Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Oasis Dealer]

The inclusion of a relatively obscure, niche third party character like Bayonetta actively debases smash as a concept. Smash is about Nintendo, it's history, it's all stars. And we've had some third party characters too. But huge ones. Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, MegaMan. Characters with major influences on Nintendo, and the video game industry as a whole. So I'm fine with those, or any other character of comparable significance.

Bayonetta has none of that. Her inclusion removes smash's meaning, and turns it into an anything goes cluster-you-know-what. She actively makes the game worse, just like Goku would actively make the game worse if he were included. She is, by far, the worst inclusion in the history of the series.

While it's obvious she got in through the ballot, I think it is important to understand the whole point of it.

The ballot was a way to include a character that under normal circumstances, would most likely not be considered for Smash (I always felt like the ballot was tailored towards 3rd party characters to begin with). No matter the legacy that character had, if it was what people wanted and it was a character they could use with little to no issues (Banjo & Kazooie as an example for now), then they were going to include them.

Bayonetta doesn't bring down the standards of which 3rd party character can join simply because her situation was different from the others.

 

[Schnee117]

So you're saying that Goku ought to be in smash?

No because the ballot was for video game characters only and Goku isn't one you dunce.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Bayonetta is practically a Nintendo character owned by Sega at this point.

She's not going anywhere. If you don't like that. I guess you can just you know get used to it, but considering Nintendo probably just paid Sega and Platinum more money to make Bayo 3. They clearly clearly clearly are invested in the future of the character and consider her one of their all-stars.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I hope we get Splatoon 2 squids too as a costume for Inklings.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's sort of vaguely like with Awakening, how Robin got in over Chrom. He and Robin were equally main characters in the game, but Chrom was on the boxart and was marketed more, but in the end Robin was chosen over Chrom due to him being more unique.

The big important difference is that Chrom was only rejected because Sakurai felt he wouldn't be different enough from Marth and Ike and thus "redundant." Spring Man doesn't have that problem. There is also the matter of when the roster was decided on, seeing as there is a chance it was finalized long before any Breakout Characters could be established in ARMS. I mean, we did get Male Corrin as the default Corrin despite the female one proving in the end to be the more popular one.

Spring Man is definitely not a shoo-in, but his situation is completely the opposite of Chrom's.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

That's simply false. She didn't win the poll, she was picked out of characters who performed well in the poll.

What, do you have access to the same system Sakurai used to determine the win/loss ratio of Little Mac from across the world? Also note that Nintendo hasn't released the ballot results from Sm4sh, at least to my knowledge.

 

[N3ON]

All-Star is a meaningless qualifier at this point in the series, and never held much cache in the first place apart from a nice sounding tagline.

Sheik and Ice Climbers and over half the Melee clones were not All-Stars, and we got them regardless. And that's back when Smash actually branded itself as such.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"SMASH IS ABOUT ALL STARS!"
haha yes hello I would like to join you all my game won't even be released before Smash comes out
"You may stay"
:4Bayonetta: Fans voted and I was among the top 5 most popular character in the US and the most popular character in Europe
"YOU RUINED EVERYTHING GO AWAY YOU *****"

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I still don't understand why some people hate the idea of representation. I'd think people would hate the idea of relevance more, as it's basically based off the date of the last game the character appeared in.

And yes, Sakurai has already stated that series representation is considered when choosing characters. Some people don't realize this and claim it's something fans made up. Funny thing is, it's not even Smash-specific. I see good series balance in other fighting games like UMvC3 and J-Stars Victory Vs.

Here are things I often see people say:

"Series aren't important, we should just focus on who could be unique."
I don't see any reason why both can't be considered. There have been characters added to represent their series, but uniqueness was still an important factor for their inclusion.

"People aren't even looking at the character, just the series."
That makes it sound like people are asking for a Banana Bird because they want Donkey Kong to have another character. If someone's looking for the best choice to represent a series, they are looking for who is popular, unique, and relevant, qualities which are already considered in newcomer selection.

"Newcomer ideas shouldn't be rejected because of their series."
Newcomer ideas are what they are, ideas. Instantly rejecting them is pretty close-minded, but at the end of the day, should the character have priority over newcomers with the same amount of merit, from series with less playable characters?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Loads of smash fans want Goku. I'd bet anyone here $300 that Goku got more votes in the ballot than Bayonetta.

You'd lose $300 then.
I've seen more people criticize those who want Goku than I've seen people actually supporting him.

So you're saying that Goku ought to be in smash?

No, because he's not a video game character. In some parallel universe where Dragonball is a video game series and is just as influential as the manga/anime franchise of our world, I would say yes, he should be in.

But even if he did get as many votes as Bayonetta, he simply wouldn't be included because he doesn't fit the basic rule of being in smash, which is being a video game character.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

So, basically, what Netherrealm Studios were doing with Mortal Kombat X and Injustice 2?

 

[MopedOfJustice]

What, do you have access to the same system Sakurai used to determine the win/loss ratio of Little Mac from across the world? Also note that Nintendo hasn't released the ballot results from Sm4sh, at least to my knowledge.

I can say so with confidence because they never claimed that she actually won, they essentially just said that she was the highest ranking among characters that they wanted to make, which could exclude any number of others.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

What, do you have access to the same system Sakurai used to determine the win/loss ratio of Little Mac from across the world? Also note that Nintendo hasn't released the ballot results from Sm4sh, at least to my knowledge.

Spoiler: Disclaimer

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I remember hearing excuses of why Bayonetta should be in Smash like: "she summons DEMONS!!!! That is certainly not acceptable for a kid-friendly game like Nintendo!" Kek.

Speaking of Bayonetta again, there was an interview with PlatinumGames where they were worried that Nintendo would ask them to tone down their games; instead Nintendo gave them all-access to make the game as weird as they want. You can kind of see this recently with South Park: The Fractured But Whole getting an Switch port.

People's outdated misconceptions of Nintendo as a kid/baby friendly console are slowly changing over time. Some misconceptions are hard to break when gamers bandwagon Sony and Xbox as being the "adults" of the industry while always looking down on Nintendo to play catch-up.

The Switch has been getting a ton of third-party support, way more than the Wii and Wii U due to the perceived audience loss developers may have had porting their games to a Nintendo console; or it could have been that the dev kits were too foreign for Western developers to make use of. There is an old Kotaku article where a supposed developer when off-record and talked about his experience with a Wii U dev kit. He brought up the language barrier along with the abnormally long time-exchange it took for them to ask questions and receive answers from Nintendo Japan reps since it involved translation.

I vaguely recall reading that it took at least a week or more for a simple conversation exchange. What stood out to me, was when the supposed developer asked about online and if Nintendo looked at their competitors to see how they handled online. Nintendo allegedly answered that they did not look at their competitors stuff period and were creating their internet infrastructure from scratch which could explain why to the developer everything was so foreign to them or outdated.

The article I'm referring to is probably 5-6 years old as I read it somewhere between 2013 or 2014. It may take a lot of digging to find, even then it might not be accurate because the developer decided to speak in secrecy within the interview.

Edit: For the all-star topic, I've mainly seen news outlets refer to Smash as that, such as Gamespot or IGN.

 

[Polan]

Nobody is ever considered an "All-Star" on this site.

i'm just waiting for someone to try to argue that sonic/megaman/pacman/ryu/cloud aren't allstars because their preferred character didn't get in.

 

[Schnee117]

I can say so with confidence because they never claimed that she actually won, they essentially just said that she was the highest ranking among characters that they wanted to make, which could exclude any number of others.

No, she placed the highest out of characters that they could actually feasibly make.

 

[A Distant Demon]

When someone is comparing a super popular video game character like Bayonetta, that is a hardcore and casual darling, to Goku, a manga/anime character, you know they aren't arguing in good faith.

I can say so with confidence because they never claimed that she actually won, they essentially just said that she was the highest ranking among characters that they wanted to make, which could exclude any number of others.

That's. . .a pretty big stretch to fit a narrative.

i'm just waiting for someone to try to argue that sonic/megaman/pacman/ryu/cloud aren't allstars because their preferred character didn't get in.

You could just go back to Ryu and Clouds reveal for that. People were actually trying to imply they were small-fry. A minority, but they existed.

 

[Jubileus57]

The inclusion of a relatively obscure, niche third party character like Bayonetta actively debases smash as a concept. Smash is about Nintendo, it's history, it's all stars. And we've had some third party characters too. But huge ones. Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, MegaMan. Characters with major influences on Nintendo, and the video game industry as a whole. So I'm fine with those, or any other character of comparable significance.

Well, Bayonetta was saved single-handedly by Nintendo after being almost killed by the rest of the industry, despite being the protagonist of some of the best representants of the Beat-them-All genre (just gaze at the stellar reviews both her games had). Besides, they go all out on advertising her, going as far as funding ANOTHER, highly anticipated game in the franchise. Heck, they even annoucend Bayonetta 3 as THE big Switch reveal at the Video Games Awards. She has more influence on Nintendo than Cloud or Ryu for example wil lever have. And that doesn't even cover the ballot winner part.

She might be third party, but Nintendo treats her like one of their own nonetheless.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

"SMASH IS ABOUT ALL STARS!"
haha yes hello I would like to join you all my game won't even be released before Smash comes out

"You may stay"

: Yo, that's not how my voice sounds like.
: Heheeh.

"Series aren't important, we should just focus on who could be unique."
I don't see any reason why both can't be considered. There have been characters added to represent their series, but uniqueness was still an important factor for their inclusion.

I think this is the mainline fashion of choosing characters - though there's more emphasis on uniqueness depending on how prolific the series is and how much characters there are to choose from ().

 

[Bowserlick]

There are certain archetypes and play-styles that are included in Smash games.

Here are some predictions:

Super Heavy Weight: King K. Rool
Speed: Toad
Projectile Focused: Decidueye
Zoner: Mallo from Pushmo
Long-range Brawler: Springman
All-Arounder: Dixie Kong
Partner Character: Rex & Pyra
Retro: Mach Rider
WTF Character: Andross w/ a body

 

[CodeBlue_]

"In the beginning, Smash players were in harmony. From the reptilian loving supporters of King K. Rool, to the fungal admiring supporters of Toad, to the obscure enthusiasts that support Excite Bike and Takamaru, all Smash Bros. fans paid no attention characters that were adored by others and did not even dare to consider malicious feelings towards them.

However, one day, some members of the community, stricken by the fear of losing the precious character they loved to the harsh storm of deconfirmation decided to assert a certain evil. This evil was given a name, designed to glorify their supported character and discredit those they deemed unworthy. The ego of man had created the forbidden word:

All-Star

The land of Smashboardsia was never the same. The vortex of toxicity and vitriol previously not even accessible by the most cognizant smash players had now become front and center. And now, two years after the end of the speculation wars of Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, the word has reared its ugly head and returns to divide and demean. Who will be labelled by the forbidden word next?"

...

This term being used around here never really made sense to me. Yes, a Smash Bros. newcomer has to be a character with enough impact with an audience (whether old or new fans of Nintendo or another third party company) and being an "all-star" might help with that. But this term started so many flame wars and pointless circular arguments that it feels like a gigantic red flag whenever I see it. Smash 4 speculation had this term used rampantly, for characters like K. Rool, Ridley, Toad and, on the other side of the spectrum, against characters like Corrin, Rosalina, and Daisy. This term seems like the easiest way to justify "hating" a character's inclusion and contributes to that vitriol this boards has during speculation days. I would rather just focus on the chances a character has based on their popularity, creativity and plausibility (who Sakurai wants to add and can add).

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

So, basically, what Netherrealm Studios were doing with Mortal Kombat X and Injustice 2?

Like what Bandai Namco did with Pac Man? They helped make SSB4 so they got Pac Man in.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

i'm just waiting for someone to try to argue that sonic/megaman/pacman/ryu/cloud aren't allstars because their preferred character didn't get in.

Cloud isn't an All-Star because he's just a generic anime swordsman that only nerds recognize!

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

My apologies for double posting such a lengthy character prediction. :D

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Zoner: Mallo from Pushmo

How the actual **** would Pushmo be a "zoner"?

 

[Bowserlick]

How the actual **** would Pushmo be a "zoner"?

I was thinking setting up blocks, toppiling blocks, limiting zones with blocks, pushing blocks and characters into zones.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

So, I've been laying in bed, and thinking about who I think legitimately think we could see as newcomers. I've tried to set aside bias, and be as logical as I can. I've thought of "the rules" and criteria that are seemingly applied to newcomers.

Disclaimer: I am not saying ALL or ANY of these characters will make it in. I am just saying I would not be surprised if they did.

Normally the amount of newcomers range between 12-22 (15+7 DLC). Brawl had the most newcomers (pre-DLC) with 18 newcomers. That being said, the newcomer count normally always goes up. I've chose 17 potential newcomers and 7 DLC characters I could see coming.

Before I begin, however, I have to address cuts. There are always 5-6 cuts (Technically, Lucas was brought back so there were truly only 5 cuts.) Since this pattern seems pretty persistent, I will be applying here. Here is a list potential characters I could see getting cut.

The characters I could see being cut are: Cloud, Ryu, Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Lucina, Dark Pit, Dr. Mario*, Corrin, Greninja, Mii Fighters.
(From most likely to least likely, but still possible) Between 5-6 of the following are probably on the chopping block. I put an * next to Dr. Mario's name because I believe Mario's moveset will see modifications to align more with his Odyssey presence, and that keeping Dr. Mario will retain his original playstyle for people who prefer it.

Now, here is the list of newcomers I see having strong chances: (In no particular order.)

1. Inkling. (confirmed) (Boy/Girl variants)

2. Spring Man = Ribbon Girl. (Spring Man with Ribbon Girl alts. They are the poster children for ARMS. A new IP that debuted on Switch. They play similarly, and given a few "liberties" here and there, they could be alts of one another.) Think how Robin can not learn Nosferatu in game, but knows it in Smash.

3. A second ARMS character. Hear me out. I know ARMS is not as big as Splatoon is, HOWEVER, it offers a lot of diversity in its characters and arms. I feel the most likely candidates would be Min Min, Twintelle, or Ninjara. And yes, the character would be a semi-clone. SEMI-clone.

4. Takamaru or Balloon Fighter. We always get a retro rep, and I feel these two have the best shot of making the roster. In the case of Takamaru, he's been in almost ever Smash game since Melee. His only hold back has been not being recognized in the West. However, he made it in WiiU/3DS as an assist trophy, and I think he could get the "Little Mac treatment". As for Balloon Fighter, I just feel he is the next possible choice if Takamaru doesn't get in. He was popular back in his day, had his own stage in 3DS, and would be an interesting addition since he'd probably fight with balloons.

5. NOT A NEWCOMER, but a returning vet that would take up a roster spot. Ice Climbers. They are loved. They were missed. Sakurai wanted them in. Now, there's nothing holding them back.

6. Isabelle. She's become the second face of the ever growing franchise of Animal Crossing. Sorry, Tom Nook. I see her as most people would. A clumsy fighting character that would use other aspects of Animal Crossing that the Villager doesn't. She could be unique, but if she were to fall under the semi-clone category, I believe she'd hardly be one. Think Lucas or Luigi.

7. Hades or Medusa. "We need more villains!" Well, here you go. Personally, I prefer Hades over Medusa since he is the true antagonist of the franchise, but Medusa has been in more games. I think Hades has better moveset potential, but Medusa would represent a villainous rep AND female rep. With Kid Icarus being reborn by Sakurai, and a hopeful future due to the games success, I could see one of them making the cut. I'd be fine with either, I just prefer Hades.

8. Rex & Pyra. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was pushed extremely hard by Nintendo. From what I can gather it was a success, and I could definitely see the two fighting as a pair. Possibly have Mythra an alt skin for Pyra. There is unique moveset potential.

9. Dixie Kong or Cranky Kong. Both would be wonderful unique additions to the Smash and DK franchise. I just can't decide which.

10. Paper Mario. It's the next logical choose for a Mario rep. I'm sorry to all the Toad, Waluigi, and Daisy supporters out there. Paper Mario would by no means be a clone. There are tons of things to pull from to create a moveset for him. I feel Odyssey will get it's representation in a slightly revamped Mario moveset. "Three Marios? That's ridiculous!" Yeah, but they'd be Mario in name alone. While one would be a semi-clone if left in his own slot (Dr. Mario), Paper Mario would be completely unique from both. We had 3 Foxes technically in Brawl, and 3 Marths in WiiU/3DS, they just had different names.

11. Impa. It's time Zelda got a newcomer, and one off characters like Skull Kid, Ghirahim, and Midna have missed their flight. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Midna or Urbosa, but I just don't see it happening. Hyrule Warriors has had 3 releases. 3. That's incredible. Impa has been a reoccuring character in Zelda for years, albeit in different forms, but I could see Hyrule Warriors Impa making the cut.

12. Mimikyu, Decidueye, or Incineroar. Mimikyu was heavily marketed in Sun and Moon. It's the 2nd most popular Pokemon from Alola. Unique typing. Incredible moveset potential. Decidueye could complete the fan perpetuated "Starter Type Trio Triangle". Unique Moveset potential, and could somewhat be a "Pokken" rep. Also, Decidueye was the most popular starter final for Sun and Moon. Incineroar could bring a wrestling gimmick to Smash, and we've all seen the leaked images. Ash is set to have an Incineroar at some point, and we all know in our heart of hearts the anime has some bearing on who makes the cut. Same could be said for Mimikyu in regards to anime presence.

13. Fire Emblem Switch rep. We all know it's coming.

14. Labo Bot. We get a WTF character added into every Smash. This one will be no different, and I believe the Labo Bot would be a perfect fit. Using Nintendo Labo aspects in battle.

15. Wonder Red.

16. Bandana Waddle Dee. I was iffy about this one, but after some research, he is the most deserved potential newcomer for Kirby.

17. Hero, Monster Hunter, or Rabbid. A 3rd Party hype character. Hero is from Dragon Quest, an extremely popular game in Japan. Monster Hunter, is from well...Monster Hunter, an extremely popular game in Japan. As for the Rabbids, the are the least likely of the 3, but after the frankly surprising success of Mario + Rabbids, I wouldn't be surprised if they made it in. I'd much much MUCH rather have Hero or Monster Hunter though.

I'm not even going to being contemplating DLC until the game comes out. The only one I have a good feeling about is a Gen VIII Pokemon rep. Cloud (if cut), Ryu (if cut), and Wolf (due to fan demand.)

So, what do you guys think. I'm sorry my descriptions are kind of messy, and that I didn't put some for others. I'm drifting in and out of sleep. XD

You already posted this.

 

[N. Onymous]

Oh god please no Pushmo. Panel de Pon, please. Please.

Like what Bandai Namco did with Pac Man? They helped make SSB4 so they got Pac Man in.

Odds are fairly good Pac-Man would have gotten in anyway. Remember, Shigeru Miyamoto asked if Sakurai could put him in the game as early as Brawl.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I was thinking setting up blocks, toppiling blocks, limiting zones with blocks, pushing blocks and characters into zones.

That seems more like stage control imo

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

You already posted this.

I know, but it took a long time to write, and as soon as I posted it, two other pages had been made.

Just want it to be seen. No harm in that.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I know, but it took a long time to write, and as soon as I posted it, two other pages had been made.

Just want it to be seen. No harm in that.

Still not a feasible excuse

 

[Zzuxon]

I'm not exactly sure if the Ice Climbers (characters from a one-off NES game with terrible controls), Roy (a character whose game hadn't even released at the time that Melee came out), or Pichu are considered all-stars, and that's just from the second game in the series.

Bayonetta's situation isn't one that could be easily replicated (she was added as the winner of a worldwide popularity poll; at best, there would only be one of those per console generation, and with the data they got from the Smash Ballot, they might not need to do another one), and as far as Nintendo's concerned, she's had a big influence. Nintendo outright saved her franchise from cancellation, they clearly have faith in Platinum Games (between letting them work on one of Nintendo's own franchises, funding games like the Wonderful 101, etc.), and they've advertised her alongside their characters.

It's extreme, at the very least, to say that a character's inclusion "removes the series' meaning" and "actively makes the game worse".

While it's obvious she got in through the ballot, I think it is important to understand the whole point of it.

The ballot was a way to include a character that under normal circumstances, would most likely not be considered for Smash (I always felt like the ballot was tailored towards 3rd party characters to begin with). No matter the legacy that character had, if it was what people wanted and it was a character they could use with little to no issues (Banjo & Kazooie as an example for now), then they were going to include them.

Bayonetta doesn't bring down the standards of which 3rd party character can join simply because her situation was different from the others.

I must commend you two, for having the most well-reasoned responses to my point thus far. I will say 2 things:
1. Ice Climbers, Pichu, and Roy are all bad inclusions. However, they are at least badly chosen Nintendo characters. A 3rd party character is a much bigger deal.
2. As for your belief that Bayonetta was a special situation that doesn't reflect on smash as a whole, I can only say I hope you are right. Alternatively, I hope nintendo thinks of Bayonetta more as an "Honorary Nintendo Character," not a third party. But I think that's wishful thinking. I wish I could believe that. But I don't.

Ballot-winner though. That's was a fair game to everybody, and she rose above them all. Thus she deserves her "oddly" inclusion on the cast - and was also her only way to be there. On that end, she's become pretty amicably bonded with Nintendo as of late since. So I think she flows in pretty well, much like .


On that end, since Wii Fit Trainer's inclusion, I had dropped the mentality on what characters are a must-to-add based on their "All Star" status in the respective series they'd come from, and witnessed over time how much their potential for intuitive, innovative movesets have more played on them being included instead.

Hence why I don't exactly bank on Toad, Dixie, Bandanna Dee, or other "missing stars" to exactly pop in this series by their beloved status alone - There's gotta be something to make them compelling to add, and so far, we have to yet see that bear much fruition.

A lot characters from newest IPs seem a lot what Sakurai might add in instead due how more vivid their playstyles have been due more unique mechanics that show various innovations Nintendo's created lately (Splatoon, ARMS and Nintendo Labo especially). There might be other characters possibly thrown due popularity quota (Pokemon, Fire Emblem), but even they'll possibly have their movesets ensured not being cookie-cutter at least - we'll instead see something that makes them appealing due the ways they play.
So yeah, to "All Star", I'll just say .


At least Captain Toad keeps marching on with his own tales beyond Smash compared to some characters that are heavily life-sustained by it in means of relevance (), which is pretty enough to me.



Though arguably, Wii Fit Trainer seems not too popular to be demanded heavily back as I've seen so far.

You aren't fully understanding my smash philosophy. "All-Star" is shorthand for importance to nintendo. I think is an excellent choice, as Wii Fit is a very important part of nintendo's history.

"SMASH IS ABOUT ALL STARS!"
haha yes hello I would like to join you all my game won't even be released before Smash comes out
"You may stay"
:4Bayonetta: Fans voted and I was among the top 5 most popular character in the US and the most popular character in Europe
"YOU RUINED EVERYTHING GO AWAY YOU *****"

Putting words into my mouth, nice. Roy is also a bad inclusion.

You'd lose $300 then.
I've seen more people criticize those who want Goku than I've seen people actually supporting him.


No, because he's not a video game character. In some parallel universe where Dragonball is a video game series and is just as influential as the manga/anime franchise of our world, I would say yes, he should be in.

But even if he did get as many votes as Bayonetta, he simply wouldn't be included because he doesn't fit the basic rule of being in smash, which is being a video game character.

Sure, here on Smashboards people who want Goku get laughed out of town. But we don't see the thousands upon thousands of very passionate 10-year olds who I am positive voted for Gku in droves.
You say Goku is a bad idea because he isn't a video game character. And that is true. But what you aren't understanding is that, to me at least, Goku and Bayonetta are bad choices for the same reason: THEY DON'T FIT THE CONCEPT OF SMASH.

When someone is comparing a super popular video game character like Bayonetta, that is a hardcore and casual darling, to Goku, a manga/anime character, you know they aren't arguing in good faith.

I don't appreciate this assertion. I don't ask for you to agree with me, but I at least ask you to respect me enough to not doubt the earnestness of my view. I compare Bayonetta and Goku, though Goku is a much more extreme case, because in my view they are poor choices for the same reason: They don't fit the concept of smash.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh god please no Pushmo. Panel de Pon, please. Please.

Why not both? Smash could do with some puzzle game characters imo. We are now five games in all we have is still just Dr. Mario, (And he's a last minute clone at that)

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Still not a feasible excuse

Why are you so bothered by it?

 

[AadmM]

I feel like Balloon Fighter has a decent shot this time if only as an Iwata tribute of sorts.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Why are you so bothered by it?

Uhhhhhh

Maybe because it breaks the rules? Maybe because it comes off as selfish? Maybe because it comes off as seeking attention?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Why are you so bothered by it?

You didn't even bother to shorten it or rewrite it. It takes up so much room.

 

[N. Onymous]

Why not both? Smash could do with more puzzle game characters imo. We are now five games in all we have is still just Dr. Mario, (And he's a last minute clone at that)

Panel de Pon and Pushmo are both by Intelligent Systems (the former with some help from Nintendo R&D1 I believe). If Mallo gets in, Lip's chances nosedive.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Wait who's Mallo?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Bayonetta and Goku are not really comparable, and this is coming from someone who was heavily against Bayonetta as a Smash character.