Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Amiibo Doctor]

who can blame them, Speedy is bad ***

I love Speedy Gonzalez. Him and Bugs and probably Fat Tony from the Simpsons are my favorite cartoon characters.
(I don't count Shrek as a cartoon. Shrek is art.)

 

[A.G.L.]

who can blame them, Speedy is bad ***

As a person from Mexican heritage, I agree with this post. Most Mexican's really do love Speedy Gonzalez. And don't even get me started on how most love Nacho Libre.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean honestly.

Copyright laws aren't that hard to understand.

Not even using Geno.

Let's look at Blaze the Cat.

Sakurai obviously has the copyright for Sonic the Hedgehog to be a playable character.

But I'm sure that Blaze is her own seperate copyright that is protected.

Sakurai very well had to speak to Sega I'm sure about which other Sonic characters he'd be able to include and how and to include them in that way they had to give him permission to use their copyright material.

This goes for Geno without saying.

 

[Nekoo]

But you're also confused.

To have what we have now? Sakurai has fictional property right for Geno in Smash Brothers.

Sorry. You can't shoot this down with this post, because that's not how it works. To use any sort of image of a fictional character that doesn't belong to you in your work you have to have been granted some type of property right by their owner.

Guess what?!

I mean come on, dude, you should know this. This is the very reason people on the internet get sued and copyright infringed all the damn time.

That's not how it works again.

You get the right to make a SMRPG T-shirt with Only Geno.
You can't make one with Mallow.
You can't make Geno Shoes.

You need another Deal to make said Geno shoes even if you have the right to use it for a T-shirt.

It's a comparison to explain you how it works.
And for the Copyright infringement stuff it's because said Company didn't sold the right for SAID USE of their brand.

t. My own sister who work as a lawyer and had to sue knock-off brand and creepy YouTube Video on the behalf of Disney France

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Not with the context it carries. Some people are upset it about it.

Nintendo's had to remove animations before for causing offense.

Ah yes, reminds me of an incident regarding Bowser's victory pose in SMRPG, because it seemed obscene to other cultures.

 

[N3ON]

Honestly I think the G&W thing is on par with Punch-Out in terms of cultural insensitivity (aka not to a troublesome degree) - because it seems more just... "othering" over actually racist, but anything that causes this much ire probably will get changed. I just hope they change it to a bandit instead of normal G&W, because that's just more interesting.

 

[A.G.L.]

That's not how it works again.

You get the right to make a SMRPG T-shirt with Only Geno.
You can't make one with Mallow.
You can't make Geno Shoes.

You need another Deal to make said Geno shoes even if you have the right to use it for a T-shirt.

It's a comparison to explain you how it works.
And for the Copyright infringement stuff it's because said Company didn't sold the right for SAID USE of their brand.

t. My own sister who work as a lawyer and had to sue knock-off brand and creepy YouTube Video on the behalf of Disney France

Agree just because they got the rights to use the character in one aspect. Doesn't mean they can now use them however they please. We weren't there when the deal took place. We have no idea if their were contingencies to allow Geno to be used, and to the extent he can be used.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Ah yes, reminds me of an incident regarding Bowser's victory pose in SMRPG, because it seemed obscene to other cultures.

It's a pose that they've included in other games but have had to phase out. It was patched out of Mario Kart 8 for instance.

It's basically equivalent to the middle finger but worse. Could explain it but not sure if its appropriate for the boards.

 

[Pazzo.]

Now if Game and Watch suffered from alcoholism when using his Side Smash there might be a case for harmful stereotypes. As it stands, I just hope it stays in by this point. I'd be pretty bummed out if the only Indian reference in the entire game gets removed. We already missed out on Bravely Second.

Well, maybe T. Hawk can be a spirit or something.

 

[N3ON]

And there's also native Ameircans that aren't.

Whenever people say, "i'm X and okay with it" it doesn't maigcally make it okay for everyone.

That's a two-way road, btw.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

"It has been 2 days since the last unnecessary discussion about some sort of ethnicity in video games."
takes down 2, replaces it with 0
"It has been 0 days since the last unnecessary discussion about some sort of ethnicity in video games."

Honestly people, not everyone in the world has the same views on diversity/offensiveness/political correctness/whatever that we do. Let's not try to make Japan appropriate our culture by coercing them into our viewpoints.

Also, on a separate note, gonna marathon both Shrek movies this weekend, once I get my homework done.

 

[owjies]

Despite the narrative about Square's stinginess, which I do mostly agree with, it's also interesting how casual Sakurai and Nomura seemed to portray their negotiation for Cloud. It reads like, "Hey, I want Cloud." "You sure? He's an older character." "Yep, Cloud plz." "Aight, cool."

If there is some truth to that portrayal in the old interview, then the situation surrounding Geno involves Sakurai as well. I feel like if Geno was a first party Nintendo character, he would've been added way back in Brawl. When you look at recent 3rd party characters though: Megaman, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, and Simon, it's clear that each character just simply takes priority over Geno. That doesn't diminish him as a character or SMRPG as a game, it's just the reality of a limited amount of time and space.

If Geno doesn't make it as DLC, then it could just be that Sakurai has moved on from Geno, which is what I'm starting to think. Maybe he was negotiating for Geno to be in Ultimate's base roster back in 2015, then Disney suddenly called up and okay'd the rights to Sora. Then they all shifted gears away from Geno, scrapped his planning, and decided to move Sora to DLC.

On the other hand, maybe Sakurai is hard at work on Geno right now, and was inspired to throw in Piranha Plant while conducting research on him. Screw being rational, GO GENO!!!

 

[FixedFun]

Not with the context it carries. Some people are upset it about it.

Nintendo's had to remove animations before for causing offense.

Of course I understand the context, I know what the game truly means. But it's also a game from Japan, they're not informed about Native Americans, and the game still exists Nintendo can't just erase a game from existence, they even changed the game for the GBA released.
I-I take the animation as a nice nod to one of the Game & Watch games, it is hard for me to see bad intentions.

Sorry, I'm just defending , he's my main and I take good care of him ^_^u

 

[MyDude213]

You realize we could've said this exact same thing about Cloud and Squenix/Sony right lol

Lol maybe when Cloud as a character was actually exclusive to Sony's platform sure. But since his game has come out over the years Cloud as a character has appeared on other games on other platforms outside of his own game and Sony platforms. That means Cloud is no longer a Third Party IP and hasn't been for a long time hell he has actually appeared on Nintendo platforms before. Master Chief on the other hand has not now nor will it never be in anything outside of a Microsoft platform.

 

[KMDP]

ffriendly reminder that not even some of the native american users here care or are offended my Game and Watches indian burning move and the ones that are offended arent even that race

It's always better to actually ask people of certain races if they're offended before assuming that they are.

And there's also native Ameircans that aren't.

You sure?

Have you met them? Or are you speaking hypothetically?

 

[Pazzo.]

Too small to be worried about, too touchy to be featured.

Way of the Red Man.

 

[vaanrose]

>people still confuse real life people and "imagery right" with "Fictional Property right"

Favorite dish of mine.

Geno Being a Mii costume is a deal.
Geno being a spirit is another one.
Geno becoming a fighter is another deal to sign.

It's not "Yo I buy Geno's right I can do whatever the **** I want now"

Don't hurt yourself more. Geno have a chance as DLC. But using those weird leap of faulty logic isn't the way to go and never worked for smash.

We don't have the faintest clue how these deals are written and I really wish people would stop assuming that we do. We don't know how specific the IP rights agreements are with regards to how the content can be used or in what capacity. We don't know if every company gets the same agreement, or if even every IP from the same company gets the same agreement. We don't know how much money changes hands or in which direction. We don't know anything other than right now, Geno's face is in the game, so Nintendo has acquired the rights to put Geno's face in the game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That's not how it works again.

You get the right to make a SMRPG T-shirt with Only Geno.
You can't make one with Mallow.
You can't make Geno Shoes.

You need another Deal to make said Geno shoes even if you have the right to use it for a T-shirt.

It's a comparison to explain you how it works.
And for the Copyright infringement stuff it's because said Company didn't sold the right for SAID USE of their brand.

t. My own sister who work as a lawyer and had to sue knock-off brand and creepy YouTube Video on the behalf of Disney France

While this TECHNICALLY true.

This is assumptive.

And it's also very unlikely.

''Hey guys I can make you money."

''BUT WE ONLY WANT THE MONEY IF IT'S A TINY LITTLE PICTURE THAT'S USELESS TO EVERYONE" said no sane company ever.

Sound logic would tell any company ''We get more money if we sell this character as a character" instead of ''We sell this character as a tiny little useless" icon.

Square is 4 years shy of being 50 years old as a company. They're not stupid. And what people are suggesting from them? It's kind of stupidity.

They're stingy. Every company is. Yes, even Nintendo to a degree, but not stupid.

 

[Robertman2]

If were going for FPS characters, the prime choice is Doomguy due to the fact Doom is one of the OG shooters, the FPS genre was labled as "Doomclones" for years.

After that goes Chief, since he made FPS on consoles popular, and helped with online play on consoles a lot.

Then after that, it putters off into the likes of Duke Nukem, Joanna Dark, the tf2 crew, etc etc.

Then you get nongame characters like Turok and Bond who were big on N64 but break the rule by being from literature/comics.

Turok is from a comic?

Huh. Neat.

 

[Idon]

Well at least the game's coming out in a month so have something to talk about other than character upon character.

 

[A.G.L.]

Despite the narrative about Square's stinginess, which I do mostly agree with, it's also interesting how casual Sakurai and Nomura seemed to portray their negotiation for Cloud. It reads like, "Hey, I want Cloud." "You sure? He's an older character." "Yep, Cloud plz." "Aight, cool."

If there is some truth to that portrayal in the old interview, then the situation surrounding Geno involves Sakurai as well. I feel like if Geno was a first party Nintendo character, he would've been added way back in Brawl. When you look at recent 3rd party characters though: Megaman, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, and Simon, it's clear that each character just simply takes priority over Geno. That doesn't diminish him as a character or SMRPG as a game, it's just the reality of a limited amount of time and space.

If Geno doesn't make it as DLC, then it could just be that Sakurai has moved on from Geno, which is what I'm starting to think. Maybe he was negotiating for Geno to be in Ultimate's base roster back in 2015, then Disney suddenly called up and okay'd the rights to Sora. Then they all shifted gears away from Geno, scrapped his planning, and decided to move Sora to DLC.

On the other hand, maybe Sakurai is hard at work on Geno right now, and was inspired to throw in Piranha Plant while conducting research on him. Screw being rational, GO GENO!!!

Lol inspired to throw a piranha plant, that made me bust out laughing.

 

[Jetsurge]

So Sakurai is doing his famitsu interview next week right? Hopefully he details when the dlc characters actually were chosen

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

But it wouldn't
Katalina could easily have a realizable move set unlike an Angry Bird...

Implying Sakurai wouldn't be able to think up a moveset for Angry Birds.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

"It has been 2 days since the last unnecessary discussion about some sort of ethnicity in video games."
takes down 2, replaces it with 0
"It has been 0 days since the last unnecessary discussion about some sort of ethnicity in video games."

Honestly people, not everyone in the world has the same views on diversity/offensiveness/political correctness/whatever that we do. Let's not try to make Japan appropriate our culture by coercing them into our viewpoints.

Also, on a separate note, gonna marathon both Shrek movies this weekend, once I get my homework done.

We’re in the modern times, we must always talk about real life stuff and apply it to Smash

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

We’re in the modern times, we must always talk about real life stuff and apply it to Smash

Trust me, I've been trying to apply Shrek to Smash, but Sakurai NEVER responds to my tweets.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So...which stages do you folks want to try out first? I might go with Peach's Castle 64, for old time's sake.

 

[Robertman2]

Honestly I think the G&W thing is on par with Punch-Out in terms of cultural insensitivity (aka not to a troublesome degree) - because it seems more just... "othering" over actually racist, but anything that causes this much ire probably will get changed. I just hope they change it to a bandit instead of normal G&W, because that's just more interesting.

Eh, Punch-Out is closer to Street Fighter or Overwatch than the Game & Watch thing

While this TECHNICALLY true.

This is assumptive.

And it's also very unlikely.

''Hey guys I can make you money."

''BUT WE ONLY WANT THE MONEY IF IT'S A TINY LITTLE PICTURE THAT'S USELESS TO EVERYONE" said no sane company ever.

Sound logic would tell any company ''We get more money if we sell this character as a character" instead of ''We sell this character as a tiny little useless" icon.

Square is 4 years shy of being 50 years old as a company. They're not stupid. And what people are suggesting from them? It's kind of stupidity.

They're stingy. Every company is. Yes, even Nintendo to a degree, but not stupid.

Here's the thing though

Geno would make less money as a DLC character than almost any other Square character, unless Sakurai picked some crap like the Bouncer guy, Rad Racer or the main character from the Quiet Man

Implying Sakurai wouldn't be able to think up a moveset for Angry Birds.

Now I want Angry Birds just to see how Sakurai would them work

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

unless Sakurai picked some crap like the Bouncer guy, Rad Racer or the main character from the Quiet Man

Never actually thought someone here would bring up Sion Barzahd, especially given that he was proto-Sora in terms of design template.

Also, I legit want a Rad Racer stage.

 

[Pyr]

Well at least the game's coming out in a month so have something to talk about other than character upon character.

It'll be a magical time. Tier discussions, memes, jank, Easter eggs, and Reddit posts as far as the eye can see. We'll laugh. We'll cry. Magical, Magical time.

 

[PLATINUM7]

It's always better to actually ask people of certain races if they're offended before assuming that they are.

You sure?

Have you met them? Or are you speaking hypothetically?

Well at least as sure as I can be from people saying they are native American and are offended as I can be of people saying they are Native American and aren't offended.

I don't usually step in on stuff like this because it's usually just people being offended on behalf of others at stuff like Sony having someone play culturally contextual music at E3. But I never saw Japanese people say they were angry about that.

 

[AugustusB]

So Sakurai is doing his famitsu interview next week right? Hopefully he details when the dlc characters actually were chosen

One can only hope we get that time frame locked. That can make things easier to assume who. Still not a concrete its these 5, but it (hopefully) narrows down the idea at least.

 

[Noipoi]

So...which stages do you folks want to try out first? I might go with Peach's Castle 64, for old time's sake.

Battlefield, for thematic purposes. Then i'm gonna do an 8 Player Smash with each of the original 8 on a 64 stage. I'm thinking Saffron City.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Geno would make less money as a DLC character than almost any other Square character, unless Sakurai picked some crap like the Bouncer guy, Rad Racer or the main character from the Quiet Man

That's also subjective, assumptive, and baseless.

You're only thinking outsiders are capable of ''WHO?" and ''That's dumb but what about -X characters from other Square game!"

When there's also an equal chance of ''Wow that looks cool! I'm going to buy that." ''Eh, I don't know him, but I want my roster screen to be complete!", and ''WOW I PLAYED THAT GAME AS A CHILD!", etc, etc.

By nature of being DLC for Smash Brothers practically any character is gonna sell.

Corrin and Bayonetta sold well for god's sake and one was barely known at all when announced in most parts of the world and the other is a cult character from an M rated game.

 

[Robertman2]

Never actually thought someone here would bring up Sion Barzahd, especially given that he was proto-Sora in terms of design template.

Also, I legit want a Rad Racer stage.

He's my go to when I want an example of a random obscure Square character

 

[Pazzo.]

Sakurai should have made Side-Special on Game and Watch the Native, I tell ya.

 

[Sigran101]

Eh, Punch-Out is closer to Street Fighter or Overwatch than the Game & Watch thing

Here's the thing though

Geno would make less money as a DLC character than almost any other Square character, unless Sakurai picked some crap like the Bouncer guy, Rad Racer or the main character from the Quiet Man

So what? Square doesn't decide the smash bros. roster. They can't force Sakurai to put in a character they're pushing. They can only say yes or no to the character he asks for.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm picking up some anti Geno bias in this thread. Just a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

So...which stages do you folks want to try out first? I might go with Peach's Castle 64, for old time's sake.

Depends. If I'm on my own, whatever stage I happen to play on first when unlocking characters. Otherwise, Temple.

 

[AugustusB]

Trust me, I've been trying to apply Shrek to Smash, but Sakurai NEVER responds to my tweets.

Rainbow Cruise. It was one of my favorites from Melee and the Nostalgia is gonna make me dizzy.

EDIT: WRONG QUOTE LOL

He is love...

 

[Pazzo.]

I'm picking up some anti Geno bias in this thread. Just a bit.

Grinch whiplash.