Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

So...which stages do you folks want to try out first? I might go with Peach's Castle 64, for old time's sake.

1v1
no items
fox only
final destination

The only correct way to break in a Smash game.

 

[A.G.L.]

While this TECHNICALLY true.

This is assumptive.

And it's also very unlikely.

''Hey guys I can make you money."

''BUT WE ONLY WANT THE MONEY IF IT'S A TINY LITTLE PICTURE THAT'S USELESS TO EVERYONE" said no sane company ever.

Sound logic would tell any company ''We get more money if we sell this character as a character" instead of ''We sell this character as a tiny little useless" icon.

Square is 4 years shy of being 50 years old as a company. They're not stupid. And what people are suggesting from them? It's kind of stupidity.

They're stingy. Every company is. Yes, even Nintendo to a degree, but not stupid.

This logic makes sense to a degree. We know Sakurai wants Geno, we know fans want Geno. So perhaps in discussions Sakurai bartered for Geno as a playable character, but Square did not budge. Perhaps they said we will allow you to use Geno to this extent, but we want this character pushed instead.

This is a highly possible scenario that we can not rule out. Its possible Geno was allowed in Smash, but only to an extent. Because Square's main objective was to make more money by using another character that they could cross promote. Everything is speculation at this point, but we do know Square's business patterns. And they always choose characters that represent the company and ones that they can make lots of profit off of.

 

[SAMation]

Why do people assume Geno won’t be dlc because he won’t sell well? None of us know how sakurai thinks, if he wants a character as dlc he’ll do it. For the general audience would people be stoked if you told them you pay to play as a piranha plant before hand? I’m sure not too many would care because you don’t picture the look and moveset in your head, it wasn’t until he showed us how piranha Plant plays that everyone’s like “oh yeah that looks fun I’ll buy it”

That’s all you need, if the character looks fun and interesting it’ll sell regardless whether or not they’re relative.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm picking up some anti Geno bias in this thread. Just a bit.

I've noticed a lot of the Geno bias is coming from people riding Spawnwave's Sora rumors and already accepted them as almost truths.

And honestly I'm okay with Sora and understand he's a huge deal, but like I also understand he's a very complex thing to negotiate, far more than the little puppet action figure from a one off game ever could. They're both in a really odd and weird place negotiations wise however.

But there's no reason to pit them against one another.

 

[Slavic]

So...which stages do you folks want to try out first? I might go with Peach's Castle 64, for old time's sake.

Starry skies.

Gorgeous water.

Brilliant colors.

You ever need to find me I'll be at Eryth Sea Fountain of Dreams

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I don't think we should complain about the possibility of Geno occupying one of the five DLC slots. If Sakurai feels that Geno is more worthy of being included over other Square Enix characters, that's his choice, and we should respect him for it.

 

[Jetsurge]

This logic makes sense to a degree. We know Sakurai wants Geno, we know fans want Geno. So perhaps in discussions Sakurai bartered for Geno as a playable character, but Square did not budge. Perhaps they said we will allow you to use Geno to this extent, but we want this character pushed instead. This is a highly possible scenario that we can not rule out. Its possible Geno was allowed in Smash, but only to an extent. Because Square's main objective was to make more money by using another character that they could cross promote. Everything is speculation at this point, but we do know Square's business patterns. And they always choose characters that represent the company and ones that they can make lots of profit off of.

It's probably because the cost isn't worth it for such a small character. Most 3rd party series are really iconic and a big pull for Smash and Geno just isn't that.

 

[DraginHikari]

I'm picking up some anti Geno bias in this thread. Just a bit.

I've always been confused by Geno popularity frankly. I love Super Mario RPG well enough but I've never understood the appeal of Geno all that much, he was kind of just a walking plot device in the game he was featured in. I'm well aware this is entirely a subjective thing on my part lol.

 

[Noipoi]

I've noticed a lot of the Geno bias is coming from people riding Spawnwave's Sora rumors and already accepted them as almost truths.

And honestly I'm okay with Sora and understand he's a huge deal, but like I also understand he's a very complex thing to negotiate, far more than the little puppet action figure from a one off game ever could. They're both in a really odd and weird place negotiations wise however.

But there's no reason to pit them against one another.

Exactly. I prefer Geno, but i've got no problem with Sora. I dunno why they have to fight to the death.

 

[Zinith]

So...which stages do you folks want to try out first? I might go with Peach's Castle 64, for old time's sake.

Probably Magicant

 

[Sigran101]

I've noticed a lot of the Geno bias is coming from people riding Spawnwave's Sora rumors and already accepted them as almost truths.

And honestly I'm okay with Sora and understand he's a huge deal, but like I also understand he's a very complex thing to negotiate, far more than the little puppet action figure from a one off game ever could. They're both in a really odd and weird place negotiations wise however.

But there's no reason to pit them against one another.

This. I actually think there's a good chance of both making it in. I don't see why it's one or the other.

 

[Noipoi]

Probably Magicant

Not Super Happy Tree

I...I don't even know who you are anymore...

 

[lightdrago]

...I don’t really know what’s going on.

So imma just post a Geno gif of him laughing happily.

 

[Idon]

I've always been confused by Geno popularity frankly. I love Super Mario RPG well enough but I've never understood the appeal of Geno all that much, he was kind of just a walking plot device in the game he was featured in. I'm well aware this is entirely a subjective thing on my part lol.

Yeah, I have to wonder how a character gained such the massive amount of popularity it did.
There are dozens of RPGs and a large number of which sold far better than SMRPG even during its release.
How did Geno gain the notoriety he did?
It's a curious case of a fandom made entirely on fan word of mouth than anything else.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Trust me, I've been trying to apply Shrek to Smash, but Sakurai NEVER responds to my tweets.

Try using an anime poem to get Shrek in

So...which stages do you folks want to try out first? I might go with Peach's Castle 64, for old time's sake.

Battlefield and having the original 8 duke it out

I'm picking up some anti Geno bias in this thread. Just a bit.

**** Geno
All Hail

 

[A.G.L.]

It's probably because the cost isn't worth it for such a small character. Most 3rd party series are really iconic and a big pull for Smash and Geno just isn't that.

Agree and if you really look at it, Geno does not represent Square. He would be added to the Mario roster. That would be out of Square's normal wanting their characters to represent them in other games.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Same. Though I could think of worse inclusions.

I'm way ahead of you there, pal.

 

[Zinith]

Not Super Happy Tree

I...I don't even know who you are anymore...

It's no secret that my favorite stage is a non-Yoshi one. You gotta pay attention

 

[FreeFox]

While this TECHNICALLY true.

This is assumptive.

And it's also very unlikely.

''Hey guys I can make you money."

''BUT WE ONLY WANT THE MONEY IF IT'S A TINY LITTLE PICTURE THAT'S USELESS TO EVERYONE" said no sane company ever.

Sound logic would tell any company ''We get more money if we sell this character as a character" instead of ''We sell this character as a tiny little useless" icon.

Square is 4 years shy of being 50 years old as a company. They're not stupid. And what people are suggesting from them? It's kind of stupidity.

They're stingy. Every company is. Yes, even Nintendo to a degree, but not stupid.

No, it isnt. Companies dont go "LOL, HAVE MY CHARACTER. MAKE ME LOTS OF MONEY!" They care about what is done with their carácter since their property can be sullen if they just give free reign to the other company to do whatever they want.

That is why pikachu doesnt transform into super saiyan while speaking like a human being or why Sonic doesnt have different fur colors for smash. Giving someone the chance to use a character doesnt mean that there arent restrictions in place. When one makes a deal, there are stipulations put in place about what it is being done with character and what are the limits of such a deal.

Companies are usually careful about how much freedom they give. And if stuff like Zelda and Mario CD-i can prove, its that giving someone complete freedom over your IPs is a terrible idea.

 

[Noipoi]

I've always been confused by Geno popularity frankly. I love Super Mario RPG well enough but I've never understood the appeal of Geno all that much, he was kind of just a walking plot device in the game he was featured in. I'm well aware this is entirely a subjective thing on my part lol.

I can't speak for everyone, and I barely know how he got big in the first place, but he's just a really cool character with tons of potential.

 

[AugustusB]

I've noticed a lot of the Geno bias is coming from people riding Spawnwave's Sora rumors and already accepted them as almost truths.

And honestly I'm okay with Sora and understand he's a huge deal, but like I also understand he's a very complex thing to negotiate, far more than the little puppet action figure from a one off game ever could. They're both in a really odd and weird place negotiations wise however.

But there's no reason to pit them against one another.

Exactly! Lets not pit these two together. Why not both!?

But with Spawnwave's hints...How many sources does the guy have? Has he ONLY heard Sora and no other Square Character? How is he confident its Sora?

Verge has heard several Square names being tossed around and yet Spawnwave has that tweet hinting Sora.

"Is the Square Rep Sora?"
"Oh, would people like that?"
​

That wording is subjective to me, unless there is more I am missing...if I am please let me know.

 

[KMDP]

Well at least as sure as I can be from people saying they are native American and are offended as I can be of people saying they are Native American and aren't offended.

I don't usually step in on stuff like this because it's usually just people being offended on behalf of others at stuff like Sony having someone play culturally contextual music at E3. But I never saw Japanese people say they were angry about that.

I'm going to just point you here:

Now if Game and Watch suffered from alcoholism when using his Side Smash there might be a case for harmful stereotypes. As it stands, I just hope it stays in by this point. I'd be pretty bummed out if the only Indian reference in the entire game gets removed. We already missed out on Bravely Second.

Well, maybe T. Hawk can be a spirit or something.

Thanks, Pazzo.

You're just assuming there are Native Americans who are offended by the (Mr) Game & Watch thing.

I don't think I'd be wholly wrong in saying a lot of people raising a stink over this aren't actually Native American, but are doing so "because they won't speak up for themselves", which is incredibly condescending.

 

[Pazzo.]

I just want to return to my favorite stage,

 

[Idon]

Why not both!?

Because I doubt that'll happen.

Plus it's amusing to see two character factions fight, than hold out a vain hope of both getting in.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm way ahead of you there, pal.
View attachment 176073

I can somewhat understand the rest (even Waddle Dee without the bandana), but I wouldn't even wish Pink Gold Peach on my worst enemies, such a waste of space.

 

[Sigran101]

No, it isnt. Companies dont go "LOL, HAVE MY CHARACTER. MAKE ME LOTS OF MONEY!" They care about what is done with their carácter since their property can be sullen if they just give free reign to the other company to do whatever they want.

That is why pikachu doesnt transform into super saiyan while speaking like a human being or why Sonic doesnt have different fur colors for smash. Giving someone the chance to use a character doesnt mean that there arent restrictions in place. When one makes a deal, there are stipulations put in place about what it is being done with character and what are the limits of such a deal.

Companies are usually careful about how much freedom they give. And if stuff like Zelda and Mario CD-i can prove, its that giving someone complete freedom over your IPs is a terrible idea.

That's exactly why they wouldn't say no to Geno. They don't care about him at all. They're never going to use him. It's literally free money for square.

 

[DraginHikari]

Yeah, I have to wonder how a character gained such the massive amount of popularity it did.

I can't speak for everyone, and I barely know how he got big in the first place, but he's just a really cool character with tons of potential.

I mostly just assume it has to do with the impact of Super Mario RPG had and really of the two original characters that were playable in the game, I would agree Geno would make more sense as a concept. He's kind of a nostalgia property at this point as his characterization in the game was not something such devotion could occur on its own from my view. He only had a handful of lines in the whole game that weren't plot related.

 

[Pazzo.]

I'm going to just point you here:

Thanks, Pazzo.

You're just assuming there are Native Americans who are offended by the (Mr) Game & Watch thing.

I don't think I'd be wholly wrong in saying a lot of people raising a stink over this aren't actually Native American, but are doing so "because they won't speak up for themselves", which is incredibly condescending.

I'd even be willing to post (detail removed) proof of my status as a Native American if I was called out.

 

[Deleted member]

I've always been confused by Geno popularity frankly. I love Super Mario RPG well enough but I've never understood the appeal of Geno all that much, he was kind of just a walking plot device in the game he was featured in. I'm well aware this is entirely a subjective thing on my part lol.

He's kind of in a weird spot where he's in the same position as a lot of Mario partners, but he's just so goddamn cool. Sakurai has also admitted to wanting to add Geno himself since at least 4, but for one reason or another it hasn't happened.

 

[Robertman2]

So what? Square doesn't decide the smash bros. roster. They can't force Sakurai to put in a character they're pushing. They can only say yes or no to the character he asks for.

And there's no chance they'll say yes. Because they don't get much out of it.

Yeah, I have to wonder how a character gained such the massive amount of popularity it did.
There are dozens of RPGs and a large number of which sold far better than SMRPG.
How did Geno gain the notoriety he did?
It's a curious case of a fandom made entirely on fan word of mouth than anything else.

Because some people saw him use a gun and act stoic as a kid and went "woah, this guy is so cool!"

It's also worth mentioning no one cares about him outside of the Smash community

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'm going to just point you here:

Thanks, Pazzo.

You're just assuming there are Native Americans who are offended by the (Mr) Game & Watch thing.

I don't think I'd be wholly wrong in saying a lot of people raising a stink over this aren't actually Native American, but are doing so "because they won't speak up for themselves", which is incredibly condescending.

So I am to assume that the people I have seen saying they are Native American and don't like it are actually lying about their heritage?

Given the internet I wouldn't be surprised but I like to at least have some faith in people.

 

[FixedFun]

To stay on the main topic:
Smash has great team of people, never ever say "but how they can make Red from Angry Birds work" ANY CHARACTER works if you have imagination and talent, the great Sakurai and his whole team (https://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_Super_Smash_Bros._for_Wii_U_staff to see an example) I trust them any character. So it's not about the technical stuff, it is about the fun factor, a thing that the team has perfectioned since the first game.
For once I'm gonna stand up and clap to everyone who helped to make Smash Ultimate.
(For real, Sakurai developed Kirby's Adventure with a trackball, do I need to say more?)

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Try using an anime poem to get Shrek in

You know, I actually have memorized the entirety of "shrek is love, shrek is life". I used to repeat it to bother my now-ex gf.

I honestly cannot wait for the most important change to the stage system in Ultimate: now we can have tournaments where Battlefield looks pretty.
That is actually a big deal. I have always hated how the best-looking stages never got shown on screen (Distant Planet, Rainbow Road, etc.) during tournaments.

 

[Luigi The President]

I've noticed a lot of the Geno bias is coming from people riding Spawnwave's Sora rumors and already accepted them as almost truths.

And honestly I'm okay with Sora and understand he's a huge deal, but like I also understand he's a very complex thing to negotiate, far more than the little puppet action figure from a one off game ever could. They're both in a really odd and weird place negotiations wise however.

But there's no reason to pit them against one another.

Has Spawn come out and said "oh it's Sora" or what do we mean by his Sora rumors

 

[Noipoi]

And there's no chance they'll say yes. Because they don't get much out of it.

Because some people saw him use a gun and act stoic as a kid and went "woah, this guy is so cool!"

It's also worth mentioning no one cares about him outside of the Smash community

Did Geno piss in your cereal? Why do you seem so staunchly anti-Geno?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Exactly! Lets not pit these two together. Why not both!?

But with Spawnwave's hints...How many sources does the guy have? Has he ONLY heard Sora and no other Square Character? How is he confident its Sora?

Verge has heard several Square names being tossed around and yet Spawnwave has that tweet hinting Sora.

"Is the Square Rep Sora?"
"Oh, would people like that?"
​

That wording is subjective to me, unless there is more I am missing...if I am please let me know.

If it's actually Agnes, I would laugh about it, since a fake leak had her drawn poorly. At this time, even the leakers have no idea what SE's got in store.

Anyway, gonna sleep, til next time.

 

[DraginHikari]

He's kind of in a weird spot where he's in the same position as a lot of Mario partners, but he's just so goddamn cool. Sakurai has also admitted to wanting to add Geno himself since at least 4, but for one reason or another it hasn't happened.

Which is kind of funny because he's basically Pinocchio with built in gun arms.

 

[Pazzo.]

I wholeheartedly welcome gun Pinocchio into Smash.

 

[Robertman2]

Did Geno piss in your cereal? Why do you seem so staunchly anti-Geno?

Because hearing Geno jerked off to no one for 13 or whatever years is extremely annoying. It's tiring to hear people constantly demand a side character from a forgotten JRPG, especially for so long.

Doesn't help Geno is dull as all hell in the game itself.

 

[AugustusB]

I mostly just assume it has to do with the impact of Super Mario RPG had and really of the two original characters that were playable in the game, I would agree Geno would make more sense as a concept. He's kind of a nostalgia property at this point as his characterization in the game was not something such devotion could occur on its own from my view. He only had a handful of lines in the whole game that weren't plot related.

The thing that makes him so up there in terms of importance (to me at least) is due to being in a Mario game. Not just any Mario game, but the FIRST RPG style for the series. We saw life breathed into the game that gave the Mario Characters some personality and flavor.

This was also fun game and holds up nicely (Not great, but ya know).