Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

a lot of old school "fans" deny the value of newer games to Nintendo insisting the newer series arent as valuable or worth it. ARMs is solid. its not gonna be a world beater like splatoon but even that had a LOT of hate at launch.
i really dont want to dignify these goku fans with arguments it always feelis like they are trolling. there are a lot of fan amde frules that were never binding on who gets in Sakurai from his own mouth has said standards that goku simply cannot meet.

go play fighterz if you like goku there's like 6 of him.

Almost, it isn't just Nintendo fans but gamers as a whole, especially if it's something kids like

 

[Idon]

go play fighterz if you like goku there's like 6 of him.

The best part is that all of them are unique and perfectly accurate. Seriously, I can't decide which one I like most.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I just have a hard time believing that Porky would be anything but a boss.

He probably won't be playable, and I'd appreciate him reappearing as a boss, but at the same time I'd also like to see a different Mother boss as the series has so much potential on that front. Mr. Belch, Natural Killer Cyborg or the Barrier Trio would be glorious.

 

[TheSmashBros]

That still sold better than a LOT of other Nintendo IPs like Wonderful 101
I don't get why Nintendo's objectively awful online is relevant here but ok

It doesn't matter how the game sold its the fanboys that bought the game because there was nothing else to play. Here is the truth what happens when you get too obsessed with Nintendo. You enjoy a series and start playing. You play an unhealthy amount of time and become obsessed with a certain series. Then the last step is you develop social anxiety and would never talk down to the company. Its a thing and there is proof to back it up.

 

[Alaskalana]

Gosh, I'd love it if the "Spirits" focused direct did in fact happen. Like, it just makes sense to do it around this time, you know? Ugh, me and my wishful thinking. Lol

 

[osby]

It doesn't matter how the game sold its the fanboys that bought the game because there was nothing else to play. Here is the truth what happens when you get to obsessed with Nintendo. You enjoy a series and start playing. You play an unhealthy amount of time and become obsessed with a certain series. Then the last step is you develop social anxiety and would never talk down to the company. Its a thing and there is proof to back it up.

Should we pretend you said something that makes sense?

 

[Noipoi]

It doesn't matter how the game sold its the fanboys that bought the game because there was nothing else to play. Here is the truth what happens when you get too obsessed with Nintendo. You enjoy a series and start playing. You play an unhealthy amount of time and become obsessed with a certain series. Then the last step is you develop social anxiety and would never talk down to the company. Its a thing and there is proof to back it up.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe this poster is baiting.

it would be most wise to not fall for it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It doesn't matter how the game sold its the fanboys that bought the game because there was nothing else to play. Here is the truth what happens when you get too obsessed with Nintendo. You enjoy a series and start playing. You play an unhealthy amount of time and become obsessed with a certain series. Then the last step is you develop social anxiety and would never talk down to the company. Its a thing and there is proof to back it up.

Again, it still sold well, successfully even. I think it's a **** game but I can't deny it sold well
Nah breh this isn't a Nintendo specific thing, it's for gamers everywhere lmao, see the people angry at Total War 2 or some **** because of female generals

 

[Dee Dude]

God, I cannot believe we’re talking about Goku again.

And seriously? Goku having a better chance than ARMS? How delusional do you have to be thinking that an anime character is more likely than a fresh new Nintendo IP?

It’s like saying Naruto is more likely to be playable in than the Inklings from Splatoon in Smash 4, after all there’s plenty of Naruto fighting games that sold well so he’s basically a lock amirite?

 

[Kuon]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe this poster is baiting.

it would be most wise to not fall for it.

lol nobody's falling for it, because we know better what Sakurai wants in his games and what he doesn't

 

[Deleted member]

Goku beats geno easily with what I posted.

One comes from a video game that is a spin-off of one of the most iconic video game franchises in the world and has been acknowledged and even wanted by the game's own creator for the past decade.

The other was placed in the same category as Spongebob when brought up.

Nothing is impossible, but to say Goku trumps a character that has come from a video game when the game's own creator has stated multiple times that coming from a video game is the first core requirement for being an option is a little silly IMO.

 

[TheSmashBros]

Again, it still sold well, successfully even. I think it's a **** game but I can't deny it sold well
Nah breh this isn't a Nintendo specific thing, it's for gamers everywhere lmao, see the people angry at Total War 2 or some **** because of female generals

Majority of it comes from Nintendo I have seen it. It is quite sad and it needs to be stopped. Sure it sold well for the no name it is but that is because the loyal Nintendo fans had nothing else to play.

 

[dezeray112]

Gosh, I'd love it if the "Spirits" focused direct did in fact happen. Like, it just makes sense to do it around this time, you know? Ugh, me and my wishful thinking. Lol

I'm certain that we will eventually learn more about this "Spirits" mode within the next two months before the game releases.

 

[TheSmashBros]

Putting Arms in smash would have just as much backlash if not more than Minecraft Steve.

 

[Kuon]

Majority of it comes from Nintendo I have seen it. It is quite sad and it needs to be stopped. Sure it sold well for the no name it is but that is because the loyal Nintendo fans had nothing else to play.

Nothing else to play? What about Breath of the Wild? I got a Switch day one and I've never played Arms and I have enjoyed my Switch since I got it

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Majority of it comes from Nintendo I have seen it. It is quite sad and it needs to be stopped. Sure it sold well for the no name it is but that is because the loyal Nintendo fans had nothing else to play.

Naaaaah, it all depends on the places you look.
Doesn't matter to Nintendo's bank account, and got those fanatics to buy good Nintendo games like Wonderful 101 then

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Forget Minecraft, forget Shrek, forget Goku, we know discussion has hit rock bottom when it's assumed ARMS only sold well for "emperor's new clothes" reasons, and not because people genuinely like Punch-Out's spiritual successor...

There are three certainties in life

Death, taxes, and Goku in Smash discussions

Did someone say taxes?

https://www.deviantart.com/savvysnake/art/Isabelle-s-a-savage-764123936

 

[TheSmashBros]

Except Breath of

Nothing else to play? What about Breath of the Wild? I got a Switch day one and I've never played Arms and I have enjoyed my Switch since I got it

That is your defense? A WII U game. See what I mean? Zelda is a Wii U title. There was nothing exclusive on the switch to play.

 

[Deleted member]

Putting Arms in smash would have just as much backlash if not more than Minecraft Steve.

Speak for yourself, I'd love to see both.

*Sigh* Y'know what? Let's just do what Noipoi suggested and drop this. It's clear this person wants a fight and more we respond, the more we give them what they want.

If you like Goku and think he's a cool idea, good for you. I'm sorry that you do not find ARMs enjoyable. My best suggestion for you would be to play as the characters you like in the games you like and understand that everyone has different tastes than you, and that liking or disliking something does not make it objectively good or bad.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Putting Arms in smash would have just as much backlash if not more than Minecraft Steve.

Funny thing is, thousands (if not over a million) of people in both ARMS and Minecraft communities would love to see those characters which adds to why I'm tired of seeing Minecraft/Steve bashing even if it's becoming very minor.

 

[Dee Dude]

Putting Arms in smash would have just as much backlash if not more than Minecraft Steve.

>Brand new decent selling Nintendo IP getting playable content in Smash.
>causing backlash

what even is this post????

 

[Noipoi]

>Brand new decent selling Nintendo IP getting playable content in Smash.
>causing backlash

what even is this post????

It's bait.

 

[staindgrey]

I'm pretty sure not only every character in Smash is from a videogame, but also every assist trophy, trophy, sticker, song, etc. If I'm correct in my assumption, every single thing included in Smash Bros originated from a videogame, and never from a manga or anime, and that will never change, which means Goku will never happen

Not on Team Goku here, but every single character/item/stage was from specifically a Nintendo game until Snake. Then all of them were from games with some significant Nintendo history until Cloud.

A pattern does not beget a rule.

 

[Blargg888]

Forget Minecraft, forget Shrek, forget Goku, we know discussion has hit rock bottom when it's assumed ARMS only sold well for "emperor's new clothes" reasons, and not because people genuinely like Punch-Out's spiritual successor...



Did someone say taxes?

https://www.deviantart.com/savvysnake/art/Isabelle-s-a-savage-764123936

Wait, since when is ARMS Punch Out!!'s spiritual successor? They're really not that similar.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

literally no one cares about Arms.

Now that...that is wrong

Degeneration is weird because given how long ago it happened it's at least somewhat assumed that divergent evolution took place, given the difference in limb count between tame and feral wyverns in Archanea. On one hand Archanea-era Falchion doesn't do affective damage on the tamed, four-limbed wyverns ridden by Dracoknights, but does do effective damage on feral, two-limbed ones. In the Awakening era, the Falchion does effective damage on the decidedly tamed variant.

The wyvern thing is kind of a mess lol.

After reading this...I must say that Fire Emblem have a more sensible timeline than Zelda

 

[True Blue Warrior]

All of you know in your hearts that even Hello Kitty is far more deserving than Goku, since he's not the one with the second-highest grossing franchise of all time.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of ARMs, if Spring Man and Ribbon Girl get in as our first DLC, how do you think they'll handle them? Would they share a slot similar to Wii Fit Trainer's, Robin's, and Corrin's gender swaps, or would one of them be an Echo of the other?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

He probably won't be playable, and I'd appreciate him reappearing as a boss, but at the same time I'd also like to see a different Mother boss as the series has so much potential on that front. Mr. Belch, Natural Killer Cyborg or the Barrier Trio would be glorious.

I wouldn't mind Barrier Trio showing up for the endless Jojo jokes, but it would be cool to see the Frankystein Mark II, one of the first things to get me intrigued about Earthbound ever since it appeared in Ness' 64 ending.

Wait, since when is ARMS Punch Out!!'s spiritual successor? They're really not that similar.

While different in gameplay, both are boxing games about characters with colorful personalities punching the living daylights out of each other.

Also, is it just me or is the forum lagging again?

 

[TheSmashBros]

Be honest most of you didn't know who Richter Belmont was before his splash screen. I did because I am an all around gamer. My main will be Dr. Mario and Simon. Also, it would be Goku if he gets in because I know he has a bigger shot than most requested fighters. It is a fact no1 would care about an Arms rep if it got announced in the direct. It would be even more lackluster than the isabelle announcement. They did Simon and K.Rool before that and follow it up with boring Isabelle? That is so lame these last characters better create an impact instead of be some stupid no names.

 

[Frostwraith]

There is one tricky part though with X music, its composed by Sawano, while XB2 has the same composers then the original.

I also would not be surprised if we would only get a new Xenoblade track of the original game like the Final Boss theme, Unfinished battle, Satorl Marsh(night version) or Tragic Decision

XCX having Sawano instead of Mitsuda, ACE, and the other composers is no different from how various other franchises also changed composers throughout their run.

Examples being Mario main games having music by Koji Kondo and the other composers at Nintendo's sound team, but the Mario & Luigi games being composed by Yoko Shimomura or Mario Tennis/Golf composed by Motoi Sakuraba.

Most of the series in Smash have so many games and had a lot of different composers working on them, so I don't think Xenoblade is going to be treated differently in this regard, especially considering the music in Ultimate is series based, so any other Xenoblade stage besides Gaur Plain would have the same music options.

Sawano did tweet earlier this year about a recording for a secret project, and it was later revealed to be alongside other known Smash composers

Do you have a source for that? Because I also heard from people that it was just for rerecording Uncontrollable for Elma in XB2

Full disclosure here: I was the one to first notice about this in a Discord server but it seems the rumor has spread.

Here's the thing: earlier this year, Sawano had a short recording session with a variety of instruments for an undisclosed project. Whatever it is, he's clearly under NDA.

Thing is, he's had various other projects this year and for all of them the recording sessions would last for longer and he usually schedules different kinds of instrumentation for different sessions, i.e. band and orchestra recorded separately. And for these projects, he'd record full soundtracks.

So, because this mysterious project took a lot less time, it can be inferred that it's less music as well, especially since he didn't do the usual separate sessions for different instruments but he recorded everything in one day.

Around this time, other composers also had short recording sessions that they later revealed to be for Smash. One such case I know it was Yoko Shimomura.

Basically, I follow a lot of composers on Twitter, I noticed some patterns and I postulated the hypothesis that Sawano might be involved with Smash Bros. Ultimate. Keyword here being might. I guess people took my theory elsewhere and it started to circulate. You know how things are.

One reason behind my theory is the fact that a lot of composers in Smash often have been involved in games represented in Smash, sometimes even reworking their own songs for the occasion. Yoko Shimomura, for example, has revisited her work from the Mario & Luigi games and Street Fighter II and she's also been involved in the Xenoblade and Final Fantasy series, as she composed music for XC1 and FFXV. 3 of the composers in Ultimate have previously worked on Metal Gear Solid games, as another example. Jun Senoue and Tomoya Ohtani, known for their work in the Sonic series, are working on Ultimate with Senoue also having worked on Brawl.

In other words, the timing of Sawano's recording session, it being unusually short for his usual projects, him being involved with Xenoblade X which a game with potential representation in Ultimate and the strong precedence for Smash to bring back composers that were involved in the source games it draws from are the reasoning behind why I think there's a possibility that Sawano could be involved in this game, but it's by no means a guarantee.

This went longer than I expected, but I hope I've clarified everything.

 

[Kuon]

Except Breath of
That is your defense? A WII U game. See what I mean? Zelda is a Wii U title. There was nothing exclusive on the switch to play.

It doesn't matter if it's exclusive or not. It was a new game and it was on the Switch, therefore there was more games to play than just Arms

 

[SlickWylde]

Speaking of ARMs, if Spring Man and Ribbon Girl get in as our first DLC, how do you think they'll handle them? Would they share a slot similar to Wii Fit Trainer's, Robin's, and Corrin's gender swaps, or would one of them be an Echo of the other?

Delete your avatar. It offends me on a deep and personal level.

Also I'd be totally fine with ARMS characters. I'd play that game if my friends didn't hate it haha.

(Hopefully you know I'm kidding about the avatar)

 

[Iko MattOrr]

All of you know in your hearts that even Hello Kitty is far more deserving than Goku, since he's not the one with the second-highest grossing franchise of all time.

You know, the porting of Balloon Kid (GB) on NES (Japan only, Hello Kitty World) has Hello Kitty as the main character. Hello Kitty has some history with Nintendo (including Mario Maker).

Also a Mercedes car, as a fighter, wouldn't it be cool?

 

[TheSmashBros]

It doesn't matter if it's exclusive or not. It was a new game and it was on the Switch, therefore there was more games to play than just Arms

You just proved to me that fanboys are the reason that game sold decently and not because of it being an actual hit on the console.

 

[blackghost]

I think that an ARMS character is more likely for DLC than on the main roster, though they may do what they did for the Inklings in Smash 4 and save it for the next Smash... who knows.

inklings weren't in four because there wasnt a way to put their ink mechanic and its effect on enemies into smash 4 engine. smash 4 has no liquid mechanics or physics on stage.

 

[dezeray112]

Speaking of ARMs, if Spring Man and Ribbon Girl get in as our first DLC, how do you think they'll handle them? Would they share a slot similar to Wii Fit Trainer's, Robin's, and Corrin's gender swaps, or would one of them be an Echo of the other?

I could see both ways working. Guess all I can say is, we'll wait and see.

 

[TheSmashBros]

inklings weren't in four because there wasnt a way to put their ink mechanic and its effect on enemies into smash 4 engine. smash 4 has no liquid mechanics or physics on stage.

Its the same engine lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Delete your avatar. It offends me on a deep and personal level.

Also I'd be totally fine with ARMS characters. I'd play that game if my friends didn't hate it haha.

(Hopefully you know I'm kidding about the avatar)

No joke, Min Min would be some top tier newcomer hype for me if she got in. I'd pretty much be down with anyone from ARMs.

Also, no worries about the avatar. I know some people probably think it's cringe, I just like cute things, lol.

 

[staindgrey]

Forget Minecraft, forget Shrek, forget Goku, we know discussion has hit rock bottom when it's assumed ARMS only sold well for "emperor's new clothes" reasons, and not because people genuinely like Punch-Out's spiritual successor...

People do genuinely like it, but its competitive community stalled out because it's far more fun to play than watch. It's an awkward game to stream and watch. It's sort of a niche game in that it's technically a fighter, but it looks and feels like a party game made specifically for two people.

But we can't pretend that selling over two million physical copies wasn't at all aided by its timing. People who bought the Switch, at that time, essentially only had BotW, 1-2 Switch, an overpriced Bomberman and Mario Kart 8 again. ARMS didn't have a ton of competition on the console, and Nintendo marketed it well.

 

[osby]

Speaking of ARMs, if Spring Man and Ribbon Girl get in as our first DLC, how do you think they'll handle them? Would they share a slot similar to Wii Fit Trainer's, Robin's, and Corrin's gender swaps, or would one of them be an Echo of the other?

Echo fighters. They aren't gender swaps of each other and I doubt they'll have a Pikmin-like mechanic that makes them having clones hard.