Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Why would Geno need a new one when the normal one is fine for him?

Why would palutena need an anime style one when a normal one was fine for her?

 

[Nekoo]

Perhaps Sakurai wants to make his special?
SMRPG was very clay like for all the characters of the game.
I don't think it would be to farfetched to get a trailer that caters to a characters original appearance.

Do the artstyle change mean removing his ears?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Why would palutena need an anime style when a normal one was fine for her?

That was Smash 4, when they sourced the animations to several studios. There seems to be only one studio in charge of it, this time...

 

[osby]

Why would palutena need an anime style one when a normal one was fine for her?

Because SHAFT already did animations for Kid Icarus Uprising and it would be easy to work with them again.

(Did I recall the studio right?)

 

[Deleted member]

That was Smash 4, when they sourced the animations to several studios. There seems to be only one studio in charge of it, this time...

To be fair, just because a single studio is handling it doesn't mean they are incapable of using a different art style.

That said, it's probably fake, but eh, we're probably gonna know everything that's in base game somewhere in between now and the next 5 weeks anyway. We'll have our answers soon enough.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Because SHAFT already did animations for Kid Icarus Uprising and it would be easy to work with them again.

(Did I recall the studio right?)

Yes you did get the studio name correct

Why would palutena need an anime style one when a normal one was fine for her?

Because Sakurai loves Kid Icarus...and Pit/Palutena are apart of his Sakurai Clan/Family...duh

 

[dezeray112]

Because SHAFT already did animations for Kid Icarus Uprising and it would be easy to work with them again.

(Did I recall the studio right?)

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Chrono.]

Waiting for the Lloyd reveal that uses studio ufotable for the trailer.

 

[AugustusB]

Waiting for the Lloyd reveal that uses studio ufotable for the trailer.

That would be amazing to see.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Waiting for the Goemon trailer with lucas and wario.

 

[Idon]

its not about the model its about what turnabout represents. PW becomes an unstoppable cross-examiner in his own game and in MVC3 he goes from the worst character to the second best character. smash players would not be ok with that. as we have also seen with cloud giving as character movement increases or enhanced specials also isnt well received.

robins tomes are just a resource. in smash 4 it was hard to keep track of but the tomes werent complicated.
pikmin arent complicated either its a set pattern and they all have passive immunities and have one attack they are good at.

turnabout mode alone has a stun, 4 or 5 variations of projectiles, massive hitboxes, new combo openings, and new normals. the model may not chnage but the entire character is different.

Well for one you're speaking for the entirety of a community on what they would consider fun and unfun for a theoretical character. And for two, you're trying to tie down theoretical balance for the sake of discounting a character when we don't know how mechanics would translate to an entirely different genre of fighter or if said mechanics would even get used to begin with. On top of that, balance has NEVER stopped Smash from adding a character. The primary focus is introducing a fun character first than one that appeals to a competitive niche in the community.
Plus, transformation characters don't determine whether a character is overpowered or terrible or more importantly, even liked. In the same game, we have PW at the bottom of the tier list and absolutely adored while Dark Phoenix is universally agreed to be a dumb broken overpowered mess of a character.

The only thing complex about PW's item mechanics is that they were reliant on RNG. Other than that, anyone could figure out in their mind "3 good evidence in evidence mode -> hit-confirm objection in trial mode -> turnabout mode". The hardest part would probably just be associated what item gave out which projectile. Keep in mind, all these mechanics would be simplified in an easy game like Smash as well. Compare that to pikmin who go out in a cycle, affect your recovery strength, have 5 different percentage damage, knockback, and grab ranges, and looking at a simplified PW in Smash isn't too unrealistic.

And besides, this is all a moot point if they just straight up DIDN'T use the MvC3 mechanics. After all, Megaman doesn't exactly play at all like his MvC2 incarnation.
And besides besides, the point wasn't that the MvC3 mechanics would transfer well into Smash, it was that, yes, non-combatant fighters do work in fighting games, and PW is an example of one of many ways you could theoretically make a non-combatant both true to canon and flashy.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ken...Incineroar...Geno...real or fake...we need some more Shadow

 

[Deleted member]

Ken...Incineroar...Geno...real or fake...we need some more Shadow

Anyone from Sonic would be cool IMO. I'm honestly surprised that we haven't gotten another Sonic character yet; it always seemed like such an obvious thing to me.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ken...Incineroar...Geno...real or fake...we need some more Rhythm Heaven representation

There, fixed it.

 

[_Fresh_]

I'm gonna say the Geno leak looks believable. If someone took a picture of a headshot of Ridley during the cinamatic portion of his reveal people would've said fake. Same for K.rool. Same for Isabelle. Art styles were completely different between Isabelle and Belmont already. It wouldn't surprise me at all for them to do it again.

 

[Fenriraga]

That Geno leak is probably fake, but I actually really dig how it looks. It's clearly not the traditional CG Smash has used and is animated by some outside studio, I like the cell shaded approach, and the idea of Geno's doll sitting in the playroom from Smash 64 is SUCH a great idea for his reveal.

But yeah, probably fake. Sad.

 

[RandomAce]

View attachment 168449


A reminder to not always rush to believing something just because it's zoomed in and looks like a cinematic.

Yes, K. Rool was later revealed, but this was obviously not featured in his trailer at all.

Wasn’t that already debunked shortly after?

Someone soon realized that the K. Rool here came from an artwork that featured K. Rool in this same pose and added some effects to make it “look” CG.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

EVERY aspect that made him interesting in mvc 3 wont be in smash. (no maya, no evidence, no turnabout) he wont have any of those things. as a smash character he wont be that interesting due to how the game works. mvc is a much more iopen and creative game than smash from character moveset perspective. PW wouldnt be as interesting or fun as a dante or another capcom character.

Y'know dual fighters aren't unheard of in Smash? Maya could make it in as well in so many ways, ranging from select moves, to Assist trophies, to final smashes.
Also, not to knock the Vs. Series, I love them, but let's be honest, not even counting how currently, MvC:I stripped away a lot of creativity, I can assure you, Smash has the higher consistency of creativity and faithfulness in movesets.

You really think Sakurai wouldn't be capable of crafting a proper moveset for Phoenix Wright?

Well then, I've got a bridge to the turnabout to sell ya.

 

[NextChannelGames]

alright we got a new leak from the land of 4chan:

Spoiler: Take it with a grain of salt (how many times has that been said :troll:)

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434225095#q434225095

It's Geno, another anonymous user in the replies claims it's from his reveal.

May be fake, but since it's yet another zoomed in pic it's hard to tell, so I guess we may as well assume fake until proven otherwise, though I find it interesting. Someone shared this on the Geno thread.

The background seems to be an updated version of the playroom in the Smash 64 intro.

That looks interesting... I’ll say this looks a bit like a anime mix clay that resembles SMRPG. But I do have a question... Did Geno really had ears?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm gonna say the Geno leak looks believable. If someone took a picture of a headshot of Ridley during the cinamatic portion of his reveal people would've said fake. Same for K.rool. Same for Isabelle. Art styles were completely different between Isabelle and Belmont already. It wouldn't surprise me at all for them to do it again.

The main problem I have with the Geno leak (as well as any trailer footage leak), Is that assuming it's from his trailer, shouldn't they be showing his game play footage that shows up in the trailer? It can be really easy to make a CGI trailer Mock-up. It's not as easy to make some mock up game play footage. I think that really hurts this leak...

 

[NapoleonDos]

Crash Bandicoot would like to speak with you in his office.

This idea needs to be in Family Guy. Crash bandicoot as a real person in awkward business attire, pressing the button to speak to his Secretary, Janice, asking to speak to Mr. Smithman. Smithman comes in and Crash proceeds to talk about being unhappy with the state of Smithman and his job performance. Smithman gets aggressive and leaves. So crash loses his cool and spins once, destroying the whole desk.

 

[SonicMario]

Anyone from Sonic would be cool IMO. I'm honestly surprised that we haven't gotten another Sonic character yet; it always seemed like such an obvious thing to me.

Never felt it was obvious myself. I do think at the very least 3rd party franchises getting more then one rep was never really on Sakurai's mind for either Brawl or Smash 4. I still voted for Tails and no one else in the ballot knowing that because he's the only character I could ever want after Sonic's already here.

After Richter (and most likely Ken) though all bets are off even if they ARE just echoes so far. I imagine you still had to negoigate some degree of rights for the character. So echo fighter or not, 3rd party franchises can get more then one character now. The only limit now is people may think they can only be echoes which bodes well for characters like Shadow or Big Boss that are just about perfect model swaps for characters that could have their own personality and feel in their moveset while still generally the same playstyle as the character they're echoing. But it's not entirely out of the question that characters like Tails or Chun-Li have a chance at least by the time DLC begins.

 

[Deleted member]

The main problem I have with the Geno leak (as well as any trailer footage leak), Is that assuming it's from his trailer, shouldn't they be showing his game play footage that shows up in the trailer? It can be really easy to make a CGI trailer Mock-up. It's not as easy to make some mock up game play footage. I think that really hurts this leak...

Honestly, we're reaching a point with fan created content that even convincing footage could be faked at this point. I'm kind of at a place where I doubt all leaks, even ones that seem credible.

So, what're people thinking our deadline is for an announcement this upcoming week? I feel like Tuesday Morning is the cut-off if anything is happening next week.

 

[Nap_]

Ken leak is better. Pretty easy make a fake like that.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Actually, come to think of it, the reason why it look cell-shaded is because of the star glowing near him.

The Geno community looks at the image closely and saw that they could not see the ears because the image is low-quality.

Of course, take it with a grain of salt because it is 4chan and 4chan is known for their good leaks.

 

[papagenos]

the geno leak I want to be real... love the idea of him coming to life in the smash 64 play room, legit thats the perfect reveal for him.

dont know if its real or not, no ears hurts it, but maybe the doll is suppose to have less features before being animated or maybe its really minimalist looking to match smash 64's style a bit?

looking like its own graphical style somewhat helps it cause often trailers have done that BUT at the same time it somewhat hurts it as thats easier to fake than copying smash ultimates style perfectly.

i really do hope geno is in and somehow part of "spirits" mode if that is some kind of one-player mode maybe geno as a "spirit" character could be a big part of that plot, it would be great to see him "called upon again" to help mario save the world or something. very fitting if sakurai goes that route imo,.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Let's leak Geno by taking making sure our picture of him has his face obscured and in which the lighting is messing with the coloration.

Suuuuuure.

 

[nintenplayer]

Because SHAFT already did animations for Kid Icarus Uprising and it would be easy to work with them again.

(Did I recall the studio right?)

You got it right. I mean, your profile pic is already doing "the pose", so

 

[amazonevan19]

The Geno leak looks real at first glance but it sucks how we couldn't get more of the body and background to really evaluate it better. The Ken leak is so convincing because it's on a stage in Ultimate with three other characters interacting.

Actually now that I type that, the interesting thing about the Ken leak is that they are all taunting and they're not fighting/interacting DIRECTLY. Not that I disbelieve the Ken leak but I do find it interesting that we don't see Ken doing a move or getting hit by an attack, which would probably be nigh 100% confirmation. It'd be relatively easy for a good fake leak maker to create a model and paste it in without it looking fake, and with no burden of having the character interact with others...there ya go.

The other thing is, I wish the Ken icon was actually visible and not faded out. That'd really help determine authenticity better and we could reverse search it to see if it was just a copy pasted icon from another game. Zoom in and this is all you get:

It looks abnormally faded out to me...idk. Like most of the time when that happened in Smash 4, the character icon was still...DISTINGUISHABLE. But that? You can BARELY tell that looks like Ken's face. But what do I know, maybe they made that effect more pronounced in this game.

Furthermore when you compare the square surrounding the Ken icon with the others, it looks a little like it could be touched up to me. In fact, to the left of what I think is Ken's hair, there doesn't appear to be a corner at ALL.

Also, has anyone gone and analyzed all the programming language on the bottom right hand side and the blue bar underneath? Those could be added to make it seem like it's an authentic game build/debug mode or something.

Don't mind me, just trying to critically evaluate something the community has believed with little question until now, because maybe there's something more to it. I have little reason to believe the Ken leak is fake, and all prior efforts to debunk it have seemingly only make it stronger. But I also haven't seen anyone bring up these questions that I have just now.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I want to point this out this to everybody

4chan is where the ken leak and the ESRB came from

So this could be another real one the only problem so far is lack of ears to save it is if the shadow from the angle is hiding them very well

 

[beans]

View attachment 168453

Actually, come to think of it, the reason why it look cell-shaded is because of the star glowing near him.

The Geno community looks at the image closely and saw that they could not see the ears because the image is low-quality.

Of course, take it with a grain of salt because it is 4chan and 4chan is known for their good leaks.

Looking better at it, on the back of his head, there is a nudge on the back that kinda looks like and ear.
Geno confirmed cause ear theory

 

[Nekoo]

The idea that Geno appears and revive in the Smash 64's room seems too much a fan-wish fulfillement for me to be seen as true, sorry-

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

The Geno leak looks real at first glance but it sucks how we couldn't get more of the body and background to really evaluate it better. The Ken leak is so convincing because it's on a stage in Ultimate with three other characters interacting.

Actually now that I type that, the interesting thing about the Ken leak is that they are all taunting and they're not fighting/interacting DIRECTLY. Not that I disbelieve the Ken leak but I do find it interesting that we don't see Ken doing a move or getting hit by an attack, which would probably be nigh 100% confirmation. It'd be relatively easy for a good fake leak maker to create a model and paste it in without it looking fake, and with no burden of having the character interact with others...there ya go.

The other thing is, I wish the Ken icon was actually visible and not faded out. That'd really help determine authenticity better and we could reverse search it to see if it was just a copy pasted icon from another game. Zoom in and this is all you get:

It looks abnormally faded out to me...idk. Like most of the time when that happened in Smash 4, the character icon was still...DISTINGUISHABLE. But that? You can BARELY tell that looks like Ken's face. But what do I know, maybe they made that effect more pronounced in this game.

Furthermore when you compare the square surrounding the Ken icon with the others, it looks a little like it could be touched up to me. In fact, to the left of what I think is Ken's hair, there doesn't appear to be a corner at ALL.

Also, has anyone gone and analyzed all the programming language on the bottom right hand side and the blue bar underneath? Those could be added to make it seem like it's an authentic game build/debug mode or something.

Don't mind me, just trying to critically evaluate something the community has believed with little question until now, because maybe there's something more to it. I have little reason to believe the Ken leak is fake, and all prior efforts to debunk it have seemingly only make it stronger. But I also haven't seen anyone bring up these questions that I have just now.

The Ken leak is in a way different league than the Geno leak is...
Why compare them?

 

[Deleted member]

I was skeptical when others said "you only believe this because it has something you want in it", like, nah, this thread ain't that biased. Butt man, this just proves ya'll are gonna believe anything with Geno in it, are you not?

 

[osby]

You got it right. I mean, your profile pic is already doing "the pose", so

You can tell it's them because gorgeous animation+completely gratitous close-ups to Palutena but sometimes I get the spelling wrong.

I actually like "the pose"

 

[amazonevan19]

The Ken leak is in a way different league than the Geno leak is...
Why compare them?

Not really comparing them. It's actually more of a contrast - with the Geno leak you have no other characters, no full model of even Geno himself, and only a vague background that looks like the background of the smash 64 room, which would mean this isn't coming from the game itself but from a trailer or something.

That inspired me to dig a little bit deeper into the Ken leak again and I just wanted to post a couple things I noticed about it that I and seemingly others hadn't seen before.

Edit: the lack of ears kills the Geno leak to me imo - no amount of shadow can change that fact. If you look where the ear should be, even with a shadow obfuscating it, there should be at least some kind of visible raised surface/bump where the ear would be - but I don't see any. 80% sure Geno leak is fake, even though we'd like it to be true and it looks good when you glance at it.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

I was skeptical when others said "you only believe this because it has something you want in it", like, nah, this thread ain't that biased. Butt man, this just proves ya'll are gonna believe anything with Geno in it, are you not?

This thread since the leak has been "eh" "maybe" and "im neutral" what in the world are you talking about.

 

[NextChannelGames]

I actually want the Smash 64 room come back as a stage now. How awesome that would be!

 

[Deleted member]

This thread since the leak has been "eh" "maybe" and "im neutral" what in the world are you talking about.

Yeah man, NO ONE here is saying it looks believable nor is anyone giving all of its inconsistencies the benefit of the doubt.
A leak shouldn't even go into "neutral" unless it actually has something going for it, which this doesn't as all you guys have done is point out how "well, this could happen" in regards to the artstyle.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This thread since the leak has been "eh" "maybe" and "im neutral" what in the world are you talking about.

Last I checked, lot's of people still seem to believe it...
I kid you not, this is almost as bad as the Skull Kid chairs and the seemingly Golden Sun-esque image that Sakurai posted....
Stuff like this never would have gotten traction if they weren't highly requested characters...