Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[JLU51306]

As of writing this, I'm still reading page 6440, but this has been on my mind the last day or so;

This mural artwork was revealed during E3, and every new character announcement leads to an updated banner. Sakurai said we will know the full roster before release day, so logic dictates that a wholly complete mural will eventually be available, and is likely to be leaked. This is circumstantial and conjecture on my end, but is this not the exact scenario we find ourselves in?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think it can work the other way around, and that it might be how they, or at least some of them, not to generalize, act towards us, and how that affects those who don't act that way? Sure, they may be victims in a way, BUT we can be victimized by them as well, especially if they act smug and like jerks. So you see, it can work both ways. And I don't think every Smash fans despises insiders. I don't despise them. I just don't like how some of them act.

Okay, but if it works both ways, then how about we be the better people?

Literally just ignore **** like this. Say "wow that's mean" and move on. That's not what's happening right now. While every Smash fan may not despise insiders, there's either a large enough or loud enough crowd that does, and that is what's causing all of this toxicity. Let's deal with that, something within our fanbase that can be dealt with, instead of trying to fight these supposed 'smug insider jerks.'

The moment you lash out and condemn these people is the moment that you lose the victim card you want to play right now.

As of writing this, I'm still reading page 6440, but this has been on my mind the last day or so;

This mural artwork was revealed during E3, and every new character announcement leads to an updated banner. Sakurai said we will know the full roster before release day, so logic dictates that a wholly complete mural will eventually be available, and is likely to be leaked. This is circumstantial and conjecture on my end, but is this not the exact scenario we find ourselves in?

Yes. The only question is if this supposedly real banner true, or false?

Hence, the week long debate.

 

[doomedtacox]

Well if he's wrong it calls into question if he actually ever did have a source or just made that up to perpetuate and help substantiate his beliefs. Will the source be identified if wrong? How does a guy at microsoft know the rest of the roster with banjo?

I don't think any of his viewers think he's that kind of person so it doesn't matter. No idea if the source will be identified. As the for Microsoft rep, he says they've "heard" about the rest of the characters, so they gave him a very vague answer.

Regardless, he's not saying this is 100% true, he's just saying it's his opinion given what his source has said and the nature of the leak itself. He isn't claiming to objectively know if he's right or wrong or to be an insider himself.

 

[Arcanir]

I mean, it even happened to a moderator here when Tower of Smash was a thing back in Smash Wii U. They spoke with a credible source that Ridley was in the game. We all know how that turned out.

I remember that, it was pretty rough to see as not only did he tell him lies, the guy duped him by showing himself playing footage of the game. That means someone deliberately went out of their way to fool him so that they can play games with him, and that was awful to hear considering he completely meant well and was only trying to be as helpful as he always was during the pre-release era.

Granted, that's not to say PapaGenos is going through the same thing, but it does show that people can and will go out of their way to mess with others just for their own selfish enjoyment. You always have to be careful with what you hear, especially on the internet.

 

[Vycoul]

I'm not out for "Insider" blood or anything, but that Steve guy on ResetEra is a jerk. (I'd use MUCH stronger language, but I'm not sure what is and isn't allowed here. or if censors are needed)

First he says this:
"The only consistent thing about PapaGenos's videos is that he's been wrong about Smash. In all of them."

Then when asked about other examples of PapaGeno's being wrong says this:
"I had never heard of his channel before this, so no, I can't. But I can tell you he's definitely wrong, and I believe him when he claims his info comes from sources. I just think the sources he's got are pulling the wool over his eyes and I feel bad that he's being targeted that way."

Practically smearing a new channel like that is really freaking low.

 

[ErenJager]

Source? If it's true, that's so ridiculously petty.

Yeah it's petty but he is technically profiting off someone else's intellectual property without permission.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

An insider at ERA is kind of talking crap about him already. Another user who seemed pretty neutral sort of defended papageno and then got called out for "bullying" an insider. I really can't stand the atmosphere over there.

Yea I saw some of the comments there and the atmosphere there was heading into some toxic territory..just hope papagenos don’t get harassed by smash fans or even the insiders

 

[Noipoi]

Hey guys, guessing we're still not much of anywhere with a confirmation or debunk?

The new theory is that the leak is real and Incineroar is day one dlc, explaining why insiders are so adamant about him.

 

[N3ON]

Hey guys, guessing we're still not much of anywhere with a confirmation or debunk?

In all likelihood and at this rate, only the Direct will bring us closure. So still probably another ~two weeks of this. :/

 

[Shroob]

I remember that, it was pretty rough to see as not only did he tell him lies, the guy duped him by showing himself playing footage of the game. That means someone deliberately went out of their way to fool him so that they can play games with him, and that was awful to hear considering he completely meant well and was only trying to be as helpful as he always was during the pre-release era.

Granted, that's not to say PapaGenos is going through the same thing, but it does show that people can and will go out of their way to mess with others just for their own selfish enjoyment. You always have to be careful with what you hear, especially on the internet.

I always did wonder how amazing of a Brawl hack that must have been to fool someone.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Well, about the insiders, at least most of us don't go over there to the insiders themselves to bother them directly, right, guys? I could be wrong, but I have not seen anyone do that lately.

In the spirit of fairness, hostility has been going all around. No "side" is free of guilt, but the important thing is less "who started it" and moreso how we're going to come together and move forward from it.

 

[doomedtacox]

There's always a fine print that says the the stuff is DLC, or that it's marketed as such.


What you're suggesting is that Incineroar would be marketed alongside the rest of the base roster, which would, in turn, make people think he WAS part of the base roster, only to unlock everything, no Incineroar, and then find out "Oh, btw, extra 5.99 for him plz."



League of Legend skins are always explicitly said to be paid purchases in their marketing, and DLC for other games as well.

No league definitely doesn't all the time, I've seen adds on websites that show characters with skins on and nowhere on the add does it say you have to pay for that skin.

 

[Jigglymaster]

And people wonder why I wish this leak never surfaced. Out of the entire time we've been waiting for Smash news, this has been the absolute worst. I hope the person who leaked this, be it fake or true, is happy with what they did. It's ruining everything.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Smash fandom, at the moment:

The moment man devoured the fruit of knowledge, he sealed his fate... Entrusting his future to the leaks, man clings to a dim hope.

The Arcana Smash Direct is the means by which all is revealed

(Using this post to also post this:

)

 

[gloop898]

Snake does use some realistic firearms, and Simon has religious imagery. That's not to mention some of the more suggestive characters like Bayonetta. Even things that seem innocuous could cause concern for IP holders.

Even Smash has questionable content that third parties want to be aware of before they let their baby walk on in.

Yeah that does make sense, but I still think they would give them the entire roster. Like, they would give them the most questionable content and other third parties, but i don't know if they'd give them everybody. Like Isaac, Mach Rider, and Chorus Kids are all Nintendo owned, but they don't seem extremely questionable. But as you've said, it's possible they would give them the entire roster. Still we should keep this in mind.
People are getting mad and insiders for denying the leak, but this is just another insider confirming the leak and we don't even know who it is. As always we should take everything not from Nintendo themselves with a grain of salt, no matter how convincing it is.

 

[Deleted member]

I just wanna talk about video games. I dunno why some guys take it so seriously...

Seriously.

These are just characters and rumors. It's fine to feel disappointment over not seeing your favorites, but there is such a thing as going to far. It's good to keep these things in perspective IMO.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I kind of feel like this point the grinch leak has devolved more into class warfare and people trying to keep the status quo rather than any merits for or against it.

 

[DraginHikari]

Pretty much this. I'm beginning to wonder if things will ever get better. We're too obsessed with getting a sick burn to remember that there are human beings on the other side of the screen.

The problem with the internet is though it provides a lot of information it is also very easy to get caught up in Echo Chambers because you can easily find people that already agree with you and avoid things that might challenge their views. Internet algorithms have this bad habit of showing us things we already look at and provide us with similar stories and articles. It makes really easy to disregard nuance and make everything a zero sum game.

 

[TheCJBrine]

That Steve guy on ResetEra is a jerk. (I'd use MUCH stronger language, but I'm not sure what is and isn't allowed here. or if censors are needed)

First he says this:
"The only consistent thing about PapaGenos's videos is that he's been wrong about Smash. In all of them."

Then when asked about other examples of PapaGeno's being wrong says this:
"I had never heard of his channel before this, so no, I can't. But I can tell you he's definitely wrong, and I believe him when he claims his info comes from sources. I just think the sources he's got are pulling the wool over his eyes and I feel bad that he's being targeted that way."

Practically smearing a new channel like that is really freaking low.

"He's wrong in all of his videos, but I've never heard of him until now."

This is annoying to read.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

So apparently youtubers are contacting square enix to flag papa geno for copy right infringement on the forest maze opening?

Smash community civil war continues.

Geez Louise

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands.

 

[Noipoi]

And people wonder why I wish this leak never surfaced. Out of the entire time we've been waiting for Smash news, this has been the absolute worst. I hope the person who leaked this, be it fake or true, is happy with what they did. It's ruining everything.

It was pretty fun for a while...

 

[Pakky]

Headcanon based on next to nothing

Samus and Mach are a couple with a small house in the countryside of the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

[Honest Slug]

And people wonder why I wish this leak never surfaced. Out of the entire time we've been waiting for Smash news, this has been the absolute worst. I hope the person who leaked this, be it fake or true, is happy with what they did. It's ruining everything.

I'll take this over the box theory any day.

Even with some toxicity at least there's a little substance in the debate now.

 

[StarLight42]

I just wanna talk about video games. I dunno why some guys take it so seriously...

It's not US taking it seriously. It's US being bewildered by this constant "leak battle" between the insiders, the YouTubers, and the Grinch. I'm sure none of us actually want to be part of this controversy, we just feel strongly about the leak in one way or another.

 

[Shroob]

No league definitely doesn't all the time, I've seen adds on websites that show characters with skins on and nowhere on the add does it say you have to pay for that skin.

To be fair, League is also completely free to play.



If someone pops down 60 bucks after seeing Incineroar and then "Wait, he's DLC? And he wasn't marketed as such?!" then yes, that's grounds to sue. Hell, it would not surprise me if there haven't been countless legal cases where "Something wasn't advertised as being DLC so my client bought the base product thinking it was in it.'

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Honestly grow some thicker skin people, so papa has some critics, this is his first outing as someone with "insider information", he's going to get dogged by others. Steve's statements are a lot tammer than you're making them out to be

 

[CannonStreak]

Okay, but if it works both ways, then how about we be the better people?

Literally just ignore **** like this. Say "wow that's mean" and move on. That's not what's happening right now. While every Smash fan may not despise insiders, there's either a large enough or loud enough crowd that does, and that is what's causing all of this toxicity.

The moment you lash out and condemn these people is the moment that you lose the victim card you want to play right now.

Yes. The only question is if this supposedly real banner true, or false?

Hence, the week long debate.

I am pretty sure some of the insiders have said things that have upset the fans, like "I can't believe you believe in this" or otherwise acting arrogant in how they say things. Though maybe not all insiders do that, the ones who do do give the rest a bad reputation, which doesn't help. I will agree that those Smash fans who bother the insiders like that are not any better, but they are not solely responsible for all this, ya know. Some of those Smash fans did it for a reason, which came from the rudeness of the insiders. The Smash fans' actions may not be acceptable, but they are not entirely at fault here.

 

[gloop898]

I'm not out for "Insider" blood or anything, but that Steve guy on ResetEra is a jerk. (I'd use MUCH stronger language, but I'm not sure what is and isn't allowed here. or if censors are needed)

First he says this:
"The only consistent thing about PapaGenos's videos is that he's been wrong about Smash. In all of them."

Then when asked about other examples of PapaGeno's being wrong says this:
"I had never heard of his channel before this, so no, I can't. But I can tell you he's definitely wrong, and I believe him when he claims his info comes from sources. I just think the sources he's got are pulling the wool over his eyes and I feel bad that he's being targeted that way."

Practically smearing a new channel like that is really freaking low.

I don't think he's really smearing the channel. Everything seems more hostile in text then it really is. I think he's just stating that PapaGeno is wrong and not trying to be mean.

 

[Jetsurge]

And people wonder why I wish this leak never surfaced. Out of the entire time we've been waiting for Smash news, this has been the absolute worst. I hope the person who leaked this, be it fake or true, is happy with what they did. It's ruining everything.

I'm glad it leaked. It's been really entertaining and way better than talking about the boring box theory.

 

[Confirmation]

Not gonna mince words, I'm kind of ticked that there were insiders who knew there were more characters but let us suffer in Box Hell.

 

[Shroob]

I kind of feel like this point the grinch leak has devolved more into class warfare and people trying to keep the status quo rather than any merits for or against it.

Kinda reflects the US in a way

 

[Dee Dude]

Is this Smash talk or gaming politics?

I can’t tell anymore, it’s even harder to try to find some lighthearted fun by playing games and asking fun questions when it’ll just get flooded by more insider drama and debates.

Can we have the stupid Direct already?

 

[Honest Slug]

Honestly grow some thicker skin people, so papa has some critics, this is his first outing as someone with "insider information", he's going to get dogged by others. Steve's statements are a lot tammer than you're making them out to be

The guy didn't even watch his videos, but still said he's consistently wrong. That isn't defendable, he's smearing the reputation of someone he doesn't know.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Yeah that does make sense, but I still think they would give them the entire roster. Like, they would give them the most questionable content and other third parties, but i don't know if they'd give them everybody. Like Isaac, Mach Rider, and Chorus Kids are all Nintendo owned, but they don't seem extremely questionable. But as you've said, it's possible they would give them the entire roster. Still we should keep this in mind.
People are getting mad and insiders for denying the leak, but this is just another insider confirming the leak and we don't even know who it is. As always we should take everything not from Nintendo themselves with a grain of salt, no matter how convincing it is.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head. It's impossible to know because we weren't there. All I can do is share my insight, because I've been around some of this stuff before. Some companies might demand to know everything, some might be very lenient, every negotiation is its own animal so it's impossible to say anything for certain.

The only source we can trust 100% is Nintendo, aside from that we just have to go with what makes the most sense to us.

 

[Plumstar]

Jokes on you, I've got TONS of ideas for stages!

I watched the video again and I just noticed that Scott got both the BOTW Great Plateau stage and stage morph right. Why didn't we go to Scott for predictions/leaks the first time?! It's clear he knows a lot of things we don't.
Edit: 'd

 

[DraginHikari]

I kind of feel like this point the grinch leak has devolved more into class warfare and people trying to keep the status quo rather than any merits for or against it.

In my opinion we have a couple of different fallacies going on with some people in this discussion that are very loud. We have an appeal to authority through those taking the Insiders entirely at their word. On the Grinch Leak we have quite a bit of Confirmation Bias occurring due to the much more desirable result.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah tbh people are reacting this way to Steve's comments because papagenos is a member here. If he was talking about a GameFAQs user or something, no one would care. Now people are ****ting on resetera as a whole (and while they may or may not deserve it, only Steve's comments are pertinent here).

That's also tribalism.

 

[osby]

Kinda reflects the US in a way

Kinda reflects pretty much everywhere

 

[Confirmation]

Kinda reflects the US in a way

I can barely stomach Grinch politics, let's not bring actual politics in here.

 

[HeroOfClocktown]

Been away for a while... does anyone here/any insider know/have an idea of when we are expecting the next Nintendo/Smash direct?