Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

This board for pretty much this past week:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Bandana Dee just there being loveless

 

[Paperchampion23]

Regardless of whether or not he's an incentive for purchasing online, I still can't see Incineroar being DLC. I just can't picture a scenario where Incineroar gets dropped mid-development and all these insiders mysteriously feel more confident with him than they do with any other character on the banner, minus Ken.

It's not about dropping him mid development. It's about withholding the character on purpose for incentive reasons. MANY publishers do it now, and we need to understand that it wouldn't be beneath Nintendo to do it. I could imagine Incineroar is completed, and because he's a very popular Pokemon character, he's being withheld to get the younger/pokemon audience to buy the online.

This happens all the time. It's not new. I also just linked or happening with Paratroopa, BY Nintendo

 

[Kuon]

Characters are obviously developed simultaneously, and judging by when their data was first in the game (1.0.6 for Cloud/Bayo, and 1.0.8 for Corrin), Cloud and Corrin took at absolute minimum eight months to develop, and Bayonetta took ten. Additionally corners were obviously cut for their development, with all of them starting development cloned off another character (datamining showing Cloud and Corrin were cloned off of Ike and Bayonetta off of Zero Suit Samus), and the very glaring balance issues they all have that shows their balance testing was clearly rushed (especially release Bayonetta). And that was with the development team focused entirely on them alongside a few stages and balance adjustments.

Okay, so each character did not take two months to develop, they took closer to a year.

 

[Nekoo]

Or you know, this random insider we've barely heard anything about aside from these sudden Smash leaks is wrong.

Regardless, at this point I think it's safe to say Isaac, Shadow, Ken, and maybe Chorus Kids are all safe

You know... it's not because YOU and others people didn't heard about them that it means others doesn't know their credibility

 

[Untouch]

I might break a chair if Mystic's AT is Geno......

Didn't he already say Geno is in?
I think he's talking about Mach RIder.

 

[StarLight42]

How is he wrong?
Oh wait, you're just one of those insider deniers, aren't you?

How is he right? We have no proof of that either.

And yes, sorry for being an "insider denier" after being let down multiple times by the lack of an international Mother 3 release and GC Virtual Console on Switch.

Regardless of where we stand on insiders, PapaGenos and MysticDistance have talked about a very similar pool of characters, so in the grand scheme of things I don't see why there's much to worry about.

Now, if some insider comes out and says box theory is true or something, THEN we'll have something to worry about.

 

[Heartz♥]

Morning Grinchbros, how are we feeling about the leak on this fine day? Any development during the night?

Also wanted to say: there's no way it takes a year to develop a character, I think Sakurai kind of exagerated with that statement so I wouldn't take that as an argument against Papageno's theory.

Lol exactly. All these new characters on top of old characters with new animations and moves, we would be waiting a helluva lot longer than we have.

 

[Artorias]

By the way, assuming the leak is legit, Sakurai two constant quotes that are brought up into the discussion could be explained this way:
- if Sakurai had not said to not expect many newcomers to be joining after the extreme blowout that was the E3 presentation, people would be thinking that the ULTIMATE smash bros that introduces characters that are """""easy to make"""" (they are not) with echo fighters, there would be tons people without very realistic expectations that would think this game would bring 20+ unique newcomers and 20+ echo fighters in the months coming
-if Sakurai didn't say that they would be slowing down on reveals, people would expect another character or even smash direct in october besides the november reveals

 

[Kuon]

And to add to that, Sakurai said that they were considering DLC at that time. DLC came after release.

They were considering dlc at what time? During development of the game?

 

[CrunchyCHEEZIT]

I might break a chair if Mystic's AT is Geno......

there's no way I can not be angry if this happens regardless of the final roster, i'm sorry. especially if the actual square enix character is another Final Fantasy character or something.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I don't really get the idea that they would rush banjo together in just a few months when DLC exists though, it makes far more sense to get the game out and then work on him right? unless he was planned and work was done on him beforehand which brings up the question of why microsoft rejected having banjo in the game back when it started development despite publicly claiming they were up for it

And on top of that why cut the pokemon character of all things? that's kind of a big deal and they would've had to work out all the details with the pokemon company and everything.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This board for pretty much this past week:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Not gonna lie, I was on the Bandanna Dee hype train, but thanks to the Grinch thing, I got too caught up on Incineroar and Chorus Kids to even care

 

[Daedulus]

ok, but you replied to my post where all i said was:
"But if we assume the leak is fake, they are aware of the situation and they aren't even working for nintendo on smash material there would be no reason for them to not come out and discredit this, landing possibly the biggest blow so far to the leak ", how does your explanation apply at all[

Sorry, I worded that wrong,

If they came out and said they weren't involved, then the leak loses half of its credibility, if they do not come out and we still keep fighting over team real of team fake, they are most likely on an NDA

 

[Gothitelle]

Why are people talking about a Hasbro Rep?

 

[FalconFire93]

What do ya guys think are the chances of a direct being on Tuesday? Cuz I got jury duty that day at 8:15 which is prime direct time. Maybe if I explain the situation to them they will understand..

I’d like for it be soon, but I’m waiting on the announcement from Nintendo.

Also, jury duty? That sucks, don’t ya just love adulting?

 

[Untouch]

Also Sonic was only added because he could have been rushed.
That's why his moveset is so bland, this really couldn't have been done with many other characters.

 

[Chrollo.]

Why are people talking about a Hasbro Rep?

Because we need Optimus Prime in Smash

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Why are people talking about a Hasbro Rep?

Because Mr.Monopoly would make a great rep for all the Capitalist mains from the bank.

 

[Pakky]

I sadly think it's Mach Rider...
Or it could be Banjo

What a high price to pay... Super shocked that Tails hasn't been brought up much.

Lloyd makes sense though.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1056893419316961280

Just going to say that this PROVES that Nintendo can and would certainly lock a character from the Smash roster as an incentive to buy the online membership.

Mentioned this before but just want to get the exposure out there.


It's possible this leak is real and Incineroar is used as early DLC incentives when you buy switch online.

Will Paratroopa not be like the other characters then? All of the other characters in Aces you could play in a tournament to unlock them early or wait a month and everyone would get them.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Also Sonic was only added because he could have been rushed.
That's why his moveset is so bland, this really isn't have been done with many other characters.

Melee Ganondorf: Hold my beer.

 

[Untouch]

Will Paratroopa not be like the other characters then? All of the other characters in Aces you could play in a tournament to unlock them early or wait a month and everyone would get them.

No, it works the same way here.
You just need online to join the tournaments now, that's the only reason why they mentioned it.

 

[Deleted member]

Because we need Optimus Prime in Smash

Optimus Prime, Snake, Simon, and Bomberman finally reunite after all these years.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I think this is more a case of logic (whether that logic is fallacious or not is unknown).

Sakurai stated that Brawl was held back three months to put Sonic in the game, the implication being that SEGA finally caved and allowed Sonic to be put in around that time. If they didn't have permission to put him in the game until SEGA gave the go ahead, then there was probably no base work for them to use, meaning they made Sonic from scratch in approximately three months for Brawl.

Of course, if they did indeed make Sonic in three months from scratch, they were probably only able to because he was the (near-)sole focus of their development during that time and almost all resources were focused on getting him into the game. Which is what @papagenos is arguing for Banjo: "during E3 2018, Sakurai was giving the go-ahead to put Banjo in Smash, and Sakurai rushed back to Japan and put pretty much his entire development team on the sole purpose of getting Banjo in ASAP since that time".

The implication of this train of thought is that characters only take a full year to make if you have to make other characters (and everything related to all the characters) at the same time, Smash 4's DLC characters don't really matter for the time-scale, because they were most-assured made with a much, much smaller team than Ultimate has; Smash 4 was post-development by that time and most of the team had moved on to other projects, only a skeleton crew was working on Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta (along with the stages and mii costumes that were also made around that time), this is just how game development works.

Does this clear up the argument for you?

Of course, I am not an expert, I'm only trying to explain what the argument is.

There is no implication here that Sonic was made in three months, Sakurai outright said he was added to the game in early 2007. And extra manpower doesn't really help get characters done faster; tasking 10 people to create and rig a character's model for example isn't going to get the job done faster than a couple people doing it, what the extra manpower achieves is the ability to create more content simultaneously. The reason why DLC has a smaller crew is because they're not creating a whole game's worth of content, they're just creating a few characters and stages plus some balance adjustments for patches, you don't need the whole development team for that. Banjo being added at E3 2018 and being in the base game is not possible.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Will Paratroopa not be like the other characters then? All of the other characters in Aces you could play in a tournament to unlock them early or wait a month and everyone would get them.

He probably will. I'm just specifying it could be done with Incineroar, hence why he may not be on the banner, at least at first. He'd then probably be available as payed DLC a month or 2 in.

 

[Wiziliz]

MY GOD the stress from not knowing if this leak is real has actually given me zits.
Also. Is anyone else actually surprised that Sakurai hasn't even considered Transformers and/or ponies for Smash yet, given the amazing relationship between Hasbro and Nintendo? I mean, look at Monopoly Gamer, that's a thing now and so far it's only Nintendo-based.

View attachment 173248
(Just bringing this up as part of the Hasbro-Rep discussion)

Bait? It would completely go against Smash to include characters not from video games.
"B-but there's games of ponies!"
My Little Pony didn't originate in video games.

 

[Chrollo.]

Also Sonic was only added because he could have been rushed.
That's why his moveset is so bland, this really couldn't have been done with many other characters.

I still think that’s a Sega decision tbh. I really feel like that if his moveset was a rush job, they would’ve changed it up in both 4 and Ultimate.

 

[FalcoXP]

Hi there,morning!

Just 6 more weeks and we can play some Smash Ultimate!

I cant wait!

What did I miss?

 

[Pyra]

I'm kind of more interested in whatever Sakurai's next Famitsu Column is going to be than the next direct.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

What a high price to pay... Super shocked that Tails hasn't been brought up much.

Lloyd makes sense though.

Tails would have to be a semi clone unlike Shadow, who can easily be an echo fighter...

 

[CannonStreak]

Hi there,morning!

Just 6 more weeks and we can play some Smash Ultimate!

I cant wait!

What did I miss?

You don’t want to know.

 

[Gyrom8]

Banjo would presumably come with a stage, music and other stuff - making it even less likely that he was a six-month rush job. C'mon, you can still believe Banjo is in the base game and not buy the whole 'he was only agreed at e3'. The lunch could have literally been about anything else: even 'hey guys, how's development on Banjo coming along?'

 

[Chrollo.]

Bait? It would completely go against Smash to include characters not from video games.
"B-but there's games of ponies!"
My Little Pony didn't originate in video games.

Sakurai openly admitted to considering James Bond for Melee lol I’m not saying a non-video video game rep is likely but Sakurai does whatever he wants

 

[Schnee117]

I'm kind of more interested in whatever Sakurai's next Famitsu Column is going to be than the next direct.

I got an exclusive from it:

Learn to be patient you ungrateful little ****s

 

[VGPhaze]

what if banjo IS an AT? They could have made that happen in the timeframe after E3.

That would be kinda dissapointing especially if we get all of the other leaked characters lol

 

[Deleted member]

Bait? It would completely go against Smash to include characters not from video games.
"B-but there's games of ponies!"
My Little Pony didn't originate in video games.

Well, there are a lot of actually possible non-video game reps, Mickey and Goku (fite me) being the obvious most likely picks.
Also Zoe is not a pony.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Hi there,morning!

Just 6 more weeks and we can play some Smash Ultimate!

I cant wait!

What did I miss?

A source is claiming that despite Isaac, Chorus Kids, and Ken being likely, one of the other banner characters seems to be an assist, making the leak fake....

 

[Kuon]

Didn't he already say Geno is in?
I think he's talking about Mach RIder.

Then I might break a chair if Mach Rider is the assist trophy (not really, but Mach Rider is my most wanted from this leak, so I don't want him/her to be an assist trophy)

 

[Nekoo]

I'm kind of more interested in whatever Sakurai's next Famitsu Column is going to be than the next direct.

Watch him talk about going to watch the Grinch soon.

 

[Wiziliz]

Hi there,morning!

Just 6 more weeks and we can play some Smash Ultimate!

I cant wait!

What did I miss?

https://twitter.com/grantkirkhope/status/1056018619807584256?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Banjo-Kazooie composer doubts the leak.
Hopefully this means nothing, as Microsoft owns the rights to the music, not him.