Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Figure it would still be alive but

Likely all of this is know about someone on twitter made this

There was a problem fetching the tweet

But I’m sure this is just all the key points for team real known so far though

I will say this though the characters on it renders and shadowing and coloring seem to match all current characters on it but that’s grasping straws though since Rayman in smash 4 had similar render in that fake leak and sassy geno as well

 

[Zinith]

Well obviously the best Gen 7 Pokemon is--

*rapidly checks through the Pokedex entries to find reptile Pokemon*

Salazzle!!!

 

[Iridium]

Best Alolan Pokémon? Uh, I love Incineroar (comes in 3rd), but I have to go for either Vikavolt or Lycanroc.

 

[Cheesehead302]

Were there any new discoveries about ol' Grinchy during the night?

 

[AzureFlame4]

So if the banner is true guys. How would you rank reach newcomer and your reasons for it?

Banjo-Kazooie-Only character I want more is Phoenix Wright
-Was a character I always sort of wanted, but once he was revealed I started really getting into the lore of Castlevania and now I want to look into maining him or Richter.
-See above
-Was one of my smash ballot votes and Nintendo really delivered because he looks super fun.
Mach Rider-He/she has a cool design and I would be extremely interested to see how you even play as them.
-I like Metroid decently well but the hype that this brought for so many people was amazing to see.
Chorus Kids-I love playing as wacky characters from time to time and I can't imagine them not just being super wacky.
-Closest thing to a lock smash may ever have and they deserve it. Inking seems like a fun mechanic and I am interested in playing as them a bit.
-Even though I'll probably play as Chrom a lot more than the people above him, he is still just another Marth. Considering he has Roy and Ike moves without the noodle makes him cool though.
Geno-Geno is okay, but has never really been my thing. I'll be more happy for the people finally getting him.
Isaac- See above, but he has the potential to see some use from me based on what little I know about him.
Ken-Ken is a cooler Ryu imo, but I suck as Ryu.
-Ehhh, she is cute at least. Yay dogs.
-Better Samus is always good.
Shadow- Edgehog
-I don't even like playing as Peach

 

[Radical Bones]

Well obviously the best Gen 7 Pokemon is--

*rapidly checks through the Pokedex entries to find reptile Pokemon*

Salazzle!!!

Go with Jangmo-o. He's way cuter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

the problem is: the only move coherent with its archetipe that an archer can do is... shooting arrows. It's not an archetipe sooooo various, so I don't think that with this sentence you made me incapable to use Pits and Links examples to argue the inclusion of decidueye.
But my thought actually is another, and I'd like to stress it again: could decidueye be in smash? of course. MUST it be in? absolutely not.
And after its inclusion in pokkèn I always take for granted it won't be in smash. That's because it's not pikachu, mewtwo, charizard or lucario, so an indispensable character that has to be everywhere.

So I really don't understand the total disbelief it isn't in smash and another alolan pokèmon was (if true) chosen over it

That's like saying characters who use fireballs means characters who can use fire an many ways means it's not unique anymore. The Pits and Links use the arrows the EXACT same way. What about a Free Aim special, which lets the user stay in place and aim 360 degrees before firing? Why not look at Hawkeye from MvC as an example to make it work? I have no strong feelings on Decidueye either way but it's just a bad argument.

"MUST it be in?" is the worst argument for literally anything. MUST Dragon King be changed to have Nintendo characters? MUST Avengers 4 have non-Avengers? MUST the DCEU just use DC characters? MUST I put butter on a sandwich?

 

[beans]

Morning,

It seems nobidy has figured out what's the deal with the insiders yet huh?

I thought about it and its strange, because most leakers dont outright deny the evidence, and rather sit in disbelief because thats not what they know/seen/even played for all I know.

The most simple explanation is that everyone got Gematsu'd or send false information, or just the leak is actually false and we lost at 2e1024d chest.

But there are sooooo many contradictions between insiders, with some as far as saying that they might have been feed false information, that I seriously dunno.

Let me explain: if you were outright sure that something is fake, you could do as vergeben and tell "ken isnt there" or "this is a copy of X". I know about source stuff but there is a miriad ways to be creative.

But actually, what we are getting are peiple staying in outright denial because "they must be right" and rather irritable too... which i find reeeeeeally unfair that there are soooo many "insiders" knowing information that the general public doesn't like they were sort of a higher chain of command and now they are casted doubt. (Seriously that was one shady mess that Im glad that is imploding if the leak is true) OR people assuming that the evidence is damning conclusive and that it sorta aligns with things that they know, making it all the more intriguing because AT THE VERY LEAST, THE FAKER SHOULD HAVE SOME INSIDER INFORMATION TO GET SOME OF THE CORRECT CHARACTERS **AND** RENDERS FOR THE MURALS, even if the rest is fake. This contradiction right here, that we dont know the exact explanation (could be a myriad of things) is what makes the insider argument dubious.

Plus the image evidence is so ****ing strong for it ti be real, with the only real counterargument is the background and omitting all the other stuff like the guy, the real data, coincidences with the grinch poster and all that. There is a LOT of, circumstacial tho, evidence towards true.

If it ends being true, I hope that once the gsme is release some leaker open up to us about what they knew and try to figure it out what the hell happened here.

Interesting detail I want to point at that maybe help us in the long run: Proof of Incineroar, we dont know what is it.
But the way it looks like some of those characters in the mural are in by what the Insiders know, but the Incineroar makes them doubt about it.
Theres some options here:
1- They've seen Incineroar in the mural or in gameplay
2- Incineroar was bait
3- They've seen the full mural with the real characters BUT some of them arent there

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So if the banner is true guys. How would you rank reach newcomer and your reasons for it?

Banjo-Kazooie
Chorus Kids



Geno


Incineroar (Assuming he's the "Missing character" and its true)
Isaac
Ken

Mach Rider


Shadow

Ranking mine from worst to best...

Spoiler: Longish

D-Tier
17.

Kinda wish we got Steve....
16. Eh, never been a fan of him

C-Tier
15. He looks a little eh...
14. Eh...
13.

I don't really care for him, but I'd be happy for his fans...

B-Tier
12. Why weren't you in Smash 4 in the first place?
11.

I'll be happy for his fans
10. "Hi. I'm Daisy!
9. The Pupper is cute

A-Tier
8. By the power of Grayskul- I mean... Vampire Killer!
7.

Where's that darn 4th guest echo fighter?
6.

Hoping it's the female iteration
5. "Begone, You don't belong in this world, Monster!"

S-Tier
4. "Woomy"
3.

The most obvious echo, imo
2.

Y'all didn't see him coming...
1.

Finally, a character representing my favorite non Smash game series...

 

[xjthegulpin]

Pyukumuku outsold, Eevee wishes she had what Pyukumuku has. Decidueye? Lycanroc? Incineroar? Mimikyu? Never heard of them. Pyukumuku is really giving it to us, she stays at the top unbothered. She didn’t have to go so hard but she did and that’s that on that. Pyukumuku won, everyone else loses.

 

[Door Key Pig]

What if we got a fan requested third gen Pokemon of Blaziken or Sceptile (are they already in Pokken) instead of a new one? well I can dream...

 

[Phyr]

Well obviously the best Gen 7 Pokemon is--

*rapidly checks through the Pokedex entries to find reptile Pokemon*

Salazzle!!!

Im a yoshi and reptile fan. But no. Absolutely no.

You would have to go to tyrantrum to be super duper awesome lizard

 

[Wiziliz]

I'm going to feel defeated if Incineroar is the next reveal we get. If Mach Rider or Banjo-Kazooie is the next revealed, I'll feel as alive as I did when Ridley was shown.

 

[Phyr]

Interesting detail I want to point at that maybe help us in the long run: Proof of Incineroar, we dont know what is it.
But the way it looks like some of those characters in the mural are in by what the Insiders know, but the Incineroar makes them doubt about it.
Theres some options here:
1- They've seen Incineroar in the mural or in gameplay
2- Incineroar was bait
3- They've seen the full mural with the real characters BUT some of them arent there

Its conflicting because it seems like a 3.5 option: they saw the full mural with all the characters but some of them arent there AND THERE ARE SOME THAT SHOULDNT BE THERE (as far as they are telling us but they wont say WHO)

 

[osby]

That's like saying characters who use fireballs means characters who can use fire an many ways means it's not unique anymore. The Pits and Links use the arrows the EXACT same way. What about a Free Aim special, which lets the user stay in place and aim 360 degrees before firing? Why not look at Hawkeye from MvC as an example to make it work? I have no strong feelings on Decidueye either way but it's just a bad argument.

"MUST it be in?" is the worst argument for literally anything. MUST Dragon King be changed to have Nintendo characters? MUST Avengers 4 have non-Avengers? MUST the DCEU just use DC characters? MUST I put butter on a sandwich?

Not disagreeing on your main point but saying Link and Pit uses arrows in exact same way is a bit incorrect, considering Palutena's Bow does more or less what you proposed.

 

[Zinith]

Im a yoshi and reptile fan. But no. Absolutely no.

You would have to go to tyrantrum to be super duper awesome lizard

Joke flew way over your head...

 

[PSIGuy]

The most simple explanation is that everyone got Gematsu'd or send false information

The Insider and the Intel: A One Act Play by PSIGuy
Scene 1. An Insider is sitting at a laptop posting tweets.
An Insider: Hey I have secret information I'm not meant to tell anyone! Top secret NDA stuff
An Insider: ok so I'm going to tell you all the remaining characters
The insider lists off random characters. Then, a banner that says "Actual Cast" is lowered in, to the Insider's bemusement.
An Insider: wtf why would they give me false information do they not trust me????
An Insider: is it because... I blurt out literally everything I hear???
Lights dim. We hear the Insider repeat his last line. Curtains close.
Fin

 

[Deleted member]

Watch Boshi get in before Geno at the rate of support he's getting lol

 

[Phyr]

Joke flew way over your head...

Na, I just eated it wholly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not disagreeing on your main point but saying Link and Pit uses arrows in exact same way is a bit incorrect, considering Palutena's Bow does more or less what you described.

Pit's bow can be slightly curved. The thing is for all of them, you press and hold B, the charge the arrow, and let go when you let go. My idea is something I thought of if Samus was allowed to change one of her specials

 

[AzureFlame4]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

What is the "new" box theory?

 

[Phyr]

What is the "new" box theory?

Something about some characters being in the back of the box, like the switch bundle.

 

[Gyrom8]

Oranguru best Alola mon. Or Golisopod. Having a playable Guzma + Golispod would be the dream: while Pokemon trainer stands in the background, Guzma would squat.

 

[beans]

Its conflicting because it seems like a 3.5 option: they saw the full mural with all the characters but some of them arent there AND THERE ARE SOME THAT SHOULDNT BE THERE (as far as they are telling us but they wont say WHO)

Remenber that 3 isnt really exclusive to the mural, but more as a whole.
There is some stuff there that gives validity, like some of those who will be in the game, but theres also stuff that doesnt match with what they know, like Incineroar for example.
We still dont know what kind of evidence it is, so we cant even scrutinize the amount of work that was put into something that proves them right.
If it was just words then to the bin it goes, if it is a mural that everyone knows can be faked then its a maybe, if it is a in-game picture then depends of the context and content, if it is a video then we should kneel down to the future that is Incineroar

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

To take a break from leak discussion , I've got a question for all of you guys.

What veteran are you most excited to use in Ultimate, that you haven't played/liked in any previous installment?

Mine is .

Twilight Princess was one of my least favorite Zelda designs... period.

And then they changed it from my least favorite Zelda to my favorite Zelda in the series' history (ALBW & ALTP were tied for first):

View attachment 172585

Plus her moveset seems a lot better this time around (in terms their of properties)

Maybe she'll be my main ranged character.

She's way too precious this time...
It doesn't hurt that she's my go-to Zelda character anyways,

 

[Cosmic77]

So if the banner is true guys. How would you rank reach newcomer and your reasons for it?

Banjo-Kazooie
Chorus Kids



Geno


Incineroar (Assuming he's the "Missing character" and its true)
Isaac
Ken

Mach Rider


Shadow

- It's freaking Ridley. Need I say more?

- I love Splatoon, and I was so happy to see them get in (as obvious as it was). We needed more "Gunner" characters.

- Might be a little overrated, but she's definitely overhated. AC deserved a second rep, and I'm really glad she got in.

- Mainly supported him for his supporters, but I really wanted a new DK rep. Wasn't my first choice, but I'm happy regardless.

Chorus Kids - I love weird characters like these. No clue how they'd even work, but Sakurai has me intrigued.

- Bout time. VERY underrated and unappreciated by the fanbase. After seeing how often she was swept under the rug so other Mario characters would seem more likely, I'm glad she's in.

- Metroid has gotten shafted over the years, so I'm glad it's finally getting the attention it deserves. My only gripe is that DS would've made an awesome semi-clone.

Shadow - A little too edgy for my liking, but more Sonic characters are welcome.

Mach Rider - On the fence with this one. I like weird characters, but this feels a little forced. Then again, I'm usually critical with any retro rep.

/ - Kinda glad Verge leaked the latter. I have no history with Castlevania, so I don't really care about either of these two. They look cool though. I'll at least give them that.

Isaac - Never played Golden Sun, so I guess I can't say much other than I don't have a history with him.

Ken - My dictionary definition of "Don't care."

Banjo and Kazooie - Nostalgia aside, I don't get these two. They aren't really iconic compared to other choices we could go with, and I don't see anything in their moveset that really makes me think they'd bring something truly unique to the table.

- Not to repeat what all the FE haters say, but Chrom shouldn't exist. There's absolutely no reason for us to have four characters derived from the same moveset.

Geno - I apologize to his supporters, but this dude doesn't make a lick of sense to me. He only appeared in one game, his moveset is limited to his gun arms and five generic special attacks (one of which can't even be used in Smash without reworking it), and he sticks out from the current Mario cast like a sore thumb that was hit repeatedly by a sledgehammer and rolled over by 3 ton semi truck.

 

[CosmicQuark]

What is the "new" box theory?

I'm guessing it was the joke suggestion that the original 8 are somewhere else on the box and not included on the sides, which lines up with the 7 characters in the banner plus Incineroar.

But where would Dark Samus be... I had the same idea, but I see it making no sense whatsoever despite making so much sense

 

[beans]

https://twitter.com/Marfor_Official/status/1055464007526768641/photo/1

>New box theory
This is getting out of hand, now there is two of them!

 

[Spatman]

That's like saying characters who use fireballs means characters who can use fire an many ways means it's not unique anymore. The Pits and Links use the arrows the EXACT same way. What about a Free Aim special, which lets the user stay in place and aim 360 degrees before firing? Why not look at Hawkeye from MvC as an example to make it work? I have no strong feelings on Decidueye either way but it's just a bad argument.

"MUST it be in?" is the worst argument for literally anything. MUST Dragon King be changed to have Nintendo characters? MUST Avengers 4 have non-Avengers? MUST the DCEU just use DC characters? MUST I put butter on a sandwich?

Ok. I can't express my thought in a simpler way than I already did, so I can't reply again about this topic

 

[Ura]

I don’t know they cut ****ing mewtwo from melee so he was lower priority.

And mewtwo is arguablely one of the top five mascots for Pokémon. So if he can get cut, I don’t see why cutting a starter with lesser popularity is out of the question. Especially when dlc could just add a gen 8 Pokemon and be a better addition.

That's true but Mewtwo wasn't a newcomer in Brawl and Incineroar is. That's the big difference. Promotion. I don't see him going to the wayside if he were in the game.

The only scenario I can see this happening is if TPCi and Sakurai had advanced plans to have a Gen 8 PKMN as DLC and scrapped him but that's a lot of planning ahead.

 

[Cosmic77]

https://twitter.com/Marfor_Official/status/1055464007526768641/photo/1

>New box theory
This is getting out of hand, now there is two of them!

"Works with blog theory"

...I thought this was supposed to be evidence?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Huge franchise that needed to be introduced in Smash. I also needed a whip user in my gamestyle, and he fills the bill. Also, Captain N crew.
An amazing surprise addition.
Shadow, for an echo, has me REALLY excited to play as. Can't really say much, but I love having a new flavor of Sonic to play as.
Isaac has me pretty excited. I am very eager to see what they did with his moveset. And hopefully we get the Venus Tower stage!
Mach Rider, would be an incredible surprise addition that I can't wait to try! He's my most wanted retro character ONLY after Mike and Takamaru.
One of my most wanted echo fighters, although I know she deserves better, at least she's in the game!
Ken is a great pic for an echo. I already use Ryu a lot, so it's going to be fun using smiling free blonde Ryu..
Pretty happy Daisy got in. I can't wait to try her out.
Not into villains. But I admit, Ridley looks so much more fun than I thought he would.
Again, not huge into villains, but I guess K.Rool is a nice addition. His gameplay looks pretty fun.
Geno is a little neat to have, tbh. I never saw the big deal about him, but at least he's unique. So I might try him out every now and then.
Banjo Kazooie is a neat addition for a lot of people. He's a great character to represent Microsoft/Rare. I have no attatchment, but it's still cool.
An expected inclusion. Completely dead neutral on this character.
She's a cute addition, but I'm not really into AC, and I'm not really sold on this character.
I don't really care about Chorus Kids. I find there are more interesting looking RH chararcters.
I don't care about Fire Emblem, and it's yet ANOTHER swordsman from the SAME IP. Thanks for saturating the trope, Sakurai.

 

[Phyr]

I just noticed that the level of credibility is so high that smash reddit is actually using spoiler tags for all the analysis.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Morning,

It seems nobidy has figured out what's the deal with the insiders yet huh?

I thought about it and its strange, because most leakers dont outright deny the evidence, and rather sit in disbelief because thats not what they know/seen/even played for all I know.

The most simple explanation is that everyone got Gematsu'd or send false information, or just the leak is actually false and we lost at 2e1024d chest.

But there are sooooo many contradictions between insiders, with some as far as saying that they might have been feed false information, that I seriously dunno.

Let me explain: if you were outright sure that something is fake, you could do as vergeben and tell "ken isnt there" or "this is a copy of X". I know about source stuff but there is a miriad ways to be creative.

But actually, what we are getting are peiple staying in outright denial because "they must be right" and rather irritable too... which i find reeeeeeally unfair that there are soooo many "insiders" knowing information that the general public doesn't like they were sort of a higher chain of command and now they are casted doubt. (Seriously that was one shady mess that Im glad that is imploding if the leak is true) OR people assuming that the evidence is damning conclusive and that it sorta aligns with things that they know, making it all the more intriguing because AT THE VERY LEAST, THE FAKER SHOULD HAVE SOME INSIDER INFORMATION TO GET SOME OF THE CORRECT CHARACTERS **AND** RENDERS FOR THE MURALS, even if the rest is fake. This contradiction right here, that we dont know the exact explanation (could be a myriad of things) is what makes the insider argument dubious.

Plus the image evidence is so ****ing strong for it ti be real, with the only real counterargument is the background and omitting all the other stuff like the guy, the real data, coincidences with the grinch poster and all that. There is a LOT of, circumstacial tho, evidence towards true.

If it ends being true, I hope that once the gsme is release some leaker open up to us about what they knew and try to figure it out what the hell happened here.

Wanted to point out what many have before - they only got irritated when people started acting rude towards them without any reason besides "They said this leak that has a character I want isn't in."

Now sure they aren't giving evidence, but that's because they literally can't otherwise they lose all trust and any chance of getting information in the future. But not a single insider has claimed the leak is 100% accurate except Papagenos source which again is a secondhand anonymous source compared to credible insiders we've known for years.

And another thing...when these insiders were leaking Snake & Ridley everyone ate it up. Now they're saying the Grinch Leak isn't 100% correct and no one wants to listen to them. It's absolutely possible they've been given false information, but up to this point they haven't. I don't think it's fair to just toss out what they're saying. Should at least be considered.

Well obviously the best Gen 7 Pokemon is--

*rapidly checks through the Pokedex entries to find reptile Pokemon*

Salazzle!!!

>Obsession with Yoshi and now claims Salazzle of all Pokemon is his favorite Gen 7 pokemon

Ok now I'm convinced you're a scaly

 

[MainJPW]

https://twitter.com/Marfor_Official/status/1055464007526768641/photo/1

>New box theory
This is getting out of hand, now there is two of them!

“...You bred boxes?”

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok. I can't express my thought in a simpler way than I already did, so I can't reply again about this topic

It's ok you can just admit you don't have a counterargument, people won't hold it against you, only time I saw that happen was someone still being mad about me to this day because I said K.Rool fans had inexcusable behaviour when Bayonetta and Corrin were confirmed

 

[Iridium]

To take a break from leak discussion , I've got a question for all of you guys.

What veteran are you most excited to use in Ultimate, that you haven't played/liked in any previous installment?

Mine is .

Twilight Princess was one of my least favorite Zelda designs... period.

And then they changed it from my least favorite Zelda to my favorite Zelda in the series' history (ALBW & ALTP were tied for first):

View attachment 172585

Plus her moveset seems a lot better this time around (in terms their of properties)

Maybe she'll be my main ranged character.

For a guy who mains a lot of characters and uses a lot of characters, there's actually 21 characters (including newcomers) that I never got a chance to try.



Yes, I never bought DLC. Out of all these characters, I would (looking at veterans, because of your question) pick or . I actually need to get a feel of how these two play, because I already added them to my pool of secondaries.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Hmmm we're discussing best Gen 7 Pokemon Huh?
It's easily my boi, Litten
A fire cat starter had been one of my dream Pokemon for a little bit, and then it actually happened
He's the reason I want incineroar...

 

[beans]

Also yall saying Incineroar will represent gen 7?
You bunch of dunkeys, its clear Lillie will be the new character.
Want a grappler, all her attacks are command grabs that are loyal to the character.
Her final smash will be putting everyone in mortuary bag, because everyone is quacking dead

 

[Iridium]

Hmmm we're discussing best Gen 7 Pokemon Huh?
It's easily my boi, Litten
A fire cat starter had been one of my dream Pokemon for a little bit, and then it actually happened
He's the reason I want incineroar...

I find the entire line awesome too! What do you think about Vikavolt?