Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rocket Raccoon]

Thoughts of KOS-MOS getting in? She was in Project x Zone 1 & 2 (a xenoblade character was in Project x Zone 2 and paired up with her). KOS-MOS made an appearance in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 plus she shares the same developer as the Xenoblade games. To me, she is my shock factor character. I also just want to hear her speech patterns and have her yell "DWAGEN TOOTH!!".

Who dat?

 

[N. Onymous]

Since I saw Sans brought up earlier: I get that he's pretty much the face of Undertale by now, but I can't at all see him being in the game (he's too weak, lazy, and apathetic to stand much of a chance in a fighting tournament). If Undertale's getting any representation at all, it's much more likely to be either Papyrus or Undyne, I'd wager.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Since I saw Sans brought up earlier: I get that he's pretty much the face of Undertale at the moment, but I can't at all see him being in the game (he's too weak, lazy, and apathetic to stand much of a chance in a fighting tournament). If Undertale's getting any representation at all, it's much more likely to be either Papyrus or Undyne, I'd wager.

Sans is already in Smash.


Also Undertale is going to get no representation in Smash. How would Japan even respond? Does the East even know about Undertale? Undertale only appeals to such a niche market.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

You aren't fully understanding my smash philosophy. "All-Star" is shorthand for importance to nintendo. I think is an excellent choice, as Wii Fit is a very important part of nintendo's history.

I think this is your main problem. You're basing "Smash's entire concept" off a subjective view you have. You're essentially saying that Bayonetta goes against what you think Smash is about, entirely based on your own point of view.

Sakurai and his team decide what "the concept of Smash" is, and it's subject to change. Clearly with Smash 64 it was just the best of the best. As the games went on and the highest elite were all added, the guidelines became looser, and so did the meaning of Smash. From what I can see, it became a celebration of what Nintendo was and what Nintendo is. It's a celebration of its history and also it's present. Characters like Mega Man represent its third party icons of the past, and Bayonetta represents one of its third party icons of today.

Or maybe I'm overcomplicating it, and Smash is just about being able to play as your favorite Nintendo characters. They added the most popular and iconic ones first, and slowly started going down the ladder for each series, while also adding new fan favorites like Olimar, Villager, and Inkling as those games rose to popularity. This is the reason why the ballot existed - so fans could vote for whoever truly is the most popular character yet to be included. The fans spoke, and that was Bayonetta.

The ballot even existing suggests that the true "concept of Smash" is a fighting game to play as your favorite characters, and Bayonetta was voted as such.

Sure, here on Smashboards people who want Goku get laughed out of town. But we don't see the thousands upon thousands of very passionate 10-year olds who I am positive voted for Gku in droves.
You say Goku is a bad idea because he isn't a video game character. And that is true. But what you aren't understanding is that, to me at least, Goku and Bayonetta are bad choices for the same reason: THEY DON'T FIT THE CONCEPT OF SMASH.

They don't fit your "concept of Smash" for different reasons (one being less popular and one not even being a video game character).

Saying they're equally bad because they both don't fit the concept is like saying a kid who tries to squeeze a rectangular peg in a square hole is just as dumb as a kid who tries to fit a ****ing firetruck into the same square hole.

 

[Zzuxon]

I think we need to just get over the fact that Sakurai thinks differently about Smash Bros. as a series than we we may think the "true vision" is. He's done a wonderful job with the series thus far.

If you don't like Bayonetta, fine. But other people do. Instead of tearing the character down for essentially irrelevant reasons, be constructive and suggest new characters. Advocate for those characters. I was skeptical of Bayonetta when she first came out, but I'm completely fine with her sticking around. I don't play as her, and I'm missing one of my favorites in Snake. But I'm not going to be salty about one character because she's not my favorite.

It's frankly such a waste of energy to be mad about it. Is it really surprising that flame wars start after somebody calls out a character and calls them effectively "trash"?

I'll be honest and say there's a number of characters that I feel might be "trash" inclusion, but I'm not going to say it thinking people will openly accept it.

I've got my wants, everybody has theirs. Some may overlap, some may not. That said let's, please, try to be constructive.

Well said. All I can say is, I really wish I could get over Bayonetta. I've come up with or heard reasonable ideas to reconcile her inclusion with the "spirit" of smash. "She's like an Honorary Nintendo Character!" "The Ballot was a special case, she isn't bringing down the standards for 3rd parties generally!" These arguments make PERFECT sense to me, and yet I've never really been able to feel that its true, you know? I hope one day I'll come to terms with it. Because the reason I'm talking about it is that I really love smash.

With that, I'm not going to talk about bayonetta anymore. I've said my piece, heard some interesting perspectives. But I feel like people are getting worked up about it, and I want Smashboards to be a fun place to talk about a game we all feel really strongly about. Thanks for discussing with me. Next time someone posts, I'm going to talk about something more fun and positive.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Ok but I'm confused on who genuinely wants Sans in Smash? He is slightly above Goku on the chances of getting in.

 

[N. Onymous]

How would Japan even respond? Does the East even know about Undertale? Undertale only appeals to such a niche market.

Undertale is pretty popular in Japan. Hell, the reason it has a Japanese translation at all is due to popular demand. I'm not expecting a character from it at all, I'm just debating.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Ok but I'm confused on who genuinely wants Sans in Smash? He is slightly above Goku on the chances of getting in.

Because Sans is Ness, my guy.

 

[Chron]

Well said. All I can say is, I really wish I could get over Bayonetta. I've come up with or heard reasonable ideas to reconcile her inclusion with the "spirit" of smash. "She's like an Honorary Nintendo Character!" "The Ballot was a special case, she isn't bringing down the standards for 3rd parties generally!" These arguments make PERFECT sense to me, and yet I've never really been able to feel that its true, you know? I hope one day I'll come to terms with it. Because the reason I'm talking about it is that I really love smash.

With that, I'm not going to talk about bayonetta anymore. I've said my piece, heard some interesting perspectives. But I feel like people are getting worked up about it, and I want Smashboards to be a fun place to talk about a game we all feel really strongly about. Thanks for discussing with me. Next time someone posts, I'm going to talk about something more fun and positive.

I know how ya feel...

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I suppose it's because Pushmo-representation might take the "role" from Panel De Pon's reason for being included, that being the somewhat profilic puzzler Nintendo and I.S had made during last years. Though I dunno if I agree with that...

By that logic wouldn't Dr. Mario's presence alone mean that neither of those two could make it in? Dr. Mario is primarily a puzzle game, a rather popular one in fact.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Undertale is pretty popular in Japan. Hell, the reason it has a Japanese translation at all is due to popular demand. I'm not expecting a character from it at all, I'm just debating.

Wait what? I thought it was an Eastern thing only. Well now I know an Undertale anime is possible.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Man, i'd kill for a new Legend of Zelda newcomer. SSB4 being the first one without introducing a LoZ newcomer triggers my autism.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Because Sans is Ness, my guy.

I genuinely hope Sans is a Ness clone.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Stating an opinion as a fact was never a good way to argue an argument.

Welcome to Smashboards.com! Should be a new meme now for **** like this


So since we're talking about characters, here's an idea: How do you all feel about a second Electirc/Legendary with Zeraora?

 

[Opossum]

Clearly we all know Papyrus is the superior choice anyway.

Nyeh heh heh.

 

[Danpal65]

Okay, just read through like 20 pages that were written while I slept. Just want to throw a couple of things into the ring.

I saw some people wondering what that song in the reveal trailer was and thinking it may be the theme for Smash 5, however, it seems like it is a slight rework of the sub space emissary save room music. This in itself could be an interesting allusion to their being a single player campaign in the game, which would be freakin awesome!

Also, with the inclusion of BotW Link in this game I am wondering if, instead of having a large addition of newcomers, that this is instead the game where veterans get moveset reworks. Mario could be updated to some Odyssey stuff, Luigi could get the poltergust worked in and I could definitely see Zelda and Ganondorf getting reworked (it's finally time for Dorf to be de-cloned).

Just my 2-cents anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Zzuxon]

I think Mallo and Lip would both be really good characters, but I would put Mallo first, primarily due to the fact that Pushmo has more games than Panel de Pon.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Clearly we all know Papyrus is the superior choice anyway.

Nyeh heh heh.

I will ****post my way to make sure Sans is a Ness clone.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Undertale music would be pretty great in smash NGL.

Personal favorite

Others
Megalovania

Bonetrousle

The One That even by name is a spoiler I guess

Undertale has some damn fine music to smash to. Not sure I would actually like anyone in smash, (Undyne would probably be fun TBH) but I would at least get the music.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think Mallo and Lip would both be really good characters, but I would put Mallo first, primarily due to the fact that Pushmo has more games than Panel de Pon.

Pretty sure both have at least four entries. Although Panel de Pon (or Puzzle league) is in this weird position where it has different identities, especially outside of Japan where the fairies aren't used as commonly.

 

[Zzuxon]

Undertale music would be pretty great in smash NGL.

Personal favorite

Others
Megalovania

Bonetrousle

The One That even by name is a spoiler I guess

Undertale has some damn fine music to smash to. Not sure I would actually like anyone in smash, (Undyne would probably be fun TBH) but I would at least get the music.

That's what mods are for. Dang, I love modding music into smash.

 

[Mysteltainn]

I skipped over a lot of pages due to being a few years behind, but to me it seems very obvious that Bayonetta has a shoe (or heel) into Smash at this point... She had her 2 games released as ports and is getting yet another later this year or early the next. There's no way they'll exclude her unless some kind of corporate diplomatic disaster hits, but that's pretty unlikely.

Just my 2 cents. It's really nice to see these forums buzzing once again though. It's always a nostalgic feeling for me coming back to these boards when a new Smash is on the way.

 

[N. Onymous]

Pretty sure both have at least four entries. Although Panel de Pon (or Puzzle league) is in this weird position where it has different identities, especially outside of Japan where the fairies aren't used as commonly.

Puyo Puyo was like that too, for the longest time. It wasn't until Puyo Puyo Tetris made it over here (unedited I should add) that it really started to pick up steam.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I'm not too on how well Japan knows Undertale since I have not played the game (thank you Switch version) but the game did get the same announcement that we did in the Japan Nintendo Direct so there is that.

Rocket Raccoon

Spoiler: KOS-MOS

Picture of her from Project x Zone 2 that I just found on Google. Below it will be some information on her.

She is one of if not the main characters of the the XenoSaga series. Her games debuted on the Playstation systems. She has 3 games in her series but her game's story is not complete. Her games are pretty old. Apparantly they had a huge focus on what it meant to be human. Judging by her lines in the Project x Zone 1, I assume they cover pain a-lot, so I guess you could say that her games have a kind-of psychological-horrow story but set in the future. Gameplay-wise her series is a 3D turn-based RPG with battle music that I find addictive. Her games are really hard to find now and can sell for a fortune on Ebay (I saw one in a mall a few years back and I panicked, I wish I bought it then).

Now her series lives on through the Namco x Capcom/ Endless Frontier/ Project x Zone series. KOS-MOS, her arch-nemesis, and her allies have appeared on those games as playable characters and enemies; those games are also turn-based combat games too. Think Super Smash Bros but with Bandai Namco, Sega (no Sonic is not in), Capcom, and Nintendo characters from popular and VERY OLD or japan-exclusive games get a star role in a combined worlds story full of videogame references and funny moments everywhere along with hype due to the exchanged dialogue between the huge cast and the attacks the characters perform) and most recently she made a shocking guest appearance in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as a rare blade that can be acquired.

Edit: I forgot, the games also feature remixes of the source game's OST or a direct rip of it. Lots of fanservice.

 

[Retroend]

Okay, just read through like 20 pages that were written while I slept. Just want to throw a couple of things into the ring.

I saw some people wondering what that song in the reveal trailer was and thinking it may be the theme for Smash 5, however, it seems like it is a slight rework of the sub space emissary save room music. This in itself could be an interesting allusion to their being a single player campaign in the game, which would be freakin awesome!

Also, with the inclusion of BotW Link in this game I am wondering if, instead of having a large addition of newcomers, that this is instead the game where veterans get moveset reworks. Mario could be updated to some Odyssey stuff, Luigi could get the poltergust worked in and I could definitely see Zelda and Ganondorf getting reworked (it's finally time for Dorf to be de-cloned).

Just my 2-cents anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

thats what i said but people were against any reworks of characters. i at least want kirby to be reworked and make him more viable in competitive smash.

 

[Curious Villager]

Puyo Puyo was like that too, for the longest time. It wasn't until Puyo Puyo Tetris made it over here (unedited I should add) that it really started to pick up steam.

Definitely, hopefully they do the same for the fairies of Panel the Pon, especially after the animal crossing one where they finally gave Lip an overseas cameo.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

thats what i said but people were against any reworks of characters. i at least want kirby to be reworked and make him more viable in competitive smash.

People don't want reworks because veterans like Kirby and Mario have been pretty much the same for about a decade.

 

[Danpal65]

thats what i said but people were against any reworks of characters. i at least want kirby to be reworked and make him more viable in competitive smash.

My thinking is that if people are really attached to certain movesets then they go back and play the older Smash games and experience it there. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I just think it is unfair to limit the moveset potential of characters like Link purely because he has had that moveset for the past few games.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I've been toying with a few ideas for the protagonist of Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Rex. I'll simply start by flat out saying there's not much there for Rex to be a clone of Shulk, but rather a character with features of his own. He'll be a great addition if you ask me!

For those of you who haven't played XC2, Rex is what they call a "Driver". The driver is usually a sword-wielder who is the lead in a partnership with a Blade. A Blade is effectively the spirit of the weapon, which can manifest itself in some sort of form, whether it be human or animal form. Rex's main blade is Pyra. Pyra, as the name implies, carries fire elemental power in her attacks, and is effectively tied to the weapon that Rex carries: the Aegis. Because he is the wielder of that blade, Rex is called the Driver of the Aegis in-game.

One major part of the game (like, practically the entire story) is based on the growing relationship, trust, and love between Rex and Pyra. This also shows itself within the gameplay of XC2. Because of this, I don't just advocate for Rex to be in Smash on his own. Actually, I advocate for Rex and Pyra to be some sort of partner character, but not like the Ice Climbers exactly.

In XC2, drivers and blades work together to defeat enemies. The bond between them is displayed by a faint blue line that connects them...it's basically the energy between the characters. The closer they are for the longer period of time, the more powerful it gets. When it's at it's peak, it turns gold, and allows Rex to charge his arts, and therefore use them, more frequently and at a higher level.

Therefore, I advocate for the duo to work in one of a few ways:

1: Put Pyra at the center of the stage similar to Pokemon Trainer with the affinity gauge growing as Rex stays close enough. If he gets knocked back, it gets weaked. The longer he has it, and the more damage he applies to his opponents, the stronger arts (or specials) he can use. In Smash, the duo could be dominant if not countered, or dominated if not careful.

2: Make Rex and Pyra almost like a team in MvC. What I mean by this, is that Pyra (or Rex if switched out) can jump in briefly for a combo attack to continue a working combo or a combo break. This could be tied to a particular special attack for the character.

I'm not entirely done brainstorming about the character, but these are two ideas. There are some uh,...spoilery things I would feel bad talking about that could be used in the moveset, so I don't want to discuss that yet. I'll put it in spoilers.

EDIT: Phew, almost screwed that up. I'll leave this for now because I don't want to spoil anything for anyone. I'd love to hear some ideas!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Once again, the "It's been 4 generations of Smash, we need new movesets for everyone" is a terrible argument. It's about as good as "It's been 4 generations of Smash, we need to get rid of blast zones and turn it into a traditional fighting game."

 

[Scamper52596]

I don’t think Sakurai has ever redesigned a veteran from the ground up, and I don’t expect it to happen here. Sure, a move or two has been added, replaced, or slightly reworked here or there, but I doubt we’ll see a complete overhaul of any character’s moveset. Hasn’t Sakurai even spoken about his opinion on the matter in the past?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

This is my current roster speculation for Super Smash Bros. for Switch.

The Main Roster is the filled-in one. The Roster of Smash 4 + Inkling & Ice Climbers, with 8 Unrevealed Additions.

On the right of the roster are the characters I could realistically see getting the axe this time around.

On the bottom are the characters I could see showing up in the newcomer slots. I think the top row are the most likely, but the bottom row could also show up.

In total,this leaves a roster size of anywhere between 63-68 playable fighters.​

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

This is my current roster speculation for Super Smash Bros. for Switch.

The Main Roster is the filled-in one. The Roster of Smash 4 + Inkling & Ice Climbers, with 8 Unrevealed Additions.

On the right of the roster are the characters I could realistically see getting the axe this time around.

On the bottom are the characters I could see showing up in the newcomer slots. I think the top row are the most likely, but the bottom row could also show up.

In total,this leaves a roster size of anywhere between 63-68 playable fighters.​

Wha- Why YoKai Cat? That series hasn't gone anywhere.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

So since we're talking about characters, here's an idea: How do you all feel about a second Electirc/Legendary with Zeraora?

Zeraora would be the first Mythical, but already covers Electric-type pretty well with its moveset. The best way to do Zeraora is to give it Plasma Fists as a neutral special, and then other non-Electric moves like Knock Off, Drain Punch, and Outrage as its other specials. Its Final Smash would of course be Gigavolt Havoc.

 

[Danpal65]

Once again, the "It's been 4 generations of Smash, we need new movesets for everyone" is a terrible argument. It's about as good as "It's been 4 generations of Smash, we need to get rid of blast zones and turn it into a traditional fighting game."

That seems like a bit of a false equivalency. Reworking a character is very different to completely changing to dynamic and format of the type of fighting game Smash is.

I'm not trying to say that people will be happy that veterans get reworked, but I just think the fact that they are veterans should not mean that they can not get a new moveset, especially with new source material to draw upon. A Link designed for Smash now would be different to the Link made for the N64, or even Melee.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I had the same idea with Pyra being in the background as akin to the Pokemon Trainer. Hey Rocket, if you would like I can link you 2 videos to show off KOS-MOs's super moves in Project x Zone 1 & 2.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

That seems like a bit of a false equivalency. Reworking a character is very different to completely changing to dynamic and format of the type of fighting game Smash is.

I'm not trying to say that people will be happy that veterans get reworked, but I just think the fact that they are veterans should not mean that they can not get a new moveset, especially with new source material to draw upon. A Link designed for Smash now would be different to the Link made for the N64, or even Melee.

A veteran's moveset is just as essential to the character as knocking people into blast zones is essential to Smash.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Anyone have any thoughts on Yokai representation? It's stupid popular in Japan, decently popular in Europe, and popular enough in North America to warrant most of the games getting released there. Like, I feel like Jibanyan could cruise in just because of how insanely popular the series is in Japan, with sales rivaling the Pokemon games. Kind of surprised how little the series is talked about here given how the series had tie ins with Universal Studios before the rest of Nintendo's franchises did. Also, more food for thought, it's the first Nintendo franchise since Kirby to get multiple seasons of a TV series and a movie. In a strange turn of events, it was arguably the most successful new franchise of the Wii U era after Splatoon so I think it would be super strange if it got entirely passed over in Smash. I mean, think about, WFT got in largely because of how crazy well the Wii Fit games did in the Wii era so while couldn't the same principle apply to Yokai?

 

[WiFi]

I want Smash 64 hitstun back. I like my 10+ hit combos.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

It can. You know, for those of of us that do not keep up with that IP it very well may be our shock character.