Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'd also like to point out that this comment (quoted below) is something I suggested and got flak for it when it's a definite possibility.

I don't think he's a bad person, I'm simply saying he's been wrong about Smash across the board. In all honesty I feel bad for him, I don't think he's lying, but that he's instead been duped by fake "sources" using him to spread lies.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Wait.


Wait, it just dawned on me.


There's a VERY obvious reason as to why Incineroar wouldn't be on the Grinch banner leak's banner.


That's because that's being used to advertise the game.


Incineroar in this case would be DLC.


That's false advertising to show Incineroar along with the other base-game characters when he's not in there.



The Grinch banner =/= the website's banner.

Well now you got me thinking...Back in the August Direct I remember not only was the Spirits mode blurred out, but also a section to the right of the menu screen on the dashboard. I could be wrong but what if they were already preparing for more content and they blurred out a possible DLC shop icon. That would make sense why Incineroar rumors starting popping up as Incineroar around August since DLC was already established as the plan as early as the summer. He would be one of the first round of promotional Smash newcomers for DLC similar to Mewtwo.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

What's it matter if he does or doesn't?

At this point it seems like people are taking sides based solely on whether they want the characters and whoever's supporting or not supporting it instead of, you know, the actual evidence.

I honestly feel like I'm in America during the height of the Red Scare with McCarthyism, except replace "Russian" with "Insider."

"They're a dirty Russian Insider! There's no way we can trust them!"

Dude... you don't need to defend every single "insider"

 

[osby]

Yoshi with literally anyone else:

Yoshi: "YOSHI!!!"
Literally anyone else: *I'm scared all of a sudden*

A minority: "Pff, what a harmless looking, silly dino"- *immediate regret*

 

[TheBazry64]

"Insiders" be like: Well the leak is fake i know it but can't tell you why! Trust me
-> Stop criticising me i KNOW things
-> Team real are trump supporters
*Deletes twitter*
-> Ouch team real gets so defensive everytime

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So apparently youtubers are contacting square enix to flag papa geno for copy right infringement on the forest maze opening?

Smash community civil war continues.

That's kind of stupid. WTF is going on in the Smash community right now?

 

[Pakky]

Bayonetta with Banjo-Kazooie:

Might as well show these two what it's like to deal with a real witch.

Dark Pit with Samus:

I heard a lot about you but I guess you're just Federation's hound dog.

Rosalina with Geno:

Do you... have we ever met? On somewhere far from here?

Mewtwo with pretty much everyone:

*cackles and turns around himself*

Mewtwo: What is that noise

Inceniroar: Heard you talking a lot mess

Mewtwo: Begone fool... Wait its not working aren't you fighting...

*Is bear tackled and placed on shoulded

Inceniroar: UTURN!

Mewtwo: Wait!

*His version of Uturn just the muscle buster move from wrestling*

 

[Kaeltor]

So apparently youtubers are contacting square enix to flag papa geno for copy right infringement on the forest maze opening?

Smash community civil war continues.

This is so weird to me, because Papageno seems like a super chill dude. I don't understand how anyone could have beef with him.

 

[StrawHatX]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-206#post-14290490

Well that is rude

Edit: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-206#post-14290726

Obviously not all “insiders” are like this, but when some say stuff like this and then wonder why the Smash community is slamming them, I can’t help wonder if they’re that dense.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I find it interesting the resetera insider is saying he THINKS papa is being duped and is largely basing that sentiment off if papa being wrong in the past.

He doesn't seem to be basing it off of his own info, he just doesn't trust papa

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Let's not get too dramatic here.

It's not dramatic at all; it's true. The large aversion to insiders, who have proven track records for reporting insider information, is something I've never seen before outside of partisan politics and YouTube drama.

 

[CosmicQuark]

What's it matter if he does or doesn't?

At this point it seems like people are taking sides based solely on whether they want the characters and whoever's supporting or not supporting it instead of, you know, the actual evidence.

I honestly feel like I'm in America during the height of the Red Scare with McCarthyism, except replace "Russian" with "Insider."

"They're a dirty Russian Insider! There's no way we can trust them!"

That's very disappointing, as you're making the same sweeping generalizations that's making me pissed off at the ResetERA insiders. If you don't think the evidence is good, fine, but to pretend it doesn't exist or to pretend that all of us just want our characters (instead of, ya know, trying to be skeptical of it all to avoid being disappointed) is missing the point. Some people, yes, want their character in and are way too certain of it's authenticity. But portraying that as the only reason is insulting.

 

[doomedtacox]

I mean, if someone showed you a line up of characters, only to then go home and after you boot up the game and see "Unlock Pikachu now for only 4.99", then yes, that would be considered false advertising, especially, ESPECIALLY if said piece of media did not mention at ALL that the game had in-game purchases or that "Some items here must first be unlocked through real world money transactions"


This is grounds to sue if none of your advertising mentions paid DLC.

But the banner doesn't even state those characters are playable in the first place. It's just our side knowledge that we know that they are. If I showed the banner to my Mom she probably wouldn't think those are all of the characters you can play as. I feel like we need someone with a law degree or something on this subject tbh.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I'd also like to point out that this comment (quoted below) is something I suggested and got flak for it when it's a definite possibility.

It's not what he's saying, it's how he's saying it. He's painting papagenos to look like LaxChris, when that's not the case at all. And even if he's right that PG is misinformed, what does it hurt? It's not like he's chasing youtube dollars.

It's just a needlessly harsh dismissal of someone who's done nothing to him other than make videos on another corner of the internet that are potentially inaccurate.

 

[mbvswb]

I'd also like to point out that this comment (quoted below) is something I suggested and got flak for it when it's a definite possibility.

What a **** head

 

[ReeseBalaski]

The problem with this whole situation, is that nothing can definitively be proven until some official news comes out.

No matter how much we discuss, it'll just be a game of back and forth; he said, she said until something comes to light.

A circle of hope and despair.

Please, let there be something soon.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I mean, I hate to sound like a broken record, but if Papa's video is "He's day 1/very early DLC", then no **** he's not going to be on a banner that's being displayed in stores.

The banner from the Grinch leak is meant for stores to be put up, and it's showing you who's in the game you're purchasing right then and there.



If any character who was DLC was on that banner, that would be false advertising.

Wait has he promised a new video to clarify? (Sorry I checked his postings and didn't see anything so I wanted to know if I missed something).

Or were you reffering to an older video? Sorry again!

Was bored, so I decided to try and make up a mockup of the roster if the leak is legit. Couldn't even get the top rows into the shot though because the roster was too big for my browser to get in the pic.

Just because Incineroar has been leaked so much you could add it too so that it can be perfectly symmetrical...

 

[CannonStreak]

What's it matter if he does or doesn't?

At this point it seems like people are taking sides based solely on whether they want the characters and whoever's supporting or not supporting it instead of, you know, the actual evidence.

I honestly feel like I'm in America during the height of the Red Scare with McCarthyism, except replace "Russian" with "Insider."

"They're a dirty Russian Insider! There's no way we can trust them!"

Don't be crazy. It is not like we are being that extreme. Just because we may disagree with these insiders doesn't mean we are all calling or treating them bad. Sure, some of us are being unfair, but that doesn't mean everyone is. No need to be extreme about it. No need to compare this to McCarthyism either.

Plus, if we are acting bad, don't you think that can apply to some of the insiders as well?

 

[Kuraudo]

Sakurai.

Either save us from this whole mess we’ve put ourselves in with a direct...or somebody drop some video footage.

I beg of you.

 

[osby]

But the banner doesn't even state those characters are playable in the first place. It's just our side knowledge that we know that they are. If I showed the banner to my Mom she probably wouldn't think those are all of the characters you can play as. I feel like we need someone with a law degree or something on this subject tbh.

Smash For posters sometimes feature unplayable characters as well, but I imagine they are a whole different ballgame.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That's very disappointing, as you're making the same sweeping generalizations that's making me pissed off at the ResetERA insiders. If you don't think the evidence is good, fine, but to pretend it doesn't exist or to pretend that all of us just want our characters (instead of, ya know, trying to be skeptical of it all to avoid being disappointed) is missing the point. Some people, yes, want their character in and are way too certain of it's authenticity. But portraying that as the only reason is insulting.

Maybe I was incorrect in my initial statement, and I was definitely incorrect with the generalization I implied. My bad on that one. However, the large aversion and hatred of insiders seems to be a driving force for many people to support this leak as if they don't have valid input.

I'm not saying they're divine prophets to be believed, but I'm saying that they should be taken seriously instead of immediately disregarded because you either don't like them or believe they're being misled by some supposed misinformation campaign.

 

[MashedPotatoUltimate]

These past few days have been killing me lmao, I need an official announcement from Reggie now

 

[AreJay25]

With papagenos' latest statement, here's an accurate description of me having to process everything that's happened over the past few days

Good lord this ride just doesn't stop does it

 

[TheBazry64]

Made this real quick after the current events

 

[Jedisupersonic]

That's kind of stupid. WTF is going on in the Smash community right now?

The same thing we always prove, that we're too immature to have civil discussion on anything.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I wonder what Steve's info is that makes him so confident it's fake?

At least we have other insiders that have different info.

I'm trusting PapaGenos; and also Spawn Wave thinking the leak would be more believable if it had Incineroar.

 

[Senselessbreak]

I don't know what tweet you're referring to. As far as I read, he thinks the leak is fake. Though, he's a freelancer, so he wouldn't have insider information and is probably going off based on what he believes (and I don't fault his pessimism).

If anything, I think Steve Mayles is the closest we have to speculate on. When asked about the Banjo news, he said it's a shame things get leaked and is trying to avoid it. He's brothers with Gregg, who does work at Rare. Most likely doesn't mean anything, but it's something.

Trying to avoid it, it's a shame stuff gets leaked

— Steve Mayles (@WinkySteve) October 24, 2018

Gregg would 100% know about Banjo's inclusion in Smash. And with Steve creating Banjo, its extremely likely he knows for sure if Banjo is or isn't in.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

I do hope papagenos don’t get harassed if his sources turn out to be fake. He seem like a really genuine dude who just trying to speculate like us and try to figure out what’s going on behind the scenes. So I appreciate what he is trying to do for us.

 

[osby]

Sakurai.

Either save us from this whole mess we’ve put ourselves in with a direct...or somebody drop some video footage.

I beg of you.

"Here, a Castlevania, Mega Man and Fire Emblem medley! Enjoy and don't ask me for anything else until December."

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

I've never seen someone so defensive over a group of human beings who could make just as many mistakes as the rest of the community.

 

[gloop898]

I don't want to throw a wrench in anything, but I've been thinking about this for a while.

If I remember right, papagenos said his source heard about everybody in the Grinch Leak and Banjo specifically, and that his source was from Microsoft.
I must ask though, why would a Microsoft source know about characters in Smash Bros. It's possible they would know about Banjo, but I feel like its unlikely that Nintendo would give Microsoft information about any other characters to avoid leaks. This just doesn't feel right to me.
Of course, I mean no disrespect towards PapaGeno, but I just find this strange.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

YIKES. "Steve" from Nintendo Life over on ResetERA just said PapaGenos is wrong about everything.

The stakes continue to increase.

(Can't link the post because I got banned on resetera)

i cant help but laugh because that just looks like a salty guy LOOOOL
papagenos is just a dude speculating like us with a source- "NOPE HE'S WRONG"

 

[DraginHikari]

I can see why the current leak has lasted as long as it has. Frankly, we only debunk leaks using a few common reasons:

1) Problem with the character renders either poorly rendered or doesn't match Ultimate's character style.

Due the blurriness of the picture it's hard to make out certain qualities about the renders which makes them difficult to judge.

2) The Render image is from other sources.

This is probably the more interesting point with this leak as though we've seen renders of all these characters before, I haven't been able to see and find an actual previous version of the renders we see. Which means if it is fake then those renders were directly created by the leaker which is difficult to prove once again, the image is too blurry to make out the specific details. Though we can tell the poses themselves do not appear to be from previous renders.

3) Technical problems with the picture that don't add up.

Though there are some differences with the background image some of these differences are hard to speak directly on as it appears there have been different version of that background used. Once again, the blurriness on the image it hard to compare certain elements on the page.

4) The choices seem unrealistic or over the top.

This is probably one of the largest points against the leaks due to the sheer number of characters involved. It seems too good to be true as a whole. Let's face it though, for the vast majority of people here this leak is much more preferable to what the Box Theory and other viewpoints were proving from a speculation standpoint. So, your already have a particular issue of confirmation bias you have to fight through against this particular point.

Where do I stand at this point? If I'm being 100% honest I'd would like this leak over the reality we've seen with other theories. Does that mean I am siding with the Leakers True side of things? Not really. I'm staying mostly neutral on the whole thing am making no particular call on the issue unless something more definitive is shown. I don't accept the box theory for the same reason. People are comparing this to the ESRB leak that had actual video to back up the images that were originally provided. This Leak is nowhere near that convincing in any sense of the word. I do not trust the word of insiders anymore then I trust anyone who claims to have knowledge of special knowledge. Until I have real tangible evidence I can review and analyze I don’t plan on taking a side.

It’s still interesting though to see how people are processing this and what information can be taken and its part of the fun of the speculation season. For those people though talking about losing sleep or panicking over the whole thing my best suggestion to you is the calm down. Working yourself up into a frenzy is a good way to make your life more difficult for literally no reason what so ever.

 

[Shroob]

But the banner doesn't even state those characters are playable in the first place. It's just our side knowledge that we know that they are. If I showed the banner to my Mom she probably wouldn't think those are all of the characters you can play as. I feel like we need someone with a law degree or something on this subject tbh.

This isn't how advertising works at all....



If you advertise something before the game comes out, people expect it to be base game unless stated otherwise.


For example, look at the legal mess associated with Aliens: Colonial Marines and the false advertising lawsuits it got.




Banners at real-world events would have the base game roster on it while keeping DLC out. You're buying a game with 79 characters, Incineroar is NOT in the game unless you pay 6 extra.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I mean
It took a full month to kill Sassy Geno.
So... shrug

To be fair on this one though, people quickly disregarded Sassy Geno when it came into existence. It wasn't until that tansut guy said that a leak that's already out there ruffled some feathers that people started to look at it again and that's when it was disproven.

With the Grinch leak, the entire smash fanbase has been analyzing this thing inside and out and no one has found the killing blow yet.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Don't be crazy. It is not like we are being that extreme. Just because we may disagree with these insiders doesn't mean we are all calling or treating them bad. Sure, some of us are being unfair, but that doesn't mean everyone is. No need to be extreme about it. No need to compare this to McCarthyism either.

I'll concede. The sentiment on this forum reflects mild McCarthyism. The sentiment at large though certainly reflects something similar to it, with the massive hate campaigns going on against these people. While we're certainly not instituting witch hunts, the character attacks on insiders doesn't help anything.

Yeah, they're acting smug and ****, but do any of you think it might be because of the way we treat them? Insiders are universally despised by the Smash fandom, even if they're trying to help. That'd certainly make me jaded and cynical towards Smash Bros. fans. At the very least we should separate their character from their claims, as they're completely valid whether or not the person is a ****.

Call me whatever you want, but I just want people to take a neutral look at the whole situation without calling people names and treating it like it's a fight to the death for the holy land.

 

[Noipoi]

After being pushed around by the dark lord creepy Steve, Incineroar heel turns against him and joins the fighters as day one dlc.

Now this is a comic I wanna see.

 

[zack4812]

Because it's insiders can be jerks. Seriously, they've had to deal with some bull**** so I can understand their aggression. But it's when they make sweeping statements about the Smash community from listening to the bad apples that pisses me off and I find their arrogance hypocritical. Regardless if they're right or not.

I just got banned for "Dismissing harassment" because I said the insiders should not be rude back. Hmmmm...

 

[Heracr055]

I think it's time for some of you to go to bed or clear your head

 

[GaroMaster]

Have you guys realized something yet?

If this leak is real, not only do we get all of these amazing characters, but papagenos will have defied all of these insiders.

One of our own.

I almost want this to be real just because that would make for such an awesome underdog story.