Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kuon]

Gwen didn't say she thought there'd be 1000 Pokémon in Gen VIII, she was pointing out that 891 is very close to 1000.

We'll almost definitely have 1000 in Gen IX, though. Unless they pull a Gen 6 twice and only have ~80 New Pokémon in Gen 8 and Gen 9.

With how GameFreak has been lately, they'll probably pull a Gen 6 and have up to about 970 in Gen 9, I think. I think 70-80 Pokémon is gonna become the norm, and I don't think we'll break 100 Pokémon in one generation again for a while

 

[PlasmaDam]

I think Walugui deserves to be dlc a lot I know his fans can be annoying sometimes but Waluigi deserves to be in smash

 

[praline]

I think Walugui deserves to be dlc a lot I know his fans can be annoying sometimes but Waluigi deserves to be in smash

He really doesn’t.

 

[Dee Dude]

No offense but DLC comes, I can’t help feel that Ashely and Waluigi fans are gonna waste their votes if Sakurai comes out and states that Assist Trophies can’t be reprogrammed into Fighters. (They can be, but they probably won’t be)

And yes, Waluigi does deserve it, he’s practically made for Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The more I see people demand Waluigi the more I wat Dante to have Devils Never Cry in his potential trailer destroying Waluigi while David Baker yells LIFELESS CORPSE AS FAR QS THE EYE CAN SEEEEEEEEE

 

[PlasmaDam]

Not sound like a hardcore Waluigi fan but his fans have been waiting forever for him to be in smash also He is like very popular in the the Mario community and he would have a fun moveset and it would be Kinda of disappointing for him not be in this game I understand the Waluigi hate Praline but i think he desreves to be in smash

 

[Opossum]

He really doesn’t.

I'd say he does. I don't like using the word "deserves" since it risks sounding entitled and overly-invested, but Waluigi is an incredibly popular and well-known character and, alongside the Toads, is the only big mainstay Mario character not yet on the roster. Add in the potential for a quirky, fun moveset based around cheating and underhanded sports techniques, and Waluigi stands out really well.

 

[Iridium]

Still probably the most unintentional save I've ever seen.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don’t really care if Assist Trophies get upgraded to playable characters for DLC, and it isn’t “impossible” for it to happen, but I would just say I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t happen, despite fan demand.

Sakurai has certainly changed his vision of certain characters before, so it’s not that I don’t think he can change it. I just have the belief that when it comes to a game by game basis, he does have a vision for it.

I think Waluigi would be a hilarious character at this point though. It would probably be the most meme decision they could ever make.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Regarding the Waluigi situation

I'm not saying he's impossible but to promote an assist trophy to a playable character in the same game just sounds unrealistic to me.

Ridley didn't get promoted to a playable character in smash 4 after being a stage boss, did he? And i'm pretty sure the purple space dragon had a bigger fanbase during that time than Waluigi does now.

Again i'm not saying he's impossible and I'd gladly welcome him in the roster if he's in. I just think it won't happen at least in this game.

 

[Frostwraith]

Waluigi would be a fun addition, but he's already been confirmed as an Assist Trophy.

And no, don't give me "but Sakurai could change his mind" or "he could still be DLC". The fact is that they already put the resources into implementing his Assist Trophy role. They're not going to scrap that so easily especially when there are so many other characters that can still join the roster and represent more franchises.

Mario already has 8 characters, after all, and all 7 Koopalings are available as Bowser Jr.'s alternate costumes, along with having the most amount of stages with 18, so that's plenty of representation.

If Waluigi hasn't been added in 3 games, whereas even Ridley, whom Sakurai has once stated as being impossible to add, got in the game, it means Sakurai likely hasn't come up with something for Waluigi that fits his standards.

Daisy fans had it easier because Daisy is literally Peach 2.0 so she was an easy addition as an echo. She wouldn't have been added as a unique character no matter how Daisy fans pretend otherwise.

 

[Opossum]

Regarding the Waluigi situation

I'm not saying he's impossible but to promote an assist trophy to a playable character in the same game just sounds unrealistic to me.

Ridley didn't get promoted to a playable character in smash 4 after being a stage boss, did he? And i'm pretty sure the purple space dragon had a bigger fanbase during that time than Waluigi does now.

Again i'm not saying he's impossible and I'd gladly welcome him in the roster if he's in. I just think it won't happen at least in this game.

I mean to be fair, the Wii U was a sinking ship and Sakurai likely knew that. Saving characters like Inkling and Ridley for Ultimate was a wise business decision.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

No offense but DLC comes, I can’t help feel that Ashely and Waluigi fans are gonna waste their votes if Sakurai comes out and states that Assist Trophies can’t be reprogrammed into Fighters. (They can be, but they probably won’t be)

And yes, Waluigi does deserve it, he’s practically made for Smash.

There's no reason to think we'll have another Ballot. We had one less than 5 years ago and that gives Sakurai plenty to work off of especially since there haven't been that many new characters/series since then and games like Pokemon/Fire Emblem do new ballots anyway.

I'd be surprised if we had another ballot.

 

[praline]

I'd say he does. I don't like using the word "deserves" since it risks sounding entitled and overly-invested, but Waluigi is an incredibly popular and well-known character and, alongside the Toads, is the only big mainstay Mario character not yet on the roster. Add in the potential for a quirky, fun moveset based around cheating and underhanded sports techniques, and Waluigi stands out really well.

I don’t think any characters outside of the big name ones deserve to be in. The other characters while cool or interesting don’t. If they get in, great. If not well maybe next time.

Waluigi doesn’t deserve to be in Smash because he’s a side character that only exists in spin off games and sole reason for existence is so that Wario could have a partner in tennis.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I mean we could get a ballot cause they going all out for this smash game so a ballot would be hype as frick like Maybe a smash ballot where assist trophies could be playable if they win imagine the chaos that would happen

 

[SvartWolf]

Sure thing. Here is a post on the subject I made about 3500 pages ago. Feel free to give it a look!

BTW opossum, ive seen lots of people calling Robin's character "boring" but i honestly never remembered it actually bothering me and i remember loving the character...

maybe is because i never treated him like a self insert and did a female robin instead (BTW i only managed to beat awekening once since i don't own a 3ds) and since i didn't understood completely how the relationship stuff worked, i ended pairing Crhom and Robin since i always keep them in the retaguard since they were important units.

The thing is I loved Mom-Robin... specially the realtion between Her and chrom and Lucina and maybe that helped me enjoy more the second part of the game?

Spoiler: awekening spoilers

plus near the end i felt that the Scene between robin and Lucina was waay more impacting, and showed way more resolve and desesperation in Lucina character if she was thinking of striking down her mother, rather than her dad best pal...

So whats are your thoughts regarding the DadChrom, MomRobin, Lucina relationship? i just remeber enjoying it a lot.

 

[Opossum]

Waluigi would be a fun addition, but he's already been confirmed as an Assist Trophy.

And no, don't give me "but Sakurai could change his mind" or "he could still be DLC". The fact is that they already put the resources into implementing his Assist Trophy role. They're not going to scrap that so easily especially when there are so many other characters that can still join the roster and represent more franchises.

Mario already has 8 characters, after all, and all 7 Koopalings are available as Bowser Jr.'s alternate costumes, along with having the most amount of stages with 18, so that's plenty of representation.

If Waluigi hasn't been added in 3 games, whereas even Ridley, whom Sakurai has once stated as being impossible to add, got in the game, it means Sakurai likely hasn't come up with something for Waluigi that fits his standards.

Daisy fans had it easier because Daisy is literally Peach 2.0 so she was an easy addition as an echo. She wouldn't have been added as a unique character no matter how Daisy fans pretend otherwise.

"Assists can't be promoted as DLC" is nothing but a baseless fan rule. And I'm sure porting over the same Assist since Brawl took an extraordinary amount of work...

I'll never get the "they put so much work into his Assist" line of logic. I don't think Sakurai is overly prideful enough to let a decision he made back in Brawl stop him from pleasing fans. That'd just be turning down lots of potential profit money. That's not even just directed at Waluigi, but Assists in general. If there is notable demand, I highly doubt they'll mourn the loss of the grueling five minutes it took to port his data from the last game. He got a new texture and a launch animation, that's it.

 

[Dee Dude]

So is Daisy but I guess being in one platformer title and an mobile app somehow makes her 100 times more important.

Also it’s good to know the “your wanted character can’t be in because their series is well represented” fan rule from 2013 still exists.

There's no reason to think we'll have another Ballot. We had one less than 5 years ago and that gives Sakurai plenty to work off of especially since there haven't been that many new characters/series since then and games like Pokemon/Fire Emblem do new ballots anyway.

I'd be surprised if we had another ballot.

Uh, why is this addressed towards me? I’m not the only one who thinks a DLC Ballot will happen.

 

[Darkfur]

Certainly they could upgrade Waluigi to playable and keep his assist trophy in. You see, when Waluigi joins the fray Alphonso stomps his foes as an assist in his place.

 

[Frostwraith]

"Assists can't be promoted as DLC" is nothing but a baseless fan rule. And I'm sure porting over the same Assist since Brawl took an extraordinary amount of work...

I'll never get the "they put so much work into his Assist" line of logic. I don't think Sakurai is overly prideful enough to let a decision he made back in Brawl stop him from pleasing fans. That'd just be turning down lots of potential profit money. That's not even just directed at Waluigi, but Assists in general. If there is notable demand, I highly doubt they'll mourn the loss of the grueling five minutes it took to port his data from the last game. He got a new texture and a launch animation, that's it.

Exactly, he doesn't let his decisions from previous games influence the current games.

Which is why we have Dark Samus and Isabelle as playable characters while their Assist Trophy versions are gone in this game.

There is this consistency in no character being an NPC and playable at the same time, save for minor stage cameos that are either removed or replaced by another character when those characters are in play (cases in point: King Dedede in Dream Land and Toon Link in Spirit Traiin).

Until we see a playable character that also fills the role of Assist Trophy, it's safe to assume that Waluigi isn't coming to this game based on precedence.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Oy

Something a bit off topic here


Anyone else saddened by the fact that doesn't have his own page on Wikipedia?

Yet Alucard does have one.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"Assists can't be promoted as DLC" is nothing but a baseless fan rule. And I'm sure porting over the same Assist since Brawl took an extraordinary amount of work...

I'll never get the "they put so much work into his Assist" line of logic. I don't think Sakurai is overly prideful enough to let a decision he made back in Brawl stop him from pleasing fans. That'd just be turning down lots of potential profit money. That's not even just directed at Waluigi, but Assists in general. If there is notable demand, I highly doubt they'll mourn the loss of the grueling five minutes it took to port his data from the last game. He got a new texture and a launch animation, that's it.

Sakurai's been swallowing his pride more than ever in Ultimate too, Ridley, hazard toggle and the competitive focus all prove that. It's the same man who pettily implemented tripping to piss off the competitive scene after all

 

[Deleted member]

If Assists barred a character from being DLC, their whole point of being consolation prizes would go out of the window. ATs are a "sorry they didn't make it in, maybe next time but look, we know they exist!" and DLC is that "next time".

 

[Opossum]

I don’t think any characters outside of the big name ones deserve to be in. The other characters while cool or interesting don’t. If they get in, great. If not well maybe next time.

Waluigi doesn’t deserve to be in Smash because he’s a side character that only exists in spin off games and sole reason for existence is so that Wario could have a partner in tennis.

But in the end, if it makes a lot of people happy, does it really matter that he just plays sports? Clearly people find him to be an endearing character, so arbitrary limitations shouldn't get in his way.

BTW opossum, ive seen lots of people calling Robin's character "boring" but i honestly never remembered it actually bothering me and i remember loving the character...

maybe is because i never treated him like a self insert and did a female robin instead (BTW i only managed to beat awekening once since i don't own a 3ds) and since i didn't understood completely how the relationship stuff worked, i ended pairing Crhom and Robin since i always keep them in the retaguard since they were important units.

The thing is I loved Mom-Robin... specially the realtion between Her and chrom and Lucina and maybe that helped me enjoy more the second part of the game?

Spoiler: awekening spoilers

plus near the end i felt that the Scene between robin and Lucina was waay more impacting, and showed way more resolve and desesperation in Lucina character if she was thinking of striking down her mother, rather than her dad best pal...

So whats are your thoughts regarding the DadChrom, MomRobin, Lucina relationship? i just remeber enjoying it a lot.

I mean personally I prefer Chrom/Sumia because its closest to canon, but the scene toward the end with Lucina if Robin is her mother is really effective. The main issue I have with Chrom/F!Robin is that the supports kind of suck. Chrom's support with male Robin goes in-depth on each of their characters and their friendship dynamic, while Chrom's support with female Robin kind of resorts to cheap anime comedy mixed with light domestic abuse on Robin's part, but played for laughs.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Again Waluigi's best chance getting into Smash is the next game.

 

[Deleted member]

Oy

Something a bit off topic here


Anyone else saddened by the fact that doesn't have his own page on Wikipedia?

Yet Alucard does have one.

that's because he's the most important and popular CV character, duh

 

[Fastblade5035]

If Assists barred a character from being DLC, their whole point of being consolation prizes would go out of the window. ATs are a "sorry they didn't make it in, maybe next time but look, we know they exist!" and DLC is that "next time".

i dont really agree, unless people actually wanted Nintendog and Pong and Chef Kawasaki to be playable of course someone did, i know. ATs are just for things that make good supporting roles and nothing more, I think.

 

[Dee Dude]

As a massive Waluigi supporter, it’s best to save him for Smash 6 imo, I doubt ATs will be upgraded.

It’s possible but not gonna happen.

 

[Iridium]

Oy

Something a bit off topic here


Anyone else saddened by the fact that doesn't have his own page on Wikipedia?

Yet Alucard does have one.

Yeah, I noticed that too. A bit strange, but I don't edit or make pages there.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oy

Something a bit off topic here


Anyone else saddened by the fact that doesn't have his own page on Wikipedia?

Yet Alucard does have one.

Damn, Simon doesn't get a wikipedia page but the lesbian vampire boss does. Clearly, a war on Christianity

 

[Opossum]

Exactly, he doesn't let his decisions from previous games influence the current games.

Which is why we have Dark Samus and Isabelle as playable characters while their Assist Trophy versions are gone in this game.

There is this consistency in no character being an NPC and playable at the same time, save for minor stage cameos that are either removed or replaced by another character when those characters are in play (cases in point: King Dedede in Dream Land and Toon Link in Spirit Traiin).

Until we see a playable character that also fills the role of playable character, it's safe to assume that Waluigi isn't coming to this game based on precedence.

The issue comes with treating an assumption as a rule. Because that's all the "Assist=No DLC" line of logic is, an assumption at best, and a self-fulfilling prophecy at worst. If people go in assuming it can't be done, the demand dies down and then it won't be done.

That's why it's better to assume that no option is truly off the table. If it doesn't happen and some folks get disappointed, that's on them. People shouldn't feel the need to police others' hype anyway.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I mean guys Sakurai goes back on his word a lot A thing the smash fanbase forgets is that Sakurai is Sakurai you can't predict Sakurai he does what he wants

 

[Deleted member]

i dont really agree, unless people actually wanted Nintendog and Pong and Chef Kawasaki to be playable of course someone did, i know. ATs are just for things that make good supporting roles and nothing more, I think.

It's clear it's a mix of both. Not!Pong, Chef Kawasaki, the Moon, Sheriff and Andross are all assists that couldn't or wouldn't be made playable but characters like Krystal, Alucard, Zero, Shovel Knight and Waluigi are there as a way to please their fans and reference them because they simply didn't make the cut.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Either way

I expect missing assist trophies like Skull Kid and Shadow to make it in sooner.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

While there's a host of current AT characters I would like to see playable, I feel doing so would undermine the point of Assist Trophies and open the floodgates for people to start begging for all of them to be promoted.

 

[ZephyrZ]

A little late to this discussion, but Pokemon Trainer already represents the gameplay of Pokemon far better then most characters represent the gameplay of theirs. And they're from a completely different genre.

Marth does nothing to represent slow, tactical based combat with the threat of permadeath. Yoshi isn't stuck playing a permanent escort mission. Pacman doesn't have to flee from ghosts every time he's on screen. Fox and Captain Falcon are fighting on foot rather then in large vehicles all the time. All of those things would make them represent their games better, but that wouldn't make them better characters. Far from it.

Pokemon Trainer manages to represent the team and switching aspect of Pokemon to allow you to incorporate Pokemon's strategic side into gameplay. Squirtle has mobility and combos, making him great at wracking up damage. Ivysaur has range and zoning, making her ideal for defensive play. Zard has weight, recovery and power, making him great at surviving and finishing stocks. Furthermore, they also sort of represent evolution by all being in different evolutionary states.

We Trainers are pretty lucky with what we've got. Pokemon Trainer is already a very ambitious character for a number of reasons, and I'd argue they might just be the hardest one to develop for already because of their switching mechanic. The only characters who represent their games better are probably Olimar or characters who already come from very similar genres (Mega Man, Kirby, Ryu) already, and I suppose maybe Robin.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Tbh if there’s an AT I’m 100% certain will return as one, it’s Saki. S&P sadly hasn’t had a game since Star Successor around 2010.

That, or Isa Jo will replace Saki as the S&P AT

 

[Flamingbird]

waluigi will smash!

 

[SvartWolf]

I mean we could get a ballot cause they going all out for this smash game so a ballot would be hype as frick like Maybe a smash ballot where assist trophies could be playable if they win imagine the chaos that would happen

While i think that it would be amazing, and very hype.... dude, thats going to be a bloodbath.

Imagine the more toxic fanboys, and imagine if they actually have something to win by harassing the other character fanboys... brrr...
to the point that i literally can see someone stabbing another for a "smash related discussion" and even if i think Nintendo would be hardly to blame there, it would still be a PR disaster (I mean.. if people can stab each another for a macdonalds sauce)

Sadly i think this would be an instance that Toxic fanboys would ruin it for everyone...

I mean personally I prefer Chrom/Sumia because its closest to canon, but the scene toward the end with Lucina if Robin is her mother is really effective. The main issue I have with Chrom/F!Robin is that the supports kind of suck. Chrom's support with male Robin goes in-depth on each of their characters and their friendship dynamic, while Chrom's support with female Robin kind of resorts to cheap anime comedy mixed with light domestic abuse on Robin's part, but played for laughs.

I can't deny that... damn those support conversations were horrible XD In my headcannon i will replace them with the male ones with some added sexual tension XD

I don't think that i digged too much the siblings relation between Morgan and lucina too much either... I don't think that i actually really understood too much Morgan character to be honest...

 

[MSmariosonic]

waluigi will smash!

You make it sound like you're part of a campaign to help Waluigi lose his virginity.