Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

Why would Sakurai want to promote Waluigi to playable status in Ultimate after he deliberately decided to make him an AT?

This.

I mean the fact people even theorizes this is just stretching things. Like really I've never seen people clamoring for someone so much despite being deconfirmed. Not even Shovel Knight fans are this persistent.

Waluigi fans...

Just wait until the next game alright...

 

[MSmariosonic]

I will actually be furious, for the same reason I’m mad about you-know-who. Like is it too much to ask that characters look like they actually do in their own games?!

As a certain someone said:

It would be confusing to have multiple characters on the battlefield who exactly look same.

Having two pokémon trainers with the exact same colors would just be confusing

 

[NextChannelGames]

That's an awkward way to start a page.

Anyway, who's gonna main Steve? Our little thread tournament is gonna be interesting when it happens haha


Genius.

I will!

I think a point to make is that, if they do go through with Steve:

As a company, they try to market to the largest crowd possible, not just the hardcore gamers / Smash community. Minecraft Steve would boost their chances in succeeding, as Minecraft can be marketed to nearly everyone. If kids see Minecraft in Smash, they may want to buy a Steve amiibo with the game and play as him all day and use him to beat up the villains (well, hopefully they and their parents could hear about the amiibo stuff).

Of course, any Minecraft content in general would do exactly that...well, as long as it get's a stage at the least. Though, if a Creeper assist trophy is shown off, I'm not sure how the kids would react to that alone...they just might want to see a lot more Minecraft stuff, though. Marketing may end up not succeeding if there isn't decent Minecraft content, unless the kids love Smash regardless.

I agree, I think Nintendo would want Steve to be playable to be able to sell Smash Bros to kids, casual audience and the millions of Minecraft fans. Because if there isn’t much content then it’s not a great marketing move to have less Minecraft content In because how big this series have been the past decade it would be very disappointing to not have Steve to be playable. Kids aren’t going to be happy for Christmas... Though I wonder if they would want more Fortnite instead since that’s been huge lately

 

[CosmicQuark]

Why would Sakurai want to promote Waluigi to playable status in Ultimate after he deliberately decided to make him an AT?

His best chance is the next Smash game.

While I do agree his best chance is in the next Smash game, as Reggie said, Sakurai takes fan input into consideration. I feel like it's another silly fan rule that if a characters are an assist, they can't be playable, even as DLC. If Sakurai really wanted to, he could make Waluigi DLC. The question is would Sakurai want to, and then I refer back to his best chance being in the next Smash game. Although, if we get assist to playable, I prefer Bomberman first.

 

[osby]

This kind of nut.

Thanks, now, if you guys don't mind, I'm going to lock myself to somewhere with a English dictionary.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I seriously believe Nintendo will get sakurai to do the PR stunt of the year and make waluigi the first guy to get the upgrade from AT in game. They would probably just add a minor AT like charging chuck in his place in the update. I think people underestimate how far and wide the waluigi is not in smash stuff spread and how it kinda overshadowed everything else at e3. Imagine how you'd feel if you pulled out your years best game with every vet and ridley and people point at the funny purple man and say he should have been in.

And I would have pulled a Hideki Kamiya with a passive aggressive statement and precede to block people left and right if I was Sakurai but Sakurai and Nintendo are too mannered for that.

 

[TreeBranch]

I'm sure Sakurai didn't realize how much demand Waluigi had before E3. This is probably very similar to what happened to Mewtwo in smash 4.

Edit: I'm talking about DLC

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

To make his reveal a bigger surprise.

OK sure but that just seems like so much effort to go through to accomplish a goal that could be done equally as effectively by just making a reveal trailer.

Heck they even had a Waluigi AT in he E3 demo. That had to require some time and resources. Why would they deliberately let that go to waste? Even for a supposed "surprise reveal"? It just seems so impractical.

If we were talking DLC and he was made playable because of mass fan demand? Fine. Sure. Whatever. Heck, I might even say it's more possible than people are giving it credit for. But that still leaves his existing AT; we haven't seen a situation like this before so we don't know how it'll go down, so I have my doubts we'll see it happen.

 

[Over9000BPM]

As a certain someone said:


Having two pokémon trainers with the exact same colors would just be confusing

Mirror matches are the exception rather than the rule for most casual players. Wow, Just wow. The one thing I was still looking forward to.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Mirror matches are the exception rather than the rule for most casual players. Wow, Just wow. The one thing I was still looking forward to.

But it's such a minor thing tho

 

[Frostwraith]

You say my ideas are impossible to implement, and yet gave suggestions on how to implement most of them. Alrighty.
I did not say "more representation in Pokemon." I said *better* representation in Pokemon.
I additionally gave three versions of how I see Trainer could work better. Maybe one needs more thought. Then choose one of the other two. You are clearly arguing just to be combative, as your points dont even defend that which you say.

And if we seriously need to get into the idea of impossible, then I apologize with this quote. "One can only achieve the impossible by attempting the unimaginable."

They're impossible in the sense that they contradict Smash's simplicity.

I'm basically trying to even see how would they even work from a technical standpoint since you just tout ideas without thinking on how would they mesh with Smash's gameplay.

You tout about representation this and representation that, but that is irrelevant to making a game. What are the mechanics behind your ideas? How would they flow? How would they be balanced?

You don't detail on any of these questions. You just tout ideas that I can see from a mile away would be a complete mess at odds with Smash's simplicity. You're talking about representation. I'm talking about gameplay, mechanics, balancing and design.

Robin's moveset works because Sakurai was able to mesh FE mechanics with Smash gameplay, but there's thought put into it. What moves would be affected, what liberties could be taken, how could weapon durability be compensated through gameplay (i.e. the special moves are particularly powerful compared to other special moves in the game). There's flow, there's vision, there's a clear implementation.

With Robin, only Smash attacks and special moves are affected by his unique mechanic. The weapon uses getting automatically refilled is a liberty so Robin wouldn't be without weapons for the rest of the match. Robin has the extra option to use stronger aerial moves at the expense of using up his Levin Sword, therefore running the risk of having weaker Smash attacks.

In other words, the FE mechanics are implemented in a simple, efficient way and don't disrupt the gameplay.

Your Pokémon Trainer idea right from the start makes character selection itself a more convoluted process compared to the rest of the game that would be incredibly difficult to balance since you'd have to consider all potential three character combinations. It's the opposite of simplicity that Smash stands for.

I'm not doing this to be combative. I'm saying that you're not putting enough thought in your ideas and how would they work in Smash, if they would work in Smash at all in the first place.

When you suggested that Piplup and Zoroark would be echo fighters of Squirtle and Lucario, I immediately realized that you weren't putting enough thought into your ideas, just going for a "oh, this character looks similar to another, it's an echo", when that is not how things work with echoes in the first place.

 

[Over9000BPM]

But it's such a minor thing tho

And like I keep telling you people, having characters actually look like they do in their own damn games is kind of a big deal to me. I’m not a competitive player, I just want to watch my beloved video game characters have a big party/punch-up together.

 

[blackghost]

Ah, yes... the good old days when we got our very first Splatoon game, in 1985.

ah yes good ole smashboards that cant tell the difference between an announcement trailer and character reveal trailers even tho we've had them since brawl. inking reveal was like snake brawl reveal. no gameplay just character confirmation and game announcement. every character reveal trailer has a pattern 1. skit (takes a variety of forms cg animation, in game skit, or source game skit) 2. character pun or reference flashes on screen 3. gameplay

 

[Will]

Waluigi fans...

Just wait until the next game alright...

That's a sick generalization. And not the 90s definition of it either.

 

[MSmariosonic]

And like I keep telling you people, having characters actually look like they do in their own damn games is kind of a big deal to me. I’m not a competitive player, I just want to watch my beloved video game characters have a big party/punch-up together.

I partially understand that

but,

90% of the time I play Smash I play it in a casual way. So i'm not a competitive player either and yet this doesn't bother me at all.

We got a freakin' Leaf alt! To me that's good enough.

Using some imagination is also welcome. You can bet i'm going to tell people I main Ethan just because i'll be using the trainers 3rd color.

I actually remember during the Brawl days I pretended R.O.B. was controlled by Eggman, so I used to do these Mario & Sonic vs Bowser & Eggman matches.

 

[Deleted member]

Heck they even had a Waluigi AT in he E3 demo.

Not that I'm advocating for the late addition idea, but they didn't.
Waluigi never showed up in the E3 Demo.

Only in the initial breakdown for Ultimate.

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

Did that 4chan guy post the video yet or did he delay it again

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Kids aren’t going to be happy for Christmas...

There's already a ton of characters and content from games that kids would recognise in Smash Ultimate. The idea that kids would be alienated or unhappy with the roster is not a realistic one.

 

[Opossum]

Why would Sakurai want to promote Waluigi to playable status in Ultimate after he deliberately decided to make him an AT?

His best chance is the next Smash game.

This.

I mean the fact people even theorizes this is just stretching things. Like really I've never seen people clamoring for someone so much despite being deconfirmed. Not even Shovel Knight fans are this persistent.

Waluigi fans...

Just wait until the next game alright...

"Assist Trophies can't be promoted to playable as DLC" is a dumb fan rule and nothing more. It simply exists so people can close themselves off to a smaller pool of character options so they can hold onto a belief that their favorite character, who isn't in the game at all, still has a chance.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Did that 4chan guy post the video yet or did he delay it again

Nothing really happened. A lot of 4chan users claiming to be the guy did try to rickroll people...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

After Awakening and Fates, I doubt either of those are *the* favorite anymore. There's a whole generation now of 3DS-only FE players that know Ike from Smash and Lyn from Heroes.

They didn't even bother putting Ike in the Warriors games.

You'd be surprised then. Lyn and Ike are 100% still the most popular Fire Emblem characters. Choose your legends proves that alone.

They left out Hector, and Roy, and Eliwood, and Ephraim, and Elincia, and Micaiah, and Ike out and they knew it was a bad idea but they stuck with three games, Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates for some reason. My boi Ike was the reason I didn't pick up Warriors and from what I've heard, it didn't do good in sales likely because of the choice to, basically, ignore old school FE fans like myself. I'm not hurt over it because I'm sure the sequel will be a lot better but I know that's not going to happen for at least another couple years.

 

[92MilesPrower]

It's because Smash fans hate adapting primarily

GAME TIME! Pick your most wanted character and think of something they could jokingly reference in their trailers. Stuff like the Yoshi's throwing Mr. Saturns to each other. For example, Dante. Dante gets pinned by Corrin's side B, fights Bayonetta and Ganondorf and gets chased by Belmonts when in Devil Trigger form

Regardless whether he's an echo or unique, here's 2 for Shadow:

Runs past Sonic and warps away as a giant R.O.B. lands behind Sonic in New Pork City or Fourside

His moves and Sonic's moves collide with each other and cancel out as they fight in Kongo Jungle

 

[TMNTSSB4]

(Please no Cloud/PAC-MAN argument, they are unavoidable situations)

I wanted a Black Pac-Man though...Blac-Man

Why would Sakurai want to promote Waluigi to playable status in Ultimate after he deliberately decided to make him an AT?

His best chance is the next Smash game.

Cause Waluigi has the powers of rejection being overused in order to destroy all life by making the people T-Pose (SMG4 references)

You'd be surprised then. Lyn and Ike are 100% still the most popular Fire Emblem characters. Choose your legends proves that alone.

They left out Hector, and Roy, and Eliwood, and Ephraim, and Elincia, and Micaiah, and Ike out and they knew it was a bad idea but they stuck with three games, Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates for some reason. My boi Ike was the reason I didn't pick up Warriors and from what I've heard, it didn't do good in sales likely because of the choice to, basically, ignore old school FE fans like myself. I'm not hurt over it because I'm sure the sequel will be a lot better but I know that's not going to happen for at least another couple years.

On the bright side...atleast they managed to put in Lyn and Celica for Warriors while Ike still has Smash...and they all have Heroes

I will actually be furious, for the same reason I’m mad about you-know-who. Like is it too much to ask that characters look like they actually do in their own games?!

tbf, wouldn’t make sense for to look the same unless they had some sort of difference (like shades, glasses, or Mega Charizard X)

 

[Makai Wars]

I really feel like people don't actually know what Echo fighters are, like do people not get that Echo fighters would need to match skeletons and be able to share animations with their base form without it looking weird? The only reason Chrom's bland ass has Aether is because all FE characters have the same skeleton so it was an easy copypaste job. I'm seeing people suggest stuff like making Banjo+Kazooie an Echo of Duck Hunt or taking Raichu and putting him on top of Pikachu despite their wildly different anatomy, or even worse, trying to use Chrom as an example when they attempt to mishmash various moves and characters into one.
"Make Dixie a Diddy Echo but give her Donkey Kong's Up B, it'll totally look normal lmao I know what I'm talking about"

If Echoes stray too far from the base form, this is what you end up with.

 

[Darkraid]

HOLY **** WHAT?! I CALLED IT, GIVE ME THE SAUCE NOW

Theres a trailer for it

 

[Over9000BPM]

I partially understand that

but,

90% of the time I play Smash I play it in a casual way. So i'm not a competitive player either and yet this doesn't bother me at all.

We got a freakin' Leaf alt! To me that's good enough.

Using some imagination is also welcome. You can bet i'm going to tell people I main Ethan just because i'll be using the trainers 3rd color.

I actually remember during the Brawl days I pretended R.O.B. was controlled by Eggman, so I used to do these Mario & Sonic vs Bowser & Eggman matches.

In a twisted way, I’m almost glad it happened, because now we can discuss my views on character representation without the uncomfortable subtext I guess

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

It's because Smash fans hate adapting primarily

GAME TIME! Pick your most wanted character and think of something they could jokingly reference in their trailers. Stuff like the Yoshi's throwing Mr. Saturns to each other. For example, Dante. Dante gets pinned by Corrin's side B, fights Bayonetta and Ganondorf and gets chased by Belmonts when in Devil Trigger form

A Rhythm Heaven Character (It can be anyone, but this reference would make the most sense if it was the Interview Girl) interacting with Incineroar at Boxing Ring...

Does he pose for the fans?

Yes, yes he does...

 

[staindgrey]

You'd be surprised then. Lyn and Ike are 100% still the most popular Fire Emblem characters. Choose your legends proves that alone.

They left out Hector, and Roy, and Eliwood, and Ephraim, and Elincia, and Micaiah, and Ike out and they knew it was a bad idea but they stuck with three games, Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates for some reason. My boi Ike was the reason I didn't pick up Warriors and from what I've heard, it didn't do good in sales likely because of the choice to, basically, ignore old school FE fans like myself. I'm not hurt over it because I'm sure the sequel will be a lot better but I know that's not going to happen for at least another couple years.

You have to remember the timing, though. Choose Your Legends was announced in the exact same direct as Warriors' first actual trailer with more than a logo, which prominently didn't show Ike, Lyn or Roy-- all of whom then led in votes for a ballot that really didn't do much to stop people from voting multiple times. Roy especially seems to indicate more of a backlash vote than a genuine one, since his game never even released in the west and was likely more of a "Nintendo please put him back in Smash" vote.

It's hard to judge, and I could definitely be wrong. I just don't think the first CYL contest can be used as irrefutable evidence considering the circumstances. I also believe that Warriors underperformed in large part due to the over representation of Fates and lack of representation for more classic characters, though.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A Rhythm Heaven Character (It can be anyone, but this reference would make the most sense if it was the Interview Girl) interacting with Incineroar at Boxing Ring...

Does he pose for the fans?

 

[Opossum]

I really feel like people don't actually know what Echo fighters are, like do people not get that Echo fighters would need to match skeletons and be able to share animations with their base form without it looking weird? The only reason Chrom's bland *** has Aether is because all FE characters have the same skeleton so it was an easy copypaste job. I'm seeing people suggest stuff like making Banjo+Kazooie an Echo of Duck Hunt or taking Raichu and putting him on top of Pikachu despite their wildly different anatomy, or even worse, trying to use Chrom as an example when they attempt to mishmash various moves and characters into one.
"Make Dixie a Diddy Echo but give her Donkey Kong's Up B, it'll totally look normal lmao I know what I'm talking about"

If Echoes stray too far from the base form, this is what you end up with.
View attachment 166091

Chrom's far from bland, me bucko.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Sakurai can do whatever he wants, and this time around he seems to be trying to give the fans what they want.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of Sakurai doing a surprise 180 and making him a playable character.

 

[Tailisu10]

I really feel like people don't actually know what Echo fighters are, like do people not get that Echo fighters would need to match skeletons and be able to share animations with their base form without it looking weird? The only reason Chrom's bland *** has Aether is because all FE characters have the same skeleton so it was an easy copypaste job. I'm seeing people suggest stuff like making Banjo+Kazooie an Echo of Duck Hunt or taking Raichu and putting him on top of Pikachu despite their wildly different anatomy, or even worse, trying to use Chrom as an example when they attempt to mishmash various moves and characters into one.
"Make Dixie a Diddy Echo but give her Donkey Kong's Up B, it'll totally look normal lmao I know what I'm talking about"

If Echoes stray too far from the base form, this is what you end up with.
View attachment 166091

To be honest, they're keep being vague as to what an echo fighter and the info isn't known publicly. I like it when fake leakers show that they don't know crap about them tho.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Sakurai can do whatever he wants, and this time around he seems to be trying to give the fans what they want.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of Sakurai doing a surprise 180 and making him a playable character.

Every fan except me apparently

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Chrom's far from bland, me bucko.

Compared to some of the FE characters he is...like Robin or the legendary Viridi

 

[Iridium]

Sakurai can do whatever he wants, and this time around he seems to be trying to give the fans what they want.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of Sakurai doing a surprise 180 and making him a playable character.

I mean, if he did, people would definitely consider that the longest-lasting troll Sakurai's ever done. Doesn't have to be, but it would be a first.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Guys, am I missing something about this Ken leak? I just now saw something on deviant art that looks like he's in the same stage with Ivysaur and Pichu?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

OK sure but that just seems like so much effort to go through to accomplish a goal that could be done equally as effectively by just making a reveal trailer.

Heck they even had a Waluigi AT in he E3 demo. That had to require some time and resources. Why would they deliberately let that go to waste? Even for a supposed "surprise reveal"? It just seems so impractical.

If we were talking DLC and he was made playable because of mass fan demand? Fine. Sure. Whatever. But that still leaves his existing AT; we haven't seen a situation like this before so we don't know how it'll go down, so I have my doubts we'll see it happen.

I doubt that AT will be made into playable characters in the same game since they already revealed to the audience that certain characters are ASSIST trophies which was planned. Sakurai already mentioned that when a project plan is finished; very rarely does anything get added mid-development because it screws up the planning Schedule and because it costs even more money.

Now for DLC? There hasn't been any indication or statements from Sakurai in his famitsu column that AT are allowed to be DLC not to mention Smash 4 didn't have any AT making it as DLC characters. Having a character be both playable and AT also doesn't match the pattern that Sakurai does. You notice how Dark Samus and Isabelle are not assist trophies no more even though they are playable. Samus loss her Dark Samus alt when Dark Samus was planned as playable. This means that it takes a new Smash entry for Sakurai to reconsider who will stay as AT or potentially be made playable as that is the only time where AT characters became playable...in the next installment and that Sakurai rejects allowing a playable character to also be in a item (makes sense).

This reasoning of AT as potential DLC is practically the same as Ridley being DLC in Smash 4 even though he was clearly intended to be a function (boss) for that game and regardless of the outcry fans gave Sakurai; Ridley STILL remained as a boss. It would only be until Ultimate when he decided to scrap him as a boss and make him playable. There is also no indication that Ridley is a stage boss in Ultimate which furthers strengthens that Sakurai clearly wants things to be separate of each other. I can infer that he doesn't want things to be meshed together.

Sakurai is very aware of people wanting certain characters but has already stated that he cannot add everyone. What about Ashley? Lyn? Shovel Knight? People want them as playable too. See where I'm getting at. I don't see Sakurai scrapping the resources it took to make Assist Trophies only to make them playable when he can just add new characters .

I will be shocked if the reverse happens.

 

[osby]

Sakurai can do whatever he wants, and this time around he seems to be trying to give the fans what they want.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of Sakurai doing a surprise 180 and making him a playable character.

Waluigi isn't the only Assist Trophy fans would like to see playable though.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

By definition, you, Sir, are quibbling.
But that is okay. I can create as useless a post, and intend to right here!

So is your entire shtick to just try talking around people with nonsense instead of just admitting you said something misinformed? I've noticed that a lot in your posts.

 

[TheKnight]

This.

I mean the fact people even theorizes this is just stretching things. Like really I've never seen people clamoring for someone so much despite being deconfirmed. Not even Shovel Knight fans are this persistent.

Waluigi fans...

Just wait until the next game alright...

I'd rather not stop support for my most wanted character. He's an AT, yes, but just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen. This game is full of firsts for the series. Let people have their fun, sheesh.