Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kuon]

Based on the Rex mii costume and the Springman assist trophy, I except most of the DLC to be third party and characters from brand new Nintendo games, such as FE Three Houses. Especially since Rex and Springman seemed like the obvious picks for DLC

 

[MainJPW]

This person is a prophet.

I had a weird dream that I was at a smash tournament and none of the setups had DLC characters, but a piranha plant was a playable character so I played as him instead lol pic.twitter.com/I4SHkpSQln

— Dyla (@dyla_bell_sky) February 19, 2018

 

[UberMadman]

DO YOU SEE THIS FORWARD TILT HITBOX?

 

[kylexv]

DLC Hopes:

• Geno
• Bandanna Dee
• Dixie
• Tails

At this point, if I get even one of these 4, I'll be happy.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It’s a development screen so it doesn’t matter if it’s mirrored. I mean...those taunt poses are exactly the same and you can clearly make out his official portrait; NO coincidences here, mate.

I was always saying that leaked image was 100% real, lmao. Now everyone and Ryu can catch these hands:

would like to have a word with you.

If trophies weren't a reconfirmation before, why would spirits, which are even easier to incorporate since they use recycled art, be any different?

Mewtwo was a veteran of Smash when he got himself a trophy ten became dlc...the trophy thing only worked for him and I think Lucas (Roy no...though he probably did have a trophy before returning but can’t remember...Wolf/Young Link/IC/Ivy/Squirts nope...)

If the “Viridi and Captain Toad being apart of stages” thing didn’t work out in the end, neither will Spirits not being used to deconfirmed characters but still giving them a place in Smash

 

[FalconFire93]

If Piranha Plant can get in, then I’m gonna rally for Goomba, Shy Guy, Boo, and Koopa Troopa. I’m also going for Slime and Chocobo (if Square Enix is generous). I’m also hoping just maybe Sora at the VGAs if possible.

 

[Shadowknight1]

I am now dead.

No you're not.

 

[Kuon]

DO YOU SEE THIS FORWARD TILT HITBOX?

View attachment 174834

Oh yeah I saw that. Very nice

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Another thing I'd like to add to the whole "Geno vs. the World" debate is that in terms of fan demand, only K. Rool and Ridley had enough to be acknowledged for it. Ridley was a character that people requested for 18 years, since before Melee's release when all they had was the cinematic, and K. Rool had so much fan demand that Nintendo was taken by surprise at how much he had. Those two were the juggernauts of Smash Bros. fan requests, with all other characters far below them.

Therein falls Geno. He's popular, sure. He likely had a good ballot presence, but not as much as K. Rool, who was the focal point of the core Smash Bros. fanbase during the Ballot era. He may lack raw fan demand, but Sakurai likes him, so much so that he added Geno as a Mii costume. But the thing is, a Mii Costume is likely the best he's getting.

Sakurai has likely gone to Square Enix and asked for their permission to use Geno. I would say he's done it at least twice. Once for Brawl, and again for Sm4sh DLC. Hell, he likely went to them a third time when deciding the roster for Ultimate, and each time Square Enix said no. He won't make enough money, and he's an irrelevant character. The reason they said yes to the Mii costume was likely because it was another way to make money off of Smash Bros. fans without requiring any effort compared to Cloud, who's the main event.

Sakurai goes to them for Cloud? They recognize how much money he'd make, being the poster boy of Final Fantasy and a representation of Square Enix's biggest-middle-finger to Nintendo, and how much publicity they would get through his inclusion, so they give Sakurai permission to use him.

Geno lacks the raw popularity of K. Rool and Ridley, and for a company who seems more interested in the bottom line and promoting their brand than other companies in Smash, who show a bit of good will to Sakurai and Nintendo (Remember: Capcom let Nintendo ****ing murder Megaman in Ridley's reveal trailer).

Why add Geno when they could other characters, such as Sora or Lara Croft who would blow up the internet, or a Dragon Quest character that would cause Japan to miss work and school because it's that iconic of a series over there. If Geno were added, sure they'd get some coverage on gaming specific websites, and the core Smash fanbase would be pleased, but the wider fanbase would mostly react with confusion because Geno is, I hate to say it, a literal who.

We're in the DLC phase and ****ing Piranha Plant is our first DLC character. Popularity within the core fanbase has gone straight out the window, especially with conventionally popular fan characters (Isaac, Shadow, Rex & Pyra) being disconfirmed without a second thought. I believe we're going to be seeing widely popular characters for our DLC picks, and Geno just doesn't fall into that category.

Time for a Part 2. I was gonna add this to the main post, but it's more of a side point so it gets its own post.

Why would they make a Spirit for a character they're just going to put into the game? Before you say "but Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies in Sm4sh!" remember that they likely weren't planned before the game released unlike the first Fighters Pack.

I will swear to my grave that development on Mewtwo didn't start until after E3 2014 when the fanbase lit a collective fire under Sakurai's ass (in person, might I add) to get him added into the game. Look at Sakurai's statements before that and you'll see him underestimating Mewtwo's popularity.

Additionally, in December 2014 Mewtwo was nothing more than a 3D model. No animations or anything, just a working model. Development likely started in June 2014, and he released at the end of April in 2015. That's 10 months of development.

Now, you say that it takes over a year to develop a Smash Bros. character, but if Mewtwo was a rush job like I think he was, then 10 months is reasonable. I'm sure there's also a margin of error in Sakurai statements as well, so give or take one or two months with Sakurai's statement (anywhere from 10 - 14 months). At that point (June 2014) they'd added the Mewtwo trophy (and Lucas trophy assuming similar conditions for Lucas with the stipulation that they weren't rush jobs like Mewtwo and took a full year to develop). So, Mewtwo and Lucas are added as nods to their former appearances, but are later planned to be playable.

Call it mental gymnastics, but it makes sense to me.

Square Enix also has nothing to lose by letting Geno in as a spirit (which requires little to no effort and is a fun nod to the fans) and then letting a larger character be their DLC pick (which will make them lots of money).

 

[Cyn]

So I just got back. Won't go into too much but wow, the direct was pretty mix-y if I do say so myself.

Let's get to the bad stuff:

• Spirits Mode kinda overstayed its welcome/not as terrible as Smash Run, but I'm not entirely sure I'll go full one with the mode unless I have nothing else to do in Ultimate, but we'll get to one specific mode in a minute.
• Assists...assists....assists. Its not entirely a big deal for me atleast, but I feel sorry for anyone who experienced it/there's always next time/You can't please anyone you know.
• Some of the online portions of it are uninteresting to say the least/I'm not a big online person; pretty sure the online would suck anyway.

NOW FOR THE BIG JUICY PARTS:

• Ken & Incineroar had such an excellent trailer, and Incineroar looks absolutely hella fun to play as. I always go for the characters and what's their playstyle, and Incineroar delivers it!
• FUUUUUU- World of Light looks phenomenal!! The cutscene just looks so beautiful/almost damn near realistic. I MEAN LOOK AT PIT'S HAIR FOR GOD'S SAKE!!- ahem, sorry. Anyhow, a few bits of character interactions are great, vocals for the theme is beautiful and will be my choice of mode to go into after a few matches in Vs. and in Classic Mode; also my choice for unlocking all the characters if possible. Also...

EVERYONE DIES! Until Kirby saves the world again and everyone's alive again. YAY!

But the question is? Will Palutena's Guidance & Snake Codecs return? I dunno. We'll have to find out.

You forgot Piranha Plant.

 

[Luigi The President]

Y'all please just let Geno rest

It's done. He's over. People fought for over a decade now it's time to just let him rest.
No more debating. No more of that. He's not gonna be DLC, you know in your heart.

Just let my boy rest.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If Piranha Plant can get in, then I’m gonna rally for Goomba, Shy Guy, Boo, and Koopa Troopa. I’m also going for Slime and Chocobo (if Square Enix is generous). I’m also hoping just maybe Sora at the VGAs if possible.

Goomba/Koopa Combo...more op than combined

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

yes, isaac was a popular ballot choice...

just maybe.. he wasnt as popular as:
-Ice climbers
-Wolf
-Snake
-Krool
-Inklings
-Ridley
-Isabelle.

an early disconfirmation would have done wonders though...

I still tried my best to pull for the miracle.. Even knowing long ago how unlikely it was to come true, I just wanted to try.

 

[NineS]

So if he was planning the dlc that far back.. And so he adds Medusa as a trophy in Smash 4 with the intent of removing trophies and adding her to Ultimate.. We have yet to see her appear in Ultimate so Medusa dlc coming soon yeah?

Guy, you might as well make Medusa your PFP now.
You're officially "That Medusa guy."

but that's conspiracy theory level of theorizing, and that's saying something coming from me. i don't think kid icarus DLC is a priority for him. it's possible, though.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

No you're not.

Yes I am.

 

[drag0nscythe]

drag0nscythe You ****ing got us man LOL

I put my faith in the art. It was a pattern i could get behind. I am disappointed with the css. But overall, the game is what i was expecting.

Now, plant dlc was a massive surprise. And i love it.

Hoping geno, waddle dee, goemon and other fan favorites get dlc treatment. I do not think spirits are deconfirmation.

 

[Zinith]

I just realized...

If ****ing PIRANHA PLANT can get in, then there's nothing holding Kamek back!!!

 

[KingofKoopas]

This person is a prophet.

I had a weird dream that I was at a smash tournament and none of the setups had DLC characters, but a piranha plant was a playable character so I played as him instead lol pic.twitter.com/I4SHkpSQln

— Dyla (@dyla_bell_sky) February 19, 2018

****, wish i didnt delete my twitter i coulda asked them for lotto #s

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I wouldn't have even gone through ten sequels of Super Smash Brothers and have asked for or expected a Piranha Plant.

From a speculative standpoint, it raises questions of where the line is drawn and why not this generic enemy or another (there will be an incoming wave of support for various generic, iconic enemies I wager, lot of them as much of a claim to stake as the plant).

And most of all a part of me is mad that it isn't Paper Mario or Geno.

But damn is it clearly funner than a lot of the more respectable characters we've had and been getting. Like just compare it to the titular protagonist of the series himself: Mario. Piranha blows up out of the Mushroom Kingdom in the move/style department, no question. This is peak levels of design.

Although I am surprised there is no fire ball attack, that's what I think of when I imagine a Piranha Plant, outside of just incessant biting. If such a move exists, it's a standard attack, and I would have figured it would have been featured, so it doesn't seem to be a thing. The footage might even show them all. Oh well though.

 

[Questionmark222]

This person is a prophet.

I had a weird dream that I was at a smash tournament and none of the setups had DLC characters, but a piranha plant was a playable character so I played as him instead lol pic.twitter.com/I4SHkpSQln

— Dyla (@dyla_bell_sky) February 19, 2018

Saw it already. I hope he'll have another dream where Rayman is in.

 

[Gyrom8]

DLC Predictions?
I don't expect any first parties tbh.

Rayman. I mean it's gotta be his time this time, right? Ubisoft's cross-overs with Nintendo IPs should have improved his odds a whole lot and the fact that Rabbid Peach is apparently a spirit shows that Ubisoft's at least on board for Ultimate.

Besides, I need a DLC character to root for (Skull Kid is RIP and Paper Mario is never happening, so third most wanted it is) and I agree that its probably going to be third party focused

 

[theromfather]

Proof that Spirits do NOT deconfirm someone:

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/howtoplay/spirits.html

You'll see K Rool floating on by

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Guy, you might as well make Medusa your PFP now.
You're officially "That Medusa guy."

but that's conspiracy theory level of theorizing, and that's saying something coming from me. i don't think kid icarus DLC is a priority for him. it's possible, though.

"That Medusa Guy" love it. ^_^

 

[KingofKoopas]

I put my faith in the art. It was a pattern i could get behind. I am disappointed with the css. But overall, the game is what i was expecting.

Now, plant dlc was a massive surprise. And i love it.

Hoping geno, waddle dee, goemon and other fan favorites get dlc treatment. I do not think spirits are deconfirmation.

In the art? or in amazon being ****in stupid enough to leak the final roster number..

 

[KingBroly]

Piranha Plant gets a Stage and Music as well. So we get 109 stages!

 

[Noipoi]

who the **** is audrey

The plant from Little shop of Horrors.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm still mainting my predictions of the DLC being:
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Eldeguard
Elma
Sora
Banjo and Kazooie
Erdrick
Dante

Five of these.

 

[Misery Brick]

Ok, but real talk, is Rex truly deconfirmed?

The Rex/Xenoblade portion Direct was the most "I'm sorry, hope this can be a compromise" we've ever gotten from Sakurai. Sakurai knew the demand for Rex and Rex got an entire segment and an official explanation in the Direct (not just some interview) on why he wasn't in. Rex's costume is also by far the most detailed Mii Costume, with an animated Gramps and vfx on Pyra's Blade. The Japanese fans are pissed that Rex isn't in, he was one of their most speculated newcomers.

The whole situation just seems odd. Sakurai loved XC2 and there was fan demand for Rex, but Rex & Pyra are Spirits, and Rex's Mii Costume seems like a "try again next time" thing like Inklings, Chrom, K. Rool, and Isabelle in Smash 4.

And what the hell is going on with DLC? DLC was apparently already planned with the project plan back in 2015? Why limit yourself like that if you aren't going to develop post-release anyway? Who will they have now that we

1. Can't have any new Switch characters
2. Can't have old fan favorites like Isaac, Geno, Dixie, etc. since many are now Assist Trophies and Spirits. (Assuming Spirits are deconfirmations)

Like, is DLC just going to be third-parties? Because that seems like the case with all of these Assist Trophy and Spirit deconfirmations. A Dragon Quest rep would be cool and I suspect people will still gun for Banjo, but what else is there?

Rex isn't deconfirmed, but he sure as hell isn't getting on the roster with this season pass.

Also, Spirits don't deconfirm characters. They are glorified trophies. It's a lot easier to add official art to the game, with some gameplay incentive, as opposed to making/importing hundreds of models.
Plus, if Spirits deconfirmed anybody, goodbye to any and every Nintendo character and every featured third party.

What it comes down to is characters that may have not made the cut for the game, or requested ones like Bandanna Dee, Impa, Celica, etc.
Or a wide array of third parties who haven't been added to the game yet.

We don't truly know at this point, after all we got Piranha Plant, so I'm not sure that we truly have a grasp on who were getting.

But I wouldn't be surprised if we do get a few third parties, but don't treat it like doom and gloom for Nintendo characters.

 

[staindgrey]

eh, if we take spirits as a deconfirmation then that pretty much deconfirms every possible first party character. There's no real reason to believe they are.

There's a reason to believe they're deconfirmed, but they are not, in fact, deconfirmed. There's a subtle difference.

They're aiming for representing as many characters as possible, and any bit of representation can be interpreted as the representation. We don't know how long ago the season pass characters were decided upon. We don't know if they would put spirits in for characters they know they're making later. We don't know if the spirits of already playable characters-- like K. Rool-- are attained in the same way as every other spirit because we haven't actually played the mode yet.

So if a character is shown as a spirit, it's not worth shrugging off. That could be the character's sole representation. It could also not. We don't know enough either way, but it's not insignificant.

 

[kylexv]

I just realized...

If ****ing PIRANHA PLANT can get in, then there's nothing holding Kamek back!!!

The Mushroom Kindom U stage likely still has him as a stage hazard.

Sorry bud.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Why are we so insistent on "deconfirming" characters this speculation period? As I've said before, I totally see how assist trophies and final smashes have logic to them, but people have been trying to use all sorts of theories and fan rules to deconfirm characters as well.

Music theory was the biggest offender of this. It was originally used to try and speculate who the newcomers would be, but so many people latched on to it trying to use it to deconfirm characters. Now it's spirits. There's no reason I see that a character can't be both a spirit and a fighter. We already have characters who are both. So what if it's "technically Meta Ridley"? That's still Ridley, and he even has a Meta Ridley alt.

And people will split hairs to do it to. "Mewtwo's trophy didn't count because he was a veteran", "music theory still applies because Dark Samus was just an echo". If you want to say "I think this character is less likely to be DLC" that's one thing, but it seems a bit presumptuous to assume that they have totally zero chance now. Even assist trophy characters I feel have a chance at getting revived if we get a round 2 of DLC, even if it's unlikely.

 

[Deleted member]

I legit expect Elma.

No spirit seen when we saw all of Xenoblade 2
No Xenoblade X music or whatever yet.

I'm feeling Elma.

I didn't really want Elma that much, but I want her in now just for the music.

 

[LetterO]

Can we talk about the pure detail on this guy? I love Incineroar's render. Can't wait to main him.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Actually...did we get anything for that gun model Sakurai bought that thing for? Doesn't look to have been used for anything far as I can tell

 

[fortun8]

would like to throw my hat into the ring about speculation over World of Light:

Spoiler: Large Image

everyone's all like "oh man tabuu is back!" which would be cool, but i have a theory that master core is either The Winged Thing in this case, or is connected to tabuu (who then turns out to be The Winged Thing). i don't know what kind of purpose master core had necessarily, but i thought this was pretty interesting! the smash wiki also notes that the master core's final attack involves "red waves"; i've never seen them myself, but that could be what we were seeing right before it did its thing! the image used here is from the 3ds version, so i have no clue what it looks like otherwise. could be interesting if tabuu/master core is throwing us for a loop!

 

[MaestroDavros]

3. Vergeben only got Simon right (and only partly)

Um, about that...

I apologize to the all seeing mystic Vergeben on my past self's behalf.

 

[Spatman]

I had to accept something today... (BLANK) is never getting in...

...Nope, not in Ultimate'S limited DLC or in Ultimate Plus Deluxe or in Smash Infinity Forever VR. For me it's Skull Kid. I have placed him as my #1 most-wanted newcomer since before Melee. After Melee, Brawl, and 4 left him in the cold, I got the hint. And yet this perfect storm still convinced me that he may have had a chance. I saw all the signs pointing towards his inclusion. Yet, it wasn't so. I could convince myself he'll come with DLC, but he won't. Out of only 5 characters left, Skull Kid just isn't important enough. It breaks my heart to see him deconfirmed. It also makes no sense to me why Sakurai waited until last minute to de-confirm some of the biggest fan favorites? Why not have shown off Skull Kid, Shadow, etc as assist trophies in the August direct? It just felt inevitable that we'd get Skull Kid and Shadow. Shadow - maybe one day. But Skull Kid...? Nope. Not happening. If he couldn't get into Ultimate, he's never getting in. DLC will be 5 high-profile 3rd party reps and even with a sequel or reissue, he faces tough odds against many other fan heavy-weights and has decreasing relevancy each passing year. Alas, today I officially let the dream die. I promise to myself to never allow myself to believe Skull Kid is in. May Skull Kid RIP.

Who is your character dream RIP? Who do you love that you only now can accept will never make it in for whatever reasons? Isaac? Chibi-Robo? Banjo? Geno? So many fan favorites have so much stiff competition going forward. Who will you never let yourself hype for again?

Dixie Kong, but still there's a super tiny bit of hope in my heart

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

DLC Hopes:

• Geno
• Bandanna Dee
• Dixie
• Tails

At this point, if I get even one of these 4, I'll be happy.

All i need is Geno and nothing else. Seriously, I would never ask for anything else ever agian

 

[Nekoo]

Actually...did we get anything for that gun model Sakurai bought that thing for? Doesn't look to have been used for anything far as I can tell

ELMA D L -

Ahem.

How about just using it for the Splatoon Characters?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I legit expect Elma.

No spirit seen when we saw all of Xenoblade 2
No Xenoblade X music or whatever yet.

I'm feeling Elma.

My question on Elma if she's in though is why is she of all characters DLC?

Like, Elma strikes me much more as base roster instead of DLC. They could've moved someone like K. Rool or Simon to DLC and it would make more sense in my opinion.