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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Ramen Tengoku

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It's definitely Flint the venus djinn, I was analysing it with other fans and it's clear
Either the person who made this fake has done their research, or this could possibly be the real deal...
ya i know... its just i feel bad for him... all his hard work and it migth have already been leak... wish evreyone could give him a helping hand :(

(also uh... you siad (he doesn't want things but) you forgot to put leak)

also question to evreyone... i tougth i herd someone a week ago say the smash 4 leak came out within the time that would be the 24 of october for us, is this true? when did this smash 4 leak came out again?
It was about a month before Smash 3DS' release, I believe
 
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joshoctober16

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He doesn't want things but it's not like he can decide all the dates for the directs/reveals by himself. There are other games Nintendo needs to market and there are other companies they need to rival for info dump dates.
ya i know... its just i feel bad for him... all his hard work and it migth have already been leak... wish evreyone could give him a helping hand :(

(also uh... you siad (he doesn't want things but) you forgot to put leak)

also question to evreyone... i tougth i herd someone a week ago say the smash 4 leak came out within the time that would be the 24 of october for us, is this true? when did this smash 4 leak came out again?
 

Spatman

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What if during the planning phase, Sakurai decided they needed a Pokemon, saw Decidueye and thought he'd be perfect. But Nintendo, knowing Decidueye was already in Pokken, decided it would be too redundant so Sakurai waited it out and decided they'd do Incineroar later in the process, thus turning him to DLC instead.
Pokkén was released almost a year before rumors about Incineroar started (with "it's not decidueye, mimikyu or lycanroc" phase)
This post exudes disbelief about the fact that Incineroar coul be chosen over decidueye, or about the fact that decidueye wasn't chosen in absolute.
And I don't understand why. Decidueye isn't even so special to be added everywhere, and it's already in pokkèn, no particular reason to consider it a shoe in or an almost one for smash and similar things
 

CosmicQuark

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For this to be fake, a person needs to love all things Nintendo and videogames, be an excellent art designer, illustrator and editor, while simultaneously be 2000iq maniac who has planned all this a certain way make people believe the leak is true by Occams razor (aka, he hypothetically made it so ****ing complicated and circumstantial on purpose to make people believe the easier thing is to say it's real...when it probably just is)
I mean, you did just describe Sakurai* :lol:

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I can't say it's impossible--and in fact, there ought to be super fans out there just like that. I can understand why someone "would" do this, though--like every other faker, to rile people up, get that 15 minutes of fame. Of course, they haven't come out yet, which casts doubt on the latter, as you noted. And as much as I try to view this through the lens of someone who thinks it's fake, there's too many things that strain credulity, while the problems with it being real rely on authority or nitpicks. And with insiders supposedly having trouble with this leak as well, it's hard to think of it as just a normal "fake leak". But there's certainly more to this than we know.

*and his team
 

vaanrose

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See its details like this that really get me and why I believe it all. From a 100p image, we can tell all 7 of the characters are expressive, uniquely designed, and original, and fit within the constraints of the leak.

I'm not saying somone can't do this, I'm asking why someone WOULD do this. If it's drawn by a faker, they obviously have some serious passion for drawing and have some great knowledge about each of the characters.


- Geno was drawn small, when most depictions have him big or bigger than Mario. It....works here.
- Chorus Kids are harassing the conductor, something never depicted in art before and is suggesting we use the conductor somehow in gameplay along with the kids.
- Isaac is seen using GROWTH of all things, and not any other, more iconic Psyenergy moves he is known for. His scarf is flying upwards due to creating growth in the ground, like wind pushing against him.
- Banjo and Kazooie are doing something similar to their famous T-pose where Banjo thinks he's flying and Kazooie is flying for him. BUT, Banjo is totally aloof to Snake's missle launcher, while Kazooie, the more obvservant of the duo, seems to be freaking out about it lol.
- Ken and Shadow are doing familiar but unique poses on the banner. Nobody can find anything remotely similar to that art.
- Mach Rider is hard for me to see, but again, like the other 6 characters, the character seems to fit with the artstyle and is blended in with the banner altogether.

For this to be fake, a person needs to love all things Nintendo and videogames, be an excellent art designer, illustrator and editor, while simultaneously be 2000iq maniac who has planned all this a certain way make people believe the leak is true by Occams razor (aka, he hypothetically made it so ****ing complicated and circumstantial on purpose to make people believe the easier thing is to say it's real...when it probably just is)

In addition, he puts Ken on the mural and NOT Incineroar, which is odd because both have always been leaked, discussed, or believed to be in the game AT THE SAME TIME. If it's a fake, a faker would know this fact.

Finally, and maybe most importantly, nobody after 4 days has come forward admitting or providing the sources for the leak if it were fake. Usually when things like this happen, fakers want that 15 minutes of fame pretty quick (Omni, Agnes leaker, etc) and reveal themselves not too long after freaking out. Nobody, not even anonymously, has gone out their way to update this leak even more, when usually things like this have multiple parts to them (a person releases some thing small, then bigger to keep the discussion going)

Just my two cents on the matter.
I think this isn't giving fans enough credit. Consider that famous Bomberman mural art that stuck him next to Wario, pushing a bomb toward him as a reference to Wario Blast. It was fun and creative, arguably more so than any of these leaked poses. Smash has way more fake leaks than the average franchise because Smash has a lot of really passionate fans. And many of the fake leakers who have stepped forward and admitted they were behind leaks have echoed the same sentiment; they did it because it was fun to make.
 
D

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Good god I am soooo invested in this leak now I'll be dissapointed if its fake

I hyped irresponsibly

May Sakurai forgive me
 

Paperchampion23

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I think this isn't giving fans enough credit. Consider that famous Bomberman mural art that stuck him next to Wario, pushing a bomb toward him as a reference to Wario Blast. It was fun and creative, arguably more so than any of these leaked poses. Smash has way more fake leaks than the average franchise because Smash has a lot of really passionate fans. And many of the fake leakers who have stepped forward and admitted they were behind leaks have echoed the same sentiment; they did it because it was fun to make.
It's not just the art though, it's combined with everything else that makes it unbelievable for me
 
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Squirtle/Mario guy

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Aha, perhaps even further reason why Incineroar came very late in the process. After Decidueye they tried Lycanroc, but perhaps he was difficult to program due to the all-fours movement. You could use night version, sure, but he's the less popular one. Just spitballing though.
Just imagine Pokemon fan's reaction though, urgh, Verlisfy, i think i'll go #TeamIncineroar is what i'd be thinking and possibly harrassment too

Keep in mind that all Sakurai was able to show off for Mewtwo's initial DLC announcement was his model. There was still a lot of work that needed to be done, and virtually no leaks or reliable sources predicted that he'd even be present in the October Direct to begin with.

I may not know the circumstances behind DLC for this game, but I do know that we can't automatically assume that every mysteriously missing character is DLC. Incineroar not being in this leak is a huge red flag for Vergeben no matter how you look at it. Because he first heard about Incineroar from his sources in early July (a good five months away fron release), I feel confident in saying Incineroar is more likely base game than DLC (assuming he's in the game at all).

Not saying it's impossible for Incineroar to be DLC, but it's an even bigger stretch to believe both Verge and the Grinch leak are completely correct and assume Incineroar, Sora, and possibly Steve are all DLC.
Most possible scenario and it's what i'm predicting but do keep in mind Greninja's inclusion during Smash 4, i'm not saying it's that scenario but it's possible and that maybe Eric didn't get the whole mural
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Pokkén was released almost a year before rumors about Incineroar started (with "it's not decidueye, mimikyu or lycanroc" phase)
This post exudes disbelief about the fact that Incineroar coul be chosen over decidueye, or about the fact that decidueye wasn't chosen in absolute.
And I don't understand why. Decidueye isn't even so special to be added everywhere, and it's already in pokkèn, no particular reason to consider it a shoe in or an almost one for smash and similar things
Decidueye is an interesting case tbh, it's a bit of a bandwagon, especially with people not caring anymore after Ivysaur returned. That being said, Decidueye also has stuff not many potential fighters do (And no, a handful of fighters using the same move with an arrow doesn't make an archery moveset repetitive or unoriginal). Plus, as a starter, Decidueye was bound to get popularity, especially considering it's Rowlet's final evolution. Also Lycanroc is just a trash Pokemon Game Freak really dropped the ball with so I'd rather have **** like idk, Cherrim playable
 

osby

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I mean, you did just describe Sakurai* :lol:

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I can't say it's impossible--and in fact, there ought to be super fans out there just like that. I can understand why someone "would" do this, though--like every other faker, to rile people up, get that 15 minutes of fame. Of course, they haven't come out yet, which casts doubt on the latter, as you noted. And as much as I try to view this through the lens of someone who thinks it's fake, there's too many things that strain credulity, while the problems with it being real rely on authority or nitpicks. And with insiders supposedly having trouble with this leak as well, it's hard to think of it as just a normal "fake leak". But there's certainly more to this than we know.

*and his team
15 minutes of fame? We're talking about this for four days now. :chuckle:
 

Amiibo Doctor

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Good god I am soooo invested in this leak now I'll be dissapointed if its fake

I hyped irresponsibly

May Sakurai forgive me
You've only hyped irresponsibly once it's determined to be false. If it turns out to be true (it will) then you've hyped more responsibly than most of us in the thread.
 

Pazzo.

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When counting the number of "new" characters do you think we should count Melee and Brawl vets? They couldn't be ported over like Brawl -> Smash 4.
:ulticeclimbers::ultpichu::ultpokemontrainer:(×2):ultsnake::ultwolf::ultyounglink:
Grinch leak + 7 = 23 fighters.
I'm sure Pichu, Wolf, and Y. Link can be disputed.
 
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Guynamednelson

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When counting the number of "new" characters do you think we should count Melee and Brawl vets? They could be ported over like Brawl -> Smash 4.
:ulticeclimbers::ultpichu::ultpokemontrainer:(×2):ultsnake::ultwolf::ultyounglink:
Grinch leak + 7 = 23 fighters.
I'm sure Pichu, Wolf, and Y. Link can be disputed.
They had to be built from the ground up, sure, but it's the same with veteran fighters in Smash 4 due to fighters getting separate animations for facing left and right outside of taunts.
 
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Pazzo.

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They had to be built from the ground up, sure, but it's the same with veteran fighters in Smash 4 due to fighters getting separate animations for facing left and right outside of taunts.
Forgot about this!

I can see why Sakurai wanted to focus on returning fighters for once.
 

Wiziliz

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I'll give Echoes a separate list.

Banjo-Kazooie - My most wanted newcomer. Really hope that they have good speed, some stage control when Kazooie spits or farts out eggs and some great combo starters from Banjo's punches.
Ridley - My most wanted Nintendo newcomer, I was hyped when he joined! This mainly comes from me wanting him during the wait for Smash 4's release, and him just being an awesome character. Definitely the most evil character in Smash's roster!
Geno - With Ridley and King K. Rool in, it feels like Geno needs to be him. Seeing him reunite with Mario will probably make me cry. Of course, his moveset would be cool, but just seeing him in Smash and hearing Forest Maze in his cutscene/trailer would be amazing!
Mach Rider - Most wanted retro rep! I've wanted them for a while, I can definitely see him (or her) being heaps fun to play, it sounds crazy to say, but they might already be main/secondary material for me.
King K. Rool - Got me to play Donkey Kong Country and looks like an awesome fighter. Great moveset! Really looking forward to seeing his potential realized. The only fighter I've been spoiled on, but his trailer is still amazing, anyway! His theme too! ****!
Simon - Predicted he'd make it in, and heaps glad he keeps the style of his home games! Prince Charming looks great!
Chorus Kids - How will they play? How will they play?! I can't wait to see. A mixture of Ice Climbers, Trainer and Rosalina? No clue. This will be exciting! Hope they have some kind of music gimmick, even if it's only in the Final Smash.
Isabelle - Cute, and looks like a more fun Villager to me.
Inkling - Oh yeah, they're here too! In all seriousness, I'm sure they'll be good. And very annoying.

Dark Samus - **** yeah, she just seems like a better Samus, and looks glorious!
Ken - Should be in. I like him more than Ryu, and being the original clone, and with celebration of Echoes, I think he deserves to be in the game! If he isn't in, no Echoes should be! Just kidding, but he's definitely the most necessary.
Richter - Looks awesome.
Chrom - Ike's up special is heaps of fun, but I'm way more excited for actual Ike.
Shadow - Sonic with teleportation? Sounds annoying, but cool. I'm imagining he'd be the child's main, like Springtron from ARMS, so he should be easy to go up against despite a good moveset! His design and personality gives a laugh, and is better than modern Sonic's, I think.
Daisy - Boooo! Just kidding, nothing wrong with an extra character (that isn't named Steve). Kind of funny to see her announced. "Hi I'm Daisy!" better be a taunt, hahaha.
 

Danpal65

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Yeeep... this thing's still giving on.



Someone's certainly playing with our hearts... I hope it's not the fake leaker.
Just remember that if this isn't real that any animosity, and some of it would be reasonable, should be directed towards the faker and not towards the Nintendo, Sakurai or the Smash development team.
 

Cosmic77

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I think this isn't giving fans enough credit. Consider that famous Bomberman mural art that stuck him next to Wario, pushing a bomb toward him as a reference to Wario Blast. It was fun and creative, arguably more so than any of these leaked poses. Smash has way more fake leaks than the average franchise because Smash has a lot of really passionate fans. And many of the fake leakers who have stepped forward and admitted they were behind leaks have echoed the same sentiment; they did it because it was fun to make.
If we only had the picture and nothing else to go off of, I feel like a lot more people would be skeptical of this, if only because we've seen some pretty crazy things done by Smash fans.

Honestly, if we're ever going to solve this before a Direct, we'll probably have to find some discrepancies within the story. The image can't seem to provide us with any clear evidence.

Decidueye is an interesting case tbh, it's a bit of a bandwagon, especially with people not caring anymore after Ivysaur returned. That being said, Decidueye also has stuff not many potential fighters do (And no, a handful of fighters using the same move with an arrow doesn't make an archery moveset repetitive or unoriginal). Plus, as a starter, Decidueye was bound to get popularity, especially considering it's Rowlet's final evolution. Also Lycanroc is just a trash Pokemon Game Freak really dropped the ball with so I'd rather have **** like idk, Cherrim playable
Hate on Lycanroc all you want. Doesn't take away from the fact that he's the best Gen VII Pokemon. ;)
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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15 minutes of fame? We're talking about this for four days now. :chuckle:
Not to mention all of the gaming journalism coverage it's getting. Let's not forget it's not just a bunch of nerds on a forum discussing it, it's almost every online videogame journalism outlet.

And yes I just called you all nerds :p
Which is why it's so peculiar to me. Nobody, not one person, as attempted to claim this extraordinary leak if it's fake.

They'd be famous for years at this point
Uh exactly, why come out now? If the faker knows it's fake they also know when it's going to die, probably the 8th. If the majority of the Smash fanbase (and at this point I would say it's the majority) think it's real why would they come out? Would you? After putting probably at least a month of work into it? Yea probably not.

Anyway we'll know soon enough. And honestly if it is fake I wouldn't come out about it anyway just so I could avoid death threats, Crunchii or whatever they were called got them just for faking leaks of music. Yeah this fan base is toxic :rolleyes:
 
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drag0nscythe

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Saw an analysis on reddit about the mural. So many small changes to characters like greninja and pokemon trainer.

I am convinced that it is ...

Still weak compared to the box.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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So if the banner is true guys. How would you rank reach newcomer and your reasons for it?
:ultridley: Easily my most wanted newcomer after Mega Man was inn smash 4. Been wanting him since 64.
:ultkrool: Probably an easy second (or 3rd) before Mega Man. Glad to see his fat ass taking ass and kicking names.
Banjo-Kazooie: my support for the bird and bear has went back and forth throughout the years - mostly cause I saw them impossible. Glad to see they are considered a serious contender. They are a remanent of my dream smash 64 roster (along with Jessie/James, Mewtwo, James Bond, Joanna Dark, and Bowser)
Mach Rider: been wanting this character for a long long time. But not as long as the above.
:ultdarksamus:: Of all the Echoes, she is my favorite. But I’m bias towards Metroid.
:ultisabelle: Was on my wishlist for newcomers. Wished she uses a rolling desk chair for a dash attack.
Isaac: never played Golden Sun but I like the character and what he can bring to Smash.
:ultinkling: Never been a Splatoon fan but seeing them was a nobrainer. I can’t wakt to see how each character is inked up by them.
Geno: I would prefer Sora or Chrono for the seconds SE rep but Geno is golden in my book.
Incineror: a wrestling character really gets my excited.
Chorus Kids: only if they are rhythm based fighter that also summons characters from the series. I like that idea.
:ultsimon: The least confirmed newcomer I can get behind. Just not a fan of the series. And **** castlevania for getting over 30 tracks and final fantasy getting only 2.
Ken
:ultdaisy:
:ultchrom:
:ultrichter:
Shadow

I don’t like clones except for Dark samus and Lucina
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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I've been able to hype responsibly, because if the leak is true, I'll get my most wanted character. And if it's fake, I'll still probably get Incineroar. It's a win-win situation...
 

CosmicQuark

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I think this isn't giving fans enough credit. Consider that famous Bomberman mural art that stuck him next to Wario, pushing a bomb toward him as a reference to Wario Blast. It was fun and creative, arguably more so than any of these leaked poses. Smash has way more fake leaks than the average franchise because Smash has a lot of really passionate fans. And many of the fake leakers who have stepped forward and admitted they were behind leaks have echoed the same sentiment; they did it because it was fun to make.
Yeah, but that's an example of a fan knowing something about two characters, Wario and Bomberman, and mostly the former. This person would know a lot of intricate detail about 90s platformers, RPGs, handheld games, a SEGA character, a NES game based off of a 70s toy that never got a sequel. Some more than others, obviously, as we can barely make out Mach Rider. And when you look into the reasons why they may have been included, make sense in the context of these characters being plucked out from Smash's history. It's the variety, in addition to the detail that fans of those series would pick up on that's striking.

That doesn't mean it's impossible. Maybe not even improbable, but is perhaps the best fake Smash leak taking all of these into consideration. And to me seems fairly unlikely to be fake when you take that as well as the circumstances surrounding it into consideration. I feel like too many people who think it's fake simply brush these things aside (though, in the opposing direction, it's fairly easy for people who think it's real to exaggerate their claims). Not saying that's what you're doing, and this less a rebuttal and more expanding upon P Paperchampion23 's great post. It's what goes a long way to making it appear convincing.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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If we only had the picture and nothing else to go off of, I feel like a lot more people would be skeptical of this, if only because we've seen some pretty crazy things done by Smash fans.

Honestly, if we're ever going to solve this before a Direct, we'll probably have to find some discrepancies within the story. The image can't seem to provide us with any clear evidence.



Hate on Lycanroc all you want. Doesn't take away from the fact that he's the best Gen VII Pokemon. ;)
As someone who was initially interested about Lycanroc, seeing "WOW LOOK AT THIS YOU CAN EITHER BE A FORM WITH A COOL MOVE LITERALLY NOBODY ELSE CAN USE OR YOU CAN HAVE COUNTER! ISN'T THAT SO EXCITING? DOESN'T THAT MAKE YOU WANT TO BUY 2 COPIES? DOESN'T GETTING MOTHER****ING COUNTER MAKE YOU HYPED?" I was really ****ing disgusted because it's advertised as a choice, yeah you COULD get Counter or you could get the thing literally nothing else learns. Not exactly a hard choice. Then a year later "MAN DON'T YOU FEEL LIKE A ****ING IDIOT NOW CAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENT ONE THAT HAS BOTH! IT'S BARELY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE PEOPLE ACTUALLY GAVE A DAMN ABOUT AND IS EVENT EXCLUSIVE! ISN'T THAT EXCITING? HAVING A LIMITED TIME TO GET OUR EQUIVALENT OF ON DISK DLC?"
 

osby

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Hate on Lycanroc all you want. Doesn't take away from the fact that he's the best Gen VII Pokemon. ;)
When did Oricorio died and made Lycanroc the best Gen VII Pokemon?

Not to mention all of the gaming journalism coverage it's getting. Let's not forget it's not just a bunch of nerds on a forum discussing it, it's almost every online videogame journalism outlet.

And yes I just called you all nerds :p
Sounds accurate.
 

Spatman

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That being said, Decidueye also has stuff not many potential fighters do (And no, a handful of fighters using the same move with an arrow doesn't make an archery moveset repetitive or unoriginal)
the problem is: the only move coherent with its archetipe that an archer can do is... shooting arrows. It's not an archetipe sooooo various, so I don't think that with this sentence you made me incapable to use Pits and Links examples to argue the inclusion of decidueye.
But my thought actually is another, and I'd like to stress it again: could decidueye be in smash? of course. MUST it be in? absolutely not.
And after its inclusion in pokkèn I always take for granted it won't be in smash. That's because it's not pikachu, mewtwo, charizard or lucario, so an indispensable character that has to be everywhere.

So I really don't understand the total disbelief it isn't in smash and another alolan pokèmon was (if true) chosen over it
 

Phyr

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Morning,

It seems nobidy has figured out what's the deal with the insiders yet huh?

I thought about it and its strange, because most leakers dont outright deny the evidence, and rather sit in disbelief because thats not what they know/seen/even played for all I know.

The most simple explanation is that everyone got Gematsu'd or send false information, or just the leak is actually false and we lost at 2e1024d chest.

But there are sooooo many contradictions between insiders, with some as far as saying that they might have been feed false information, that I seriously dunno.

Let me explain: if you were outright sure that something is fake, you could do as vergeben and tell "ken isnt there" or "this is a copy of X". I know about source stuff but there is a miriad ways to be creative.

But actually, what we are getting are peiple staying in outright denial because "they must be right" and rather irritable too... which i find reeeeeeally unfair that there are soooo many "insiders" knowing information that the general public doesn't like they were sort of a higher chain of command and now they are casted doubt. (Seriously that was one shady mess that Im glad that is imploding if the leak is true) OR people assuming that the evidence is damning conclusive and that it sorta aligns with things that they know, making it all the more intriguing because AT THE VERY LEAST, THE FAKER SHOULD HAVE SOME INSIDER INFORMATION TO GET SOME OF THE CORRECT CHARACTERS **AND** RENDERS FOR THE MURALS, even if the rest is fake. This contradiction right here, that we dont know the exact explanation (could be a myriad of things) is what makes the insider argument dubious.

Plus the image evidence is so ****ing strong for it ti be real, with the only real counterargument is the background and omitting all the other stuff like the guy, the real data, coincidences with the grinch poster and all that. There is a LOT of, circumstacial tho, evidence towards true.

If it ends being true, I hope that once the gsme is release some leaker open up to us about what they knew and try to figure it out what the hell happened here.
 
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