Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Amiibo Doctor]

I can't shake the feeling that Nintendo is going to put out a Direct soon, but they're just going to start streaming and not tell anybody. That would be exactly the wrong thing for Sakurai to do, which makes me think he's going to do it.

 

[Wyoming]

That and also the character videos were all posted on the date of the E3 reveal for pretty much every veteran and newcomer. They honestly should have done an indeph video about how each character is different like Street Fighter V did for it's characters. That way we can get some hype instead of "Oh look a video that was up 4 months ago was posted today on the blog, how exciting"

I wish they had kept the character trailers hidden until their blog post. People would have significantly more to talk about then.

 

[Flyboy]

I was living in Italy during high school when the Dojo was a thing, so my friends and I would get to school and sneak into a computer lab to see the day's update. When he told me Sonic was confirmed I called him a liar and then we all rejoiced when seeing the trailer with our own eyes.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't shake the feeling that Nintendo is going to put out a Direct soon, but they're just going to start streaming and not tell anybody. That would be exactly the wrong thing for Sakurai to do, which makes me think he's going to do it.

Game specific Directs? Most likely. General Nintendo Directs? Especially when you have The Game Awards in December where rumors are flying about of the reveal of Smash Ultimate DLC and Metroid Prime 4? Highly doubt it. I was of the believer that we'd have the January Direct to be moved to this December due to the situation of how the last Direct went, but they seem to wanna go all in on The Game Awards, and it makes sense.

 

[Noipoi]

Hey all, I've been gone from the thread a few days enjoying my reading week.

Any interesting stuff? Fake leaks or the like? I dropped in every once in a while but didn't seem like much.

As my good friend Groudon put's it.

Spoiler

 

[Dcas]

Well unless annoucements can happen in the evening

The 10 after the playlist gets updated hypothesis is toast

Pretty much deconfirmed at this point, at least the "10 days" thing. Welp pack it up, no october news.

 

[Dee Dude]

If Skull Kid isn’t playable, which fate would you rather have?

Assist Trophy return or Boss?

 

[Noipoi]

I was living in Italy during high school when the Dojo was a thing, so my friends and I would get to school and sneak into a computer lab to see the day's update. When he told me Sonic was confirmed I called him a liar and then we all rejoiced when seeing the trailer with our own eyes.

Spoiler

I've been meaning to ask, is that Kaede Akamatsu in your avatar?

 

[UberMadman]

Unrelated to anything being talked about here at the moment, I thought this video was well-made and presented, and I thought some people might like it:

https://youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=JRo_HXJX4O0

I’m having trouble getting the media option to work on my phone. Basically, it’s a video of Sonic’s potential playstyle in Ultimate compared to Smash 4.

 

[Flyboy]

Spoiler

I've been meaning to ask, is that Kaede Akamatsu in your avatar?

Spoiler

It sure is! Her Halloween dress from one of the key chains in honor of October. She's an incredibly important character to me.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Pretty much deconfirmed at this point, at least the "10 days" thing. Welp pack it up, no october news.

It doesn’t mean we won’t get something in October the playlist update just means we are close

What happen is both times (August and September directs) it was 10 days after it happened that’s when they get revealed

Obviously that pattern is not happening since it’s gonna be 10 days so a little longer this time

 

[Noipoi]

Spoiler

It sure is! Her Halloween dress from one of the key chains in honor of October. She's an incredibly important character to me.

Spoiler

Aw hell yeah! I love Danganronpa V3! If you don't mind me asking, what makes her so important to you?

 

[Luigi The President]

Man, the "10 days" thing being broken is so weird to me.

One of the more reliable patterns so far from what I understand.

What's the switch-up now for?

 

[Noipoi]

Man, the "10 days" thing being broken is so weird to me.

One of the more reliable patterns so far from what I understand.

What's the switch-up now for?

Sakurai's keeping us on our toes.

 

[Applebutter61]

Why can't they just put wavedashing back in at this point...? Lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why can't they just put wavedashing back in at this point...? Lol

They did. It's just nerfed.

 

[Luigifan18]

Why can't they just put wavedashing back in at this point...? Lol

Because it's too hard for the causal audience it raises the skill floor unacceptably high for Sakurai's liking. Remember, this is the guy behind Kirbyism. He wouldn't be caught dead knowingly making a game that's too frustratingly difficult for a non-hardcore audience to enjoy.

 

[RandomAce]

Roy gets put too low on these lists given how much 4's normals were changed up, but being absent's a bit of a stretch.

Forgot about my boy.

I’ve had a lot of experiences with Roy, so I’d place him with Falco and Wolf.

A good analysis. Personally, I'd remove Luigi and Isabelle altogether; I wouldn't even consider them semi-clones at all. Then I'd move Lucas down with Falco and Wolf and call it a day.

The reason I have Luigi and Isabelle on this list is because they still have some things that were based on another character (heck, even Isabelle was originally considered an echo when Sakurai decided to make her unique instead). Isabelle’s Up special isn’t drastically different from Villager’s. So far, both have the same function (large recovers that go in the desired direction, if one gets hit two times, they can lose their recovery early).

I was torn whether or not to include Lucas with Falco and Wolf. But I decided to put him above Falco and Wolf because Lucas’s specials seems to be more distinct from theirs, and Lucas’s normals are almost completely different than Ness say for their Forward Smash. Falco shares some moves with Fox like Down Smash, Down Air, some of their grabs, and more similar special moves. Wolf is a bit above Falco, with even more moves being new to him, along with his specials moves being more distinct from Fox’s. Though his Neutral Air is the same as Fox’s now, and his Up Special is very similar to Fox’s and Falco’s.

Thinking about it, I think Lucas, Wolf, Falco, and Roy are probably in the same “tier” of unqiueness. I’m a bit sad that they didn’t keep Wolf’s old Neutral Air, I hope that they reverted back to it with more polish.

 

[Applebutter61]

They did. It's just nerfed.

I've heard a lot of back and forth of "Oh, wavedashing is in the game!" "Uh, no it's not".

Here is what I understand. Firstly, there is an certain number of frames you have to be in the air for before you can air dodge; but, by all means, link some footage of wavedashing in SSBU.

Because it's too hard for the causal audience it raises the skill floor unacceptably high for Sakurai's liking. Remember, this is the guy behind Kirbyism. He wouldn't be caught dead knowingly making a game that's too frustratingly difficult for a non-hardcore audience to enjoy.

Haha, "kirbyism", I get it. RelaxAlax, right? Anyway, the casual audience doesn't even CARE about advanced techniques, so how is adding to them game even harmful? Answer; it's not.

 

[papagenos]

Man, the "10 days" thing being broken is so weird to me.

One of the more reliable patterns so far from what I understand.

What's the switch-up now for?

Even if it doesnt hit exactly 10 days, say we get an announcement tomorrow for something thursday it would still hold ground that "a little more than a week in advance they update the fighter video page before adding a character".

Maybe they updated just to update something minor but i think even passing the usual "10 day" mark doesnt disqualify the importance of them updating the fighter video page and what that probably means will happen soon. the important thing was the page was updated, not the perfect 10days later pattern we had going, it still points to something happening soon.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's how I feel the rest of the year is gonna shape up for Nintendo, including the schedule for Smash Ultimate:

October
Pretty much getting things geared up for the absolute monster that is next month. It kinda shows with the game releases that it isn't a "big hitter month" as before, so it just feels right at home that we're gonna have a final Smash Direct this month; given how they can even squeeze a Direct with the amount of games and promotion, not to mention gearing up for The Game Awards, there is absolutely no way we're getting another Direct in November. Since we've had the 50-Fact Extravaganza in the later half of October, that would be probably the latest they can go about it.

November
Pokemon Let's Go! Pikachu/Eevee, Civ VI, Diablo III, Warframe - this is pretty much the Nintendo Switch getting back on track with some heavy-duty releases. The only person you should really keep your eyes on this month would be Spawn Wave, mainly due to the fact of his sources saying there might be a Smash DLC reveal for next month @ The Game Awards. Remember, this month is also peak time for leaks, but given how we're gonna know practically everything about this game this month, this might not be the case.

December
The big month everyone only cares about one game for - Smash Ultimate releases. The Game Awards are also happening just a day before the game launches, so we might see some stuff regarding Smash, considering Nintendo in recent years has been going hard at this event. And it makes sense - the reveal of Bayonetta 3, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - this is like a little "Mini Christmas E3" than anything. The only characters I have in mind at this point are Rex & Pyra and Banjo-Kazooie. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[lightdrago]

Man, we’re back to when the direct was delayed. We’re expecting something, we just don’t know when or what.

Sakurai pls

 

[PeridotGX]

I've heard a lot of back and forth of "Oh, wavedashing is in the game!" "Uh, no it's not".

Here is what I understand. Firstly, there is an certain number of frames you have to be in the air for before you can air dodge; but, by all means, link some footage of wavedashing in SSBU.

Haha, "kirbyism", I get it. RelaxAlax, right? Anyway, the casual audience doesn't even CARE about advanced techniques, so how is adding to them game even harmful? Answer; it's not.

He didn't mean it like that. What if someone who started with Brawl/4/Ultimate wants to start playing competitively? To bad for them, they have to learn all these complicated techniques to stand a shot.

 

[PsySmasher]

I think the fact that the "new" being removed from the website was the biggest indicator that some kind of Smash info would be coming relatively soon. Not exactly 10 days, but sometime within this week or next week.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This may have been discussed already, but I haven't seen anyone talk about this, so I thought I would ask. Do you guys think the Steven Battle theme could hurt Incenaroar's chances? I think it could go one of three ways:
A. The music theory doesn't mean anything and Sakurai will add whatever music he wants.
B. It could hurt his chances (though I think this is the least likely)
c. It has no effect on him since it's Generation 3 music and Incenaroar would probably get a song from Generation 7 to tie with his reveal.

I think A and C are the most likely and equally likely.

The Music Theory is definitely false. That being said, there are tracks from some franchises that are saved to coincide with particular newcomers as we've seen with Isabelle and K. Rool. The only thing I'm confident on is that no franchise will have two tracks listed on the website anytime soon.

 

[Luigifan18]

He didn't mean it like that. What if someone who started with Brawl/4/Ultimate wants to start playing competitively? To bad for them, they have to learn all these complicated techniques to stand a shot.

Yeah, pretty much this. Plus online is a thing now. I can already hear the accusations of cheating and hax...

 

[Deleted member]

Man, the "10 days" thing being broken is so weird to me.

One of the more reliable patterns so far from what I understand.

What's the switch-up now for?

It falls in line with Sakurai's comments of slowing down. Plus, there is every chance the 10 day thing was simply coincidence, but we can't know for sure, unfortunately.

 

[Applebutter61]

He didn't mean it like that. What if someone who started with Brawl/4/Ultimate wants to start playing competitively? To bad for them, they have to learn all these complicated techniques to stand a shot.

Not really. First of all, being good at the game is not directly correlated to learning something like wavedashing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXvKpe5MP0s Secondly, wavedashing is not hard; it's just something that takes some practice, and, if you're not even willing to put in that practice, then you should find something else that you actually care enough about to put time and practice into.

Edit; In case you don't feel like watching that video, I'll give you the run-down. Being good at super smash bros is about learning and adapting.

 

[RandomAce]

Man, the "10 days" thing being broken is so weird to me.

One of the more reliable patterns so far from what I understand.

What's the switch-up now for?

Idk, maybe they delayed it? Seem unlikely though.

Call me crazy and with all of those “this never happened before” but I think it’s possible that we may get one on Saturday. Something one the weekends so most people can watch it since it’s Smash specific (even in different time zone where some people are in Friday and some are in Saturday). I can’t really see this coming up on a weekday, more so Monday-Wednesday. So I’m leaning more towards it either being possibly on a Friday or Saturday. But either way, I hope we get one soon.

They've stated that Simon also kinda echoes Richter, since Simon's moveset also has some attacks derived from Richter himself. They've even said "it's hard to tell who's echoing who". I do have a feeling though that Richter's final smash will be Hydro Storm. If Chrom got a stylized Critical Hit and Dark Pit having the staff, I assume, I expect no less for Richter to have Hydro Storm, instead of Grand Cross.

Well, Richter is still an echo of Simon, and his differences are being compared to Simon’s moveset. Even if some moves are derived from Richter, they’re movesets are still similar.

Actually, Richter uses Grand Cross as well, but I wouldn’t put it past them to give Richter something somewhat different. I did this based on more gameplay differences, and since you don’t really get their FS all the time, I didn’t really count it.

 

[T-Hell]

So.. do you think we'll get the news announcement tomorrow?

I love being ignored.

 

[KMDP]

Did Digimon ever use that Tamagotchi design though?

Pretty sure they haven't.

Digimon may have started as a male-oriented Tamagotchi spin-off, but it is not Tamagotchi, and would more likely either use this as it's logo or the original V1 Digivice (here).

 

[Deleted member]

Idk, maybe they delayed it? Seem unlikely though.

Call me crazy and with all of those “this never happened before” but I think it’s possible that we may get one on Saturday. Something one the weekends so most people can watch it since it’s Smash specific (even in different time zone where some people are in Friday and some are in Saturday). I can’t really see this coming up on a weekday, more so Monday-Wednesday. So I’m leaning more towards it either being possibly on a Friday or Saturday. But either way, I hope we get one soon..

Nintendo doesn't really care if their Directs are on weekdays, though. They usually are, as odd a decision as that is.

Also, the last Smash Direct was on 8.8, which was a Wednesday. Nintendo pretty much puts these things on whatever days they want.

 

[AugustusB]

Hmmm it seems like Phil Spencer is visiting Japan for a week...
https://mobile.twitter.com/XboxP3/status/1049211399195451392

He states he is visiting various publishers while there.

How very interesting! May we see him in an upcoming video? Wouldn't that be fun!

 

[Meritocracy]

Say wut now 'bout a direct?

 

[Buzzwole]

If Skull Kid isn’t playable, which fate would you rather have?

Assist Trophy return or Boss?

Neither so he's available as a DLC possibility.

 

[Applebutter61]

I love being ignored.

That's the internet for you. I wish I had more info on new directs, believe me.

 

[DJ3DS]

I've heard a lot of back and forth of "Oh, wavedashing is in the game!" "Uh, no it's not".

Here is what I understand. Firstly, there is an certain number of frames you have to be in the air for before you can air dodge; but, by all means, link some footage of wavedashing in SSBU.

Haha, "kirbyism", I get it. RelaxAlax, right? Anyway, the casual audience doesn't even CARE about advanced techniques, so how is adding to them game even harmful? Answer; it's not.

This entire debate appears to be about the trade-off between options and execution barriers.

To the group who want techniques like wavedashing, it's all about having the additional options that wavedashing gives. That's not a harmful thing to the game. More options leads to more choices and more interesting gameplay. It raises the skill ceiling.

The problem is that these options, in Melee, come at the expense of additional execution barriers that also raise the skill floor. It becomes more difficult for a casual player to play the game at any level. Melee, to a casual player who doesn't want to grind out L-cancelling, wavedashing, etc does not actually feel more fluid to play. It feels like you're controlling a sack of bricks.

I think Ultimate has made a good compromise between the two. Reduced landing lag gives the utility of L-cancelling without the arbitrary execution barrier, and the new dash gives significantly better movement options than 4 without the added execution barrier wavedashing brings.

 

[Iridium]

I'm suffering an eternal nightmare looking at DK's cargo b-throw. Also eternally triggered for obvious reasons.

 

[Buzzwole]

I'm suffering an eternal nightmare looking at DK's b-throw. Also eternally triggered for obvious reasons.

I love how there are tons of stages to play on in this demo and everyone still picks Town & City and Battlefield.

 

[monadoboy]

Why can't they just put wavedashing back in at this point...? Lol

I really hope they don't bring it back. The way characters move is important to their characterization, and an accidental "mechanic" that looks clunky takes away from that imo