Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jigglymaster]

Man, I thought this was the general thread.

I see soo much bloodshed I thought this was the de-confirmed characters thread.

It's a clash between those who like to make theories during speculation and those who like to.... I don't know what they like to talk about for fun while waiting.

 

[Will]

It's something bigger than a Civil War. It's like...there are infinite wars going on. If only there was a word for that...

The Triad Wars.

 

[Exalt4747]

If true, then I guess we can hang in the towel, we know the entire roster now. Bye y'all, see ya December 7th.

...Or still have fun while keeping our expectations reasonable, not getting too hung up over fan theories, awaiting further real confirmation/deconfirmations.

I will say, regardless, this hype cycle has been a roller coaster--the vomit inducing kind.

I'm a little puzzled that people don't want to discuss dlc but also reject...anything else constructive I guess.

 

[LetterO]

So lets say you're right and it is tied to him. So what?
How does that contradict the current theory of
"A franchise that is getting a newcomer wont have a song on the website until said newcomer shows up"

Because we clearly didn't get a Mario song from Daisy

Dude. Just because someone tries to support a theory doesn't mean they think it's fact. That's why people call it a theory and not a legitimate leak.

Many people are treating it as it's confirmed.

 

[Chrono.]

That happened to me in my recent Lost Age playthrough, though it was the other way around. I don't know how much you know about the events of Golden Sun, so I'll spoiler out the names.

The Water Adept in that game was the only one alive to reap the spoils of killing "the boss you need a certain item to defeat". It was the first time I'd ended a battle without everyone still alive throughout the entirety of the two games for that playthrough.

People who've played Lost Age will know exactly who I'm talking about.

It'll only get worse as time goes on.

For the record, nope. I'm playing GS for the first time mostly blind. So idk what happens in The Lost Age either.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dude. Just because someone tries to support a theory doesn't mean they think it's fact. That's why people call it a theory and not a legitimate leak.

It also is kind of a pointless one.

Why is it that surprising that a unique newcomer gets some music soon not long after their regular trailer debut? It wasn't rocket science anyway. There's really nothing else to worry about. It's just a normal pattern at best, though there's obvious issues of blog updates being skipped.

As for Inklings, they never got a regular character trailer like Ridley did, which is odd. It also is fairly inconsistent, since as noted, Chrom proves outright that characters can get music after their reveal related to their franchise. ...Which again, isn't strange.

Is there something I'm even missing with this theory to begin with? Like, other than it being an expected pattern, does it actually have more to it than that?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Chrom would like to say hello.

Didn’t connect to Chrom specifically like the music did with the uniques

So what has everyone's favorite newcomer for this game been so far?

Chrom
Daisy
Dark Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
King K. Rool
Richter
Ridley
Simon

You guys already know mine from my avatar and mains.

Inklings...and newer Pit

Hmmm that's a fun game I see. What newcomners, based on Music Theory, could/will happen?

- Peppy. Interesting pic: Leon (Stupid bird, I am the Great Leon!)
- Ninten, Porky, The Masked Man
- Mona or Crygor
- ....Really, no one
- Shadow, Tails. Unlikely: Amy, or Eggman (Sad day)
- Elma, Incredibly Unlikely KOS-MOS
- Vergeben Certified: Incineroar. Pipe Dreams: Decidueye, Kommo-o, Buzzwole, Golisopod (Its ya Boi!)
- Medusa, Viridi, or Hades
- Ms.Pac-Man. The Greatest Pull: Ghost Witch

Add Kat-Ana and Rex with Pyra/Mythra then you’ve named all the expected newcomers for each remaining series

First Veregeben, Then The Box, Now The Songs...
We are having like 3 Civil Wars Going on at once...

Not enough Civil Wars

 

[Deleted member]

The Triad Wars.

I was thinking War of 1812, but close enough.

 

[PsySmasher]

Elma is incredibly unlikely but kos-mos, a character who isn't even from a xenoblade game somehow is?

I think he was saying that KOS-MOS was incredibly unlikely (based on the structure of the post & Elma has a comma after her name).

 

[Nethermoosen]

Mine is Richter. He's my new secondary

You should jot down my friend code and prepare for my Simon to show Mr. Style how an OG slayer do.

 

[AugustusB]

Elma is incredibly unlikely but kos-mos, a character who isn't even from a xenoblade game somehow is?

Its read as Elma. (there is a period here) Calling KOS-MOS unlikely.
Though she was in XC2..would be interesting if Rex had a blade switch mechanic that had Pyra, Roc and KOS-MOS at his arsenal. (Of course, sepculating)

 

[Exalt4747]

So what has everyone's favorite newcomer for this game been so far?

Chrom
Daisy
Dark Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
King K. Rool
Richter
Ridley
Simon

You guys already know mine from the my avatar and mains.

Tough between Ridley, K. Rool and Richter.

Ridley wins on past entrance.

K. Rool wins on presentation.

Richter is "I did not expect this at all and I def prefer him to Simon.

 

[Luigifan18]

Mine is Richter. He's my new secondary

I'm probably going to play as K. Rool a lot.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Isn't Sakurai a fan of Xenoblade though. I see Elma having a decent chance although I expect Rex & Pyra will likely get in over her. If lucky maybe even both. Elma in base roster but Rex & Pyra as DLC.

 

[LetterO]

Didn’t connect to Chrom specifically like the music did with the uniques

What do you mean? As in how long after Chrom we got the song, or that the song has nothing to do with Chrom?

Former: We got a Splatoon song a week after Inkling, just like Chrom.

Latter: The AC song has nothing to do with Isabelle, Brinstar Depths has nothing to do with Ridley.

 

[Will]

I was thinking War of 1812, but close enough.

Seven Years War is more of an Infinity War than that.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

It also is kind of a pointless one.

Why is it that surprising that a unique newcomer gets some music soon not long after their regular trailer debut? It wasn't rocket science anyway. There's really nothing else to worry about. It's just a normal pattern at best, though there's obvious issues of blog updates being skipped.

As for Inklings, they never got a regular character trailer like Ridley did, which is odd. It also is fairly inconsistent, since as noted, Chrom proves outright that characters can get music after their reveal related to their franchise. ...Which again, isn't strange.

Is there something I'm even missing with this theory to begin with? Like, other than it being an expected pattern, does it actually have more to it than that?

The theory is about how a franchise doesn't get a song update until they get their newcomer and that franchises that already have a song out like mario or kirby are out of the running when it comes to getting newcomers because they already have their songs.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

The music theory doesn't make sense to me because Mario got a new song months after E3, even though Daisy debuted there. And of course, there's Dark Samus.
You know, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I bet Sakurai intentionally does this **** to throw people off. It wouldn't be out of character for him.

 

[CosmicQuark]

So what has everyone's favorite newcomer for this game been so far?

Chrom
Daisy
Dark Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
King K. Rool
Richter
Ridley
Simon

You guys already know mine from the my avatar and Ultimate main.

Unfortunately, given the nature of the roster, this may be the first game where I've never played a game with one of the unique newcomers before. Brawl had Sonic, 4 had Mega Man and Pac-Man. That being said, I wouldn't change it for the world as everyone returning in the Ultimate game is more important. Can't help but be personally disappointed, though. I'd say if I had to choose one, it would be King K Rool because--Rare. Second, would be Simon, not for the character, but for Dracula's Castle. None of the others personally appeal to me, especially the echoes so far.

EDIT:

I'm a little puzzled that people don't want to discuss dlc but also reject...anything else constructive I guess.

I'm not against talking about DLC, as I have before. It's just difficult to speculate not knowing the contents of the full game yet (which I was alluding to in my ribbing).

 

[Jigglymaster]

Because we clearly didn't get a Mario song from Daisy


Many people are treating it as it's confirmed.

.... that doesn't prove anything.
Read my theory quote again

"A franchise that is getting a newcomer wont have a song on the website until said newcomer shows up"

This does not concern echos anymore. Chrom/Daisy/Dark Samus are not apart of the theory anymore as it debunked the echo part of the theory months ago.

Do you have any evidence that suggests the bolded statement above is incorrect as of right now? Has there ever been a newcomer that had their music show up before them?
Inklings: No
Ridley: No
Simon: No
K.Rool: No
Isabelle: No

As of right now, this theory is "alive". Is it 100% confirmed? No, it could be broken. Sakurai could upload another Zelda song if he wanted to. We just don't think he will based on the evidence we've seen so far. Is it that hard to understand?

The music theory doesn't make sense to me because Mario got a new song months after E3, even though Daisy debuted there. And of course, there's Dark Samus.
You know, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I bet Sakurai intentionally does this **** to throw people off. It wouldn't be out of character for him.

I don't understand what part of "Echos aren't apart of the theory" that you people don't understand.

 

[Murlough]

So what has everyone's favorite newcomer for this game been so far?

Chrom
Daisy
Dark Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
King K. Rool
Richter
Ridley
Simon

You guys already know mine from the my avatar and Ultimate main.

I'll pick 3.
Isabelle - She looks great honestly. I was 99% certain she would just be an Echo but they made her the first (and maybe last!) semi-clone newcomer in Ultimate. She's adorable and fits in really well. The fan art of Little Mac punching her tears me up a little though not gonna lie.

Dark Samus - Honorable mention to Ridley but everyone did kinda expect him and knew he'd look sick. Dark Samus was a character I actually somewhat rooted against but she looks great. I love how casually she fires her Chargeshot with one hand as if she is mocking the opponent. Her animations really sell her character for me. Her floating and lacking her original's garbage rolls is also nice. Overall, I'm happy to be wrong here.

Daisy - as a guy who really didn't like Echos at first its funny every character I put here is a clone in some way but ay. I was one of the loonies rooting for her prior to her reveal and I gotta say: it felt SO GOOD to see her in the first reveal of the game despite the nay-sayers. Sucks she isn't unique but that was realistically never gonna happen. I'm hoping she has a "Here comes Daisy!" taunt because that will be my go to. Above all else I'm just happy she got SOMETHING. It drives me mad when a franchise doesn't make use of their own characters. I'm very happy that Sakurai could pick up Nintendo's slack on that. Hopefully next time a certain purple wearing individual can grace us with his appearance. Feels wrong having one without the other.

 

[Chrono.]

So what has everyone's favorite newcomer for this game been so far?

Chrom
Daisy
Dark Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
King K. Rool
Richter
Ridley
Simon

You guys already know mine from my avatar and mains.

Weirdly enough, it's Richter.

But that comes from me liking Rondo of Blood a lot because he actually doesn't look all that fun to play, I'm just happy he's there.

Gameplay-wise, from what I've seen Inkling seems like someone I'll be picking up a lot.

 

[Originality]

So what has everyone's favorite newcomer for this game been so far?

Chrom
Daisy
Dark Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
King K. Rool
Richter
Ridley
Simon

You guys already know mine from my avatar and mains.

Still Inklings, haven't been topped

 

[Exalt4747]

Unfortunately, given the nature of the roster, this may be the first game where I've never played a game with one of the unique newcomers before. Brawl had Sonic, 4 had Mega Man and Pac-Man. That being said, I wouldn't change it for the world as everyone returning in the Ultimate game is more important. Can't help but be personally disappointed, though. I'd say if I had to choose one, it would be King K Rool because--Rare. Second, would be Simon, not for the character, but for Dracula's Castle. None of the others personally appeal to me, especially the echoes so far.

EDIT:



I'm not against talking about DLC, as I have before. It's just difficult to speculate not knowing the contents of the full game yet (which I was alluding to in my ribbing).

If Banjo gets a cinematic trailer, it'd be neat to see K. Rool in it.

 

[SmashChu]

Want to clarify something on the Music Theory. It doesn't apply to echoes. So far, none of the echoes have gotten a song except maybe Chrom. However, all of the standard characters got a song.

• Metroid Music was on the site which launched with Ridley and Inkling (6/12/18)
• The week proceeding E3 was Splatoon's song. This was the first update since launching (6/19/18)
• Castlevania's song was posted the same day as his reveal (8/8/18)
• DK's song was the week proceding K Rool's announcement (8/14/18)
• Animal Crossing was the week proceding Isabelle's announcement (9/18/18)

The song is added for a regular character the soonest they can. So Isabelle was shown off last Thusday and AC's music was added tonight. K Rool was added a week later because Castlevania's was shown off the week prior (as Simon was shown off that week). As an aside, the reason I knew we wouldn't have, say a Kirby or Zelda character was because we knew that the song was skipped a week as a result of the delayed Direct. Pikmin should have been this week. If anything, the moving around proves this is done for new characters but it's not done for echoes.

So, it short, it does indicate what new characters could be added but not so much for echoes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The theory is about how a franchise doesn't get a song update until they get their newcomer and that franchises that already have a song out like mario or kirby are out of the running when it comes to getting newcomers because they already have their songs.

Didn't we get a Fire Emblem song after or before Chrom? If after, then that more or less doesn't throw a wrench into it. If we got FE music before Chrom, then the theory is dead. No, I don't really think unique newcomers would matter in the regard.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

.... that doesn't prove anything.
Read my theory quote again

"A franchise that is getting a newcomer wont have a song on the website until said newcomer shows up"

This does not concern echos anymore. Chrom/Daisy/Dark Samus are not apart of the theory anymore as it debunked the echo part of the theory months ago.

Do you have any evidence that suggests the bolded statement above is incorrect as of right now? Has there ever been a newcomer that had their music show up before them?
Inklings: No
Ridley: No
Simon: No
K.Rool: No
Isabelle: No

As of right now, this theory is "alive". Is it 100% confirmed? No, it could be broken. Sakurai could upload another Zelda song if he wanted to. We just don't think he will based on the evidence we've seen so far. Is it that hard to understand?




I don't understand what part of "Echos aren't apart of the theory" that you people don't understand.

Except you have no proof echoes can't be a part of the theory. Reminder that after Castlevania and Donkey Kong, the next series to get a song was Fire Emblem. Who's to say that wasn't connected to Chrom's reveal?

 

[Noipoi]

So what has everyone's favorite newcomer for this game been so far?

Chrom
Daisy
Dark Samus
Inkling
Isabelle
King K. Rool
Richter
Ridley
Simon

You guys already know mine from my avatar and mains.

woomy
woomy
woomy
WOOMY

 

[Jigglymaster]

Except you have no proof echoes can't be a part of the theory. Reminder that after Castlevania and Donkey Kong, the next series to get a song was Fire Emblem. Who's to say that wasn't connected to Chrom's reveal?

Yes I do have proof. Dark Samus came after the Metroid Music

Has there ever been a echo that had their music show up before them?
Daisy: No
Dark Samus: Yes
Chrom: No

Because Dark Samus is a "yes" that removes echos from the theory. Again I don't understand why this is so difficult for you people to understand =w=

 

[Murlough]

I want to join in the music theory argument but ya'll are making no sense whatsoever.

They aren't including Echos. Stop using Echos in the argument. They have said like 5 times they aren't using Echos. Ya'll have quoted them saying they aren't using Echos and then tell them Echos deconfirm their theory.

WhattheheckamIreadingmyfacehurts

 

[PsySmasher]

It also is kind of a pointless one.

Why is it that surprising that a unique newcomer gets some music soon not long after their regular trailer debut? It wasn't rocket science anyway. There's really nothing else to worry about. It's just a normal pattern at best, though there's obvious issues of blog updates being skipped.

As for Inklings, they never got a regular character trailer like Ridley did, which is odd. It also is fairly inconsistent, since as noted, Chrom proves outright that characters can get music after their reveal related to their franchise. ...Which again, isn't strange.

Is there something I'm even missing with this theory to begin with? Like, other than it being an expected pattern, does it actually have more to it than that?

No. The only thing that the theory is based on is what music is revealed compared to when a newcomer is revealed:

The only two characters that don't have any music reveal relatively close to their corresponding reveal w/ them are Daisy & Dark Samus (who both happen to be echoes).

Based on the fact that Simon & Richter were revealed together, people tie the music reveal to Simon more than Richter.

Chrom is the only echo that did have a relatively close music reveal w/ his announcement, but some see this as a coincidence since none of the newcomers have broken the above trend.

I'm not saying this theory is 100% true, but I can see why people treat Chrom as an anomaly to this theory.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Why do people assume that a Dragon Quest character is going to be in Smash? I look at Leaky's Twitter and the leaker never reference or mention any SE character. The leaker only stated that there will be a reveal in Game Awards but never clearly specifies who will be in the game. Did I miss something or there is something more..?

 

[Nethermoosen]

It also is kind of a pointless one.

Why is it that surprising that a unique newcomer gets some music soon not long after their regular trailer debut? It wasn't rocket science anyway. There's really nothing else to worry about. It's just a normal pattern at best, though there's obvious issues of blog updates being skipped.

As for Inklings, they never got a regular character trailer like Ridley did, which is odd. It also is fairly inconsistent, since as noted, Chrom proves outright that characters can get music after their reveal related to their franchise. ...Which again, isn't strange.

Is there something I'm even missing with this theory to begin with? Like, other than it being an expected pattern, does it actually have more to it than that?

The only thing the theory actually needs is a song to appear on the blog before a reveal of a unique within the same franchise.

If pokemon gets music and then Incineroar gets revealed, the theory dies forever.

The theory assumes Sakurai would rather wait on music that applies to an unrevealed unique newcomer. Why only a unique newcomer? Because they are THE reason Smash has such a huge audience BEFORE the games come out.
He didn’t know how we would receive echoes due to a shaky past with clones. How do I know that? Because no one could possibly know the opinion of the majority before an idea is even announced to have an opinion on(idea being the “echo” brand.

Again, what they are doing is the scientific method. They are just trying to find patterns. The scientific method is notoriously successful because people are allowed to modify anything about the theory to suit facts.

We should never twists facts to suit theories and we should be open to twisting theories to suit facts.

All that said, I don’t know see the merit in it, even if it’s true. We could be down to only Final Fantasy music left and still never see a Final Fantasy character. Same applies for all other franchises. This theory won’t be all that acceptable by total evidence until a little further along and we’ll probably have a good idea of what’s coming before Music Theory makes that much difference.

What has it done for me? I don’t expect Skull Kid anymore.
It also does nothing for franchises without music already in the game.

 

[LetterO]

.... that doesn't prove anything.
Read my theory quote again

"A franchise that is getting a newcomer wont have a song on the website until said newcomer shows up"

This does not concern echos anymore. Chrom/Daisy/Dark Samus are not apart of the theory anymore as it debunked the echo part of the theory months ago.

Chrom contradicted the theory, so the echos got taken out of it? Again, this makes no sense.

 

[MainJPW]

Those embeds were crashing my systems.

Let's take our minds off from all these """"theories"""" and post music you want to see added in Smash
I'll start

No mention of the last Sonic Advance track?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M--KIGGi8c4

Between Neo Green Hill, Leaf Forest and Route 99 (and partially Cyber Track in Generations) I'd love some HD remastered Sonic Advance. Remaster all of that. The Advance soundtracks are fire.

Why not just throw all Mario & Sonic remixes in Smash while they're at it. Sonic gets more remixes there than he ever did in Smash.

 

[Shroob]

God, this place is gonna be hell if the next Direct isn't early October.


I'm scared.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Chrom contradicted the theory, so the echos got taken out of it? Again, this makes no sense.

Okay I'm done talking with you lmao. We keep going in circles at this point.

Echos get taken out of it, it does make sense. End of story.
Wait and see within these next few months and you'll see it prove to be true but you'll still deny it.

You never answered the question to my bolded statement. Instead you keep pussyfooting around it with the same Chrom argument I've answered 5 times now.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Chrom contradicted the theory, so the echos got taken out of it? Again, this makes no sense.

But even if you include echoes for some reason chrom doesn't contradict the theory? the fire emblem song came out AFTER chrom was revealed, same with daisy, and Dark Samus is from the same franchise as ridley so no second song.

 

[SuperMar10Main3]

We all wondered how sakurai pulled cloud out of his butt, so wishful thinking has led me to believe that prince Noctis(FFXV) will be added into smash 5. We all know sakurai is capable of doing it! If not noctis then I am fine with waluigi.

 

[LetterO]

But even if you include echoes for some reason chrom doesn't contradict the theory? the fire emblem song came out AFTER chrom was revealed, same with daisy, and Dark Samus is from the same franchise as ridley so no second song.

I don't get what you're saying.

The AC song came out after Isabelle was revealed, so was K. Rool's.