTING FULL SMASH DEMOS?

>people still confuse real life people and "imagery right" with "Fictional Property right"

Favorite dish of mine.

Geno Being a Mii costume is a deal.
Geno being a spirit is another one.
Geno becoming a fighter is another deal to sign.

It's not "Yo I buy Geno's right I can do whatever the **** I want now"

Don't hurt yourself more. Geno have a chance as DLC. But using those weird leap of faulty logic isn't the way to go and never worked for smash.

Of course, and I agree. I'm saying that the fact that Geno's image is even in the game at all means talks had to have happened, and that the fact that they barely touched on Geno at all despite him being a third party with some fan appeal is strange.

Still think it's pretty unlikely though.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I meant harmless stereotypes, I know some old cartoons are really racist, specially the Tom and Jerry one (I hate those!)
But a small animation? Not at all, that's harmless, really harmless.

Not with the context it carries. Some people are upset it about it.

Nintendo's had to remove animations before for causing offense.

 

[A.G.L.]

Seriously, can we keep that as a point. We have Octopath Traveler on the Switch made by Square! Also, Sakurai asked for Cloud, as that was his intention.

I feel like Cloud was a good stepping stone for Nintendo and Square to patch things up. Or also perhaps "Oh Cloud sold really well for Sm4sh? Hmmmmm" says the Square people.

All in all, they are certainly trying to patch things up I feel and what better way than...ya know...I wont say it...

Haha they are trying to patch things up right now. However Octopath Traveler is like the new Super Mario RPG, its the sign of the two company's new friendship. I don't know if they'll want to add a character that helped them split in the first place, it would be an incredible act of goodwill if it did happen. However in the spirit of new beginning's it makes more sense for them to add an Octopath character instead, as that is the future.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Apparently, Mexicans aren't just not offended by Speedy Gonzales, they love Speedy Gonzales.

who can blame them, Speedy is bad ass

 

[Pazzo.]

Not with the context it carries. Some people are upset it about it.

Nintendo's had to remove animations before for causing offense.

What about the people who enjoy seeing their ignored ethnicity represented?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Not with the context it carries. Some people are upset it about it.

Nintendo's had to remove animations before for causing offense.

ffriendly reminder that not even some of the native american users here care or are offended my Game and Watches indian burning move and the ones that are offended arent even that race

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'm Native American and I'm fine with it. My ancestors actually burnt down stuff believe it or not.

And there's also native Ameircans that aren't.

Whenever people say, "i'm X and okay with it" it doesn't maigcally make it okay for everyone.

But whatever. I feel it's a topic that could be discussed to death and would be better off talked somewhere else than derail this thread like so many other touchy subjects.