Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[**Gilgamesh**]

Even in Ultimate; Sakurai has shown a consistent way on how ATs are handled. Dark Samus and Isabelle are both playable and subsequently Dark Samus costume on Samus was removed along with the assist trophy which meant that Sakurai was not okay with having Dark Samus (Isabelle too) as being assist trophies along with actual fighters. In fact never has a assist upgraded to playable character also remained an Assist. This is a clear and consistent pattern that still applies to this day.

AT are not "consolation prizes" that are suppose to mean maybe "next time as potential DLC" because Ironically Walugi has been an assist since brawl; add Ashley still being an assist as well (EVEN with wide popularity in Japan) and the "consolation prize" flies out the window otherwise they would have been added by now. Should I mention that Isaac also was outright removed as an Assist and never made playable either after Brawl. Consolation anyone?? Assist trophies are merely an added layer of gameplay for the casual audience. Yes, casual because Sakurai outright stated that is the reason why he even continues to put Items in the game.

Sakurai changes his views from game to game; Never has he changed his view during the same game or at least acted upon it otherwise Ridley would've been a DLC fighter in Smash 4 who had much more pure demand than Waluigi or any assist. Don't give THE but "he was saving Ridley for Ultimate; a better game" because the exact same can be said about Waluigi. I could just as easily say he's saving Krystal, Ashley, Waluigi, and Shovel Knight for the next inevitable Smash Title after Ultimate.

I don't see any evidence or even hints that Assist Trophies can also be playable characters at all (Dark Samus and Isabelle are not even AT in Ultimate) since all the patterns and precedent goes against that idea. This is merely wishful thinking .

Does this mean Mimikyu can also be made playable fighter too EVEN THOUGH he is apart of the pokeball item and was planned as a poke ball Pokemon . What about Bewear? Scizor?

This purely leads to a incredible slippery slope as at this point anyone could question why something is in the game in this fashion and advocate for it to be something else through "DLC" completely ignoring the time, effort, and dedication the developers took to implement them in this fashion. Why stop at Waluigi then? Lets also add Ashley, Lyn, Krystal, Shovel Knight, Mimikyu, Scizor, Bewear, or anything else that already confirmed to be in the game and not playable .

In fact, I believe this play a factor as to why Sakurai clearly makes the distinction of playable fighters only being playable fighters and assist trophies only being assist trophies for the duration of that specific entry. He really doesn't need even more people questioning his design decisions and being spammed with "hey make it like this instead; we don't like your decision on".

Now can we actually speculate things that aren't already confirmed in the game?

 

[Exalt4747]

Nintendo turned 129 today, apparently.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Even in Ultimate; Sakurai has shown a consistent way on how ATs are handled. Dark Samus and Isabelle are both playable and subsequently Dark Samus costume on Samus was removed along with the assist trophy which meant that Sakurai was not okay with having Dark Samus (Isabelle too) as being assist trophies along with actual fighters. In fact never has a assist upgraded to playable character also remained an Assist. This is a clear and consistent pattern that still applies to this day.

AT are not "consolation prizes" that are suppose to mean maybe "next time as potential DLC" because Ironically Walugi has been an assist since brawl; add Ashley still being an assist as well (EVEN with wide popularity in Japan) and the "consolation prize" flies out the window otherwise they would have been added by now. Should I mention that Isaac also was outright removed as an Assist and never made playable either after Brawl. Consolation anyone?? Assist trophies are merely an added layer of gameplay for the casual audience. Yes, casual because Sakurai outright stated that is the reason why he even continues to put Items in the game.

Sakurai changes his views from game to game; Never has he changed his view during the same game or at least acted upon it otherwise Ridley would've been a DLC fighter in Smash 4 who had much more pure demand than Waluigi or any assist. Don't give THE but "he was saving Ridley for Ultimate; a better game" because the exact same can be said about Waluigi. I could just as easily say he's saving Krystal, Ashley, Waluigi, and Shovel Knight for the next inevitable Smash Title after Ultimate.

I don't see any evidence or even hints that Assist Trophies can also be playable characters at all (Dark Samus and Isabelle are not even AT in Ultimate) since all the patterns and precedent goes against that idea. This is merely wishful thinking .

Does this mean Mimikyu can also be made playable fighter too EVEN THOUGH he is apart of the pokeball item and was planned as a poke ball Pokemon . What about Bewear? Scizor?

This purely leads to a incredible slippery slope as at this point anyone could question why something is in the game in this fashion and advocate for it to be something else through "DLC" completely ignoring the time, effort, and dedication the developers took to implement them in this fashion. Why stop at Waluigi then? Lets also add Ashley, Lyn, Krystal, Shovel Knight, Mimikyu, Scizor, Bewear, or anything else that already confirmed to be in the game and not playable .

In fact, I believe this play a factor as to why Sakurai clearly makes the distinction of playable fighters only being playable fighters and assist trophies only being assist trophies for the duration of that specific entry.

Now can we actually speculate things that aren't already confirmed in the game?

Now I kinda want to play as Bewear.

BEAR HUGS FOR EVERYONE

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Can Switches still be bought used after the account lock feature in the last update? Or has that killed the used market? Asking for a friend who wants to buy a used Switch so he can afford to get Smash when it comes out.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Is this a bad time to point out that every playable character can be on screen 8 times at once already? They change little details in stage backgrounds sometimes for flavor's sake, but this isn't actually important to them or you wouldn't be allowed to pick the same character several times.

Waluigi's problem isn't being an assist trophy. His problem is that he's just a meme character. Look, he's only ever appeared in Mario sports, Mario Kart, and Mario Party style games, and while he is unusually amusing and has the kind of limbs I think we all would love to abuse gameplay wise, I don't think anyone who is actually being honest with himself or herself can claim that Waluigi is anything but a filler character in every last appearance he's made. He exists to give Wario a partner in things like Mario Tennis and to be just another guy in a lineup of generic Mario characters that needs at least so many entries with the bonus that he's a lot less animation work for minigames than something like a Goomba or another random Mario enemy so from a dev perspective he's really appealing to include. In fact, his total lack of value and his generally stupid design (the absolute absurdity of "bad Luigi" is actually precious) is exactly why he's a meme in the first place; he's amusing for the same reasons that Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina were amusing in Mario Kart 8 except he's been playing that same game since the N64 era. Part of what I think you have to understand is that Sakurai takes Smash seriously, very seriously even, and when people take things seriously they don't tend to care about memes at all. Subtract the memes, and what does Waluigi have? Yeah, pretty much nothing...

 

[Iridium]

Nintendo turned 129 today, apparently.

I still want them to show off their hanafuda! Playing cards, for those who don't know.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I still want them to show off their hanafuda! Playing cards, for those who don't know.

I was gonna say, oo-er! Sounds a bit rude

 

[Chrono.]

Part of what I think you have to understand is that Sakurai takes Smash seriously, very seriously even, and when people take things seriously they don't tend to care about memes at all. Subtract the memes, and what does Waluigi have? Yeah, pretty much nothing...

And nothing says serious like adding the dog who laughs at you for having **** aim.

I don't see how Waluigi being a comedic character detracts from him.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

So, just a simple question.

Who wants Paperboy? I seem him as an Assist at the most.

 

[Deleted member]

I always saw Marth's tipper as a way to reference critical hits. Normally, a player won't care about proper spacing so to them sometimes they'll just land a stronger hit but much like FE, if you plan around it and strategize, you can raise your chances of critting.
or maybe im reading too much into a last minute melee character

 

[DarthEnderX]

With how GameFreak has been lately, they'll probably pull a Gen 6 and have up to about 970 in Gen 9, I think. I think 70-80 Pokémon is gonna become the norm, and I don't think we'll break 100 Pokémon in one generation again for a while

I'm sure that one of the Gens is gonna end at 1000. Even if they have to stuff a few dozen more into one of them.

There's no reason to think we'll have another Ballot. We had one less than 5 years ago and that gives Sakurai plenty to work off of especially since there haven't been that many new characters/series since then and games like Pokemon/Fire Emblem do new ballots anyway.

It's less about new characters, and more about people's priorities changing once their old votes have become characters.

The #2 character on the ballot isn't necessarily the 2nd pick of the people who voted for the #1 pick.

If a half-a-dozen or so of the top characters from the first ballot get added, that's a ton of votes freed up to go elsewhere, and they won't just automatically go to the next highest character on the old ballot.

So is Daisy but I guess being in one platformer title and an mobile app somehow makes her 100 times more important.

She's an Echo. If you want Waluigi to be an echo, then fine.

I say, Nintendo, make Waluigi's Wrecking Crew to give him a real moveset to work with in the future.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So is Daisy but I guess being in one platformer title and an mobile app somehow makes her 100 times more important.

Also it’s good to know the “your wanted character can’t be in because their series is well represented” fan rule from 2013 still exists.



Uh, why is this addressed towards me? I’m not the only one who thinks a DLC Ballot will happen.

Oh sorry I just saw your post mentioned voting for dlc and I haven't had time to fully look at the other posts.

I'll just step out for now lol.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Is this a bad time to point out that every playable character can be on screen 8 times at once already? They change little details in stage backgrounds sometimes for flavor's sake, but this isn't actually important to them or you wouldn't be allowed to pick the same character several times.

Waluigi's problem isn't being an assist trophy. His problem is that he's just a meme character. Look, he's only ever appeared in Mario sports, Mario Kart, and Mario Party style games, and while he is unusually amusing and has the kind of limbs I think we all would love to abuse gameplay wise, I don't think anyone who is actually being honest with himself or herself can claim that Waluigi is anything but a filler character in every last appearance he's made. He exists to give Wario a partner in things like Mario Tennis and to be just another guy in a lineup of generic Mario characters that needs at least so many entries with the bonus that he's a lot less animation work for minigames than something like a Goomba or another random Mario enemy so from a dev perspective he's really appealing to include. In fact, his total lack of value and his generally stupid design (the absolute absurdity of "bad Luigi" is actually precious) is exactly why he's a meme in the first place; he's amusing for the same reasons that Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina were amusing in Mario Kart 8 except he's been playing that same game since the N64 era. Part of what I think you have to understand is that Sakurai takes Smash seriously, very seriously even, and when people take things seriously they don't tend to care about memes at all. Subtract the memes, and what does Waluigi have? Yeah, pretty much nothing...

The problem is less that he's a meme character and more he was unintentionally made into a meme. He was never really a joke character, nor was he intended to be one. Sure, he has silly animations and abilities, but when you get down to it he's pretty much just Wario's partner.

There's nothing inherently wrong with having joke characters (look to Dan in Street Fighter), but if he's supposed to be a joke character then he's doing a horrible job at it in the games he's in.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Can Switches still be bought used after the account lock feature in the last update? Or has that killed the used market? Asking for a friend who wants to buy a used Switch so he can afford to get Smash when it comes out.

Isn't there an option to whipe your switch completely?

 

[Retroator]

I mean smashing to Never Gonna Give You Up would be an outright magical experience tbf

Also, Chris Taylor, the guy who people campaigned to have him play Ultimate due to his bed-ridden cancer got to play the game as some Nintendo employees brought a demo copy to him for a few hours. As I've following the guy's friends for a few years, it's really nice to see that happen

Thats nice af for them to do.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

We're still talking about the Waluigi being playable thing?


Welp, this is the new Ridley

 

[Iridium]

I always saw Marth's tipper as a way to reference critical hits. Normally, a player won't care about proper spacing so to them sometimes they'll just land a stronger hit but much like FE, if you plan around it and strategize, you can raise your chances of critting.
or maybe im reading too much into a last minute melee character

And I would argue Roy played even more last a last-minute character in Melee. The hitboxes, and strange sourspot placements.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

And I would argue Roy played even more last a last-minute character in Melee. The hitboxes, and strange sourspot placements.

bruh can't even properly shield or L-cancel.

 

[Over9000BPM]

So, just a simple question.

Who wants Paperboy? I seem him as an Assist at the most.
View attachment 166096

We actually discussed this like 390 pages ago. I’m not saying that to make you feel bad, but because I came up with his tag line:

PAPER BOY DELIVERS THE PAIN!

:D

 

[Exalt4747]

We're still talking about the Waluigi being playable thing?


Welp, this is the new Ridley

Purple.....has a role in the game already.....

Genesect confirmed for Smash 5 or 6.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

bruh can't even properly shield or L-cancel.

I mean L cancelling is a bad mechanic so relying on it isn't the best

 

[Iridium]

bruh can't even properly shield or L-cancel.

I have heard of that, but I've never seen it. Is there any footage?

 

[dezeray112]

Anything new whilst I was away?

 

[MSmariosonic]

The purple color is a cursed color

Don't matter how many purple characters Sakurai adds

A new one's fanbase is always lurking behind a corner

Until every purple video game character ever is in

 

[Frostwraith]

All clone characters in Melee were last minute additions, with Ganondorf being the last internally listed character in the game's files.

Roy's internal name is even "EMBLEM", which suggests they just chose him as a 2nd FE character to be cloned from Marth.

Ganondorf was probably the last added character as his model is based on the SpaceWorld 2000 demo, so it's not even exactly the Ocarina of Time design as the other Zelda characters in the game.

Internally, all characters are ordered alphabetically with the clones being separate and having a much more arbitrary order (presumably the order in which they were added), and only followed by NPCs and bosses like Master Hand or Sandbag.

 

[Iridium]

Anything new whilst I was away?

Well, no leaks or anything. Just normal discussion (and a bit of Waluigi).

 

[Cosmic77]

We're still talking about the Waluigi being playable thing?


Welp, this is the new Ridley

You have no idea.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

So, just a simple question.

Who wants Paperboy? I seem him as an Assist at the most.
View attachment 166096

If this is the price to pay for Gauntlet representation in Smash, I'll pay it tenfold.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I mean L cancelling is a bad mechanic so relying on it isn't the best

You can argue about whether the mechanic is good game design or not, but it's an absurd disadvantage for G&W to have compared to everyone else.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

We actually discussed this like 390 pages ago. I’m not saying that to make you feel bad, but because I came up with his tag line:

PAPER BOY DELIVERS THE PAIN!

:D

lol oh goody! Well that's good to know.

I wanted to ask because I thought about a few arcade characters in my mind that'll add a nice touch in Ultimate imo.
Mostly Midway titles. (Joust, Marble Madness, Smash TV, Robotron, Rampage, Defender, all the goodies as some sort (as assist trophies or just regular trophies) of a nod to line up with Namco' arcade games.)
Wouldn't say its likely, but man would it be nice.

 

[Frostwraith]

The purple color is a cursed color

Don't matter how many purple characters Sakurai adds

A new one's fanbase is always lurking behind a corner

Until every purple video game character ever is in

Purple is a special color.

 

[Iridium]

lol oh goody! Well that's good to know.

I wanted to ask because I thought about a few arcade characters in my mind that'll add a nice touch in Ultimate imo.
Mostly Midway titles. (Joust, Marble Madness, Smash TV, Robotron, Rampage, Defender, all the goodies as some sort (as assist trophies or just regular trophies) of a nod to line up with Namco' arcade games.)
Wouldn't say its likely, but man would it be nice.

Atari would have an even lower likelihood of a playable character in Smash most likely, so there's that.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

While I'm thinking of Fire Emblem.

Reminder: Captain Falcon showing up in the Robin Trailer in the Fire Emblem Cinematic Style and proceeding to nearly break the sound barrier on Lucina's face is one of the greatest things to ever happen in Smash.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Purple is a special color.

God I miss Brawl In The Family

 

[Frostwraith]

While I'm thinking of Fire Emblem.

Reminder: Captain Falcon showing up in the Robin Trailer in the Fire Emblem Cinematic Style and proceeding to nearly break the sound barrier on Lucina's face is one of the greatest things to ever happen in Smash.

That reminds me:

Chrom vs. Captain Falcon on Arena Ferox. The rematch we've waited 4 years for will soon be possible.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

You have no idea.

Brb making Wario and Ridley a tag team

 

[DevaAshera]

Nintendo turned 129 today, apparently.

Tomorrow, technically. My brother shares his bday with Nintendo.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

While I'm thinking of Fire Emblem.

Reminder: Captain Falcon showing up in the Robin Trailer in the Fire Emblem Cinematic Style and proceeding to nearly break the sound barrier on Lucina's face is one of the greatest things to ever happen in Smash.

Even though I like Lucina I love that Captain Falcon just waltzed into a trailer and completely showed up one of its newcomers. She obviously wasn't the main event, but I still found it hilarious.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Tomorrow, technically. My brother shares his bday with Nintendo.

...Your brother is 129?

 

[ZephyrZ]

There's nothing inherently wrong with having joke characters (look to Dan in Street Fighter), but if he's supposed to be a joke character then he's doing a horrible job at it in the games he's in.

Because swimming in the air and moonwalking mid tennis match isn't meant to be silly?

The character is intentionally bizarre and stupid. He was a joke before memes made him one, not the other way around.