Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Vasculio]

Honestly a Grand Theft Auto type game would be great with F-Zero. By that I mean a sci-fi and rated T version with no real guns or sex. In this game you can select the various F-Zero characters and drive your vehicle around an open world Mute City completing missions or just messing around. Depending on what character you are playing as, your missions will be very different. Will you collect bounties as Captain Falcon? Or will you commit crime as Black Shadow? The choice is yours.

Not a bad idea at all! I would like that!

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, I think my boiling over point was when the theoryocalypse started.


Chairs was....dumb, and still is dumb, but it was dumb in a funny conspiracy theory kind of way.

Box theory I'm neutral on in general.

Music theory I have nothing nice to say about, nor to its biggest spokesperson, and am fully glad it's six feet under.

Blog theory feels hella forced, its creators came off as hilariously rude to people that didn't agree with it, and they have a Discord army to attack anyone who talks it down on reddit.

Card theory is just Box-theory lite.


If Incineroar+Ken are all that's left, I'm perfectly okay with it.

If there's more, I'm also perfectly okay with it.



I just wish that speculation had kept to people like Vergeben and *gag* Loz(I feel dirty saying that), and less on these tinfoil hat-based 'theories'.


Less plastic seats and more Gematsu/Ninka.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Honestly, I think my boiling over point was when the theoryocalypse started.


Chairs was....dumb, and still is dumb, but it was dumb in a funny conspiracy theory kind of way.

Box theory I'm neutral on in general.

Music theory I have nothing nice to say about, nor to its biggest spokesperson, and am fully glad it's six feet under.

Blog theory feels hella forced, its creators came off as hilariously rude to people that didn't agree with it, and they have a Discord army to attack anyone who talks it down on reddit.

Card theory is just Box-theory lite.


If Incineroar+Ken are all that's left, I'm perfectly okay with it.

If there's more, I'm also perfectly okay with it.



I just wish that speculation had kept to people like Vergeben and *gag* Loz, and less on these tinfoil hate-based 'theories'.


Less plastic seats and more Gematsu/Ninka.

While I feel the exact opposite with Box Theory and Blog Theory, I won't lie that all these pseudo science talk really took out the fun from speculating, mostly because while leaks most times don't know the actual roster number, just characters that are in, these theories want to know the final number, which limits tremendously the possible picks. I really think that if people didn't look so obsessively into the Box or the Blog (and news sites didn't reported that much on them) we wouldn't have seen just Incineroar, Ken, Steve and Geno being the only characters speculated for weeks.

I really hope that some odd ball choice like Bandana Dee, Captain Toad, Dedicueye, Elma or really any character that very few see coming gets revealed next, because that will be the only thing that could throw everything out of the window and save this lame speculation from being this repetitive.

 

[NineS]

Honestly, I think my boiling over point was when the theoryocalypse started.


Chairs was....dumb, and still is dumb, but it was dumb in a funny conspiracy theory kind of way.

Box theory I'm neutral on in general.

Music theory I have nothing nice to say about, nor to its biggest spokesperson, and am fully glad it's six feet under.

Blog theory feels hella forced, its creators came off as hilariously rude to people that didn't agree with it, and they have a Discord army to attack anyone who talks it down on reddit.

Card theory is just Box-theory lite.


If Incineroar+Ken are all that's left, I'm perfectly okay with it.

If there's more, I'm also perfectly okay with it.



I just wish that speculation had kept to people like Vergeben and *gag* Loz(I feel dirty saying that), and less on these tinfoil hat-based 'theories'.


Less plastic seats and more Gematsu/Ninka.

It's frustrating, because there's even some 'detractors' for leakers like Vergeben just as there are for theories.

Even though Vergeben has gotten a ridiculous amount of things right, there's people who refuse to believe him no matter what simply because they don't like him or like what he does, or like his leaks.

It's more understandable when someone simply doesn't believe his leaks when it comes to smash, or just doesn't care for it. It's understandable why Vergeben would want to stay off of GameFAQs more often, considering people try to discredit him on there just because he isn't telling them what they want to hear, instead of the things he has gotten wrong Which, in terms of Smash, is nearly nothing.

 

[Zinith]

"Theories" were not supposed to be hardline rules for speculation. They were just loose predictors based on existing patterns which weren't fixed, and I wish more people saw them as such. Instead it was an "either/or" situation. Either you believed wholeheartedly in the theory or you denied them outright, no in-between (which is where I was at).

 

[Iridium]

So, where are we at now? Did I miss anything noteworthy?

 

[Shroob]

While I feel the exact opposite with Box Theory and Blog Theory, I won't lie that all these pseudo science talk really took out the fun from speculating, mostly because while leaks most times don't know the actual roster number, just characters that are in, these theories want to know the final number, which limits tremendously the possible picks. I really think that if people didn't look so obsessively into the Box or the Blog (and news sites didn't reported that much on them) we wouldn't have seen just Incineroar, Ken, Steve and Geno being the only characters speculated for weeks.

I really hope that some odd ball choice like Bandana Dee, Captain Toad, Dedicueye, Elma or really any character that very few see coming gets revealed next, because that will be the only thing that could throw everything out of the window and save this lame speculation from being this repetitive.

I mean, this isn't anything new.

We're less than two months from launch, and more or less by now for most Smash games, we'd know the entire roster via leaks.


Speculation gets 'lame' the closer you get to release, and in a way, I'm fine with it since it's 'stability'.

 

[bobadz]

Did verge say geno and Isaac wern’t in? I heard on another forum he said that on gamefaqs but the thread was deleted.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I mean, this isn't anything new.

We're less than two months from launch, and more or less by now for most Smash games, we'd know the entire roster via leaks.


Speculation gets 'lame' the closer you get to release, and in a way, I'm fine with it since it's 'stability'.

While that is true it has been really lame for the past 2 months, and that is in a very short hype cicle. Plus we never got a Robin reveal this time that trow everything upside down, even tho for a short bit.

 

[Shroob]

While that is true it has been really lame for the past 2 months, and that is in a very short hype cicle. Plus we never got a Robin reveal this time that trow everything upside down, even tho for a short bit.

I blame the past two months being theory hell.




It started with chairs, and now the most recent(Still alive) one is what, blog?

 

[NineS]

Did verge say geno and Isaac wern’t in? I heard on another forum he said that on gamefaqs but the thread was deleted.

Vergeben never said anything about either of those.
Let me recap on some of the things Vergeben has said that have yet to be proven or disproven:

Spoiler: Vergeben's leaks

Ken will be in Smash Ultimate, likely as an Echo Fighter as Ryu.
Incineroar will be in Smash Ultimate as a Playable Character.
Minecraft will be represented in some form for Smash Ultimate, either as a Character, a Stage, an Assist Trophy, or whatever collectibles this game will have (Trophies, stickers, etc...)
This game is going to have another Square Enix rep, that will either be as extremely early DLC or in the base roster. He didn't confirm or deny if it would be Geno, Sora, etc. due to the fact he feels this could put the jobs of his sources at risk due to the way Square Enix is handling things, as they are telling many different employees who the character is so they can single out the moles. He also feels this character is a character that would be best for everyone if they were revealed naturally.

What I'm about to say is less of a leak from him, and just something interesting to note of what he said:

He is saying that Geno is one of the characters Square Enix would pay less attention to if leaked, due to the fact others are already leaking him so often. Whether that confirms or deconfirms the Square Enix character he is leaking is in fact Geno, I'll leave up to you. I've mixed feelings on this one.

It's likely that we will be getting more than Vergeben says, as he usually says, he doesn't know the whole story. Only bits of it. As he never said characters such as K. Rool would be in, but he never said they wouldn't either.

He has yet to say anything about Isaac, however, to answer your question.

 

[Shroob]

My stance is simple:


I don't even want/care about any surprises at this point, I just wanna be done.

If box is right? Okay.

If box is wrong? Okay.

If Verg is legit? Okay.

If he's not legit? Okay.



Just, end the cycle, let us move on from speculation already.

 

[Zinith]

My stance is simple:


I don't even want/care about any surprises at this point, I just wanna be done.

If box is right? Okay.

If box is wrong? Okay.

If Verg is legit? Okay.

If he's not legit? Okay.



Just, end the cycle, let us move on from speculation already.

Well we can't fast forward time, so it's gonna be a little longer. You can't force people to stop speculating and just sit quietly for 2 months.

If it's too much for you to take, then the best avenue would be to just move away from this site, take a hiatus and do some other things to take up your time until Smash Ultimate releases. Many users are doing just that, and though I'd prefer that this site is lively and busy, there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[Gyrom8]

Just, end the cycle, let us move on from speculation already.

... Until the cycle starts again with DLC

 

[Nekoo]

Did verge say geno and Isaac wern’t in? I heard on another forum he said that on gamefaqs but the thread was deleted.

Nah it's mostly what

Vergeben never said anything about either of those.
Let me recap on some of the things Vergeben has said that have yet to be proven or disproven:

Spoiler: Vergeben's leaks

Ken will be in Smash Ultimate, likely as an Echo Fighter as Ryu.
Incineroar will be in Smash Ultimate as a Playable Character.
Minecraft will be represented in some form for Smash Ultimate, either as a Character, a Stage, an Assist Trophy, or whatever collectibles this game will have (Trophies, stickers, etc...)
This game is going to have another Square Enix rep, that will either be as extremely early DLC or in the base roster. He didn't confirm or deny if it would be Geno, Sora, etc. due to the fact he feels this could put the jobs of his sources at risk, and he feels this character is a character that would be best for everyone if they were revealed naturally.

It's likely that we will be getting more than Vergeben says, as he usually says, he doesn't know the whole story. Only bits of it.

Said. He just complained on GameFaqs about people CONSTANTLY tagging him because he doesn't mention their favorite Characters. Or spit on him to be wrong just in a slight hope their Characters gets in.

For Isaac he was kind enough to say that, he didn't heard anything about him a while ago.

As for Geno he said something interesting. TL;DR

Geno is someone practically everyone is predicting and expecting. Meaning that they internally probably do not take that one as seriously as names they themselves have been putting out to employees.
That's not to say that he isn't a name on their list of characters they have been telling people it is though

Basically, from his own supposition, Square doesn't care that much about the """leakers""" saying that Geno is in because he's so expected/talked about that they're not taking "seriously" Any leaks with him. Whenever he's in that list of secret Characters or not. Whenever he's in or not. (which doesn't make sense tbh)

 

[NineS]

... Until the cycle starts again with DLC

At least with DLC, there won't be theories...

I hope. I'm willing to bet that the first character released as DLC, some theories will form around it to try and narrow down how many DLC characters we'll get and which.

That, or, what happened with Mario Odyssey and Kirby: Star Allies will happen with Ultimate, and data miners will find out how many things there are, and what they'll be before Nintendo gets the chance to announce them.

 

[Shroob]

At least with DLC, there won't be theories...

I hope. I'm willing to bet that the first character released as DLC, some theories will form around it to try and narrow down how many DLC characters we'll get and which.

That, or, what happened with Mario Odyssey and Kirby: Star Allies will happen with Ultimate, and data miners will found out how many leaked things there are, and what they'll be before Nintendo gets the chance to announce them.

Nah, knowing Nintendo's track record, they'll forget to scrub out a good chunk of the DLC characters out of the files and we'll know a year in advance who we're getting.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I just want a demo already so we can all have something else to talk about. Watching and analyzing demo footage is fun and all, but it's not quite the same as being able to play it on your own personal Switch. I'd rather be arguing about where places everyone in a 5-character demo tier list then over if someone is an idiot for thinking the box might give us a hint as to the final roster count.

...Man, I remember when I was arguing Mega Man was the best character in the Smash 4 demo. I was such a scrub back then though, I thought Link was better then Pikachu because I didn't know how to get kills with the mouse. Even after I got good at the game I kept insisting that Mega Man was better then people gave him credit for, so it was super satisfying seeing him take a major tourny with his super flashy footstool combo for the first time.

"Theories" were not supposed to be hardline rules for speculation. They were just loose predictors based on existing patterns which weren't fixed, and I wish more people saw them as such. Instead it was an "either/or" situation. Either you believed wholeheartedly in the theory or you denied them outright, no in-between (which is where I was at).

Exactly. I think the box theory is an interesting idea to think about, and I'm certainly willing to humor it and consider the possibility. But so much of the fanbase both inside and outside of Smashboards has turned it into some sort of war that has to be fought. And you can bet that no matter which possibility turns out to be true we'll see people mocking the opposing side, just like when the Music theory was debunked.

 

[Heatswave]

My stance is simple:


I don't even want/care about any surprises at this point, I just wanna be done.

If box is right? Okay.

If box is wrong? Okay.

If Verg is legit? Okay.

If he's not legit? Okay.



Just, end the cycle, let us move on from speculation already.

Totally agree with this.

That is why I want a last Smash direct, rather sooner than later, revealing the last fighters and stages (if there are more than 103), show us Spirit mode and be done with it...
My biggest nightmare would actually be a direct happening with the last fighters and stages revealed, but Nintendo not stating it's the last fighters and stages, and everyone's still hoping and speculating, just to realize at release there is nothing more...

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

Who is chrom's daughter?

 

[Shroob]

I just want a demo already so we can all have something else to talk about. Watching and analyzing demo footage is fun and all, but it's not quite the same as being able to play it on your own personal Switch. I'd rather be arguing about where places everyone in a 5-character demo tier list then over if someone is an idiot for thinking the box might give us a hint as to the final roster count.

...Man, I remember when I was arguing Mega Man was the best character in the Smash 4 demo. I was such a scrub back then though, I thought Link was better then Pikachu because I didn't know how to get kills with the mouse. Even after I got good at the game I kept insisting that Mega Man was better then people gave him credit for, so it was super satisfying seeing him take a major tourny with his super flashy footstool combo for the first time.Exactly. I think the box theory is an interesting idea to think about, and I'm certainly willing to humor it and consider the possibility. But so much of the fanbase both inside and outside of Smashboards has turned it into some sort of war that has to be fought. And you can bet that no matter which possibility turns out to be true we'll see people mocking the opposing side, just like when the Music theory was dubunked.

It definitely didn't help that one of the most vocal, if not THE most vocal music theorist was Smashc---*shot*

 

[Nekoo]

Who is chrom's daughter?

Inigo of course.

 

[NineS]

Who is chrom's daughter?

Marth.
Princess Marth.
Rule 63 Marth.
Lucina, why do you ask?

Spoiler: I lied.

It's Marth.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Nah, knowing Nintendo's track record, they'll forget to scrub out a good chunk of the DLC characters out of the files and we'll know a year in advance who we're getting.

That's not how it works with Smash. It worked with Kirby Star Allies and Mario Tennis Aces because they were finished to begin with and planned to be released over time as FREE DLC.


The only Smash characters that got leaked for DLC were Ryu and Roy. Three other characters were added into the data, but nothing in the data indicated who they were at the time, and every one of them ended up being a complete surprise when they finally got revealed.

 

[NineS]

As for Geno he said something interesting. TL;DR


Basically, from his own supposition, Square doesn't care that much about the """leakers""" saying that Geno is in because he's so expected/talked about that they're not taking "seriously" Any leaks with him. Whenever he's in that list of secret Characters or not. Whenever he's in or not. (which doesn't make sense tbh)

This is interesting, to be honest. What he said about Geno confused me. I can't tell if he's essentially saying "It's not him. If it was, I'd leak him because Square Enix wouldn't really care if it was him.", or "I'm not saying it is him. I mean, it probably isn't... But it's him."
Of course, I'm joking about this. Partially.
It threw me off, especially what he said about this character being a character he felt would be better off for everyone if announced naturally. It almost makes me feel as if it's a character nearly no one has talked about or considered, but is still fairly popular enough and important to Square Enix that they'd go through this much trouble keeping it secret. A character that would likely catch almost everyone off guard and have them in disbelief, in a vein similar to Cloud was last time.

Now, this isn't to say I don't think Geno will be in Smash. I'm saying I don't think the character Vergeben is hinting at is Geno, but I most certainly believe Geno will be in Smash regardless.
I believe the character Vergeben is hinting as is someone other than Geno, likely some other fairly popular Square Enix character (which doesn't really narrow down the list). I believe Geno will be a situation similar to Richter and K. Rool, in the way that they're not characters Vergeben has leaked/hinted at or denied, but end up in the game alongside those he has leaked.

 

[Nekoo]

This is interesting, to be honest. What he said about Geno confused me. I can't tell if he's essentially saying "It's not him. If it was, I'd leak him because Square Enix wouldn't really care if it was him.", or "I'm not saying it is him. I mean, it probably isn't... But it's him."
Of course, I'm joking about this. Partially.
It threw me off, especially what he said about this character being a character he felt would be better off for everyone if announced naturally. It almost makes me feel as if it's a character nearly no one has talked about or considered, but is still fairly popular enough and important to Square Enix that they'd go through this much trouble keeping it secret. A character that would likely catch almost everyone off guard and have them in disbelief.

Now, this isn't to say I don't think Geno will be in Smash. I'm saying I don't think the character Vergeben is hinting at is Geno, but I most certainly believe Geno will be in Smash regardless.
I believe the character Vergeben is hinting as is someone other than Geno, likely some other fairly popular Square Enix character (which doesn't really narrow down the list). I believe Geno will be a situation similar to Richter and K. Rool, in the way that they're not characters Vergeben has leaked/hinted at or denied, but end up in the game alongside those he has leaked.

I'm mostly in your side and think the same.
The fact that he allowed himself to comment on Geno, as speculated as he is, when he is usually so "secret" especially with that Square-Enix Character throw me off.

Like I said a while back, if the list was Geno+ other Characters it would be like Pokemon make a list of random Pokemon+ Pikachu in the middle and asks people
"Guess who is in smash?"

That character supposedly have people's job on the line and Nintendo themselves are protecting it. Leakers themselves doesn't feels safe to EVEN HINT at the list of fake name. Which makes me think it's a big surprise and will blindside most of us.

Geno might be in, but I somehow feel that this Secret Characters Vergeben is talking about it isn't him.

 

[KingBroly]

I feel like Spirits Mode should be this Skills Tree thing, but for unlocking characters.

And that's probably the easiest way for me to describe what I'm thinking, but it's too simplified.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm mostly in your side and think the same.
The fact that he allowed himself to comment on Geno, as speculated as he is, when he is usually so "secret" especially with that Square-Enix Character throw me off.

Like I said a while back, if the list was Geno+ other Characters it would be like Pokemon make a list of random Pokemon+ Pikachu in the middle and asks people
"Guess who is in smash?"

That character supposedly have so people's job on the line and Nintendo themselves are protecting it. Leakers themselves doesn't feels safe to EVEN HINT at the list of fake name. Which makes me think it's a big surprise and will blindside most of us.

Geno might be in, but I somehow feel that this Secret Characters Vergeben is talking about it isn't him.

It's going to be a Moogle and it's final smash is making you help with it's mail

 

[Nekoo]

It's going to be a Moogle and it's final smash is making you help with it's mail

Worth it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Ash-Greninja is a thing in Smash does that mean that

Spoiler

Captain N is now a legitimate contender?

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Geno might be in, but I somehow feel that this Secret Characters Vergeben is talking about it isn't him.

Sans undertale is in boyz

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sans undertale is in boyz

Sans vs Ness would truly be the battle everyone has been waiting for!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If Ash-Greninja is a thing in Smash does that mean that

Spoiler

Captain N is now a legitimate contender?

I mean we have Mother Brain, Mega Man, Pit and Simon

 

[Nekoo]

Sans undertale is in boyz

But Daz not a Square-Enix Character.
Cup noddle crossover x Square x Smash Mii fighter costume

 

[NineS]

I'm mostly in your side and think the same.
The fact that he allowed himself to comment on Geno, as speculated as he is, when he is usually so "secret" especially with that Square-Enix Character throw me off.

Like I said a while back, if the list was Geno+ other Characters it would be like Pokemon make a list of random Pokemon+ Pikachu in the middle and asks people
"Guess who is in smash?"

That character supposedly have too much people's job on the line and Nintendo themselves are protecting it. Leakers themselves doesn't feels safe to EVEN HINT at the list of fake name. Which makes me think it's a big surprise and will blindside most of us.

Geno might be in, but I somehow feel that this Secret Characters Vergeben is talking about it isn't him.

He wasn't even willing to comment on Incineroar until he was absolutely sure.
This makes me think... It's 2B.

Hah, just kidding. Fat chance. Wishful thinking, but interesting he commented about her on anything at all. It's mallow.

It makes me immediately cross Geno off the list of the Square Enix characters he could be leaking. It makes me consider other franchises, such as Kingdom Hearts (Something I've always wondered though. Is Sora a Disney-owned Square Enix character, or a Square Enix-owned Disney character? Just asking.), I want to say Final Fantasy but with Final Fantasy being labeled as "Final Fantasy 7" in Smash instead of just "Final Fantasy", it makes me believe if we were to get another it'd have to be from FF7 in some way. I've also considered Dragon Quest, since it isn't talked about too much either. I've even considered some of Square Enix's presently newer/lesser known but still smashing hit popular series and franchises, like Chocobo, Chrono, NieR, Bubble Bobble, and SaGa.

The latter are definitely less likely than the former, though, as much as I only partially hate to admit.

I might just be getting optimistic, and he may very well be leaking Geno. Which isn't a bad outcome, honestly. We couldn't ask for more. But I feel as if the outcome of Vergeben's Enix character not being Geno, but still getting in the game alongside Geno is possible.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Now we need a list of every video game IP SE owns. Even stuff like Gex

 

[Nekoo]

He wasn't even willing to comment on Incineroar until he was absolutely sure.
This makes me think... It's 2B.

Hah, just kidding. Fat chance. Wishful thinking, but interesting he commented about her on anything at all. It's mallow.

It makes me immediately cross Geno off the list of the Square Enix characters he could be leaking. It makes me consider other franchises, such as Kingdom Hearts (Something I've always wondered though. Is Sora a Disney-owned Square Enix character, or a Square Enix-owned Disney character? Just asking.), I want to say Final Fantasy but with Final Fantasy being labeled as "Final Fantasy 7" in Smash instead of just "Final Fantasy", it makes me believe if we were to get another it'd have to be from FF7 in some way. I've also considered Dragon Quest, since it isn't talked about too much either. I've even considered some of Square Enix's presently newer/lesser known bit still smashing hit series and franchises, like Chocobo, Chrono, NieR, Bubble Bobble, and SaGa.

The latter are definitely less likely than the former, though, as much as I only partially hate to admit.

Long story short.
Sora is a Disney Characters legally. But Tetsuya Nomura/Square-Enix are the one managing him as a character and all that stuff. So if Sora gets in, Disney give the greenlight but Square-Enix do all of the work.

Honestly I feel it VERY GOOD for a Dragon Quest Characters. Heck, I even have hope for Crono or Neku now.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

While that is true it has been really lame for the past 2 months, and that is in a very short hype cicle. Plus we never got a Robin reveal this time that trow everything upside down, even tho for a short bit.

I would say that was King K Rool. He wasn't on Vergerber's list and he was really exciting to see.

We could still get a surprise reveal not on Vergeben's list, but it's less likely at this point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait I just realized the SE character is Kamen Rider Brave as his LV50 and LV100 are references to FFIV's Ceci Harvey

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't think what Verg said in relation to Geno means anything, because I don't actually think he knows for sure who the SE character is, the only hint he has at it comes from someone who's not one of his regular sources and approached Verg himself, so who knows the credibility of that person. To me it just sounds like Verg is giving his own take on the situation, he's saying things like 'probably' and 'that's not to say', like he doesn't actually know the ins and outs of the situation, just that something like it is happening, so he's theorizing how it's probably going down, which isn't based on his actual insider information.