Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Union of Darkness]

Apparently there's a "Fighter Spirit" category, so Spirits don't disconfirm characters (I didn't think they would anyway); they can just change their Spirit's category if the character already has one when added.
https://twitter.com/PJiggles_/status/1058245803804831749

So apparently Geno is back on the table then.

 

[Noipoi]

This week on "Geno's dead, and here's why!"

 

[ZephyrZ]

Until an actual fighter (not an alt costume) shows up as a Spirit I'm going to doubt this statement.

You're kind of splitting hairs here.

Meta Ridley is still Ridley and still an actual fighter. I don't see why they'd be like "oh yeah we can have a Meta Ridley spirit as well as a playable Meta Ridley, but we can't have Bubsy the Bobcat and a Bubsy spirit in the same game!"

I mean, I guess it's supposedly possible, but it still seems like a huge stretch to me to treat it like a total deconfirmation.

 

[SolarFlare657]

My hopes for the 4 others:
Geno
Jibanyan
Ninten/Claus
Octolings (Player Octos)

 

[Potato_]

Thank you and I know that Aqua statement still hits me hard ha.

Also I forgot to mention that the latest Square rep 2b in Soul Calibur 6 is a perfect example of how Square Enix reps work. She is current and they are using her to cross promote while having her in the game.

I mean I agree, but Cloud promotes what exactly? FF as a whole?

Because that FF 7 remake... that ain't coming out anytime soon most likely.

He was put in largely because of his status over any sort of promotion, but I do think he's an exception to the rule.

 

[Flyboy]

So my friend who loves GranBlue told me about Katalina and I looked up her design and I'm not gonna lie she's cute as hell and sounds like a really fun character and if that upcoming console game comes to Switch I'm pretty sure I'd be okay with her. I mean, I'm getting the pack no matter what because I just like playing as people. But if she isn't a fighter she'd make a VERY nice Mii costume.

Apparently during one event she gets transformed into a tank. Final Smash potential right there.

 

[Cowsaysmoo]

Anyone mention the new Devil AT yet? I think Arthur from GnG would make an awesome rep.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Considering Vergeben as been spot-on for so long now, I think his DLC claims are all but confirmed at his point.

I'll probably get them anyway if only because I have no reason not to, but it does kinda give me a sour feeling that these will be the characters we end Ultimate with. At least I have my tho.

 

[T-Hell]

Anyone mention the new Devil AT yet? I think Arthur from GnG would make an awesome rep.

The Devil was in Smash4. Also welcome to Smashboards.

 

[GoeGoe]

I highly doubt it as thats not how Square Enix works as a company. Square tends to be very stingy in lending out characters and when they do they are current. Theres a reason why Noctis appeared in Tekken and not someone else. Square Enix, I have noticed, when it comes to company partnerships. They like to keep their character representatives current. This is because they like to cross promote, its a you scratch my back and ill scratch yours. I agree Cloud takes that a portion of that slot, however I do not see Square putting Geno in. Because they would have no use for him outside of Smash Bros. They wouldnt be able to use him to cross promote their other games. If they put Sora or Lara Croft, that could potentially lead to further partnerships in the future and it would help in advertising one of their biggest characters.

Sakurai already gave a lot to Square to gain the permission to use Geno. Cloud was represented, FF games appeared on Switch. Promotion done, square agrees to lend a dead character. They don't lose a thing here. It's a special case. They kept Sakurai waiting since 4 to grant him that permission. Like first they went, put Cloud and we'll allow a costume. Now, ok we sell a lot of FF games on Switch we give you a dead character... BUT IT'S OURS. (according to you I think that's how it went).

What? This statement makes little sense. We know Cloud is in, but just because he is doesn't mean that Square Enix is sated with their promotional rep quota. They're a company concerned with the bottom line, and there is always room for more profit and promotion.

Why would Square include Geno, a niche character, over a current character who could promote an upcoming product or franchise?

Well I don't think Sakurai will disappoint his Geno fans. It's that simple.

 

[A.G.L.]

So apparently Geno is back on the table then.

He is, but it just depend if they'll add a character that is not relative anymore. It would be very out of Square Enix's business patterns to add him, as he cant help them cross promote. We will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I mean I agree, but Cloud promotes what exactly? FF as a whole?

Because that FF 7 remake... that ain't coming out anytime soon most likely.

He was put in largely because of his status over any sort of promotion, but I do think he's an exception to the rule.

Well, there is that upcoming Switch port of FF 7. It seems unlikely that they were considering that back when they got Cloud for Smash 4, though, but it's still worth pointing out.

 

[Starbound]

As much as I think Katalina would be a strange DLC pick due to not being international, I think she contrasts well due to the ice magic she has.

Everyone's going to think she's a FE character though.

 

[The_Thumbs]

I see some people questioning who is possible for DLC due to the direct "confirmed" planning for DLC was all started at the begging of Ultimate's planning, but I feel the wording is too vague to say that for sure.

"We decided which fighters to include when we started planning, so we couldn't add characters from titles like Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which was announced after planning started."

This was said when talking about the Rex costume. This could mean that DLC was decided before XC2 was announced. Yet technically it doesn't specify if it's base game or DLC lineup. I see it as three possibities of how this could be read:
- DLC was decided at the start of game planning and that's why Rex isn't in.
- Base characters were decided at the start of planning. Rex isn't in DLC due to the DLC planning starting after XC2 release.
- Base characters were decided at the start of planning. Rex isn't in base characters. "Maybe" future DLC.

Like, I'm leaning 2nd option honestly. I'm not trying to say Rex has like some great chance, I have no feelings on the character one way or the other. Yet I just feel discounting the chances of characters because they didn't have an announcement before 201X may be a mistake. I'm not saying Nintendo absolutely didn't have some DLC plans from the start. I just don't think ALL the DLC in the first wave was decided back then (and thanks to internal communication, unannounced games could still get representation).

Just another thing that makes me feel he was referring to base-roster and not DLC-character is a line at the bottom of the screen around this time that says this: "While Rex didn't quite make the roster..." I know "roster"could be read as "base-roster" or "DLC-roster" but I feel roster is a word more fitting base.

Again, feeling unsure of Rex is fine. I think the inclusion of music from his game may lean him being less likely. Yet I don't think having to be a known character back in 2015/2016 is necessary. Just some thoughts on the matter, felt like some people were stating things as hard rules based on some vague language.

(And just general side point, I very much don't think having a spirit hurts or helps any characters).

 

[Plumstar]

This still impresses me. Not a surprise, but he was 1 of 4 characters () who could even dodge those beams at all.

........? (don't worry, I know what you mean though.)

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

As much as I think Katalina would be a strange DLC pick due to not being international, I think she contrasts well due to the ice magic she has.

Everyone's going to think she's a FE character though.

Actually, not being international never stopped Sakurai before. Look at Roy! (Fire emblem, not koopaling)

 

[Deleted member]

Thank you and I know that Aqua statement still hits me hard ha.

Also I forgot to mention that the latest Square rep 2b in Soul Calibur 6 is a perfect example of how Square Enix reps work. She is current and they are using her to cross promote while having her in the game.

While I don't wanna blow the load just yet, this is how I pretty much feel with Heihachi. Even if Tekken 7 released back in 2015, it's still on the minds of people due to the insane DLC characters like Negan and Noctis. And I've yet to see any Heihachi costume or spirit, too.

 

[GoeGoe]

As much as I think Katalina would be a strange DLC pick due to not being international, I think she contrasts well due to the ice magic she has.

Everyone's going to think she's a FE character though.

I mean seriously dude, she DOES look like a Fire Emblem character. Ice or mice I'm really fed with those generic looking characters.. ugh.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

........? (don't worry, I know what you mean though.)

Well... canonically, the Hylian Shield is indestructible...

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

So do you think we’ll get any Echoes as DLC?

I know Sakurai said Echoes were not part of the planned 5 DLC packs. But I can see them releasing Echoes inbetween the new fighters. Probably price them cheaper and maybe even free for Nintendo Online subscribers.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You're kind of splitting hairs here.

Meta Ridley is still Ridley and still an actual fighter. I don't see why they'd be like "oh yeah we can have a Meta Ridley spirit as well as a playable Meta Ridley, but we can't have Bubsy the Bobcat and a Bubsy spirit in the same game!"

I mean, I guess it's supposedly possible, but it still seems like a huge stretch to me to treat it like a total deconfirmation.

I’m not, but I’m saying I won’t believe the argument that playable fighters can be Spirits until I see an actual playable fighter that is a spirit. So far all we’ve seen is alt costumes as spirits and that’s it.

Sakurai already gave a lot to Square to gain the permission to use Geno. Cloud was represented, FF games appeared on Switch. Promotion done, square agrees to lend a dead character. They don't lose a thing here. It's a special case. They kept Sakurai waiting since 4 to grant him that permission. Like first they went, put Cloud and we'll allow a costume. Now, ok we sell a lot of FF games on Switch we give you a dead character... BUT IT'S OURS. (according to you I think that's how it went).

Well I don't think Sakurai will disappoint his Geno fans. It's that simple.

>Thinking Final Fantasy promotion on Switch is enough

That’s funny.

I don’t believe that Occam’s Razor is applicable to the situation. If Sakurai doesn’t want to disappoint Geno fans, then how come he has for every game since Brawl?

Because Square Enix won’t let him in.

Corporate Practices are much more complex than you think.

 

[Nethermoosen]

He is, but it just depend if they'll add a character that is not relative anymore. It would be very out of Square Enix's business patterns to add him, as he cant help them cross promote. We will just have to wait and see what happens.

He could help cross promote a new Mario RPG. He could promote the relationship mending between Nintendo and Square. He could just rake in the cash and promote nothing.

He could be used to maybe strike a deal with Nintendo regarding other cross-company privileges.

Not saying these are likely. And while I am all for speculation, I don’t see the Geno speculation cementing anyone’s expectations without some actual reports. There is plenty to make anyone see either way on his inclusion. It just depends on how positive or negative you are about the issue. Not like emotionally, just..you know, you either do or you don’t.

 

[WaddleMatt]

So do you think we’ll get any Echoes as DLC?

I know Sakurai said Echoes were not part of the planned 5 DLC packs. But I can see them releasing Echoes inbetween the new fighters. Probably price them cheaper and maybe even free for Nintendo Online subscribers.

It is possible but I wouldn't expect it. Would love to see Impa as a Sheik echo or Ninten as a Lucas echo.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

You know, while I also believe Verge 100% at this point, I think people are getting ahead of themselves. Verge himself didn't say Steve and Katalina are in, he said that Hitagi said they're in and that he trusts them. He never said that those characters definitely will be DLC, though, unlike most of the other characters he's leaked.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

There's no such thing as a character that "deserves" to be in. At all. It's not a thing that exists. The only thing that qualifies a character to be in Smash is if it is a character from a videogame/game-related, has a Nintendo connection, and is fun.

Maybe the problem is you, my dude. Who are your seven? Dollars to donuts they'll contain the usual salty suspects.

I'm ashamed of ya'll. I thought we had more dank memers around here.

 

[Graizen]

Question for you guys:

Who have more chances as a DLC :

Rayman or Crash Bandicoot?

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

One thing annoyed me. Why wasn’t Snake’s cardboard box able to deflect the beams? It has so many other functions in the source material, from a toboggan to a disguise to even a pin board...

 

[Luigifan18]

The Devil was in Smash4. Also welcome to Smashboards.

The Devil was in Brawl, actually.

 

[Plumstar]

Well... canonically, the Hylian Shield is indestructible...

I know that. Link was able to dodge and use his shield from those beams, not even Samus could dodge in time. I just wanted to point out that he said only 4 dodged those beams, wasn't debating him.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Question for you guys:

Who have more chances as a DLC :

Rayman or Crash Bandicoot?

Opinion: Much to my chagrin, I think it’s Crash.
I am team Rayman in this issue, though.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I pre-bought the Fighter Pack, so I'm down for whatever I guess.

Never played KH, but Sora seems like he'd be a fun addition, so I'd be hyped for that.

Still kind of pulling for not Steve. I'd be really excited for Banjo, but honestly I'll take just anyone who's not Steve, haha

Katalina actually looks kind of cool, and provided they can come up with a unique moveset I don't care about the "anime swordsman" thing. I will say that I worry her inclusion will only increase the amount of random/no connection to Nintendo Thrid Party requests.

 

[A.G.L.]

Sakurai already gave a lot to Square to gain the permission to use Geno. Cloud was represented, FF games appeared on Switch. Promotion done, square agrees to lend a dead character. They don't lose a thing here. It's a special case. They kept Sakurai waiting since 4 to grant him that permission. Like first they went, put Cloud and we'll allow a costume. Now, ok we sell a lot of FF games on Switch we give you a dead character... BUT IT'S OURS. (according to you I think that's how it went).

Well I don't think Sakurai will disappoint his Geno fans. It's that simple.

Hmm, but why not put him in the Wii U Smash Bors then when Capcom and Sega already had two representatives. Through their partnership with having Cloud in, you are correct it helped to open the door to bring their FF games to the Switch. However I do not believe Square will deviate from their business patterns. If they added Sora as an example. This could open the door to bringing the other Kingdom Hearts games that were not available on Nintendo consoles to the Nintendo Switch or a future console. I think Square will continue their previously laid business strategies that they have done with character crossovers. Which is they will help them cross promote and will open the door to future partnerships. Also were not sure how much permission Square has given to Sakurai in terms of Geno. In the end Square Enix has the final say to Geno getting in as a playable character, no matter how much Sakurai wants him in.

 

[Deleted member]

Question for you guys:

Who have more chances as a DLC :

Rayman or Crash Bandicoot?

Crash, due to the N. Sane Trilogy. He's going to also get a double pack with Spyro's trilogy so more people are going to know Crash.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

My only motive for defeating this villain is because they killed Isabelle.

 

[Starbound]

My only motive for defeating this villain is because they killed Isabelle.

Same but for Pichu

 

[Potato_]

While I don't wanna blow the load just yet, this is how I pretty much feel with Heihachi. Even if Tekken 7 released back in 2015, it's still on the minds of people due to the insane DLC characters like Negan and Noctis. And I've yet to see any Heihachi costume or spirit, too.

I doubt Heihachi purely due to his reasoning from before, namely not being able to find a moveset that accurately represents his game. If you think about it, creating a moveset for a typically 3D plane fighter in a 2D fighter would be incredibly difficult to replicate while still keeping the core feel of the original game.

He could just make a general moveset for him from his Tekken moveset and leave it at that sure, but from Bayo (multiple jumps and her unique spotdodge mechanic), Cloud (Limit Break amplifying his moves), Ryu (inputs for his moves), hell even Mega Man (specials based around multiple different boss powerups just like his game), Sakurai clearly wants to incorporate parts of the original series with third party fighters as part of their identity. I think that this is Heihachi's biggest obstacle for Sakurai, figuring out how to capture Tekken's style in Smash.

(of course this is all just speculation based on one Sakurai comment so take this with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Also, just a reminder that Kirby is canonically stronger than Bayo.

 

[hazza5557]

Question for you guys:

Who have more chances as a DLC :

Rayman or Crash Bandicoot?

Rayman cuz of the relationship between Nintendo and Ubisoft, plus Rayman Legends came out when they were planning DLC for this game and it was a success.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Actually my idea for the dlc characters could be these;
(Not a leak, just the ones that haven’t been deconfirmed)
James Bond
Samurai Goroh
Around 800 more Fire Emblem reps
Masahiro Sakurai
Reggie.

This isn’t what we want.

It’s what we need.

 

[A.G.L.]

He could help cross promote a new Mario RPG. He could promote the relationship mending between Nintendo and Square. He could just rake in the cash and promote nothing.

He could be used to maybe strike a deal with Nintendo regarding other cross-company privileges.

Not saying these are likely. And while I am all for speculation, I don’t see the Geno speculation cementing anyone’s expectations without some actual reports. There is plenty to make anyone see either way on his inclusion. It just depends on how positive or negative you are about the issue. Not like emotionally, just..you know, you either do or you don’t.

Would Nintendo want another Super Mario RPG though? They already have the Mario and Luigi RPG's that share many of the same characters and gameplay. I do not believe Nintendo would want competition to one of their most successful gaming properties.