Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CosmicQuark]

So essentially every newcomer we're getting, minus a few exceptions from 3rd parties or those that came out in a game sometime late in Smash 4's development or afterward, has already been represented in smash one way or another?

This honestly seems to make sense. It definitely seems to boost the chances of characters like Skull Kid, Geno, Dillon, and definitely anyone from Rhythm Heaven.

Though, this would hurt the chances of the likes such as Bandana dee, making characters like Rayman seem like more likely characters.

I believe this may birth another theory.

Since it's looking at patterns of the previous game, does that make this A GAME THE--

*gets shot*

 

[Shroob]

I've said this before, but every Smash Ultimate newcomer so far was majorly represented in Smash 4 (+previous Smash games), excluding the Castlevania duo for obvious reasons:

• All had Wii U trophies (including Ken!)
• All but Ridley had 3DS trophies (as his associated stage was Wii U only)
• All 4 who had existed at the time were Brawl Trophies
• All 3 who had existed at the time were Melee Trophies
• 5/7 were Mii costumes
• 2/7 were Assist Trophies
• Ridley was a boss in Pyrosphere and Brawl's Subspace Emissary

For context, the following Brawl characters were trophies in Melee:

1. Meta Knight
2. Pit
3. Zero Suit Samus (technically "Samus Unmasked")
4. Wario
5. Squirtle
6. Charizard (also a Pokeball Pokemon in previous games)
7. King Dedede (also appears as stage background)
8. Olimar
9. Wolf (technically Wolfen)

Additionally, Diddy was mentioned on Dixie's trophy (plus featured in the DK Rap), while Bulbasaur and Venusaur both have trophies that mention Ivysaur.

...and the following Smash 4 characters were trophies in Brawl or Melee:

1. Villager
2. Little Mac (Was also a full Assist Trophy)
3. Palutena
4. Bowser Jr.
5. Duck Hunt (Trophy in Melee, Sticker in Brawl)

You will note that exempting third parties and the Miis, this is every character released at the time of each game's release, except for Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina who both came out very shortly before Brawl's (delayed) release.

With these very-partial-exceptions, no character who didn't even make Trophy has ever been brought on later as a full character.

So where does Pokemon factor into this logic, because you're a staunch defender of Verg+Box.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

I'm getting multiple sources telling me that Non Specific Action Figure will be the final Super Smash Bros. Ultimate newcomer.

Incineroar, Ken, and Geno were fake leaks planted by Nintendo themselves to hide this unbelievable surprise!

While I would be sad that Geno wasn't in the base roster, I would actually be totally OK with NSAF as the final reveal, especially because I am so sick of hearing about Incineroar and Ken. Now it's not that I don't want them, I just: 1) really, really, REALLY don't want them to be the final reveals, and 2) it would be so left field that I would play the crap out of him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So where does Pokemon factor into this logic, because you're a staunch defender of Verg+Box.

Incineroar was made after Smash 4, thus they aren't a part of the theory.

Same reason characters like Shulk don't go against it.

 

[osby]

I've said this before, but every Smash Ultimate newcomer so far was majorly represented in Smash 4 (+previous Smash games), excluding the Castlevania duo for obvious reasons:

• All had Wii U trophies (including Ken!)
• All but Ridley had 3DS trophies (as his associated stage was Wii U only)
• All 4 who had existed at the time were Brawl Trophies
• All 3 who had existed at the time were Melee Trophies
• 5/7 were Mii costumes
• 2/7 were Assist Trophies
• Ridley was a boss in Pyrosphere and Brawl's Subspace Emissary

For context, the following Brawl characters were trophies in Melee:

1. Meta Knight
2. Pit
3. Zero Suit Samus (technically "Samus Unmasked")
4. Wario
5. Squirtle
6. Charizard (also a Pokeball Pokemon in previous games)
7. King Dedede (also appears as stage background)
8. Olimar
9. Wolf (technically Wolfen)

Additionally, Diddy was mentioned on Dixie's trophy (plus featured in the DK Rap), while Bulbasaur and Venusaur both have trophies that mention Ivysaur.

...and the following Smash 4 characters were trophies in Brawl or Melee:

1. Villager
2. Little Mac (Was also a full Assist Trophy)
3. Palutena
4. Bowser Jr.
5. Duck Hunt (Trophy in Melee, Sticker in Brawl)

You will note that exempting third parties and the Miis, this is every character released at the time of each game's release, except for Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina who both came out very shortly before Brawl's (delayed) release.

With these very-partial-exceptions, no character who didn't even make Trophy has ever been brought on later as a full character.

One thing to note: Ultimate draws heavily from characters that particularly popular among Smash fans. Appearing in previous games can help this, obviously less with plain trophies but still.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I know were long away from talking about Infinity War but I just couldn't resist doing this.

: Bro, I don't'a'feel so good...
: Are you'a'alright?
: I don't'a'know. I don't'a'know what's happening.
*Hugs Mario*
: I don't'a' wanna go. I don't'a'wanna go...Bro, please I don't'a'wanna go...I don't'a'wanna go...
*Mario helps Luigi to the ground to lay down*
: I'm'a'sorry.
*Luigi dusts*

 

[NineS]

I know were long away from talking about Infinity War but I just couldn't resist doing this.

: Bro, I don't'a'feel so good...
: Are you'a'alright?
: I don't'a'know. I don't'a'know what's happening.
*Hugs Mario*
: I don't'a' wanna go. I don't'a'wanna go...Bro, please I don't'a'wanna go...I don't'a'wanna go...
*Mario helps Luigi to the ground to lay down*
: I'm'a'sorry.
*Luigi dusts*

In reality, it'd be the other way around and Luigi would vacuum up the dust and give it E. Gadd for science.

 

[Shroob]

Incineroar was made after Smash 4, thus they aren't a part of the theory.

Same reason characters like Shulk don't go against it.

Interesting.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Interesting.

Basically...

Did 1st party character exist at the time of the previous Smash game?

If yes, did they get a trophy or some other role?

If not, they are unlikely (though prove it isn't impossible).

 

[NineS]

Basically...

Did 1st party character exist at the time of the previous Smash game?

If yes, did they get a trophy or some other role?

If not, they are unlikely (though prove it isn't impossible).

It's more of if the 1st party character existed before said smash game, or at least if the game said first party character was already well into development by the time said Smash game's development started, then they must have had a trophy in the previous smash game to be considered a likely candidate for the current.

Pokemon that are of the most recent Gen are excused from this as in most cases, they didn't exist until after the last Smash Bros. Game was released.
Most 3rd parties are exempt from this rule as well, but representation in a previous smash game still boosts their chances.
Characters that came into existence after the last Smash game are also exempt from this.


Sweet Taro, this really is a new theory, isn't it?

 

[Thinkaman]

Well Lyn's been an assist trophy for a decade now, so I guess that makes her thrice as likely to be in Smash 6!

...Right?

I mean, Lyn is unlikely to ever be significant enough to be made a playable character, but as someone who made the B-team every single game, she has a way better shot than the losers who didn't.

So where does Pokemon factor into this logic, because you're a staunch defender of Verg+Box.

I'm gonna parse this out a bit:

• Pokemon is entirely consistent with this. Lucario, Greninja, and now possibly a Gen 7 Pokemon did not exist when previous games were made. It's no different than, say, Fire Emblem.
• I don't really feel anything special towards Verg's information. However, it is the only noteworthy "leak" that isn't bonkers. We're definitely getting Ken and probably getting a Pokemon, so if he says Incineroar, okay sure why not.
• I'm a "defender" of the official box in the game in the same way that I'm a "defender" of the Directs. Which you'd think wouldn't be a position that has to be assumed, but lo and behold...

I typed out a ranked list of the 40 non-Pokemon humanoid characters that have been featured in at least 3 previous Smash games, but Smashboards ate it. Most are deconfirmed, and the only character on the list (at the top) who is featured as much or more than Daisy/Ridley/Dark Samus/K. Rool is Skull Kid.

Sweet Taro, this really is a new theory, isn't it?

This isn't a "theory", it's common sense. This isn't even the first time I've posted this, and I'm sure other people have.

 

[Michele]

I know that the release is close, but is anyone actually losing hype from the waiting of a new Smash Direct?

 

[Wiziliz]

I know that the release is close, but is anyone actually losing hype from the waiting of a new Smash Direct?

Nah, because the next Smash Direct is next month, and this month is almost done!

 

[Dcas]

I know that the release is close, but is anyone actually losing hype from the waiting of a new Smash Direct?

We all did, the media outlet did. Is not just you, we havent had any real new information since the very start of august and we are almost november, which is 3 months (only isabelle announced). Sakurai announcement of less influx of info and we are basically one month away.

All these combined want it or not sends a message: we are not getting much more of what we already have. which sent a huge wave to all the people expecting hyper crazy stuff.

So either we are getting minimal *new* stuff (what we all expected) with maybe a nice bone (some unexpected newcomer) or sakurai totally trolled us because they are announcing some bombs but im 95% we all know what we are getting. Tbh i just wanna play the game already, that has me wayyyyyy more hype than the actual reveal at this point.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I know that the release is close, but is anyone actually losing hype from the waiting of a new Smash Direct?

Losing hype for what might be in the Direct? Every day.

Losing hype for the actual game? Virtually impossible--I was sold at E3. Everything else is just icing.

 

[Thinkaman]

Additions (and returning characters) by returning series:

Mario - Daisy, New Donk City Hall, 2 Mario costumes, Super Launch Star
Donkey Kong - King K. Rool, Klaptrap
Zelda - Young Link, BotW Link redesign, Zelda redesign, Great Plateau Tower, Moon
Metroid - Ridley, Dark Samus
Yoshi -
Star Fox - Wolf, Krystal
Kirby - Bomber, Chef Kawasaki
Pokemon - Pichu, Pokemon Trainer, 13 Pokeball Pokemon
F-Zero -
Earthbound - Ramblin' Evil Mushroom
Ice Climbers - Ice Climbers
Fire Emblem - Chrom, Killing Edge
Game & Watch -
Kid Icarus - Staff
Wario (Ware) -
Metral Gear Solid - Snake, Grey Fox
Sonic the Hedgehog - Knuckles
Pikmin - Burrowing Snagret
R.O.B. -
Animal Crossing - Isabelle, Kapp'n
Mega Man - Zero
Wii Fit -
Punch-Out!! -
PAC-MAN -
Xenoblade -
Duck Hunt -
Street Fighter - Ken
Final Fantasy -
Bayonetta - Rodin

Has anyone considered a Yarn Yoshi echo as DLC?

 

[osby]

Additions (and returning characters) by returning series:

Mario - Daisy, New Donk City Hall, 2 Mario costumes, Super Launch Star
Zelda - Young Link, BotW Link redesign, Zelda redesign, Great Plateau Tower, Moon

Would Ike and Ganondorf's old design count as returning content? (or redesigns of Star Fox guys count as new content)

 

[TechPowah]

I would add Crafted World costume under Yoshi.

 

[Wiziliz]

Additions (and returning characters) by returning series:

Mario - Daisy, New Donk City Hall, 2 Mario costumes, Super Launch Star
Donkey Kong - King K. Rool, Klaptrap
Zelda - Young Link, BotW Link redesign, Zelda redesign, Great Plateau Tower, Moon
Metroid - Ridley, Dark Samus
Yoshi -
Star Fox - Wolf, Krystal
Kirby - Bomber, Chef Kawasaki
Pokemon - Pichu, Pokemon Trainer, 13 Pokeball Pokemon
F-Zero -
Earthbound - Ramblin' Evil Mushroom
Ice Climbers - Ice Climbers
Fire Emblem - Chrom, Killing Edge
Game & Watch -
Kid Icarus - Staff
Wario (Ware) -
Metral Gear Solid - Snake, Grey Fox
Sonic the Hedgehog - Knuckles
Pikmin - Burrowing Snagret
R.O.B. -
Animal Crossing - Isabelle, Kapp'n
Mega Man - Zero
Wii Fit -
Punch-Out!! -
PAC-MAN -
Xenoblade -
Duck Hunt -
Street Fighter - Ken
Final Fantasy -
Bayonetta - Rodin

Has anyone considered a Yarn Yoshi echo as DLC?

Hasn't there already been a render shown of Yarn Yoshi as an alternate skin?

EDIT: Don't worry, my brain was just being a moron. I know it was Crafted World Yoshi.

 

[Shroob]

Additions (and returning characters) by returning series:

Mario - Daisy, New Donk City Hall, 2 Mario costumes, Super Launch Star
Donkey Kong - King K. Rool, Klaptrap
Zelda - Young Link, BotW Link redesign, Zelda redesign, Great Plateau Tower, Moon
Metroid - Ridley, Dark Samus
Yoshi -
Star Fox - Wolf, Krystal
Kirby - Bomber, Chef Kawasaki
Pokemon - Pichu, Pokemon Trainer, 13 Pokeball Pokemon
F-Zero -
Earthbound - Ramblin' Evil Mushroom
Ice Climbers - Ice Climbers
Fire Emblem - Chrom, Killing Edge
Game & Watch -
Kid Icarus - Staff
Wario (Ware) -
Metral Gear Solid - Snake, Grey Fox
Sonic the Hedgehog - Knuckles
Pikmin - Burrowing Snagret
R.O.B. -
Animal Crossing - Isabelle, Kapp'n
Mega Man - Zero
Wii Fit -
Punch-Out!! -
PAC-MAN -
Xenoblade -
Duck Hunt -
Street Fighter - Ken
Final Fantasy -
Bayonetta - Rodin

Has anyone considered a Yarn Yoshi echo as DLC?

Seems a bit pointless when his stage was axed, and now Crafted Yoshi's an alternate costume.

 

[NineS]

Additions (and returning characters) by returning series:

Mario - Daisy, New Donk City Hall, 2 Mario costumes, Super Launch Star
Donkey Kong - King K. Rool, Klaptrap
Zelda - Young Link, BotW Link redesign, Zelda redesign, Great Plateau Tower, Moon
Metroid - Ridley, Dark Samus
Yoshi -
Star Fox - Wolf, Krystal
Kirby - Bomber, Chef Kawasaki
Pokemon - Pichu, Pokemon Trainer, 13 Pokeball Pokemon
F-Zero -
Earthbound - Ramblin' Evil Mushroom
Ice Climbers - Ice Climbers
Fire Emblem - Chrom, Killing Edge
Game & Watch -
Kid Icarus - Staff
Wario (Ware) -
Metral Gear Solid - Snake, Grey Fox
Sonic the Hedgehog - Knuckles
Pikmin - Burrowing Snagret
R.O.B. -
Animal Crossing - Isabelle, Kapp'n
Mega Man - Zero
Wii Fit -
Punch-Out!! -
PAC-MAN -
Xenoblade -
Duck Hunt -
Street Fighter - Ken
Final Fantasy -
Bayonetta - Rodin

Has anyone considered a Yarn Yoshi echo as DLC?

I joked about it earlier, but I'm skeptical mainly due to the alt Yoshi is already getting:

Spoiler

Not exactly the same, yes, but extremely similar nonetheless.

'd

 

[KMDP]

I mean, Lyn is unlikely to ever be significant enough to be made a playable character, but as someone who made the B-team every single game, she has a way better shot than the losers who didn't.

I'm gonna parse this out a bit:

• Pokemon is entirely consistent with this. Lucario, Greninja, and now possibly a Gen 7 Pokemon did not exist when previous games were made. It's no different than, say, Fire Emblem.
• I don't really feel anything special towards Verg's information. However, it is the only noteworthy "leak" that isn't bonkers. We're definitely getting Ken and probably getting a Pokemon, so if he says Incineroar, okay sure why not.
• I'm a "defender" of the official box in the game in the same way that I'm a "defender" of the Directs. Which you'd think wouldn't be a position that has to be assumed, but lo and behold...

I typed out a ranked list of the 40 non-Pokemon humanoid characters that have been featured in at least 3 previous Smash games, but Smashboards ate it. Most are deconfirmed, and the only character on the list (at the top) who is featured as much or more than Daisy/Ridley/Dark Samus/K. Rool is Skull Kid.



This isn't a "theory", it's common sense. This isn't even the first time I've posted this, and I'm sure other people have.

So essentially every newcomer we're getting, minus a few exceptions from 3rd parties or those that came out in a game sometime late in Smash 4's development or afterward, has already been represented in smash one way or another?

This honestly seems to make sense. It definitely seems to boost the chances of characters like Skull Kid, Geno, Dillon, and definitely anyone from Rhythm Heaven.

Though, this would hurt the chances of the likes such as Bandana dee, making characters like Rayman seem like more likely characters.

I believe this may birth another theory.

Thankfully (for me and others), what Thinkaman posted doesn't really effect Isaac's chances, because he at least had a trophy in Brawl. *wipes brow*

While I can't remember if Bandana Dee had a trophy in Smash 4, Waddle Dee as a species did (because they appeared in Smash Run).

Well Lyn's been an assist trophy for a decade now, so I guess that makes her thrice as likely to be in Smash 6!

...Right?

I know were long away from talking about Infinity War but I just couldn't resist doing this.

: Bro, I don't'a'feel so good...
: Are you'a'alright?
: I don't'a'know. I don't'a'know what's happening.
*Hugs Mario*
: I don't'a' wanna go. I don't'a'wanna go...Bro, please I don't'a'wanna go...I don't'a'wanna go...
*Mario helps Luigi to the ground to lay down*
: I'm'a'sorry.
*Luigi dusts*

In reality, it'd be the other way around and Luigi would vacuum up the dust and give it E. Gadd for science.

I wonder if the dust that was once half the people of the MCU contains their genetic information.

 

[Thinkaman]

Seems a bit pointless when his stage was axed, and now Crafted Yoshi's an alternate costume.

Yeah, I think you're completely right.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Basically...

Did 1st party character exist at the time of the previous Smash game?

If yes, did they get a trophy or some other role?

If not, they are unlikely (though prove it isn't impossible).

And even in Diddy's case he seemingly didn't get a trophy because of legal issues.

 

[Shroob]

If Woolly World was kept around(Still zero idea why it was even cut unless it has to do with technical limitations), a Woolly Yoshi echo would have made too much sense.


But now the stage is gone because........ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[CosmicQuark]

Additions (and returning characters) by returning series:

Mario - Daisy, New Donk City Hall, 2 Mario costumes, Super Launch Star
Donkey Kong - King K. Rool, Klaptrap
Zelda - Young Link, BotW Link redesign, Zelda redesign, Great Plateau Tower, Moon
Metroid - Ridley, Dark Samus
Yoshi -
Star Fox - Wolf, Krystal
Kirby - Bomber, Chef Kawasaki
Pokemon - Pichu, Pokemon Trainer, 13 Pokeball Pokemon
F-Zero -
Earthbound - Ramblin' Evil Mushroom
Ice Climbers - Ice Climbers
Fire Emblem - Chrom, Killing Edge
Game & Watch -
Kid Icarus - Staff
Wario (Ware) -
Metral Gear Solid - Snake, Grey Fox
Sonic the Hedgehog - Knuckles
Pikmin - Burrowing Snagret
R.O.B. -
Animal Crossing - Isabelle, Kapp'n
Mega Man - Zero
Wii Fit -
Punch-Out!! -
PAC-MAN -
Xenoblade -
Duck Hunt -
Street Fighter - Ken
Final Fantasy -
Bayonetta - Rodin

Has anyone considered a Yarn Yoshi echo as DLC?

If you're asking if anyone has considered a possible Yoshi character, the answer is yes Zinith .

 

[Jetsurge]

Nah, because the next Smash Direct is next month, and this month is almost done!

It could be next week please

 

[Zinith]

If you're asking if anyone has considered a possible Yoshi character, the answer is yes Zinith .

I couldn't POSSIBLY know what you mean.....

 

[Jetsurge]

If Woolly World was kept around(Still zero idea why it was even cut unless it has to do with technical limitations), a Woolly Yoshi echo would have made too much sense.


But now the stage is gone because........ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Because according to Nintendo now the Wii U doesn't exist.

 

[PLATINUM7]

And even in Diddy's case he seemingly didn't get a trophy because of legal issues.

Seems weird that Diddy didn't get a trophy but K. Rool and Dixie both got one.

 

[osby]

Because according to Nintendo now the Wii U doesn't exist.

That explains Inklings' designs.

 

[NineS]

That explains Inklings' designs.

Inklings, you say? Never heard of them.
Are they those invisible new playable characters for Smash bros Ultimate from that one game I've never heard on that one console I have never known of?

 

[CosmicQuark]

Because according to Nintendo now the Wii U doesn't exist.

Which is a shame, as Splatoon has now made the jump to Switch, we need a purely Wii U IP to be represented. *thinks for a nanosecond* Wonderful 101.

 

[Luigifan18]

Which is a shame, as Splatoon has now made the jump to Switch, we need a purely Wii U IP to be represented. *thinks for a nanosecond* Wonderful 101.

Hey, both Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta are made by Platinum Games. I think it could work.

 

[Penroze]

Which is a shame, as Splatoon has now made the jump to Switch, we need a purely Wii U IP to be represented. *thinks for a nanosecond* Wonderful 101.

We need the Wii U itself in the same vein as .

 

[osby]

Hey, both Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta are made by Platinum Games. I think it could work.

Hey, Bayonetta was literally in Wonderful 101, and they were directed by the same guy, so it would be great having a character from that in Smash. #moreKamiyabias

We need the Wii U itself in the same vein as .

Yep. In order to attack you need to draw what you want to to the Wii U pad with joysticks.

 

[Zinith]

Which is a shame, as Splatoon has now made the jump to Switch, we need a purely Wii U IP to be represented. *thinks for a nanosecond* Wonderful 101.

Oh, I have a "Wii U only" character in mind...

Spoiler

Edit: GAH!!! Every image I try to pull up is broken...

 

[CosmicQuark]

Oh, I have a "Wii U only" character in mind...

Spoiler

We need Dr. Yoshi. Though, he'd probably just gobble up all the pills.

 

[Deleted member]

Reminder that Game Freak could suddenly decide to release Pokémon games outside of Nintendo consoles if they want to.

 

[Luigifan18]

Oh, I have a "Wii U only" character in mind...

Spoiler

Edit: GAH!!! Every image I try to pull up is broken...

Oh, so it's not just me.