Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Schnee117]

If there was only one rabbid who would it be, has there been a statment on who the most popular rabbid is ?
Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach, Rabbid Luigi, Rabbid Yoshi ?

The one that has a YouTube channel

 

[Omega Tyrant]

The notion that Sakurai was developing Banjo for over two years without the rights secured is simply ludicrous, and I don't know how there are people here and on reddit that legitimate believe that could happen.

 

[StarLight42]

Not saying I don't believe you, but if a character takes a year to develop, then why did we get a new dlc character every couple of months back in smash 4? Shouldn't those characters have taken a year to develop? Or were they being developed before the game even came out?

Sakurai confirmed that DLC development did not start until Smash 3DS was out. That being said, Mewtwo may have been cut from the base roster.

 

[Paperchampion23]

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1056893419316961280

Just going to say that this PROVES that Nintendo can and would certainly lock a character from the Smash roster as an incentive to buy the online membership.

Mentioned this before but just want to get the exposure out there.


It's possible this leak is real and Incineroar is used as early DLC incentives when you buy switch online.

 

[KMDP]

Unless you have a source that Sakurai said he took 3 months (I 100% could have missed that) then it's simply not true nor believeable. The game was delayed 3 months but that doesn't mean Sonic was made in those 3 months.

I mean that doesn't even make sense there was a working build of him in a demo that November as well as a trailer of him in October before the delay was even announced.

So if you have a source I'll take this all back, my bad for not knowing. But the last thing I want is people spreading misinformation claiming that a smash character can be built from scratch in 3 months.

I think this is more a case of logic (whether that logic is fallacious or not is unknown).

Sakurai stated that Brawl was held back three months to put Sonic in the game, the implication being that SEGA finally caved and allowed Sonic to be put in around that time. If they didn't have permission to put him in the game until SEGA gave the go ahead, then there was probably no base work for them to use, meaning they made Sonic from scratch in approximately three months for Brawl.

Of course, if they did indeed make Sonic in three months from scratch, they were probably only able to because he was the (near-)sole focus of their development during that time and almost all resources were focused on getting him into the game. Which is what papagenos is arguing for Banjo: "during E3 2018, Sakurai was giving the go-ahead to put Banjo in Smash, and Sakurai rushed back to Japan and put pretty much his entire development team on the sole purpose of getting Banjo in ASAP since that time".

The implication of this train of thought is that characters only take a full year to make if you have to make other characters (and everything related to all the characters) at the same time, Smash 4's DLC characters don't really matter for the time-scale, because they were most-assured made with a much, much smaller team than Ultimate has; Smash 4 was post-development by that time and most of the team had moved on to other projects, only a skeleton crew was working on Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta (along with the stages and mii costumes that were also made around that time), this is just how game development works.

Does this clear up the argument for you?

Of course, I am not an expert, I'm only trying to explain what the argument is.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Not to burst your bubble, but Sonic was developed in 3 months

Sonic is a top propriety

 

[Deleted member]

Not saying I don't believe you, but if a character takes a year to develop, then why did we get a new dlc character every couple of months back in smash 4? Shouldn't those characters have taken a year to develop? Or were they being developed before the game even came out?

They were undoubtedly developed before release, just not completed.

 

[Pyra]

The notion that Sakurai was developing Banjo for over two years without the rights secured is simply ludicrous, and I don't know how there are people here and on reddit that legitimate believe that could happen.

Sorry, E3 2015.
Let's goooooo

 

[Schnee117]

The notion that Sakurai was developing Banjo for over two years without the rights secured is simply ludicrous, and I don't know how there are people here and on reddit that legitimate believe that could happen.

Because people forgo basic logic if it insinuates that their most wanted is playable
See: Ridley's Shadow in Smash 4

 

[StarLight42]

Also, if Banjo was decided BEFORE E3, something tells me that Phil Spencer would've flat out ignored that tweet asking him if he was still okay with letting Banjo in. Wouldn't that be against NDA? Or is it vague enough to pass?

 

[Pyra]

Because people forgo basic logic if it insinuates that their most wanted is playable
See: Ridley's Shadow in Smash 4

See: literally 90% of this entire conversation for the last 4 days.

 

[Daedulus]

Why would they be under an NDA with a company that they do not work with at all and never have worked with?

I'm talking about if they are under an NDA, we know that Marina were not under an NDA, they only talked about this because of the backlash they were getting, if the other firm does not reply to the backlash, it most likely that they are dong work with Namco or Nintendo

 

[sdpdude9]

I really wish Nintendo would just put out a direct and put this all to bed, one way or the other. Honestly, I think they made a bad business move to withhold so much information this close to release. They've opened themselves up to leaks and if this one isn't true, one will be soon.

It will be especially bad if this leak does turn out to be true because then they chose to withhold half the newcomers until a month before release and had a very long drought in between.

 

[Demon-oni]

I meant working on a character before you get the rights.

I mean, you can arguably work on a character, sure. The thing is if they don't manage to get the rights and the deal falls through, they have to 100% scrap it with no trace and lose out on a good chunk of development time for something that's considered a gamble.

I've made models before of known video game characters for skill building exercises, but I can't do anything with it unless I happen upon the rights to it through magic or something. Nothing promotional, commercial. Hell, can't even use it as a part of a portfolio. So I don't often see big game dev's taking that kind of time risk, but could be something Sakurai would consider since he seems adept at landing these 3rd party deals. That said, I'd still say on the side of no since it is risky shenanigans at the business level and even doing just 1 small thing wrong in handling it would be a heavy fine.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

My lord, is this...legal?

Genuinely asking here.

I think so, given that the Marvel Ultimate alliance team worked on Samus and Link as playable characters before getting the full go-ahead from Nintendo. (and then blew it by demoing them on the PS2 version of the game).

I'm not sure how the law works there but I think as long as a deal is on the cards, work is allowed to take place but as soon as it falls flat, it's off the the archives.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Not saying I don't believe you, but if a character takes a year to develop, then why did we get a new dlc character every couple of months back in smash 4? Shouldn't those characters have taken a year to develop? Or were they being developed before the game even came out?

Characters are obviously developed simultaneously, and judging by when their data was first in the game (1.0.6 for Cloud/Bayo, and 1.0.8 for Corrin), Cloud and Corrin took at absolute minimum eight months to develop, and Bayonetta took ten. Additionally corners were obviously cut for their development, with all of them starting development cloned off another character (datamining showing Cloud and Corrin were cloned off of Ike and Bayonetta off of Zero Suit Samus), and the very glaring balance issues they all have that shows their balance testing was clearly rushed (especially release Bayonetta). And that was with the development team focused entirely on them alongside a few stages and balance adjustments.

 

[Michele]

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1056893419316961280

Just going to say that this PROVES that Nintendo can and would certainly lock a character from the Smash roster as an incentive to buy the online membership.

Mentioned this before but just want to get the exposure out there.


It's possible this leak is real and Incineroar is used as early DLC incentives when you buy switch online.

I just hope that Smash DLC is like Mario Party/Tennis, that you can unlock Smash characters by playing online

 

[Pakky]

Well damn whose supposed to be the AT?

I hope not Mach Rider.

 

[Artorias]

I'm talking about if they are under an NDA, we know that Marina were not under an NDA, they only talked about this because of the backlash they were getting, if the other firm does not reply to the backlash, it most likely that they are dong work with Namco or Nintendo

ok, but you replied to my post where all i said was:
"But if we assume the leak is fake, they are aware of the situation and they aren't even working for nintendo on smash material there would be no reason for them to not come out and discredit this, landing possibly the biggest blow so far to the leak ", how does your explanation apply at all

 

[Opossum]

There's a very, very big misconception in this thread.

It wouldn't be illegal for work to be done on Banjo before getting permission. Similar things have been done before. Ubisoft integrated Star Fox into Starlink before getting permission. They also made a Mario model before getting approved for Mario and Rabbids.

Hell, Sakurai himself did it by making Smash about Nintendo characters before getting permission to. What this is is providing proof of concept and it is NOT illegal.

It's just a risky thing to do because depending on how in depth your proof of concept was, it may lead to wasted man hours,

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I just hope that Smash DLC is like Mario Party/Tennis, that you can unlock Smash characters by playing online

I'd rather prefer the SF5/Tekken 7 style for DLC characters

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Well damn whose supposed to be the AT?

I hope not Mach Rider.

I sadly think it's Mach Rider...
Or it could be Banjo

 

[Kuon]

Sakurai confirmed that DLC development did not start until Smash 3DS was out. That being said, Mewtwo may have been cut from the base roster.

If that's the case then how were they able to develop a new character every other month? Shouldn't it take much longer than that?

 

[CarbVan]

My lord, is this...legal?

Genuinely asking here.

It's happened with other games in the past. For instance, Ubisoft worked on Star Fox for Starlink without even getting permission from Nintendo. This kinda thing isn't the most common, but it definitely happens. It's certainly a possibility that they were working on Banjo before getting permission to sell Microsoft on how he'd be represented.

 

[Pyra]

I really wish Nintendo would just put out

Yeah, same man, I--

a direct

Oh. That too, I guess

I just hope that Smash DLC is like Mario Party/Tennis, that you can unlock Smash characters by playing online

I kinda just figured DLC would be free for Online subscribers (mostly cause I want that) but I wonder if they'll use the Online Tournament thing for official tournaments.

 

[StarLight42]

I sadly think it's Mach Rider...
Or it could be Banjo

Or you know, this random insider we've barely heard anything about aside from these sudden Smash leaks is wrong.

Regardless, at this point I think it's safe to say Isaac, Shadow, Ken, and maybe Chorus Kids are all safe

 

[Cosmic77]

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1056893419316961280

Just going to say that this PROVES that Nintendo can and would certainly lock a character from the Smash roster as an incentive to buy the online membership.

Mentioned this before but just want to get the exposure out there.


It's possible this leak is real and Incineroar is used as early DLC incentives when you buy switch online.

Regardless of whether or not he's an incentive for purchasing online, I still can't see Incineroar being DLC. I just can't picture a scenario where Incineroar gets dropped mid-development and all these insiders mysteriously feel more confident with him than they do with any other character on the banner, minus Ken.

 

[Fablemad]

Morning Grinchbros, how are we feeling about the leak on this fine day? Any development during the night?

Also wanted to say: there's no way it takes a year to develop a character, I think Sakurai kind of exagerated with that statement so I wouldn't take that as an argument against Papageno's theory.

 

[Kuon]

They were undoubtedly developed before release, just not completed.

But did Sakurai not confirm that dlc development did not start until after Smash 3DS was out?

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

This board for pretty much this past week:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Or you know, this random insider we've barely heard anything about aside from these sudden Smash leaks is wrong.

Regardless, at this point I think it's safe to say Isaac, Shadow, Ken, and maybe Chorus Kids are all safe

How is he wrong?
Oh wait, you're just one of those insider deniers, aren't you?

 

[Wambo]

Since everyone on here is apparently a big brain on how long it takes to develop a Smash character, pretty sure Sakurai stated during DLC that each character takes at least 6 months to complete.
>Meeting was at E3 in June
>Game releases in December

Oof

 

[Michele]

If that's the case then how were they able to develop a new character every other month? Shouldn't it take much longer than that?

And to add to that, Sakurai said that they were considering DLC at that time. DLC came after release.

 

[Chrollo.]

I meant working on a character before you get the rights.

Pretty sure, yeah. Handshake deals are legally binding so if Nintendo got verbally got the rights for Banjo before I’d assume they’d be allowed to work on him, but if Microsoft pulled out they’d have to stop due to no paper work. I’m not a Law Expert though so someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Reading the tweets made by Mystic, and it was about revealing that why banner look so fake because there's one of those characters that would be AT
I think it was shadow because he was AT in Smash 4 and one of Mystic's sources might confused him for AT which explains why banner was fake to him. (We didn't even see him as one of ATs in Ultimate.)

If anyone else came to this conclusion eariler, sorry for interrupt the conversation.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Morning Grinchbros, how are we feeling about the leak on this fine day? Any development during the night?

Also wanted to say: there's no way it takes a year to develop a character, I think Sakurai kind of exagerated with that statement so I wouldn't take that as an argument against Papageno's theory.

One source is believing that Isaac, Chorus Kids, and Ken are very likely in, and that the banner leak is fake because one of the other characters is actually an assist trophy...

 

[Untouch]

Sakurai said that the game was nearly complete in his Isabelle interview, that was September.
I have massive doubts he was still working on characters at that point.

 

[Pyra]

Since everyone on here is apparently a big brain on how long it takes to develop a Smash character, pretty sure Sakurai stated during DLC that each character takes at least 6 months to complete.
>Meeting was at E3 in June
>Game releases in December

Oof

The game would have to be completed quite a bit before it's release date, no? What with all the logistics that go into selling bajillions of copies of it, and not to mention testing the game.

Also, Sakurai mentioned that they take a year or more.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I might break a chair if Mystic's AT is Geno......

 

[Dee Dude]

the at could be skull kid, after all he’s hidden under mach rider