Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ChronoKatie]

I am teak fake for the most part, but I do want to give a reaosn why Papagenos could be the exact one who has actual information. He has no ties to anything. He has no job on the line, and he himself said his channel isn't big enough to be considered much of a risk. However, he is a super down to Earth and intelligent individual, and combining this fact, and the previous one it could explain why someone with genuine knowledge would go to him instead. Not saying this is proof or anything, but never forget what Tyrion Lannister said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89nSiw41UbY

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Okay, what if on Banjo's home stage, there's a Palutena/Snake thing with Bottles telling Banjo and Kazooie about the fighter's abliities all in their goofy text? It'd work so perfectly.

Imagine the banter between Kazooie and ol' Goggle Boy, so much sass. The charm of BK is a big reason as to why the series is endearing and remembered so fondly. Unprecedented at the time and you'd trust Sakurai to capture that charm if they make it in.

Grunty getting involved in someway would just about top it off. Maybe she can sling a few rhymed insults the way of Bayonetta, about who is the better witch!

 

[Shroob]

I can barely stomach Grinch politics, let's not bring actual politics in here.

The fact that "Grinch politics" is even a thing.... legit never thought I'd even consider such a thing, let alone related to SMASH.



This is the most bizarre cycle, ever. Bar none.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm not out for "Insider" blood or anything, but that Steve guy on ResetEra is a jerk. (I'd use MUCH stronger language, but I'm not sure what is and isn't allowed here. or if censors are needed)

First he says this:
"The only consistent thing about PapaGenos's videos is that he's been wrong about Smash. In all of them."

Then when asked about other examples of PapaGeno's being wrong says this:
"I had never heard of his channel before this, so no, I can't. But I can tell you he's definitely wrong, and I believe him when he claims his info comes from sources. I just think the sources he's got are pulling the wool over his eyes and I feel bad that he's being targeted that way."

Practically smearing a new channel like that is really freaking low.

I don't think he's really smearing the channel. Everything seems more hostile in text then it really is. I think he's just stating that PapaGeno is wrong and not trying to be mean.

Honestly this. Dude just things that PapaGeno's insider is lying to him, which he very well might. He's making a subjective observation and nothing more. It's not evil just because you don't necessarily agree with it.

 

[CannonStreak]

In the spirit of fairness, hostility has been going all around. No "side" is free of guilt, but the important thing is less "who started it" and moreso how we're going to come together and move forward from it.

I know what you mean. You are right. Still, I don't see us coming together and moving forward anytime soon, and even if a Direct comes next week, we'll probably still be fighting.

 

[Weeman]

I only feel bad for the insiders and youtubers getting harrassed and insulted. Also for the mods here.
Everyone else can take a break from speculation at any time. But many here seemingly take it so seriously that not being certain who the next characters is, or just there being theories that go against your wishes, is treated as some kind of torture.

 

[xpnc]

The fact that "Grinch politics" is even a thing.... legit never thought I'd even consider such a thing, let alone related to SMASH.



This is the most bizarre cycle, ever. Bar none.

For too long the greedy Whos of Whoville have hoarded all the Christmas cheer. No more, I say!

 

[Jigglymaster]

It was pretty fun for a while...

I'll take this over the box theory any day.

Even with some toxicity at least there's a little substance in the debate now.

I'm glad it leaked. It's been really entertaining and way better than talking about the boring box theory.

I don't see how it's any different than the Box theory. It's come to talking about the same thing over every single day, with insults and toxicity thrown at each other at the expensive of ruining Sakurai's surprise. Instead of living in a timeline where we could have had the box theory debunked and everyone going
"Oh god im so glad I was wrong about the box theory!"

We now have this crummy timeline where 50% of people are gonna come out super angry because it was either real or fake. Honestly I'd go back to the days before this in a heart beat. Then again, I don't really expect anyone here to agree with me seeing as some of you have already said you'd prefer it to be leaked like this rather than have it officially shown off.

Honestly it feels like Ground hogs day when I visit this website, it's literally the same discussion over and over again.

 

[Xiaolinspiration]

Difference is that Microsoft owns Rare, and they no longer had rights to DK.

They still have the rights to BK though.

Well they didn't had any rights to begin with, they just made the models of the modern DK, end of the day it's still a Nintendo property hence why we say King K. Rool in Mario Super Sluggers post Rare buyout by Microsoft.

 

[Confirmation]

Honestly this. Dude just things that PapaGeno's insider is lying to him, which he very well might. He's making a subjective observation and nothing more. It's not evil just because you don't necessarily agree with it.

I mean, saying every video is wrong despite admitting to knowing nothing about the channel is a pretty stupid thing to say

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Shall we go back to Gardevoir politics?

 

[Iridium]

So, while I was gone for 3-4 hours, did we accomplish anything?

 

[TheMilkmann]

Lemme tell you, loosing ur gf while all of this is happening is not a fun experience, it just makes it soooo much more stressful.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I am teak fake for the most part, but I do want to give a reaosn why Papagenos could be the exact one who has actual information. He has no ties to anything. He has no job on the line, and he himself said his channel isn't big enough to be considered much of a risk. However, he is a super down to Earth and intelligent individual, and combining this fact, and the previous one it could explain why someone with genuine knowledge would go to him instead. Not saying this is proof or anything, but never forget what Tyrion Lannister said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89nSiw41UbY

This exact same thing happened to a moderator here and was outright duped into thinking Ridley was in Smash Wii U as a playable character.

 

[Xiaolinspiration]

I don't see how it's any different than the Box theory. It's come to talking about the same thing over every single day, with insults and toxicity thrown at each other at the expensive of ruining Sakurai's surprise. Instead of living in a timeline where we could have had the box theory debunked and everyone going
"Oh god im so glad I was wrong about the box theory!"

We now have this crummy timeline where 50% of people are gonna come out super angry because it was either real or fake. Honestly I'd go back to the days before this in a heart beat. Then again, I don't really expect anyone here to agree with me seeing as some of you have already said you'd prefer it to be leaked like this rather than have it officially shown off.

Honestly it feels like Ground hogs day when I visit this website, it's literally the same discussion over and over again.

Hence why I missed when Nintendo just announced characters here and there a la Smash 4.

Remember when PAC-MAN™ was announced via freaking Twitter for christ sake?

 

[gloop898]

I only feel bad for the insiders and youtubers getting harrassed and insulted. Also for the mods here. Everyone else can take a break from speculation at any time, but many here seemingly take it so seriously that not being certain who the next characters is, or just there being theeories that go against your wishes, is treated as some kind of torture.

Yeah, people are being unreasonable mean to other people. Youtubers and insiders aren't perfect, but neither are we. We should all try to be nicer and not attack people for trying to discredit or credit something.

 

[Vycoul]

Honestly this. Dude just things that PapaGeno's insider is lying to him, which he very well might. He's making a subjective observation and nothing more. It's not evil just because you don't necessarily agree with it.

Now, now, I didn't say it's "evil" I say it's low.

And Steve's words are right there. He said Geno's is consistently wrong. Meaning more than once.
Then when asked for other examples he says he's never heard of him before this. That's just crappy anyway you slice it.

 

[Shroob]

Hooooooooonestly, I kinda agree.



"It's better than box theory!"



Yeah, I agree, but in the end, what is this but "Box theory but with 5 more characters attached?"


Like, it's more or less the same thing.


We've gone from "Talking about box theory all the time" to "Talking about Grinch leaks all the time", the difference is just that the Grinch leak slaps an extra 5 more characters on top.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Shall we go back to Gardevoir politics?

PLEASE

I don't see how it's any different than the Box theory. It's come to talking about the same thing over every single day, with insults and toxicity thrown at each other at the expensive of ruining Sakurai's surprise. Instead of living in a timeline where we could have had the box theory debunked and everyone going
"Oh god im so glad I was wrong about the box theory!"

We now have this crummy timeline where 50% of people are gonna come out super angry because it was either real or fake. Honestly I'd go back to the days before this in a heart beat. Then again, I don't really expect anyone here to agree with me seeing as some of you have already said you'd prefer it to be leaked like this rather than have it officially shown off.

Honestly it feels like Ground hogs day when I visit this website, it's literally the same discussion over and over again.

Don't worry, I agree with you. I honestly miss the days of the theory wars, Sora debates, Shadow echo discussions, all of it. While it may have been similarly heated, there was a degree of camaraderie to it all. Now? There's nothing but a fractured fandom, with its members clawing at each other's throats.

We've gone from "Talking about box theory all the time" to "Talking about Grinch leaks all the time", the difference is just that the Grinch leak slaps an extra 5 more characters on top.

And it's much more dangerous in that if it is fake we're going to have a meltdown unlike any other in Smash Bros. speculation. This is honestly worse than I ever could've predicted.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Except it’s extremely grimy to admit you’ve never heard of someone before but your first instinct is to say that they’re consistently wrong all the time. His literal first instinct upon hearing about him was to say he’s ALWAYS wrong. He definitely made it sound later like it was just the source he didn’t like, but he started out calling the Papa always wrong when he’d never even heard of him before.

Tl;dr what a grimy jerk.

 

[Xiaolinspiration]

Is this Smash talk or gaming politics?

I can’t tell anymore, it’s even harder to try to find some lighthearted fun by playing games and asking fun questions when it’ll just get flooded by more insider drama and debates.

Can we have the stupid Direct already?

Yeah, mostly by the end of October, I hope they give us a kind of an announcement for the direct date for this hell to end.

 

[ChronoKatie]

This exact same thing happened to a moderator here and was outright duped into thinking Ridley was in Smash Wii U as a playable character.

Could very well be. I really hope it doesn't hurt his channel though. He's too good to let this affect my opinion, personally.

 

[Tyrathius]

I want to believe Papageno is legit. However, I do find it extremely suspicious that he supposedly has a source no one else has talked to (or at least admits to having talked to).

No disrespect meant to the guy.

 

[Honest Slug]

I don't see how it's any different than the Box theory. It's come to talking about the same thing over every single day, with insults and toxicity thrown at each other at the expensive of ruining Sakurai's surprise. Instead of living in a timeline where we could have had the box theory debunked and everyone going
"Oh god im so glad I was wrong about the box theory!"

We now have this crummy timeline where 50% of people are gonna come out super angry because it was either real or fake. Honestly I'd go back to the days before this in a heart beat. Then again, I don't really expect anyone here to agree with me seeing as some of you have already said you'd prefer it to be leaked like this rather than have it officially shown off.

Honestly it feels like Ground hogs day when I visit this website, it's literally the same discussion over and over again.

For me what made Box Theory boring was that it had no depth. It basically put discussion into a box. Pun intended. Either you think Nintendo would reveal the roster with the box or you didn't, it made any discussion outside of Ken and Incineroar really tedious.

The Grinch leak is far more interesting with way more factors to talk about. It's less about faith and more about evidence, even if none of the evidence is enough to completely go either way. It's definitely getting a bit stale but at least we can talk about characters other than Ken and Incineroar now.

 

[Confirmation]

It's funny that the name of the antagonist of course would be Steve.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Honestly this. Dude just things that PapaGeno's insider is lying to him, which he very well might. He's making a subjective observation and nothing more. It's not evil just because you don't necessarily agree with it.

It's clumsy wording for sure. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because this is a pretty bad situation all around, but I think it speaks to internet culture that casual hostility is such a pervasive thing that we begin to see it everywhere.

I know what you mean. You are right. Still, I don't see us coming together and moving forward anytime soon, and even if a Direct comes next week, we'll probably still be fighting.

You can drop out. I'm done arguing over whether this leak is real or not because it's not worth the stress and bad blood when this is supposed to be something to bring us together. Getting a few internet points is not worth making this place a less welcoming environment.

Just disengage, don't play their games, don't stoop down into the muck.

 

[gloop898]

Now, now, I didn't say it's "evil" I say it's crappy behavior.

And Steve's words are right there. He said Geno's is consistently wrong. Meaning more than once.
Then when asked for other examples he says he's never heard of him before this. That's just crappy anyway you slice it.

I think by consistently wrong he means in his latest videos, or his latest information given. And PapaGeno is a smaller youtuber so him saying he hasn't heard of him seems to just be more like "I don't know his full reputation, so I dont know if I should trust him" and "He may be right in the past, but I don't know"

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

People are forgetting Papa Genos said it was a source we would believe too. He woldnt't say that if it was just a random nobody. It could literally be the most obvious person for all we know.

 

[gloop898]

It's funny that the name of the antagonist of course would be Steve.

Literally nobody is an "antagonist"

 

[Mutsukki]

For me what made Box Theory boring was that it had no depth. It basically put discussion into a box. Pun intended. Either you think Nintendo would reveal the roster with the box or you didn't, it made any discussion outside of Ken and Incineroar really tedious.

The Grinch leak is far more interesting with way more factors to talk about. It's less about faith and more about evidence, even if none of the evidence is enough to completely go either way. It's definitely getting a bit stale but at least we can talk about characters other than Ken and Incineroar now.

I'm so sorry, but all I can read is "this has stuff I want/more stuff so it's cooler". That's what makes me the maddest about this whole ordeal, people don't care at all if something is real or not, they just want to ride the biggest and hypest leak they can get a hold off.

There's no actual discussion to be had.

 

[doomedtacox]

We've gone from "Talking about box theory all the time" to "Talking about Grinch leaks all the time", the difference is just that the Grinch leak slaps an extra 5 more characters on top.

True except we have visual proof with the Grinch leak, albeit very blurry visual proof. With the box we never got to see what's on the back so it could only go so far.

 

[uhmuzing]

Christ this thread moves too fast, it's physically impossible to multitask keeping up w here and exploring Muse b-sides rn

But can someone catch me up on what papageno's record has been in the past on smash stuff?

 

[CosmicQuark]

Honestly this. Dude just things that PapaGeno's insider is lying to him, which he very well might. He's making a subjective observation and nothing more. It's not evil just because you don't necessarily agree with it.

Indeed. And I'm a huge Banjo fan so of course I want him to be right. But given it's a source of a source, this is perhaps different terrain than he's used to, and he's certain that the leak is true that it may bias him, I have to be cautious, as much as I think he's a great guy and I hope he's right. And, hey, if he's right, he'll be legendary.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Don't worry, I agree with you. I honestly miss the days of the theory wars, Sora debates, Shadow echo discussions, all of it. While it may have been similarly heated, there was a degree of camaraderie to it all. Now? There's nothing but a fractured fandom clawing at each other's throats.

For me what made Box Theory boring was that it had no depth. It basically put discussion into a box. Pun intended. Either you think Nintendo would reveal the roster with the box or you didn't, it made any discussion outside of Ken and Incineroar really tedious.

The Grinch leak is far more interesting with way more factors to talk about. It's less about faith and more about evidence, even if none of the evidence is enough to completely go either way. It's definitely getting a bit stale but at least we can talk about characters other than Ken and Incineroar now.

I mean at the very least, if leak had like, undeniable video proof or something from the start that was 100% agreed upon to be real, we could have avoided all this toxicity and arguing and all collectively gotten hyped over these new characters. But that didn't happen. Now even if they do get announced, a ton of people are going to be pissed off because now they're gonna have to hear all the "I told ya sos" and crap and how the leak ruined the surprise. Honestly nothing good is coming out of it and if it's real, we're going to live in a timeline were people will legitimately be angry to see Banjo, Geno, and the others in the game.

I just see no good end to this.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

This PapaGenos situation is kinda reminiscent of what happened to loz18 imo. He was just one of us and only wanted to speculate. Then he came out one time with real information that he had obtained and just like that people were clamoring for him to say more. Eventually, he started getting stuff wrong and he lost credibility with everyone and is now hated by pretty much everyone.

Speaking of loz, has anything notable happened with him in a while? I haven't been really following smash speculation to closely since around gamescon in August but I recall loz fizzled out fantastically.

 

[Idon]

Leaks are not a hunter unbeknownst to its prey
one is always aware that they lie in wait.
Though speculation is merely a journey to the game release, it must not be undertaken without hype.
Only then will a community’s story live on, treasured by those who bid it farewell.
But alas, now my forum’s discussion has ended, its ****posts left unwritten…

 

[StrawHatX]

I think by consistently wrong he means in his latest videos, or his latest information given. And PapaGeno is a smaller youtuber so him saying he hasn't heard of him seems to just be more like "I don't know his full reputation, so I dont know if I should trust him" and "He may be right in the past, but I don't know"

No offense, but you just sound like you’re making up excuses for the guy’s words.

 

[osby]

Just a few days ago, we were talking about how the Grinch leak is the best thing happened to this speculation period and now this.

Anyway, at this point I think it's better to dial down a bit.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Christ this thread moves too fast, it's physically impossible to multitask keeping up w here and exploring Muse b-sides rn

But can someone catch me up on what papageno's record has been in the past on smash stuff?

He has no record. He's just a user here and has been making discussion videos this cycle.

 

[Xiaolinspiration]

If any indication, I might make that bold prediction that they might hold a direct around the middle of November, no way they're going to leave the smash community with bated breath unless Nintendo is just laughing their asses off while all of us are tearing each other apart like The Purge.