Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[monadoboy]

"no non videogame originating content" rule

If anything can kick that "rule" away it's Pokemon.

 

[NineS]

So... random question, aside from Incineroar, do you guys think we'll get some characters that are not really that requested that much?

I definitely think that, aside from Incineroar, we'll get characters that are not requested as much as Ken, Shadow, Geno, etc.
Problem is, I'm having a fairly hard time being able to come up with one. I'm still expecting that one "out of nowhere" Character that people didn't see coming, no one unironically asked for, but we're all still happy that made it in. Smash Ultimate's own Wii Fit Trainer, Game & Watch or R.O.B. reveal.

 

[osby]

So... random question, aside from Incineroar, do you guys think we'll get some characters that are not really that requested that much?
I mean Sakurai likes to throw a couple curve balls at us

I think depends on the definition. I don't think we'll get a "wait, they can be playable!?" character akin to , or , as cool as that would be. Though it's entirely possible getting a character like , popular to an extend but flew under most people's radars.

Looking at this, it's still mind-blowing to see so many fan favorites and amazing characters finally coming together in one game.

It's literally becoming everything we've ever wanted combined into one.
I just wonder.. Now that we have gotten these amazing characters we have been asking for since melee and brawl, what will people begin to cheer on next? What will become "the next Ridley/K. Rool/Geno" of the years of Smash to come?

Waluigi.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I definitely think that, aside from Incineroar, we'll get characters that are not requested as much as Ken, Shadow, Geno, etc.
Problem is, I'm having a fairly hard time being able to come up with one. I'm still expecting that one "out of nowhere" Character that people didn't see coming, no one unironically asked for, but we're all still happy that made it in. Smash Ultimate's own Wii Fit Trainer, Game & Watch or R.O.B. reveal.

The three that come to mind for me are Elma (Sakurai buying that mech model for "research"), A Rhythm Heaven Rep (One being planned for Smash 4), and some random retro character like Mach Rider or something (Though I think that is kinda unlikley compared to the other two)...

 

[Door Key Pig]

It's literally becoming everything we've ever wanted combined into one.
I just wonder.. Now that we have gotten these amazing characters we have been asking for since melee and brawl, what will people begin to cheer on next? What will become "the next Ridley/K. Rool/Geno" of the years of Smash to come?

Who knows? Crash Bandicoot? X assist trophy character?
But yeah, as we're widdling down requests with confirmations and deconfirmations, we have to get to Crash eventually!

The three that come to mind for me are Elma (Sakurai buying that mech model for "research"), A Rhythm Heaven Rep (One being planned for Smash 4), and some random retro character like Mach Rider or something (Though I think that is kinda unlikley compared to the other two)...

YES. RH character please!!

 

[NineS]

Waluigi.

Waluigi is definitely the top contender for that "Captain America" spot Ridley holds, according to Japan.
Another few strong top contenders that have already been deconfirmed are probably going to be Ashley and definitely Shovel Knight, assuming his popularity doesn't die out.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

So... random question, aside from Incineroar, do you guys think we'll get some characters that are not really that requested that much?
I mean Sakurai likes to throw a couple curve balls at us

Absolutely. Few newcomers or not the man often sees what we don’t and I think there might be one or two characters that catch the community off-guard.

 

[NineS]

Absolutely. Few newcomers or not the man often sees what we don’t and I think there might be one or two characters that catch the community off-guard.

It's Sakurai. And it wouldn't be Sakurai if he didn't make at least one completely unpredictable and off the rails, but still great and well-thought out move.

But let's not bring Bayonetta up.
What's that you say? No one brought her up until I did? . . . Good.

 

[Gyrom8]

Now that we have gotten these amazing characters we have been asking for since melee and brawl, what will people begin to cheer on next? What will become "the next Ridley/K. Rool/Geno" of the years of Smash to come?

Isaac. I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but I can honestly see one of the big remaining long-standing Smash requests not making the cut, much to their fanbase's disappointment. And something's telling me that Isaac is going to be that guy.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So, if Ultimate were to receive seven updates that each added four new characters and three new stages, which characters and stages would you add?

As in free updates pre-paid DLC? And assuming Ken and Incineroar are it for base?

In my case:

Elma
Waddle Dee
Black Shadow
Neku Sakuraba

Lake Ciel (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Minecraft stage (if not in base)
Shibuya (TWEWY)

(Edit) I just saw the revised rules. I’ll redo shortly, I just woke up

 

[NineS]

Isaac. I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but I can honestly see one of the big remaining long-standing Smash requests not making the cut, much to their fanbase's disappointment. And something's telling me that Isaac is going to be that guy.

Fair enough. I can definitely see it happening as much as I'd hate to admit it.

But I can't see him not making it as DLC at some point, if not the base game.

 

[Door Key Pig]

How so? I'm curious. (Not that I care about Golden Sun outside of Smash context)

 

[Jetsurge]

If anything can kick that "rule" away it's Pokemon.

Funny how Ash is a part of Smash now. The only Greninja that can transform into Ash-Greninja is his Greninja.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

How so? I'm curious. (Not that I care about Golden Sun outside of Smash context)

I think it's probably because the series has been dormant for a while, but it's not really old enough to be a retro rep?... idk that's just my theory...

 

[Door Key Pig]

I think it's probably because the series has been dormant for a while, but it's not really old enough to be a retro rep... idk that's just my theory...

But King K. Rool? If Isaac was at least somewhat as fan requested as K. Rool and during the Smash 4 era he might have a shot, though I also wonder how easy he could return as an assist character...

 

[CosmicQuark]

How so? I'm curious. (Not that I care about Golden Sun outside of Smash context)

I think it's because while Isaac was considered highly likely, we're starting to wind down as we approach the end game, and it's difficult when it comes to characters that seem highly likely--but don't have any direct rumors swirling around them. Isaac's still my top pick for a unique first party character from a new series, as we only have Splatoon at this point.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Eh, it's not like Vergeben knew about K Rool or the ENTIRE roster tho.

 

[NineS]

Out of absurd desperation, impatience, and boredom, I am doing to make a deal with the devil:
We will have a Nintendo Direct tomorrow, or announced tomorrow.
End of story.

I have nothing to lose, as I have already lost my dignity years ago.
Well, I suppose I could lose credibility, but I'm not a leaker, or very good at speculating either way. Worst case scenario: I look desperate and insane.

Today is the day I test myself, and see if my willpower yesterday was enough to force a major Smash announcement into existence.
I already come off as slightly insane just by supporting 2B, and admitting it. I also come off as self-deprecating by admitting this and what came before this as well. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So... random question, aside from Incineroar, do you guys think we'll get some characters that are not really that requested that much?
I mean Sakurai likes to throw a couple curve balls at us

Probably.

were all largely unexpected at the time of their inclusion so I think it's one of the more reliable Smash patterns. So far Richter's the only new real curve ball unless you were super pessimistic about Ridley and K. Rool.

 

[Jetsurge]

I think it's probably because the series has been dormant for a while, but it's not really old enough to be a retro rep?... idk that's just my theory...

"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai

 

[osby]

Probably.

were all largely unexpected at the time of their inclusion so I think it's one of the more reliable Smash patterns. So far Richter's the only new real curve ball unless you were super pessimistic about Ridley and K. Rool.

Marth might be predictable to the fans in Japan but aside from that I agree.

 

[Gyrom8]

How so? I'm curious. (Not that I care about Golden Sun outside of Smash context)

Several of the big remaining requests have possible hints in their direction. While he's not infallible, Vergeben has been largely correct regarding Smash and is saying we're getting a Square Enix rep and Minecraft content, the latter of which involves Microsoft being on board. Geno could be that mysterious Square Enix rep and Microsoft involvement raises the prospects that we could get Banjo further down the line as DLC.

As for Isaac, there hasn't really been any credible leaks pointing in his direction. The most I'm aware we have is a screenshot by Sakurai that sort of looks like the Golden Sun battle screen. No offence, but that's about the same level of 'proof' as the chair theory - and I say this as a Skull Kid supporter. Of course, a lack of evidence doesn't mean that a character isn't getting in - K. Rool wasn't leaked. But K. Rool's popularity was at least acknowledged with a mii fighter costume which Isaac didn't get. While they aren't a guarantee that a character will be playable, Mii Fighter costumes did at least feel like a consolation prize, acknowledging that a character was popular. I don't doubt that Isaac is popular and probably did well in the ballot, but he doesn't really appear to be on Sakurai's radar for some reason.

Honestly though, my scepticism basically boils down to me thinking that the fanservice in Ultimate is raising expectations and is going to leave one fanbase very disappointed. I don't want this to be the case, as Isaac fans have been waiting for a long, long time, but I just feel that he's not going to make it.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Eh, it's not like Vergeben knew about K Rool or the ENTIRE roster tho.

My hope is that there are characters Verge has yet to rumor. Unfortunately, there's a lot of characters that are likely/have reasons to be in, and they all can't be in. To me, in order of likelihood of characters not mentioned by Verge that have a chance to be in the base game (imho): Geno (tho that would be the SE rep in this case), Shadow, Banjo & Kazooie, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Skull Kid, Bandana Waddle Dee, Sora, Steve, Elma, Chorus Kids, Dante, Lloyd or Heihachi. There's probably more that I'm forgetting, but who makes it in all depends on how many characters we have left.

And I should reiterate that this is my opinion based on combination of rumors/predictions/guesses, and of course, others would have different lists.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai

I mean, by that logic, Mother and F-Zero should’ve been cut a long time ago and EVERYONE IS HERE shouldn’t have even happened.
Cough, Metal Gear, cough.

 

[Untouch]

But King K. Rool? If Isaac was at least somewhat as fan requested as K. Rool and during the Smash 4 era he might have a shot, though I also wonder how easy he could return as an assist character...

I don't think K Rool is comparable. People have been clamouring for his return to the DKC series, I remember there being a large uproar when DKCR didn't have him.
Even if he didn't appear in a game for a while, the character outside of smash speculation was still popular and the series is still popular.

 

[link2702]

And the spambots return.
Seriously Smashboards put in some sort of image verification system or something that makes it harder for spambots to sign up.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

But King K. Rool? If Isaac was at least somewhat as fan requested as K. Rool and during the Smash 4 era he might have a shot, though I also wonder how easy he could return as an assist character...

Hmm... good point... Yeah, idk... maybe it's because Camelot has no intent on reviving the series or something...
Yeah, I got nothing

"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai

Yeah, that's what I assumed

 

[Untouch]

I mean, by that logic, Mother and F-Zero should’ve been cut a long time ago and EVERYONE IS HERE shouldn’t have even happened.
Cough, Metal Gear, cough.

When Ness/Captain falcon were added, they were popular characters. We got several FZero games from that point on and were getting another Eartbound game. I think that if they were going to do a reboot or if the game was made this year they'd likely not make the cut though.

Same with Snake, MGS4 was coming out soon as well.

 

[Cosmic77]

"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai
"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen." - Sakurai

Emphasis on the word "rarely". Pit and KI were basically dead before Brawl, but Smash inspired Sakurai to make a third entry for the dormant franchise.

Granted, I suppose you could argue Pit was a "retro rep", but the takeaway point is that he got in Smash despite his series being inactive. Isaac is unlikely to be prioritized over newer and more iconic faces, but it ain't impossible.

 

[Jetsurge]

Emphasis on the word "rarely". Pit and KI were basically dead before Brawl, but Smash inspired Sakurai to make a third entry for the dormant franchise.

Granted, I suppose you could argue Pit was a "retro rep", but the takeaway point is that he got in Smash despite his series being inactive. Isaac is unlikely to be prioritized over newer and more iconic faces, but it ain't impossible.

New Sakurai bias confirmed. Retro bias.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

When Ness/Captain falcon were added, they were popular characters. We got several FZero games from that point on and were getting another Eartbound game. I think that if they were going to do a reboot or if the game was made this year they'd likely not make the cut though.

Same with Snake, MGS4 was coming out soon as well.

They were popular characters once upon a time. People seem to have forgotten that it’s not just a matter of choosing newcomers, but veterans too.
Hell, I’ll go a step further and say if we’re counting out any and all franchises with no future, then Samus should not have been in Sm4sh.

 

[osby]

I mean, by that logic, Mother and F-Zero should’ve been cut a long time ago and EVERYONE IS HERE shouldn’t have even happened.
Cough, Metal Gear, cough.

This rule applies to newcomers, not to veterans.

 

[NineS]

Emphasis on the word "rarely". Pit and KI were basically dead before Brawl, but Smash inspired Sakurai to make a third entry for the dormant franchise.

Granted, I suppose you could argue Pit was a "retro rep", but the takeaway point is that he got in Smash despite his series being inactive. Isaac is unlikely to be prioritized over newer and more iconic faces, but it ain't impossible.

To be fair, it's entirely different to compare Pit joining in to Isaac. Seeing as, Sakurai essentially 'adopted' Kid icarus as his own from then, to Uprising, which we can assume was being planned for a while. Toss in the scrapped Kid icarus game that we were going to get for the Wii, and it's an entirely different situation from the one Isaac is in. That is, unless, hopefully another developer/company has taken Golden Sun under it's wing and is developing a new game for it as we speak.

 

[Michele]

Hello, I am sorry that I have been inactive lately.

Now, I am not sure if it's just me, but I feel like this is the last day. If there is no direct today which I'm sure won't happen (because of Nintendo usually doing it on weekdays), then the Playlist theory is shattered.

I feel like Sakurai has been destorying theories left and right.

 

[TreeBranch]

I'm not very confident in Isaac either. If highly requested characters such as Krystal couldn't make it, I have a hard time believing Isaac could. He's from a dead franchise, and unless he got K Rool sized votes in the ballot, I don't see him happening. I want him to make it, for the fans' sake. As a big Rhythm Heaven fan, I know I'm going to be extremely disappointed if it doesn't get repped. It's unlikely Golden Sun will get much if Isaac's not playable either, which sucks.

 

[Pazzo.]

: I'm back, suckas.

 

[Untouch]

Hello, I am sorry that I have been inactive lately.

Now, I am not sure if it's just me, but I feel like this is the last day. If there is no direct today which I'm sure won't happen (because of Nintendo usually doing it on weekdays), then the Playlist theory is shattered.

I feel like Sakurai has been destorying theories left and right.

The playlist theory required a reveal 10 days after the playlist updated, we've past that.
At the very most we could get a direct announcement for monday but I don't find that likely.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I remember something about Pokemon Trainer representing any Pokemon trainer or something, but I don't know if that includes Team Rocket/Grunt/Etc. The only question is how'd they work: Like Pokemon Trainer or do they fight on their own??

I’d love a Rocket Grunt costume.
Squirtle gets his Squad shades
Charizard gets his proper shiny color
Ivysaur gets a darker color and a black rose

 

[ShadowYoshi04]

Uh... Geno? Isaac?

Isaac is definitely not as requested as Banjo..

 

[CosmicQuark]

This rule applies to newcomers, not to veterans.

To be fair, every veteran was a newcomer at some point. I think it's a quote we should keep in mind, but the "rarely" gives leniency to allow for other possibilities outside of "relevant" characters, particularly since relevancy has barely mattered this time around, so far.

EDIT:

Isaac is definitely not as requested as Banjo..

I think he has been. Isaac was second to Banjo in the Reddit poll recently, and there are some polls where Isaac tops the list. So I feel like Banjo, Isaac and Geno all have similar amount of popularity, from what we can gather.