Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Danpal65]

A veteran's moveset is just as essential to the character as knocking people into blast zones is essential to Smash.

I agree that a character's movies is essential to representing that character and that blast zones are essential to Smash, but, there is still a distinction between representing a character and what constitutes Smash. You can tweak a character's moveset, or even introduce a new character and have the moveset not be quite right, but the rules of what makes Smash Smash would still be the same, and thus it would be a Smash game.

I'm not trying to start an argument with you or anything, heck I am not even certain that we'll see veterans be reworked, I am just saying that I would like that personally and that I think this is a good opportunity to do so.

 

[Mansta]

A veteran's moveset is just as essential to the character as knocking people into blast zones is essential to Smash.

Is it really? Blast zones are how the game series functions, if they gave Mario a new moveset using moves he's learned over the course of all the games since the n64 he would still be Mario.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Anyone have any thoughts on Yokai representation? It's stupid popular in Japan, decently popular in Europe, and popular enough in North America to warrant most of the games getting released there. Like, I feel like Jibanyan could cruise in just because of how insanely popular the series is in Japan, with sales rivaling the Pokemon games. Kind of surprised how little the series is talked about here given how the series had tie ins with Universal Studios before the rest of Nintendo's franchises did. Also, more food for thought, it's the first Nintendo franchise since Kirby to get multiple seasons of a TV series and a movie. In a strange turn of events, it was arguably the most successful new franchise of the Wii U era after Splatoon so I think it would be super strange if it got entirely passed over in Smash. I mean, think about, WFT got in largely because of how crazy well the Wii Fit games did in the Wii era so while couldn't the same principle apply to Yokai?

A lot of the problem is that the series fell hard. It went from a pokemon competitor in Japan to a dramatic sales decrease. Seemed/seems like Yokai 2 was lightning in a bottle. And apparently western sales weren't great either, but I dont actually rememeber anything beyond anecdotal for that one..

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I agree that a character's movies is essential to representing that character, but, there is still a distinction between representing a character and what constitutes Smash. You can tweak a character's moveset, or even introduce a new character and have the moveset not be quite right, but the rules of what makes Smash Smash would still be the same, and thus it would be a Smash game.

I'm not trying to start an argument with you or anything, heck I am not even certain that we'll see veterans be reworked, I am just saying that I would like that personally and that I think this is a good opportunity to do so.

Sakurai would not rework a character so they can be more viable. Sakurai rarely thinks of the competitive community.

 

[Zzuxon]

Hey so earlier someone was talking about Subspace Emmissary, so I'll throw my hat in the ring.
I didn't like subspace emissary. It's story was not good, and it didn't take advantage of the possibilities of having all those characters interact with each other. I also suspect it diverted a lot of development resources that could have been used on characters and stages.

But the idea of a story mode in smash is a good one, so here's how I would go about it.

I would combine the story mode and event matches. The characters would interact before and after fights with special rules (Depending on the Narrative), in a Fire Emblem dialogue-esque manner. Huge original stages need not be created for this, all the events in the story would take place in the stages already in the game. I think my system would both take a minimal amount of development time, and allow for more exciting, meaningful interactions between the characters.

What do y'all think?

 

[Danpal65]

Sakurai would not rework a character so they can be more viable. Sakurai rarely thinks of the competitive community.

You are right there, Sakurai does not really cater towards competitive, but, I can see movesets being altered to better represent the character (like Mario being given FLUDD).

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Also people discussing YoKai Watch. YoKai Watch is a dead franchise, right? There was a big blowup and then it went away just as fast as it came. I don't see Janemba-cat being in Smash.

 

[Fatmanonice]

A lot of the problem is that the series fell hard. It went from a pokemon competitor in Japan to a dramatic sales decrease. Seemed/seems like Yokai 2 was lightning in a bottle. And apparently western sales weren't great either, but I dont actually rememeber anything beyond anecdotal for that one..

Even if it's not as popular as it was now, still doesn't take away from all that I said earlier. What other Nintendo series in recent history has warranted a TV series, a massive toy line, multiple mangas, a movie, and even amusement park rides? Pokemon and Mario are the only other Nintendo franchises that have been able to pull all of these off. Sure, it may not have the star power it once had but what all it was able to accomplish at the height of its popularity was pretty damn impressive.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

If this is a new game, then I really hope we get a Mario Odyssey-themed stage.

Whatever it's like, I hope for a good amount of tracks from the game because the soundtrack is freaking amazing.

Spoiler

I haven't even finished the game yet. But I've loved pretty much every single song I've heard from it so far.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

The story stuff can work but I'm on the fence how they can have fire emblem-esque dialogue when the most we hear out of them is grunts and what if no text-boxes are allowed?

Edit: I was under lthe assumption that Yo-kai Watch was huge in Japan, seeing as I read another Kotaku article years ago that showed pictures of stores filled with Yokai merchandise ranging from food, plushies, and band-aids. If it has fallen off then wow. I thought the series was popular in the states due to how firm Pokemon has grabbed us. Then there may be the Japanese mythology that may turn off some Westerners.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Since Smash games tend to mostly showcase the generation before it, I really hope Nintendo Land gets a stage. Such an underrated game. I think it would have been a lot better received if it hadn't been a launch title because people were plenty miffed that the Wii U's was among the worst launch line ups in Nintendo's history.

 

[Zzuxon]

The story stuff can work but I'm on the fence how they can have fire emblem-esque dialogue when the most we hear out of them is grunts and what if no text-boxes are allowed?

Well it would use text boxes, like Fire Emblem. The Dialogue wouldn't need to be fully voice acted, like Fire Emblem.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Even if it's not as popular as it was now, still doesn't take away from all that I said earlier. What other Nintendo series in recent history has warranted a TV series, a massive toy line, multiple mangas, a movie, and even amusement park rides? Pokemon and Mario are the only other Nintendo franchises that have been able to pull all of these off. Sure, it may not have the star power it once had but what all it was able to accomplish at the height of its popularity was pretty damn impressive.

Maybe if it maintained the popularity it peaked at today then I'd say it deserves a slot.

 

[blackghost]

Bayonetta was a mistake who should have never have been added in my opinion. I can't stand her and her obnoxious fanbase, but I know she's coming back anyways since Nintendo feels compelled to moneyhat for her games for whatever reason. She's not a Nintendo character though and never will be, dunno why that asinine meme caught on tbh.

She is very much a nintendo character in very much the same manner pokmon is a 2nd party dev of nintendo. Nintendo has had a lot of changes at th etop of the company and they recognize the need for her to be a Nintendo product even if oyu do not. she is staying. smash from the gorund up is not made for us it is made for a causual audience and we adapt it.
being a nintendo character hasnt been a requirement since brawl (snake). Only character requirements are video game character and whether nintendo wants you in.
i will never understand how if you aren't in those categories people will argue you "don't fit in smash". Its a crossover for goodness sake. grow up. If bayo wasn't an elite character none of these complaints would be here.

as for potential inclusions i'd lean toward a metroid character (prime 4), arms (spring girl or twintelle is who i want but we'd get the cover boy more than likely), king k. ( i dont want him he'll be bad like all heavies are), and maybe the genie girl.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Hey so earlier someone was talking about Subspace Emmissary, so I'll throw my hat in the ring.
I didn't like subspace emissary. It's story was not good, and it didn't take advantage of the possibilities of having all those characters interact with each other. I also suspect it diverted a lot of development resources that could have been used on characters and stages.

But the idea of a story mode in smash is a good one, so here's how I would go about it.

I would combine the story mode and event matches. The characters would interact before and after fights with special rules (Depending on the Narrative), in a Fire Emblem dialogue-esque manner. Huge original stages need not be created for this, all the events in the story would take place in the stages already in the game. I think my system would both take a minimal amount of development time, and allow for more exciting, meaningful interactions between the characters.

What do y'all think?

While I did like SSE and it's story, the storytelling was awkward and unclear, which sometimes worked in it's favor, but also often didn't. I didn't fully understand the storyline until sometime after finishing the mode. Further complicating things is that several of the characters involved don't speak much or are pretty much silent-protagonists in their own games, so having full voice acting for that range of Nintendo characters altogether would be.....kind of odd, and I'm sure wouldn't sit well with many people.

As much as I loved the CGI cutscenes, dialogue or not, I wouldn't be against FE-styled conversations. Those would work out pretty well.

On the other hand,. I did really enjoy the platforming and adventuring aspects with the large stages, so I would personally like to see those return as well. My only problem with them in Brawl was that they were so bland and generic looking most of the time. Put some more Nintendo creativity into the aesthetics, and you're pretty much golden.

 

[Hokori]

If this is a new game, then I really hope we get a Mario Odyssey-themed stage.

Whatever it's like, I hope for a good amount of tracks from the game because the soundtrack is freaking amazing.

Spoiler

I haven't even finished the game yet. But I've loved pretty much every single song I've heard from it so far.

Co-signed. I'm confident it will happen. It will also be one of the stages where I won't have to toy around with the frequency settings.

 

[Bowserlick]

I've been toying with a few ideas for the protagonist of Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Rex. I'll simply start by flat out saying there's not much there for Rex to be a clone of Shulk, but rather a character with features of his own. He'll be a great addition if you ask me!

...

Therefore, I either advocate for the duo to work in one of a few ways:

1: Put Pyra at the center of the stage similar to Pokemon Trainer with the affinity gauge growing as Rex stays close enough. If he gets knocked back, it gets weaked. The longer he has it, and the more damage he applies to his opponents, the stronger arts (or specials) he can use. In Smash, the duo could be dominant if not countered, or dominated if not careful.

2: Make Rex and Pyra almost like a team in MvC. What I mean by this, is that Pyra (or Rex if switched out) can jump in briefly for a combo attack to continue a working combo or a combo break. This could be tied to a particular special attack for the character.

The idea of Pyra as a fixed totem is an idea I have not heard before. Interesting.

I was thinking of putting Pyra on the Z-Axis and allowing her to attack toward the screen in some instances. Thus, she can hit dodging and rolling characters. She follows Rex, but is slower allowing for Rex to space her on the battlefield. She has one jump and jumps when Rex jumps, but cannot jump off a stage. Rex's down throw or a special can throw the opponent over for Pyra for a combo attack.

 

[Zzuxon]

I'm really hoping for a Mario Odyssey stage, but...

We didn't get a 3d World Stage in Smash Wii U. So I have some doubts.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Co-signed. I'm confident it will happen. It will also be one of the stages where I won't have to toy around with the frequency settings.

Same. There's too many good songs in Odyssey. The most I'd do is make sure none of the chances for any of the songs are too low.

I'm really hoping for a Mario Odyssey stage, but...

We didn't get a 3d World Stage in Smash Wii U. So I have some doubts.

True. We're not sure how long this game's been in development, so maybe it was a little early.

At the same time, I guess I'm kinda more hopeful because there's at least one hint of evidence that more recent Nintendo content will be part of the game; Link's BotW design.

It's still really early though so I'm not calling anything just yet.

 

[AadmM]

What was there in 3D World that could've been good stage material though?

Not having anything Odyssey-related to that effect would be such a waste. So much potential across the board there.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Odyssey stage will be a tour stage where you fight on the Odyssey and it goes through some of the kingdoms.

Spoiler

New Donk, Mushroom, Ice, and the Moon.

Ice will have ice physics and low gravity on the Moon

 

[A Distant Demon]

Since Smash games tend to mostly showcase the generation before it, I really hope Nintendo Land gets a stage. Such an underrated game. I think it would have been a lot better received if it hadn't been a launch title because people were plenty miffed that the Wii U's was among the worst launch line ups in Nintendo's history.

This has been one of my most wanted stages since before Smash For released. Nintendoland was surprisingly fun, and I would probably like the look of the stage. Not sure if it would be a travelling stage through thte various games, or just the central hub, but I wouldnt mind either

Metroid Blast deserves its own spinoff

 

[Mansta]

Honestly I didn't even consider 3D world to be Mario series defining like 64, Sunshine, Galaxy and Odyssey.
The 3D world games were more of an evolution of the New Super Mario Bros games than anything, and they seemed very "generic" in a sense.

 

[blackghost]

What was there in 3D World that could've been good stage material though?

Not having anything Odyssey-related to that effect would be such a waste. So much potential across the board there.

the cap will be an item more than likely. you'd pick it up and throw it at another item and move around as it.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I hope Mario's Final Smash is where you throw Cappy onto an opponent and then you make whoever you throw it on walk off of the stage, and then Cappy fast travels to where Mario was before he threw it.

 

[Mogu]

I hope Mario's Final Smash is where you throw Cappy onto an opponent and then you make whoever you throw it on walk off of the stage, and then Cappy fast travels to where Mario was before he threw it.

I can see a lot of people calling that lazy or unimaginative but I'd find that hilarious.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Same. There's too many good songs in Odyssey. The most I'd do is make sure none of the chances for any of the songs are too low.



True. We're not sure how long this game's been in development, so maybe it was a little early.

At the same time, I guess I'm kinda more hopeful because there's at least one hint of evidence that more recent Nintendo content will be part of the game; Link's BotW design.

It's still really early though so I'm not calling anything just yet.

SSB4 started in development in 2012 and pretty much just showcased the latest games in their respective franchises at the time. The only exception was Woolly World because it was supposed to release earlier but hit numerous snags in its development. Things like Game and Wario, Sonic Lost World, and Pokemon X and Y were already decently deep in development when SSB4 started. This said, SSB5 will likely mostly feature Wii U, 3DS, and first year Switch games as its stages.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I hope Mario's Final Smash is where you throw Cappy onto an opponent and then you make whoever you throw it on walk off of the stage, and then Cappy fast travels to where Mario was before he threw it.

That like... even beats Mega Man's final smash. :v

 

[Scamper52596]

I'm really hoping for a Mario Odyssey stage, but...

We didn't get a 3d World Stage in Smash Wii U. So I have some doubts.

No Mario Odyssey stage for this iteration of Smash would be a big missed opportunity. Smash for Wii U had some current gen stages such as Windy Hill, and even had a stage based on Yoshi’s Woolly World that wasn’t even out yet. I think a Mario Odyssey stage is likely to happen. We’ll probably be getting a Breath of the Wild stage too.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Bowser's Kingdom is the true Super Mario Odyssey stage I want

 

[N3ON]

Odyssey will get a stage, obviously, and as it should (my hope being New Donk), and while Bowser's Castle is waaay overdue, I think we're still in the window where Bowser World is possible.

And god I hope so. Look how neon! Look how shinyyyyyy! AAAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The stages this time around should be really interesting...while we've had new titles for Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Metroid, and Kirby, there are other series that haven't had as much in terms of "new" locales.

I can definitely see the Odyssey being a stage that travels. Frankly, I think that makes the most sense considering that travel was a major aspect of the game in general. I think of that isn't what we get, I'm confident that New Donk City will be stage.

For Zelda, I have a feeling it'll be something more stable with a Guardian stage hazard. I don't know that any particular group is more important than the others, so I don't think any particular area (Zora, Rito, Goron, Gerudo) would be the main location. This COULD be another travel stage I imagine.

With Sun & Moon...I don't really know what to expect. I really like the Kalos League Stage in Wii U, but I'm not sure what the equivalent would be. Alola Pokemon League doesn't seem as epic.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Undertale is pretty popular in Japan. Hell, the reason it has a Japanese translation at all is due to popular demand. I'm not expecting a character from it at all, I'm just debating.

I had assumed that that was from weeb trash here in America rather than Japan.
It would actually be kind of neat if a UT character made it in, but none of them really fit well. If there are non-playable bosses, Sans would be great for that assuming there were more than Brawl had (so as not to take a spot from, you know, literally anyone else).

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Hey so earlier someone was talking about Subspace Emmissary, so I'll throw my hat in the ring.
I didn't like subspace emissary. It's story was not good, and it didn't take advantage of the possibilities of having all those characters interact with each other. I also suspect it diverted a lot of development resources that could have been used on characters and stages.

But the idea of a story mode in smash is a good one, so here's how I would go about it.

I would combine the story mode and event matches. The characters would interact before and after fights with special rules (Depending on the Narrative), in a Fire Emblem dialogue-esque manner. Huge original stages need not be created for this, all the events in the story would take place in the stages already in the game. I think my system would both take a minimal amount of development time, and allow for more exciting, meaningful interactions between the characters.

What do y'all think?

One reason (of many) that I'd love another story mode is that it would allow hidden characters to stay a secret for me.

Let me explain.

Let's say Smash Switch launches, and there's confirmed to be about 5 unlockable characters that have yet to be announced to us.
I'd like to unlock those characters and have them revealed to me while playing the game, rather than just going online and just reading "______ is playable."

If those characters are unlockable through random criteria like Smash 64, Melee, and Smash 4, I'd probably just have to look it up instead of mindlessly try every mode over and over hoping for a character to pop up. Even if I did play nonstop, I'd probably be spoiled before I have the chance to unlock them.

If there's a Subspace Emissary-style mode, it's a different story. I can just get home on launch day, and play through the story non-stop, and come across the secret characters naturally as I progress. I can grind out a 10-15 hour story mode in two days while avoiding the internet. I can't grind out 10-15 of guessing doing what in what mode might maybe unlock a character.

It really just boils to this. There are two scenarios.

1. You're playing through a story mode with all the main characters, when a cutscene starts. Suddenly, out from nowhere, King K. Rool, hell maybe even RIDLEY, swoops in and attacks you, triggering a fight where it's obvious he's an unlockable character and not a boss. You didn't even know he was in the game, and now you're face to face with him, fighting to unlock him, with story context.

2. Mindlessly playing multiplayer modes by yourself for hours on end, before giving and going online to simply read "K. Rool/Ridley/whoever is playable and you do this to get him," or just getting spoiled before you have the chance to maybe stumble upon him.

Which would you choose?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Now that I think about it, I'd imagine that if it isn't some kind of Tour or alternating stage, then New Donk City is probably what we'd get.

I can certainly see us getting another tour stage for Odyssey or at least something that alternates when you pick it, maybe based on the song that plays upon selection.

In any case, I'd be really happy. I don't mind tour stages and Odyssey is so full of amazing areas that I'd have absolutely nothing to complain about if that's what we got.

SSB4 started in development in 2012 and pretty much just showcased the latest games in their respective franchises at the time. The only exception was Woolly World because it was supposed to release earlier but hit numerous snags in its development. Things like Game and Wario, Sonic Lost World, and Pokemon X and Y were already decently deep in development when SSB4 started. This said, SSB5 will likely mostly feature Wii U, 3DS, and first year Switch games as its stages.

That sounds about right. Odyssey content definitely isn't far-fetched in that case.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

For Zelda, I have a feeling it'll be something more stable with a Guardian stage hazard. I don't know that any particular group is more important than the others, so I don't think any particular area (Zora, Rito, Goron, Gerudo) would be the main location. This COULD be another travel stage I imagine.

Honestly, I could see it just being a general "Hyrule Field," with some small ruins like the ones that are scattered throughout the field, the dark Hyrule Castle in the background, and the Guardian hazard you mentioned coming in now and then.

I hope if it's ANOTHER travel stage, they add the option to choose just one place from the different travel stages. That option would make me much more ok with the oversaturation of travel stages.

With Sun & Moon...I don't really know what to expect. I really like the Kalos League Stage in Wii U, but I'm not sure what the equivalent would be. Alola Pokemon League doesn't seem as epic.

Not like the Kalos League Stage, but Ultra Space would be pretty damn cool. That place in HD would be stunning.

They could also do Aether Foundation or Team Skull's Po Town lair.

 

[NintenRob]

So regarding the lineup of characters from the trailer. There's one character who should be there but no one seems to have any of the black blobs pointed out as him


Villager (or Smash4 newcomers in general) Villager was clearly promoted to be this new main stay and face of the Smash 4 newcomers.

 

[Opossum]

Even if it's not as popular as it was now, still doesn't take away from all that I said earlier. What other Nintendo series in recent history has warranted a TV series, a massive toy line, multiple mangas, a movie, and even amusement park rides? Pokemon and Mario are the only other Nintendo franchises that have been able to pull all of these off. Sure, it may not have the star power it once had but what all it was able to accomplish at the height of its popularity was pretty damn impressive.

Just wanted to point this out, but Yokai Watch isn't Nintendo-owned; it's a third party franchise. Level 5, the creators of Professor Layton, own it.

 

[PK_Wonder]

I would love, when you first start a save file, to be given a difficulty option. Easy, Normal, or Hard. The only thing this affects is how much unlockable character and stage content there is.

Easy mode would have all characters and stages unlocked immediately, making your setup instantly ready for tournaments on day 1 of purchase. Maybe one or two unlockable ones that would be the hardest ones to get in a Normal playthrough.

Normal mode would be traditional levels of unlockables. Maybe a bit more like Melee and Brawl than Wii U's overly easy stuff.

Hard mode would be minimal stuff available, meaning lots of "challengers approaching" to deal with for those that like that fun.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I'm not saying it's a great idea, but it seems inevitable to me that Odyssey is a touring stage that goes between the upper atmosphere and a few different kingdoms. I'd rather they just use New Donk to bring back Fourside, but it'll probably only be one of several.