Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Misery Brick]

There's a reason to believe they're deconfirmed, but they are not, in fact, deconfirmed. There's a subtle difference.

They're aiming for representing as many characters as possible, and any bit of representation can be interpreted as the representation. We don't know how long ago the season pass characters were decided upon. We don't know if they would put spirits in for characters they know they're making later. We don't know if the spirits of already playable characters-- like K. Rool-- are attained in the same way as every other spirit because we haven't actually played the mode yet.

So if a character is shown as a spirit, it's not worth shrugging off. That could be the character's sole representation. It could also not. We don't know enough either way, but it's not insignificant.

Well that can go with almost anything. After all, the same exact scare occurred when people saw Lucas and Mewtwo as trophies when Smash 4 launched.
Just because it could be that's all there is, doesn't mean it will be.

The point that many others are trying to make, is that Spirits aren't a damning deconfirmation either way.
It's not like an AT that has a huge interactive role in terms of gameplay, it's more or less a sticker.

I do get what you mean, a series appearing as one may be its only recognition, so you should appreciate it at the very least.
However, you shouldn't freak out about it, given there's a vast amount of characters already featured in this game as stickers.

It shouldn't be treated as a true deconfirmation at the end of the day.
They should basically be treated in the same regard trophies are:
A sign that Nintendo proper recognized these characters and series, and decided to put them on display as apart of a massive celebration.

 

[Penroze]

You know in the movies where a father looks into his sons eyes and though he loves his son so much all he can see is his dead mom

That's gonna be me with Piranha Plant and I'm gonna see Paper Mario and Geno in his nonexistent eyes

[looks into piranha plant's nonexistent eyes]
[sees every ARMS character laying on the ground bleeding to death]

 

[Zinith]

What's Kirby-Piranha Plant gonna look like, folks?

As in, what do you think will happen to Kirby's face? Or will a plant be added on top of his head instead.

I'll actually answer reasonably and seriously...

He'll probably be spotted

 

[Starbound]

DLC Predictions?
I don't expect any first parties tbh.

If Spirits = deconfirmation, then the only big names left are Elma, Impa, Rhythm Heaven. more Pokemon... and Paper Mario O:

But yeah, I fully expect the bulk will be third parties.

 

[Sari]

Who is the character between Fox and Link with the oval shaped head?

 

[Luigi The President]

Spring Man fans...I'm sorry to y'all.
Rex fans...I'm sorry to y'all.

This was a real heartbreaking day for many. I can get why people are disappointed.

 

[UberMadman]

After this direct...yeah. I think you guys need to give up on Geno. He's not happening.

Sakurai just deconfirmed Isaac, Skull Kid, Shadow, Spring Man, and Rex all in one direct, while confirming a ****ing Piranha Plant.

It's safe to say all the hype from the K. Rool direct has vanished.

That's what people said to Ridley and King K. Rool supporters after Brawl. They were wrong then. You may be wrong now. Time will tell. If he doesn't get confirmed, I'll bow out peacefully, I promise. This roster is amazing, so I have no qualms with it as it is.

 

[Deleted member]

What's Kirby-Piranha Plant gonna look like, folks?

As in, what do you think will happen to Kirby's face? Or will a plant be added on top of his head instead.

Hmm...

I just want to see Kirby doing Darkest Lariat. That's going to be hilarious.

 

[Atmoz]

"Steve's a lock now"

We just saw Spirits, where characters can still be represented
The Minecraft content just being a Steve/Creeper Spirit is NOT a stretch

This. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the DLC "packs" is just Banjo-Kazooie (given Phil Spencer's big advocation for them twice), and this Minecraft "content" is merely stickers for the Spirits mode.

 

[Will]

I expect he'll be announced at the Game Awards or Banjo-Kazooie in response to their 20th Anniversary, perhaps maybe even both.

Name a single newcomer who's been revealed in a non-Nintendo Direct showcase or a newcomer who was specifically released for their anniversary.
Okay, now stop that idea.

 

[Bowserlick]

I wonder if Petey Piranha scored really high in the ballot.
But not thinking Petey would work, yet still wanting to please, Sakurai included a regular piranha plant.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

>Inktober is over
>Flint does one last drawing anyway
Looks like Sakurai isn't the only madman today.

I wouldn't have even gone through ten sequels of Super Smash Brothers and have asked for or expected a Piranha Plant.

From a speculative standpoint, it raises questions of where the line is drawn and why not this generic enemy or another (there will be an incoming wave of support for various generic, iconic enemies I wager, lot of them as much of a claim to stake as the plant).

And most of all a part of me is mad that it isn't Paper Mario or Geno.

But damn is it clearly funner than a lot of the more respectable characters we've had and been getting. Like just compare it to the titular protagonist of the series himself: Mario. Piranha blows up out of the Mushroom Kingdom in the move/style department, no question. This is peak levels of design.

Although I am surprised there is no fire ball attack, that's what I think of when I imagine a Piranha Plant, outside of just incessant biting. If such a move exists, it's a standard attack, and I would have figured it would have been featured, so it doesn't seem to be a thing. The footage might even show them all. Oh well though.

I am at least glad they referenced Super Mario Bros. 3 in there, Ptooie is forgotten in general. In any case, it does make it easier for people to back Bandana Waddle Dee, who has been treated unfairly as far as speculation goes (despite being Kirby's no. 4 at this point in time).

Also, it makes you wonder if would get PTSD upon seeing PP (definitely not , that one wasn't in Brawl).

I wonder if Petey Piranha scored really high in the ballot.
But not thinking Petey would work, yet still wanting to please, Sakurai included a regular piranha plant.

Not too big!

Joking aside, I thought there may have been joke votes, but that reasoning of yours makes more sense.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

So I'm reading on Twitter (one post by one of the SourceGaming guys) that the World of Light content and the Spirits stuff they showed near the beginning of the Direct are two different modes....is this true? Did I miss this tidbit? Because if so, that changes my stance quite a bit on the World of Light stuff.

They're saying in the Spirits menu there are 4 different modes or something...

 

[MangoTwist]

Based on the Rex mii costume and the Springman assist trophy, I except most of the DLC to be third party and characters from brand new Nintendo games, such as FE Three Houses. Especially since Rex and Springman seemed like the obvious picks for DLC

It seemed like the whole reason Rex wasnt elligible was because they decided on dlc long ago. I doubt they'll be eligible

 

[Deleted member]

Tell me if this music fits those who believed the leak, as well as Geno and Isaac fans right now:

 

[Noipoi]

What's Kirby-Piranha Plant gonna look like, folks?

As in, what do you think will happen to Kirby's face? Or will a plant be added on top of his head instead.

I want his face to become a Piranha Plant.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Don't forget Magolor, a popular Japanese pick.

We should really call today Bloody Thursday, because this was a real massacre.

...ouch.

IT'S BLACK FRIDAY

PAINT THE DEVIL ON THE WALL

(megadeth is a great band)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

"Steve's a lock now"

We just saw Spirits, where characters can still be represented
The Minecraft content just being a Steve/Creeper Spirit is NOT a stretch

Yep at this point hope Steve is a good character

 

[Blargg888]

A bit of a random thought, but if Spirits has enough of a story to have groups formed like SSE, then it'd be cool to do group fights between SSE groups and Spirits groups.

If not though, then I'll still do SSE vs SSE
Team Saviors vs Team Didn't Even Bother to Show Up
vs


Also, with the inclusion of Ken, we now have two Project X Zone teams in Smash:
and
and
and

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Spirits by themselves don't dis-confirm characters as we can see male wii fit trainer and Meta Ridley ones.

If that were the case, all 5 of the pack characters would be 3rd parties

 

[Will]

(given he was only specifically asked about Banjo and no other character, nor given the ability to be asked what his character of preference would be)

FTFY

 

[Zinith]

Tell me if this music fits those who believed the leak:

I didn't even have to click on the video to say "YES!!!"

 

[Slavic]

Who is the character between Fox and Link with the oval shaped head?

View attachment 174845

I'm sure it must be our carrot boi Olimar

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Name a single newcomer who's been revealed in a non-Nintendo Direct showcase or a newcomer who was specifically released for their anniversary.
Okay, now stop that idea.

Name a prediction that Spawn Wave has gotten wrong as of late relating to Smash Bros.?

Pac-Man was revealed in a closed-doors presentation for Smash Bros, same thing with Wii Fit Trainer, who was revealed on the show floor of E3. Neither were in a Nintendo Direct showcase or revealed for their anniversary. Additionally, while not a character reveal, Nintendo did reveal a Nintendo Direct at EVO this year.

There is precedence for this.

 

[Nap_]

DLC is already decided.

I've used this post like 6 times today lol.

My bet. I'm smelling Resident Evil.
Hoping for Banjo and Dixie anyway.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ya'll are sleeping on World 1-1 Goomba.


Name a more iconic Nintendo enemy, I'll wait.

I mean, as of 2018?

Spoiler: The Most Iconic

 

[staindgrey]

[looks into piranha plant's nonexistent eyes]
[sees every ARMS character laying on the ground bleeding to death]

Did... Did you... make your avatar unfocused and glitchy because of the Direct today?

Aw.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yep at this point hope Steve is a good character

..did you read my post chief

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

There's a reason to believe they're deconfirmed, but they are not, in fact, deconfirmed. There's a subtle difference.

They're aiming for representing as many characters as possible, and any bit of representation can be interpreted as the representation. We don't know how long ago the season pass characters were decided upon. We don't know if they would put spirits in for characters they know they're making later. We don't know if the spirits of already playable characters-- like K. Rool-- are attained in the same way as every other spirit because we haven't actually played the mode yet.

So if a character is shown as a spirit, it's not worth shrugging off. That could be the character's sole representation. It could also not. We don't know enough either way, but it's not insignificant.

But not giving them a spirit because they're planned as DLC would just cause suspicion and essentially give away if a character is playable or not. Like if Dixie or bandana dee or some other popular first party mysteriously didn't have a spirit people would automatically assume they're playable

 

[Idon]

Alright, guys it's that time of the month again; time to make more senseless lists to bide our time until 12/7.
What are your guys' personal picks for 3rd party DLC?

Here's mine:
1. Atlus/Sega: Demi-fiend (or any other SMT protagonist)
2. Id Software/Bethesda: Doomguy
3. Koei Techmo: Ryu Hayabusa (Classic blue alt)
4. Capcom: Chris Redfield (Leon alt)
5. Bandai Namco: Nightmare (Siegfried alt)
6. Indie/Nicalis: Quote (Curly Brace alt)
7. Capcom: Dante (This is a weird one, but Trish alt)
8. Ubisoft: Rayman
9. Microsoft: Banjo + Kazooie
10. Naughty Dog: Crash

 

[monadoboy]

I legit expect Elma.

No spirit seen when we saw all of Xenoblade 2
No Xenoblade X music or whatever yet.

I'm feeling Elma.

Maybe, hopefully, they're waiting on Monolithsoft finally porting X to Switch

 

[StarLight42]

Calling it now, the final DLC character will be a Bayonetta level of unhype reveal

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

My question on Elma if she's in though is why is she of all characters DLC?

Like, Elma strikes me much more as base roster instead of DLC. They could've moved someone like K. Rool or Simon to DLC and it would make more sense in my opinion.

Because its #AllAboutElma!

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Spoiler: post

Lots of flaws here.

Firstly, 80% of Switch owners will not be buying Ultimate. Here's the percentages of copies of Smash to the total sales of its respective console:

64: 5.5mil games / 33mil consoles = 17%​

Melee: 7.4mil / 21.7mil = 27%​

Brawl: 13.3mil / 101.6mil = 13%​

For 3DS: 9.2mil / 73.5mil = 12%​

For Wii U: 5.3mil / 13.6mil = 39%​

None of the previous Smash games broke 40%, and only two of them broke 20%-- one of which was the only Smash to be released near the launch of the console, significantly boosting its lifetime sales due to lack of competition at release. To assume that this game will suddenly more than double the series's highest point and nearly quadruple its average is bonkers.

Secondly, you're assuming that they will make $60 on every sale. Also incorrect. This is assuming that every customer will pay $60 for the game and doesn't account for sales and eventual price drops, and it doesn't account for manufacturing and shipping costs, retailer cuts and other importing fees and taxes that get taken out of the final sale's total before entering Nintendo's pocket.

Lastly, your $960,000,000 figure in this hypothetical scenario would not be Nintendo's profit. Gross sales do not factor in the aforementioned costs of selling, but it also doesn't factor in the budget for the game's creation that needs to be subtracted as well. Salaries for the whole staff, marketing expenses, things like that.

Smash Bros. will undoubtedly make Nintendo money, and plenty of it. That's why they're banking on it as their big 2018 release. But it pales in comparison to Star Wars, since you brought that up, and even before that, it pales in comparison to Mario and Pokemon. Not a single Smash game has reached the top fifty highest selling games of all time, a list that includes Wii Fit, PUBG, Minecraft, every CoD since Modern Warfare, Terraria, Brain Age and ****ing Kinect Adventures.

Seriously, just enjoy the joke. There's no reason to do your business school homework on Smashboards.

 

[Honest Slug]

At this point I'm surely not going to pay the money for the season pass until I know exactly what characters I'm getting.

For all I know the final characters could be Wii U Gamepad, Sans, Goku, Donald Trump and Pink Gold Peach.

The fact that all the the DLC was planned beforehand basically deconfirms any character already in the game in some form. So the dream is completely dead for Isaac, Geno and Waluigi.

I was never expecting Kencineroar to be the highlight of the direct

 

[Will]

Name a prediction that Spawn Wave has gotten wrong as of late relating to Smash Bros.?

Pac-Man was revealed in a closed-doors presentation for Smash Bros, same thing with Wii Fit Trainer, who was revealed on the show floor of E3. Neither were in a Nintendo Direct showcase or revealed for their anniversary. Additionally, while not a character reveal, Nintendo did reveal a Nintendo Direct at EVO this year.

There is precedence for this.

You confused what I meant.
Neither of those were non-Nintendo based showcases where Nintendo themselves was presenting it. A third party doesn't do the reveal for them.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

"Steve's a lock now"

We just saw Spirits, where characters can still be represented
The Minecraft content just being a Steve/Creeper Spirit is NOT a stretch

Who're you kidding, you and I both know it's almost certainly gonna be playable fighter and a stage.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Fun fact, I made a typo one time adding Elma to my wishlist and called her Emma, so thats where all these cool # come from lol

 

[The DanMan051]

DLC is already decided.

I've used this post like 6 times today lol.

I don't think that has anything to do with DLC, but with the base roster; "We decided on which fighters to include when we started planning." refers to the fact that fighters are decided at one of the earliest points in development (really, the earliest-- the initial project plan). It makes no sense for them to have set-in stone plans for DLC characters releasing next year over two years ago.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Well, time for some direct thoughts, I guess...

That direct..... it was..... i guess kinda.... okay, I cant be positive. That direct was pure trash. Absolute horse****. I waited months for THIS? I want the 40 minutes of my life I spent watching that back.

Ken, while he was basically a lock, and thus wasn't surprising, was still about the only bright spot for me; after all, I like playing Ryu, and I like Ken, and it's nice to see Ryu share this adventure with his training buddy/friendly rival. Better yet, he really feels like Ken; you can tell Sakurai knows his Street Fighter.

Everything else was ****. Incineroar was one of the last people I ever would have wanted in Smash (but not to the point where I'd skip out on the game for him, and for what it's worth, Sakurai definitely nailed his wrestler 'tude), Spirits mode sucks and just appears to be Smash Tour 2.0 (I WAS JOKING WHEN I SAID "Watch this be Smash Tour 2.0", you know), and the Assist Trophy section..... good ****ing god. After ALL that waiting, Shadow and Isaac were still just ****ing assists. That's not the part that really bummed me out, it's the fact that they, along with many other fan favorites that got snubbed, were held off for this ****ing long, giving their fans so much ****ing hope, only to have it ripped apart from their ****ing hands right at the ****ing endgame AND destroying their chances of being DLC. There's literally no ****ing reason they couldn't have been shown off in the earlier directs; that would have been infinitely less crushing, but noo, they had to do the **** move. THAT'S how you build hype, get ****** hopeful for their most wanted, then waiting til the end to go "lol, they ain't playable and they won't be DLC, yeet yeet." I feel especially bad for Skull Kid supporters; they didn't even get the dignity of having their character get deconfirmed as part of the Assist Trophy presentation; Skull Kid's deconfirmation was just casually dumped to the website as if it didn't ****ing matter. Magor douche move.

All that on it's own wouldn't have made me hate this game, and I'd still have probably played it and loved it. But then I moved on to the worst part of the Direct; the DLC section. I was still pretty bummed that none of my top 5 were in, and I was holding out some hope..... and then I saw Piranha Plant. Then I saw his splash screen. I didn't pay much attention to the rest of his reveal. I was mostly just standing there, slack-jawed, trying to comprehend what the hell just happened. When I finally got my thoughts back, I just thought, "Really. REALLY. REALLY. Are you ****ing kidding me? ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS RIGHT NOW?" THIS is our first DLC character? A basic mook from a Mario game, not even an actually important one like Goomba or Koopa, just one random Mario enemies out of dozens? REALLY! REALLY?! Is this some joke? Because it's not funny in the slightest. Instead of literally anybody else, they devoted resources to a character that literally nobody voted for. What a joke. What a ****ing joke. Say what you will about any of the fan favs that got shafted, but at least, y'know, they're not dime a dozen mooks and are actually important to the games they're in. This is the only character in Smash history that I felt was legitimately a waste of a slot, as I can't come up with a single justification for his inclusion.

My absoulte most wanted ever, Waluigi, was deemed unworthy thrice, but a ****ing Piranha Plant, just one of many, many basic enemies, is apparently perfectly worthy for Smash. So in other words, a Piranha Plant is a more worthy inclusion for Smash than Waluigi or literally any of the fan favorites that got snubbed. A Piranha Plant was apparently better than any of my most wanted, and was more deserving of valuable resources and dev time in a time when slots are so limited. That just hurts on a personal level. *sniff*

All in all, this direct felt like the ultimate middle finger to me. Is that petty? I know that's petty, but that's just how it felt. I learned, apparenly NONE of my favorite characters actually matter. So anyways, I am legitimately gonna cancel my preorder. I get Ultimate will still probably be a great game, but it just won't be one for me. I wish I could still enjoy it, but I won't be able to take my mind off the fact that a ****ING PIRANHA PLANT can be playable but Waluigi can't.

So to sum it up...

You won't get the game because of a plant?