Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[amazonevan19]

There's no cat

...yet

 

[Zinith]

As are all memes lol

Do you know what memes are, right?

You just described all memes. Even the good ones.

When it's used to discuss anything Yoshi related in bad faith, then it wore out it's welcome

I should note that the person who runs the Ultimate Yoshi Discord bans anyone who uses the meme. I don't blame him

 

[Noipoi]

When it's used to discuss anything Yoshi related in bad faith, then it wore out it's welcome

I should note that the person who runs the Ultimate Yoshi Discord bans anyone who uses the meme. I don't blame him

I still think it's funny.

What would a Yoshi be doing with taxes? He's a dinosaur they don't pay taxes!

The absurdity amuses me.

 

[UberMadman]

Yo i'm a bit late for the sassy Geno talk but I just came back from a bit of time travelling (just did some archeology in the Geno thread actually...) to find the source/origin of the sassy Geno, i was just curious. I compiled a bit of info in the process, i'm just sharing it in case some people are interested.

The image was posted on 4chan at some point (the link is broken) and reposted on the Geno thread on September 1st by PsychoIncarnate and then by KCCHIEFS27. I wonder if they remember anything about the OP? Probably not, it's been awhile and around that time there was a bunch of fake Geno leaks floating around (plus this was the time of the Agnés Agnès fake leak... which was drainning a lot of attention).

Some people speculated that the pose could be part of Geno idle animation (or more recently, that it could be a taunt). After some talk, it just got lost in the storm of fake leaks and was never debunked.

The only time it was almost debunked was when someone re-posted this tweet from Nibroc.rock:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

But the conlusion came quickly that the models were not the same (and that the gif was probably a joke inspired by the leaked image itself).

I'm not saying it's 100% a real leak but there was no conclusive attempts to debunk it yet so i'm thinking it's potentially a real leak at this point (yeah i'm biased tho, i love Geno).

That's it! My work here is done! See ya!

Note: I'm going back to bed, i'm sick af... winter is coming and so is the flu... :S

Great analysis, even better gif. Thanks for bringing it to my attention; I hope to get good use out of this.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Aurane]

When it's used to discuss anything Yoshi related in bad faith, then it wore out it's welcome

Zinith stamping out Yoshi discrimination.

 

[osby]

I still think it's funny.

What would a Yoshi be doing with taxes? He's a dinosaur they don't pay taxes!

The absurdity amuses me.

Bold of you to assume dinosaurs don't pay taxes. Why do you know so much about the social economy of the Jurassic era, hmm?

 

[Idon]

We all talk about Yoshi committing tax evasion but everyone seems to forget the fact that Wario's gaming development company is a front for his criminal organization.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Bold of you to assume dinosaurs don't pay taxes. Why do you know so much about the social economy of the Jurassic era, hmm?

Well, I know the social economics of the Precambrian era very well, and there wasn't really much around then.

 

[Aurane]

We all talk about Yoshi committing tax evasion but everyone seems to forget the fact that Wario's gaming development company is a front for his criminal organization.

That's too obvious.

 

[Noipoi]

We all talk about Yoshi committing tax evasion but everyone seems to forget the fact that Wario's gaming development company is a front for his criminal organization.

Wario's a slimy guy though. It's to be expected from a low-life like him.

When I look at Yoshi's happy green face and think of Tax Evasion it makes me giggle.

 

[Zinith]

When I first heard the tax fraud meme, I smiled slightly because it was an absurd thought. That lasted for about 15 seconds before it became not funny anymore...

 

[osby]

Well, I know the social economics of the Precambrian era very well, and there wasn't really much around then.

Maybe they have made some progress until Cretaceous era.

 

[Noipoi]

Maybe they have made some progress until Cretaceous era.

The Pre-Historic Economy was booming, but then an actual boom put an end to that.

 

[Zinith]

I'm not gonna lie, I actually prefer the "Yoshi sacrifice" meme more. It's nasty, mean-spirited and unnecessary, but at least there's a frame-of-reference for why it's a thing...

 

[Firewolf73]

It was a mistranslation on NOA's part, It's actually her Link to the Past design (A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds have almost the exact same Japanese name (Triforce of the Gods and Triforce of the Gods 2, respectively), aside from a 2 being added).

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Because of that, I kinda doubt that Hilda's gonna be a Zelda echo...

Honestly tho the ultimate zelda design is clearly inspired by both. That twitter image fails to mention a lot of things that point to ALBW for inspiration. The trifforce in the dress, the hair and even the length of the cape.

Sakurai clearly was inspired by both games. ALBW also was around the year that Ultimate’s roster was being finalized so Sakurai had to notice Hilda and at least make an alt of her and so far there isn’t one (No, the dark Zelda isn’t Hilda).

 

[Dyllybirdy]

The Pre-Historic Economy was booming, but then an actual boom put an end to that.

Well, fortunately, things started picking back up again in the Danian...

 

[osby]

Well, fortunately, things started picking back up again in the Danian...

It's not the end of Paleocene era, they still have time to **** things up.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

It's not the end of Paleocene era, they still have time to **** things up.

But it was during the Lutetian, when things started to get really good again!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

.



I'm not sure why Nintendo would specifically give him anything considering he's a youtube pirate.

Ad...ver...ti...sing?

Nintendo's Creator Program made sure that there are no "YouTube Pirates" for them. Like, 5 years ago or something.

 

[CosmicQuark]

My take on the Xenoblade hint--since using the menu music was authorized by Nintendo, I see no reason to suspect the same person would give unauthorized hints, or that Nintendo would even give them sensitive information that they didn't want to become public knowledge to begin with. My guess is it's a hint to authorized music that he might share next.

I'm not gonna lie, I actually prefer the "Yoshi sacrifice" meme more. It's nasty, mean-spirited and unnecessary, but at least there's a frame-of-reference for why it's a thing...

So it's less the negative implications, and more that it's a non-sequitur.

 

[Fenriraga]

One question about the Geno leak.

Did it happen before or after the Smash Direct?

Because I recall we didn't know about Delfino until Rodin, and I believe that wasn't that long before the Direct.

EDIT: DEFINITELY after, so nevermind.

 

[ZephyrZ]

So I am working on that video I'd say I'd make (turns out video editing is easier then I thought it'd be) and while yes, I am including the tax fraud scene for Yoshi I'm giving him a second clip that isn't dependent on a nonsensical meme as well. If anything Yoshi is getting special treatment by having two clips rather then one.

I do like Yoshi, Zinith. I really do. But I'm a little bit of a ****poster at times and sometimes unfunny meme oppertunities are too good to pass up.

 

[Zinith]

So it's less the negative implications, and more that it's a non-sequitur.

That, and it's also the context it's used for. "Hey, here's something I made about Yoshi." "Oh, about how he's a tax evading criminal?!!" "No, it's something that was made in earnest, which is the exact opposite of what the tax fraud stuff is about"

So I guess it boils down to "earnesty."

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I didn't have time to do a proper post earlier when we were doing satisfaction with newcomers and returning veterans, so I'm going to just do it now:

Returning Veterans:
8/10 One of the two pretty much given characters for whatever the next Smash game was. I knew we'd be seeing them return in a new game after their absence in the last game and how much of an outcry that caused. They seemed to be a favorite of Sakurai's too. Expected, but glad for their return.
8/10 A genuine surprise as I kind of figured the Pokemon Trainer concept was dead. I actually do really like Squirtle and Ivysaur, but I just kind of wish they all got to be separate slots as opposed to bundled under Pokemon Trainer. I've never loved the Pokemon Trainer's concept, but I do think you can do interesting things with him.
10/10 The first genuine surprise of Ultimate was his return. After all the Konami junk in recent years, I figured they were kind of out of the game for good. I always really liked Snake in Brawl too, so it was a shame. But oh boy, when he returned and that, Everyone is Here banner first popped up, I was genuinely hype and excited. He's a weird Smash character in all honesty, and I love him all the more for it.
5/10 Oh, yes, they meant everyone. Never really cared for the admittedly adorable puff ball, and I kind of like the fact that we have a 100% bonafide joke character back in Smash. That said... he's a very easy character to just leave on the table and not think much about.
4/10 Oh, yep, everyone. I know Toon Link replacing Young Link isn't exactly correct, and I do like some of Young Link's properties from what we've seen of the game, but boy... He feels super redundant at this point. Along with Pichu, I could very easily leave him but he's one of the easiest characters for me to cut if we ever needed to make a cut. Especially if we're not going to end up with a proper Zelda newcomer yet again.
10/10 Super expected, but damn if he doesn't look as satisfying as ever to play. They've taken some time to really make his kit a little more interesting as well, so I'm glad to see his return in Ultimate.

Newcomers:
9/10 The most obvious character pick of all time, and one that Sakurai has done some serious justice to. I really love their moveset, and they've had a lot of care and attention paid to them. I kind of fell in love with Splatoon 2 over the summer, so that helps tremendously too.
5/10 or Complete Indifference - Alright, so we got clone character backs and Daisy is in. Makes sense... I really don't care about her all that much, but at least her animations are different and nice enough I suppose.
HOLY ****/10 Yeah, I'm a big Ridley supporter ever since I joined this site back in the Smash 4 speculation. I really didn't expect him ever to be honest, and to finally see him make his playable debut was amazing. He was a huge (No pun intended) reason Ultimate hype just sort of kicked off for me.
10/10 Classic design. Check. Huge Castlevania fan. Check. Inspired move set with an amazing reveal and stage. Check, check, and check. My most wanted third party newcomer (That doesn't have weird history with Nintendo, Banjo and Geno I mean) made it in. Leaks didn't spoil his amazing reveal.
Didn't Know I Wanted til I Saw, 10/10 Like I said, I love Castlevania. To actually know Richter when he showed up and realize what was going on was incredible. To me, he is one of the most inspired Echo fighters and just makes a lot of sense. He's also so stylistically different from Simon that it makes him more interesting as well.
2/10 And on the opposite spectrum, we have a much less interesting Echo choice. I have no problem with more Fire Emblem, but boy he's the worst possible pick for the name of Fire Emblem in Smash. Another blue-haired sword-wielding protagonist, and is based off of Roy from Marth... Yeah, no, he's the opposite type of Fire Emblem newcomer I wanted. I don't hate Chrom and I'm very happy for his fans to see his arrival, and at least he's got an interesting Echo mechanic/might be better than Roy. It's just he's an Echo of one of the most expendable Smash characters (Roy fans, I'm so sorry) and is yet another representative from Awakening. Again, super glad for the fans as with any supported character, but he's just kind of a there pick for me.
8/10 After Ridley I didn't really expect any Metroid newcomers... ever in Smash? Like I was ecstatic we managed to get Ridley, so I didn't really expect to get a second. After Echo fighters were revealed though, Dark Samus made sense. The look of the character is what sold me, there's so much attention given to the details and animations that I really, really enjoy what they've done with her...it... Samus isn't the best move set in the game though.
Another HOLY ****/10 King K. Rool was my number two if Ridley was my number one, and I've really wanted to see him for a long time. I even thought he had honestly better move set potential than Ridley, and the way Sakurai has implemented him confirms that fact. He seems like he is going to be so much fun to play with an interesting and varied move set. Glad to see his triumphant return too as I loved him from DKC.
8/10 I expected her, and I love Animal Crossing, I just never really expected her to be unique. In some ways that was a little disappointing cause I know we only have a few characters left, but on the other, she's just so damn adorable. I kinda wish they'd gone further with her move set as a unique fighter rather than a semi-clone, but Animal Crossing certainly deserves a little bit more representation, so I'll take it.

So yeah. I think it's safe to say that I'm pretty satisfied with the additions to the roster from Smash 4 already. I like all of our new unique fighters, and I'm fine with Echo fighters even if they don't appeal to me. In another game I'd probably be much more upset about Chrom and Daisy, but I know they're requested and those fan bases deserve to be heard as much as the rest. Pichu and Young Link are super weird to have back as well, but hey the Everyone is Here does sort of require them. But even then, I think Sakurai has done a phenomenal job in making a game that can appeal to all sorts of Smash fans with the resources he's been given. I hope the remaining newcomers can continue to inspire as much hype and love for the game.

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

this is too much nintendo give us a direcct!!!!!

 

[Jetsurge]

4/10 Oh, yep, everyone. I know Toon Link replacing Young Link isn't exactly correct, and I do like some of Young Link's properties from what we've seen of the game, but boy... He feels super redundant at this point. Along with Pichu, I could very easily leave him but he's one of the easiest characters for me to cut if we ever needed to make a cut. Especially if we're not going to end up with a proper Zelda newcomer yet again.

Young Link the Hero of Time is a different character to Toon Link the Hero of Winds. OOT/MM Link is the best Link so I'm glad he's back.

 

[Darkraid]

I wish Smash is released today... I have a 17 hour flight and although i have a ton of games in my Arsenal, i would really love to play smash on the plane.

 

[osby]

Young Link the Hero of Time is a different character to Toon Link the Hero of Winds. OOT/MM Link is the best Link so I'm glad he's back.

I didn't liked Young Link in Melee so much because he felt really um... unnecessary, to be honest. But now that Link is from Breath of the Wild, he's the one and only hero of time.

(I liked most but I got to play as him two games straight, I have no reason to complain)

 

[UberMadman]

A lot of people want me to talk about the Banjo/Dixie/Geno leak. So here's my thoughts on the matter.

I'm sorry I don't know who drew the Geno reaction picture, but it's amazing. (please let me know if it was you)

Let's "critique the leak": pic.twitter.com/8MucR3xY2Z

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 2, 2018

So... what does everyone think of this thread by PushDustIn from September 2nd?

 

[osby]

Smash confessions: It makes sense is not an echo, but for a reason I'll miss seeing him together with and .

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Young Link the Hero of Time is a different character to Toon Link the Hero of Winds. OOT/MM Link is the best Link so I'm glad he's back.

I'm aware that they are different characters. Just functionally they play reminiscent of one another with similar builds and overall move sets. I know Toon Link and Young Link are pretty diverse despite having such similar move sets, but again, I find they both fill the same role/kind of character in the game. I admit I'm probably generalizing way too much with them, but I personally find them a little redundant is all. I would have loved to have seen Young Link evolve in to a more nuanced portrayal of OoT/MM Link, either with an emphasis on the unique aspects of Young Link that don't get attention such as the slingshot and mirror shield among others, or if my dreams were really being met, a mask transformation based Majora's Mask Link.

I just want more diversity in my Zelda representation beyond aesthetic, and having three different Links that have so many similarities (despite how they may play in practice) just isn't diverse enough in my opinion. Despite having six characters at this point, three are incredibly similar comparatively speaking, and one has tragically been forced to co-opt a weird move set for him (Even the sword is strange when you think about it, but I'm glad it's finally there all the same), and the other one is generally always a terribly low tier. Shiek of all characters seems to have the best representation and status outside of just Link.

That's insulting to Zelda when it's such a huge franchise for Nintendo, especially when it comes to critical acclaim and legacy in addition to great sales. There's so much diversity the series has to offer, especially when you take a look at Hyrule Warrios and just how much Smash could seriously pull from. That's one of the reasons I still hope that Skull Kid makes it in so we can have something a little different and unique for a series that hasn't had a newcomer since Brawl, and a truly unique one since Melee.

 

[Zinith]

Smash confessions: It makes sense is not an echo, but for a reason I'll miss seeing him together with and .

I would participate in those confessions, but I don't think I have anything to confess

 

[Shadowwolflink]

Smash confessions: It makes sense is not an echo, but for a reason I'll miss seeing him together with and .

I won't be missing anything about those 3 being off in their own little group, away from their respective franchises. I think that was an ugly design choice.

 

[Darkraid]

A lot of people want me to talk about the Banjo/Dixie/Geno leak. So here's my thoughts on the matter.

I'm sorry I don't know who drew the Geno reaction picture, but it's amazing. (please let me know if it was you)

Let's "critique the leak": pic.twitter.com/8MucR3xY2Z

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 2, 2018

So... what does everyone think of this thread by PushDustIn from September 2nd?

So... Much... Fake

 

[Gyrom8]

I'm aware that they are different characters. Just functionally they play reminiscent of one another with similar builds and overall move sets. I know Toon Link and Young Link are pretty diverse despite having such similar move sets, but again, I find they both fill the same role/kind of character in the game. I admit I'm probably generalizing way too much with them, but I personally find them a little redundant is all. I would have loved to have seen Young Link evolve in to a more nuanced portrayal of OoT/MM Link, either with an emphasis on the unique aspects of Young Link that don't get attention such as the slingshot and mirror shield among others, or if my dreams were really being met, a mask transformation based Majora's Mask Link.

I just want more diversity in my Zelda representation beyond aesthetic, and having three different Links that have so many similarities (despite how they may play in practice) just isn't diverse enough in my opinion. Despite having six characters at this point, three are incredibly similar comparatively speaking, and one has tragically been forced to co-opt a weird move set for him (Even the sword is strange when you think about it, but I'm glad it's finally there all the same), and the other one is generally always a terribly low tier. Shiek of all characters seems to have the best representation and status outside of just Link.

That's insulting to Zelda when it's such a huge franchise for Nintendo, especially when it comes to critical acclaim and legacy in addition to great sales. There's so much diversity the series has to offer, especially when you take a look at Hyrule Warrios and just how much Smash could seriously pull from. That's one of the reasons I still hope that Skull Kid makes it in so we can have something a little different and unique for a series that hasn't had a newcomer since Brawl, and a truly unique one since Melee.

I agree - it's a shame that all the Links have such similar movesets given how many different items there are in Zelda. The hammer, fire rod, ice rod, pegasus boots, Roc's cape, more elemental arrows etc. True, most of these aren't actually used by BOTW/Young/Toon Link, but then Ness apparently has a load of moves he doesn't use in Earthbound, so I don't think its that important.

 

[osby]

I'm aware that they are different characters. Just functionally they play reminiscent of one another with similar builds and overall move sets. I know Toon Link and Young Link are pretty diverse despite having such similar move sets, but again, I find they both fill the same role/kind of character in the game. I admit I'm probably generalizing way too much with them, but I personally find them a little redundant is all. I would have loved to have seen Young Link evolve in to a more nuanced portrayal of OoT/MM Link, either with an emphasis on the unique aspects of Young Link that don't get attention such as the slingshot and mirror shield among others, or if my dreams were really being met, a mask transformation based Majora's Mask Link.

I just want more diversity in my Zelda representation beyond aesthetic, and having three different Links that have so many similarities (despite how they may play in practice) just isn't diverse enough in my opinion. Despite having six characters at this point, three are incredibly similar comparatively speaking, and one has tragically been forced to co-opt a weird move set for him (Even the sword is strange when you think about it, but I'm glad it's finally there all the same), and the other one is generally always a terribly low tier. Shiek of all characters seems to have the best representation and status outside of just Link.

That's insulting to Zelda when it's such a huge franchise for Nintendo, especially when it comes to critical acclaim and legacy in addition to great sales. There's so much diversity the series has to offer, especially when you take a look at Hyrule Warrios and just how much Smash could seriously pull from. That's one of the reasons I still hope that Skull Kid makes it in so we can have something a little different and unique for a series that hasn't had a newcomer since Brawl, and a truly unique one since Melee.

Just my minor gripes but Zelda being low tier has absolutely nothing to do with how Zelda is represented and if does Kirby needs a newcomer more. Also, I don't agree with Hyrule Warriors being a good source for Smash. It's fun but most "movesets" are just throwing hitboxes around.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

A lot of people want me to talk about the Banjo/Dixie/Geno leak. So here's my thoughts on the matter.

I'm sorry I don't know who drew the Geno reaction picture, but it's amazing. (please let me know if it was you)

Let's "critique the leak": pic.twitter.com/8MucR3xY2Z

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 2, 2018

So... what does everyone think of this thread by PushDustIn from September 2nd?

Oh! Damn! Thx, that was the info i was looking for earlier! (the origin of the Geno leak)

Great to have Pushdustin's insight on this. So it was a bundle of leaks then... sausage fingers/dead inside Banjo is making me doubt about this tbh, that and the thing about the OP of the leaks and his writing... that would be a very well crafted fake then... I can't analyze much else for now, i'm a bit tired...

For now I'll just say.... .. .

 

[ZephyrZ]

Confession time, eh?

When Smash 4 first came out, I actually didn't plan on maining Solo Charizard. I experimented with a lot of characters (mainly) until Zard finally just clicked with me and stuck. Only then did I become the devoted loyalist I am today. For a while I actually did main Dark Pit.

When I was little and first played Brawl, I thought was a friendly Koopa because of that shell on his back. I knew very little about anything not Pokemon back then. I didn't actually own my own copy and rarely got the chance to play it, so I never actually learned how to play the game until 4. I thought the A button was exclusively used for items, that B was the attack button, and didn't even know you could grab or taunt. I'll have to learn Ivy and Squirt entirely from the ground up when Ultimate drops.

I really hope Pichu still sucks because that's the point of the character to me. If the character is more powerful then Pikachu to balance the recoil as rumored then I'll be very dissapointed and will probably play him less then if he was just as joke.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Speaking of Venusaur did it blow anyone else's mind that the whole bulbasaur line is more based on frogs than dinosaurs?

Just learned about that the other day.

Wait what?

When did this happen?

The body structure doesn't resemble an amphibian at all

EDIT: Just read about the interview of Ken Sugimori. Consider me surprised.

 

[osby]

I won't be missing anything about those 3 being off in their own little group, away from their respective franchises. I think that was an ugly design choice.

I don't think it was a good idea but I liked them having their little corner. I don't like how Wolf, Jigglypuff and Toon Link wasn't in the story mode but illogical parts of my mind made a little fun group out of them to explain their absense.

It's just dumb things I think for fun.

Wait what?

When did this happen?

The body structure doesn't resemble an amphibian at all

Frogs might still be in their minds while designing them, it's evident from the things like their mouths. Mudkip's body shape also isn't like the animal he based from.