Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Retroend]

what kind of art style do you guys think will be for smash 5? will it be similar to smash 4 or different?

 

[Opossum]

I showed this to the newcomer thread, but I figured I could show it here too, since there's a lot of new blood here again.

I wanted to share the moveset I made for Celica, since Fire Emblem is often a hot topic for Smash speculation, especially as far as what they could hypothetically do to feel fresh. I put a lot of work into it, so feel free to tell me what you think.

Spoiler

Celica Drops In for a Spell!
Also check out the Celica thread since it needs more activity.​

Normal Attacks

Jab: Using the Beloved Zofia, Celica performs a three hit combo attack. The first strike comes downward from overhead, the second comes from the side in a sweeping motion, and the third has Celica twirling a bit, swinging the blade from behind in an upward motion. This is based on her in-dungeon combo from Shadows of Valentia. Specifically, it comes directly from her second, third, and fourth strike.

Dash Attack: The small wisp of fire following Celica creates a wall of flames in front of her as she charges forward. Unlike her other magical attacks, no recoil is done here. This is changed, however, if Celica charges her Fire special. If it is charged, this move makes Celica take minor recoil damage, but also makes the move hit much harder. This is taken directly from her dash attack in Shadows of Valentia.

Up Tilt: Celica points the Beloved Zofia skyward as the glowing flame beside her becomes three fire balls, which twirl around the tip of her sword. A multi-hit move.

Side Tilt: Celica thrusts the Beloved Zofia forward, moving slightly in the direction she's facing while doing so. This move comes from the first and fifth strike of her in-dungeon combo in Shadows of Valentia.

Down Tilt: Celica, while crouched, moves her hand outward, launching a small, thunderous spark toward the ground. Due to the stun effect, this move can combo into itself twice before knockback forces foes away.


Smash Attacks:

Up Smash: Celica, using the Beloved Zofia like a sort of baton, casts Excalibur above her, creating a slow-rising razor wind. It travels higher up and does more damage the longer it is charged. The move has a trapping effect due to it being a rapid multi-hit move.

Side Smash: Celica leaps up and smashes the Beloved Zofia downward onto opponents. This is based on her critical hit and finishing blow animation in both Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia. However, this move does far less knockback than the rest of her smash attacks, due to not being magically backed.

Down Smash: Celica performs her casting animation and casts Thunder, hitting both sides of the ground beside her with bolts of lightning.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air: Celica's fire ball splits into a small stream of fire. Celica moves the Beloved Zofia in a circular motion and the stream of flames circles around her twice, clockwise.

Forward Air: Celica, using a variation of Seraphim, quickly grows angelic wings and uses them to slam foes both forward and downward. This move is based on one of Celica's attacks in Fire Emblem Warriors.

Back Air: Celica quickly makes a backhanded strike with the Beloved Zofia. Here, the tip of the blade is blessed with the Thunder spell, creating a small orb of electricity at the end. Hitting with the spark does much more damage.

Up Air: Celica uses another variant of Excalibur, sending a small gust of wind upward. Knockback-wise and potency-wise, it is somewhere between Mega Man's and Mr. Game and Watch's wind-based up airs.

Down Air: Celica points her arms downward, spreading her fireball into a stream of fire beneath her in a parabolic arc.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:

Grab and Pummel: Celica has a fairly standard grab, and pummels by imbuing her hands with fire to burn the opponent. The pummel does not, however, cause recoil damage, despite being magic-based. This holds true for Celica's throws as well.

Forward Throw: Celica releases the foe as three columns of fire erupt in front of her, beneath the foe, carrying them away before causing severe knockback.

Back Throw: Celica tosses the foe back and releases a blast of light magic from her hands, sending them flying.

Up Throw: Celica waves her arms overhead after bringing her foe upward, shocking them with electricity before launching them.

Down Throw: Pointing her Beloved Zofia to the ground, three strikes of compressed wind energy pummel the foe before bouncing them off the ground of the stage.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Fire (Ragnarok) - Celica charges up her fire ball that shoots forward before exploding. At full charge, this becomes Ragnarok, which is incredibly powerful, doing roughly 35% damage and quite a bit of knock back, but at the expense of Celica taking hefty recoil damage. Chargeable and storable. While it is stored, however, any attack using Celica's fire ball will grow in power, but the recoil damage of the move will be more severe. This does not effect her pummel or forward throw, however.

Side Special: Seraphim - Celica clasps her hands together as she is bathed in a flash of white light. A giant ball of white light surrounds Celica when the button is released, and it slowly moves forward. If the opponent is overlapping Celica's light, they will be trapped similarly to Mewtwo's neutral air, before being carried forward with the ball of light and being erupted from it when it reaches its full distance. A "get off me" move befitting Celica's connection to Mila and having one of her weaknesses protected.

Up Special: Excalibur - Celica summons a gust of razor wind around her as she ascends. Nearby foes get cut by the wind, though Celica also takes minor damage from this move (less than five percent).

Down Special: Mila's Turnwheel - Celica kneels and enters a praying stance. A counter-styled move, if Celica activates this move at the right moment of impact with the foe, the foe is pushed away, doing no damage. However, Celica is healed by ten percent, making it a very risky way of restoring health. Note, though, that the move has far stricter timing than other Counter-like moves. Celica must be on the ground in order to use it, and it may only be successfully used twice per stock.

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω - If foes are in range of the attack's start up, a cutscene plays, based on Celica's in-game cutscene when activating this move. Visually, they're essentially the same. The move then ends. Unlike in Shadows of Valentia, this move does not cause recoil damage to Celica, due to being her Final Smash.

Overview:

Celica mainly relies on her spells, with a few moves utilizing the Beloved Zofia, like her jab. The Beloved Zofia acts more like a conduit for her spells here than an actual weapon for most of her moveset, where she makes graceful guiding motions with it to focus her spells, not unlike a baton, or how Toon Link uses the Wind Waker. For the few attacks where she uses the Beloved Zofia for offense, she takes a more rapier-like style.

Like in Shadows of Valentia's dungeon segments, Celica is followed by a small wisp of fire. This is mostly cosmetic and serves as a neat way for her to animate some of her attacks, but also benefits from her neutral special, wherein she can increase its size the more she charges her Fire spell. This increases the size of some of her attacks' hit boxes at the expense of more recoil damage, and after firing off her charged Fire or Ragnarok, the wisp fizzles back to its original size.

In reference to Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia's unique magic system, Celica takes a variant of Pichu's self damage gimmick, but better executed. Celica does more self damage the more potent her spells are, but can reliably kill using them. Her issue stems from her being the epitome of a glass cannon, as she can't take hits well at all, especially when using her higher recoil spells. In addition to reflecting her game of origin's mechanics, her moveset also reflects her personality and character, with her gracefulness coming through in her use of the Beloved Zofia and her penchant for self-sacrifice coming through in her powerful spells' recoil.


So yeah, tell me what you think! I wanted to make sure it was representative of Celica's character while also being something cool and unique from a Smash Bros. perspective.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If we're talking Metroid stages, I'd like to see a Crateria or Tourian stage.

Thanks to Metroid: Samus Returns I'd argue SR388 is also a likely stage. Imagine an Omega Metroid as a stage hazard.

 

[Zaeniel]

I think one of the most exciting things for Smash Switch, (Whether it's a port or not) is that it's not being held back by the 3DS.
This means, more heavy characters (K. Rool?), We'll be getting Ice Climbers back, and 100% time investment. Instead of having to put time into two games, Sakurai can focus his time into Smash Switch
I personally feel this is for the best, quality over quantity.
If it is a port, I want them to pull out all the stops, no excuses. Every stage, mode, and unique content from the 3DS merged with the Wii U. Smash run would have to be greatly expanded upon, since work would be minimal to do so, I would expect a crap ton of brand new content.
if it's a new game, then I'm down with whatever they can do, I don't want to be too picky in that case.
I'm hoping they don't butcher the competitive aspects from the Wii U as it was my favorite Smash to play competitively.

The fact they showed the Inklings so easily off the start, as if they were nothing, gives me hope. What else do they have in the bag?
As a Cloud main, I'll miss how he played in Smash Wii U, but he desperately needs a nerf, assuming the existing characters don't get buffed too much.

I only have one fear, what will happen to the Smash 4 Competitive scene? We already have so many figureheads leaving for Smash Switch, like Zero and Omni. The Smash 4 scene is already pretty sickly, I'm not sure how it will handle this blow.

I don't think Link will get a simple costume change, as it wouldn't make much sense. I do not think that's definite proof that it's not a port, considering I can create and mod my own fully Redone BoTW Link with a entirely new moveset, I'm sure the creators of Smash 4 could do it easily. Think of the notorious Goku mod for Smash 4. I do hope it's a new game though.

You know what would make a good port? If they merged aspects from ALL the games together.

Think about it, All the stages EVER, Break the Targets, Boss Rush, Subspace, oh the content..

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Never knew the fire motif went deeper than scaring squid children

 

[Capybara Gaming]

But it's popularity is dead. I'll say it again, if it's popularity was maintained until today then Janemba-cat would definitely get a spot. It feels super obscure now.

Heaven forbid the roster might have been decided when it's popularity was at an all time high.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Is it really? Blast zones are how the game series functions, if they gave Mario a new moveset using moves he's learned over the course of all the games since the n64 he would still be Mario.

MANSTA IS THAT MOTHER****ING YOU FROM THE LWA DISCORD?!?! I did not know you speculated here. Did you speculate back in SSB4?

Nah, Nintendo of America just publishes Yokai Watch in the US, is all. Same deal with Layton. In Japan Level 5 is completely independent.

As of YW2: Psychic Specters, Level-5 publishes their own titles now.

But it's popularity is dead. I'll say it again, if it's popularity was maintained until today then Janemba-cat would definitely get a spot. It feels super obscure now.

It's still very popular, just not as bombastically popular as 4 years ago.

I remember seeing an article showing the TV anime rankings, and YW still gains 2 to 3 million of viewers:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-01-25/japan-animation-tv-ranking-january-15-21/.126933

The rankings from January and beyond still give YW millions of viewers, even if most of the time, YW isn't ranked on top 10. Usually, Level-5's newest anime Snack World gains millions of viewers now.

The newest YW title, Yo-kai Watch Busters 2, sold 500K+ copies with the two versions combined:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/media-create-sales-week-8-2018-feb-19-25.1461232/

They aren't the millions seller like YW3, but they are still great sales.

Both of these things indicate that Yo-kai Watch still has a strong form of popularity, even though the scale of popularity is not as bombastic as before. To say the franchise is 'dead' or 'super obscure' is putting it in the wrong numerical terms. I think Level-5 has a good shot of getting character representation, whether it be Layton, Jibanyan, Endou Mamoru, or the Snack World protagonist. Jibanyan's chances should not be underestimated.

 

[Danpal65]

Never knew the fire motif went deeper than scaring squid children

Yet another piece of evidence that no longer supports this being a port, thank goodness.

 

[Polan]

what kind of art style do you guys think will be for smash 5? will it be similar to smash 4 or different?

Even with all the shadows, the art style resembles 4. I'm hoping the 3DS outlines are an option tho. I liked them and I will personally fight anyone who says they looked bad.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

You'd lose $300 then.
I've seen more people criticize those who want Goku than I've seen people actually supporting him.


No, because he's not a video game character. In some parallel universe where Dragonball is a video game series and is just as influential as the manga/anime franchise of our world, I would say yes, he should be in.

But even if he did get as many votes as Bayonetta, he simply wouldn't be included because he doesn't fit the basic rule of being in smash, which is being a video game character.

Hmmm... I wonder how long will they keep that rule before they crack.

I mean, Super Mario Maker had non-video game characters...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hard to say what they'll do for potential cuts for this game. The only character that I think is toast or at the very least not going to have their own roster slot anymore without a doubt is . I could see and getting reabsorbed into their counterparts but, based on popularity, I could see Lucina getting Luigified ala Roy to further justify her keeping her own spot. Like I said earlier, I already consider the 7 DLC characters of SSB4 gone because if people were willing to pay extra for them once, they'll probably be likely to again (especially and ). From there it's really hard to say. I think with either make it in the initial release or be replaced by newer additions to their respective franchises only to get in as DLC later so no sense crying over spilled milk there. I notice people say a lot but I think Sakurai has a soft spot for weird characters (just look at how much she was used in the promotional materials and on the Classic and All Star "Congratulations" screens for both the 3DS and Wii U versions) and I think he'd have a hard time dumping one of his most creative additions to date.

 

[Zzuxon]

The evidence is overwhelming that it isn't a port. When I first watched the trailer, I was at first stunned that they were revealing smash, then when it said "2018" I was disappointed, because I thought for sure it was a port. Now I'm more excited.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

MANSTA IS THAT MOTHER****ING YOU FROM THE LWA DISCORD?!?! I did not know you speculated here. Did you speculate back in SSB4?

As of YW2: Psychic Specters, Level-5 publishes their own titles now.

It's still very popular, just not as bombastically popular as 4 years ago.

I remember seeing an article showing the TV anime rankings, and YW still gains 2 to 3 million of viewers:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-01-25/japan-animation-tv-ranking-january-15-21/.126933

The rankings from January and beyond still give YW millions of viewers, even if most of the time, YW isn't ranked on top 10. Usually, Level-5's newest anime Snack World gains millions of viewers now.

The newest YW title, Yo-kai Watch Busters 2, sold 500K+ copies with the two versions combined:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/media-create-sales-week-8-2018-feb-19-25.1461232/

They aren't the millions seller like YW3, but they are still great sales.

Both of these things indicate that Yo-kai Watch still has a strong form of popularity, even though the scale of popularity is not as bombastic as before. To say the franchise is 'dead' or 'super obscure' is putting it in the wrong numerical terms. I think Level-5 has a good shot of getting character representation, whether it be Layton, Jibanyan, Endou Mamoru, or the Snack World protagonist. Jibanyan's chances should not be underestimated.

I think people say it's dead because it was hyped up as a Pokemon killer as the game went west when it turns out, surprise surprise, that tastes differ across the world.
Hype backlash, you may say.

 

[Danpal65]

Hard to say what they'll do for potential cuts for this game. The only character that I think is toast or at the very least not going to have their own roster slot anymore without a doubt is . I could see and getting reabsorbed into their counterparts but, based on popularity, I could see Lucina getting Luigified ala Roy to further justify her keeping her own spot. Like I said earlier, I already consider the 7 DLC characters of SSB4 gone because if people were willing to pay extra for them once, they'll probably be likely to again (especially and ). From there it's really hard to say. I think with either make it in the initial release or be replaced by newer additions to their respective franchises only to get in as DLC later so no sense crying over spilled milk there. I notice people say a lot but I think Sakurai has a soft spot for weird characters (just look at how much she was used in the promotional materials and on the Classic and All Star "Congratulations" screens for both the 3DS and Wii U versions) and I think he'd have a hard time dumping one of his most creative additions to date.

I can see Robin and Shulk staying in. Robin represents Awakening, which is still one of the best in the FE series. Hulk is really unique and would play completely different to Rex/Pyra. Plus, Xenoblade is really starting to become a strong JRPG for Nintendo so why not build up the representation?

One thing I hope this Smash does have is an animated opening like Melee and does not reuse the cinematic for characters reveals. That Melee opening is still one of the most hype pieces of media I have ever seen.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I showed this to the newcomer thread, but I figured I could show it here too, since there's a lot of new blood here again.

I wanted to share the moveset I made for Celica, since Fire Emblem is often a hot topic for Smash speculation, especially as far as what they could hypothetically do to feel fresh. I put a lot of work into it, so feel free to tell me what you think.

Spoiler

Celica Drops In for a Spell!
Also check out the Celica thread since it needs more activity.​

Normal Attacks

Jab: Using the Beloved Zofia, Celica performs a three hit combo attack. The first strike comes downward from overhead, the second comes from the side in a sweeping motion, and the third has Celica twirling a bit, swinging the blade from behind in an upward motion. This is based on her in-dungeon combo from Shadows of Valentia. Specifically, it comes directly from her second, third, and fourth strike.

Dash Attack: The small wisp of fire following Celica creates a wall of flames in front of her as she charges forward. Unlike her other magical attacks, no recoil is done here. This is changed, however, if Celica charges her Fire special. If it is charged, this move makes Celica take minor recoil damage, but also makes the move hit much harder. This is taken directly from her dash attack in Shadows of Valentia.

Up Tilt: Celica points the Beloved Zofia skyward as the glowing flame beside her becomes three fire balls, which twirl around the tip of her sword. A multi-hit move.

Side Tilt: Celica thrusts the Beloved Zofia forward, moving slightly in the direction she's facing while doing so. This move comes from the first and fifth strike of her in-dungeon combo in Shadows of Valentia.

Down Tilt: Celica, while crouched, moves her hand outward, launching a small, thunderous spark toward the ground. Due to the stun effect, this move can combo into itself twice before knockback forces foes away.


Smash Attacks:

Up Smash: Celica, using the Beloved Zofia like a sort of baton, casts Excalibur above her, creating a slow-rising razor wind. It travels higher up and does more damage the longer it is charged. The move has a trapping effect due to it being a rapid multi-hit move.

Side Smash: Celica leaps up and smashes the Beloved Zofia downward onto opponents. This is based on her critical hit and finishing blow animation in both Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia. However, this move does far less knockback than the rest of her smash attacks, due to not being magically backed.

Down Smash: Celica performs her casting animation and casts Thunder, hitting both sides of the ground beside her with bolts of lightning.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air: Celica's fire ball splits into a small stream of fire. Celica moves the Beloved Zofia in a circular motion and the stream of flames circles around her twice, clockwise.

Forward Air: Celica, using a variation of Seraphim, quickly grows angelic wings and uses them to slam foes both forward and downward. This move is based on one of Celica's attacks in Fire Emblem Warriors.

Back Air: Celica quickly makes a backhanded strike with the Beloved Zofia. Here, the tip of the blade is blessed with the Thunder spell, creating a small orb of electricity at the end. Hitting with the spark does much more damage.

Up Air: Celica uses another variant of Excalibur, sending a small gust of wind upward. Knockback-wise and potency-wise, it is somewhere between Mega Man's and Mr. Game and Watch's wind-based up airs.

Down Air: Celica points her arms downward, spreading her fireball into a stream of fire beneath her in a parabolic arc.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:

Grab and Pummel: Celica has a fairly standard grab, and pummels by imbuing her hands with fire to burn the opponent. The pummel does not, however, cause recoil damage, despite being magic-based. This holds true for Celica's throws as well.

Forward Throw: Celica releases the foe as three columns of fire erupt in front of her, beneath the foe, carrying them away before causing severe knockback.

Back Throw: Celica tosses the foe back and releases a blast of light magic from her hands, sending them flying.

Up Throw: Celica waves her arms overhead after bringing her foe upward, shocking them with electricity before launching them.

Down Throw: Pointing her Beloved Zofia to the ground, three strikes of compressed wind energy pummel the foe before bouncing them off the ground of the stage.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Fire (Ragnarok) - Celica charges up her fire ball that shoots forward before exploding. At full charge, this becomes Ragnarok, which is incredibly powerful, doing roughly 35% damage and quite a bit of knock back, but at the expense of Celica taking hefty recoil damage. Chargeable and storable. While it is stored, however, any attack using Celica's fire ball will grow in power, but the recoil damage of the move will be more severe. This does not effect her pummel or forward throw, however.

Side Special: Seraphim - Celica clasps her hands together as she is bathed in a flash of white light. A giant ball of white light surrounds Celica when the button is released, and it slowly moves forward. If the opponent is overlapping Celica's light, they will be trapped similarly to Mewtwo's neutral air, before being carried forward with the ball of light and being erupted from it when it reaches its full distance. A "get off me" move befitting Celica's connection to Mila and having one of her weaknesses protected.

Up Special: Excalibur - Celica summons a gust of razor wind around her as she ascends. Nearby foes get cut by the wind, though Celica also takes minor damage from this move (less than five percent).

Down Special: Mila's Turnwheel - Celica kneels and enters a praying stance. A counter-styled move, if Celica activates this move at the right moment of impact with the foe, the foe is pushed away, doing no damage. However, Celica is healed by ten percent, making it a very risky way of restoring health. Note, though, that the move has far stricter timing than other Counter-like moves. Celica must be on the ground in order to use it, and it may only be successfully used twice per stock.

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω - If foes are in range of the attack's start up, a cutscene plays, based on Celica's in-game cutscene when activating this move. Visually, they're essentially the same. The move then ends. Unlike in Shadows of Valentia, this move does not cause recoil damage to Celica, due to being her Final Smash.

Overview:

Celica mainly relies on her spells, with a few moves utilizing the Beloved Zofia, like her jab. The Beloved Zofia acts more like a conduit for her spells here than an actual weapon for most of her moveset, where she makes graceful guiding motions with it to focus her spells, not unlike a baton, or how Toon Link uses the Wind Waker. For the few attacks where she uses the Beloved Zofia for offense, she takes a more rapier-like style.

Like in Shadows of Valentia's dungeon segments, Celica is followed by a small wisp of fire. This is mostly cosmetic and serves as a neat way for her to animate some of her attacks, but also benefits from her neutral special, wherein she can increase its size the more she charges her Fire spell. This increases the size of some of her attacks' hit boxes at the expense of more recoil damage, and after firing off her charged Fire or Ragnarok, the wisp fizzles back to its original size.

In reference to Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia's unique magic system, Celica takes a variant of Pichu's self damage gimmick, but better executed. Celica does more self damage the more potent her spells are, but can reliably kill using them. Her issue stems from her being the epitome of a glass cannon, as she can't take hits well at all, especially when using her higher recoil spells. In addition to reflecting her game of origin's mechanics, her moveset also reflects her personality and character, with her gracefulness coming through in her use of the Beloved Zofia and her penchant for self-sacrifice coming through in her powerful spells' recoil.


So yeah, tell me what you think! I wanted to make sure it was representative of Celica's character while also being something cool and unique from a Smash Bros. perspective.

My favourite part of this is how well the self-damage gimmick has been implemented. I seriously never thought I'd see the day where a self-damaging gimmick in Smash could be implemented in a good way- glad to be proven wrong.

Honestly, if you told me she was a glass cannon type of character, then wouldn't play her (because I'm not a fan of the glass canon archetype), but after reading everything else, I'd totally down to play your vision of the character; great job Opo

I might do one for Kyo, but that I might do someone else that has more demand than him of all characters

 

[?????????????]

If Ike never got cut, I don't see why Greninja, Robin, or Shulk would.

 

[Troykv]

I might do one for Kyo, but that I might do someone else that has more demand than him of all characters

As an old King of Fighters fans I would be interested in your idea.

 

[SlickWylde]

So, Inkling moveset speculation?

Do you think their Neutral Special will be the "gun"?

And what kind of Melee moves do you see them having? Down Special will go into the ink, right? But they will only be able to stay in the ink for a certain amount of time I would assume. Or maybe enemies attacking the ink makes it disappear. Really interested to see how they're incorporated.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think people say it's dead because it was hyped up as a Pokemon killer as the game went west when it turns out, surprise surprise, that tastes differ across the world.
Hype backlash, you may say.

Yeah, I already know this as a YW fan. It is just that comments about YW's waning popularity are overexaggerated. It does not mean those comments are as truthful as the actual reality of YW maintaining strong popularity in Japan.

 

[Danpal65]

So, Inkling moveset speculation?

Do you think their Neutral Special will be the "gun"?

And what kind of Melee moves do you see them having? Down Special will go into the ink, right? But they will only be able to stay in the ink for a certain amount of time I would assume. Or maybe enemies attacking the ink makes it disappear. Really interested to see how they're incorporated.

I kinda think it would have to be the Neutral Special so that they can aim it around the place. This would leave Down Special to be diving into ink like you said and then Side Special being the bomb toss. I can not imagine anything other than the squid jump thingy being their Up Special either. I think Inklings are going to be a really fun and unique character to play as.

 

[N. Onymous]

While we're dropping movesets, I mashed together a couple of movesets for Lip that some of her supporters made a while back to make this. Let me know what you think!

Spoiler: N. Onymous's composite moveset

~~Lip~~
.:Composite Moveset:.

~General Stats~
Size: Small (in-between Diddy Kong and Mario)
Weight: Very light (in-between Rosalina and Kirby)
Speed: Fast (slightly slower than Diddy Kong)
Jump: High (about as high as Pikachu)

~Basic Moves~
Neutral Attack - Hits three times.

[Hit 1] She swings her (closed) flower rod in front of her. (2%)
[Hit 2] She swings it back. (2%)
[Hit 3] She thrusts it out in front of herself while grunting. This attack has a sweet spot at the tip of the rod, and can launch the opponent. (3% normally, 4% sweetspotted)​

Forward Tilt - She does a high kick. (8%)
Up Tilt - Lip waves her free hand above her head, leaving a small trail of fairy dust. (7%)
Down Tilt - She quickly jumps onto her hands and kicks outwards in both directions, then leaps back to her feet. This move has a bit of lag starting up and ending, but its range is good. (8%)
Forward Smash - Lip twirls her flower rod around in her hands and thrusts it out in front, opening it, while grunting. Clean hits as soon as the rod opens. Deals good knockback. (18-25.2% clean, 14-19.6% late)
Up Smash - She thrusts her flower rod into the air and opens it, causing sparkly fairy dust to emerge. The fairy dust does damage as well. Has slight start-up lag. (12-16.8% rod, 4-5.6% dust)
Down Smash - Lip opens her flower rod and sweeps it around the ground in a full circle. Stands a 20% chance of tripping. (14-19.6% front, 10-14% back)
Neutral Aerial - Lip spins about in midair, holding her flower rod out. Weak, but can hit up to three times. (2% each hit, maximum 6%)
Forward Aerial - Lip does a jab with her flower rod. (7%)
Back Aerial - Lip kicks backwards. (10% sweetspotted, 7% otherwise)
Up Aerial - Opens her flower rod and spins it above her head. Unlike her up smash, the dust doesn't hurt the enemy, but the move hits multiple times, up to five. (3% per hit, maximum 15%)
Down Aerial - Lip drill-kicks downwards. This move has considerable landing lag, as Lip enters a split if she hits the ground using it. It hits up to 4 times, with the final hit capable of meteor smashing. (3% per hit, maximum 12%)
Dash Attack - She flails her wand around adorably yelling "Huuuh-ah!", hiting six times. Only the last hit deals knockback. (1% per hit, maximum 6%)
Edge Attack - Lip flips herself backwards up onto the ledge. (5%)
Floor Attack Face-Up - Lip kicks behind her, thrusts her flower rod in front of her, then climbs to her feet. (6%)
Floor Attack Face-Down - She clambers to her feet, sweeping her hand around her to attack. (5%)
Floor Attack Sitting - Lip very quickly spins her wand around herself as she gets up. (6%)
~Throws~
Pummel - Lip grabs the opponent with her free hand and thwacks them with her wand until released. (2% per hit)
Forward Throw - Lip opens her flower rod and swats the enemy away with a familiar sound effect. (7%, plants a flower)
Back Throw - This throw is similar to Lip's forward throw, except she turns around first. Compared to her forward throw, it's slightly stronger, but has less knockback and KO potential. (9%, plants a flower)
Up Throw - Lip tosses the enemy upward and jabs them with her closed flower rod for the launch. (2% toss, 6% jab, 8% total)
Down Throw - Lip slams the enemy to the ground and bounces off of their prone body to launch them. (5% toss, 4% stomp, 9% total)

~Specials~
Neutral Special

[Default] Lip's Stick - Essentially, this is a stronger, chargable version of the Lip's Stick item. Lip opens her flower rod and begins to swing it above her head from side to side for as long as the button is held. When the button is released, she swings her rod out in front of her. How long the button was held down determines how strongly the move hits and how large the flower planted on the enemy's head is. It takes Lip about four seconds to reach maximum charge. Charge is retained if the move is canceled out of in any way, but not if Lip is hit. (8% uncharged, +2% for every two waves, 18% when fully charged at 10th wave, 20% at sweetspot when fully charged; flower is small at waves 1-4, medium at waves 5-9, large when fully charged)
[Custom 1] Flare's Stick - The attack uses the flame effect instead of planting a flower. It deals more damage, but it takes longer to charge. (10% uncharged, +2 for every two waves, 24% when fully charged at 12th wave, 25% at sweetspot when fully charged)
[Custom 2] Windy's Stick - The attack charges slightly faster (3.25 seconds instead of 4), but does not
deal damage. Instead, it creates a pushing wind effect in front of Lip, the power of which varies depending on how long it was charged for. At zero charge, the wind push is negligible. At maximum charge, it pushes an enemy almost half a Final Destination length. (0%)​

Side Special

[Default] Quick Swap - Lip points and makes a "Hup!" noise as Panel de Pon's in-game cursor appears around her with the appropriate sound effect. After a delay of about half a second, Lip and any fighter or other interactable object that happens to be at the opposite end are switched to the other side of the cursor, which disappears. The cursor remains around Lip once summoned until it disappears, and if a fighter or item leaves the cursor's hitbox in any way, it will not be switched. This can be used for horizontal recovery and to thwart edge-guarding attempts, but heavier fighters or items will take more time to switch. (0%)
[Custom 1] Speed Swap - The cursor is twice its length horizontally, enhancing its mobility and recovery abilities. However, it can only switch Lip -- other fighters and items are unaffected. (0%)
[Custom 2] Launching Swap - The cursor, now red, does not switch Lip, or anything else for that matter. It simply appears and then vanishes. Anything standing at the opposite side of the cursor, though, takes damage and is launched a short distance. (6%)​

Up Special

[Default] Watabou - A watabou, the round fluffy cotton creature seen on the title screen of Panel de Pon, appears, with its tail in Lip's free hand. It carries her upwards for a certain time, similarly to Duck Jump, until it reaches its apex, where it will explode and deal damage to anyone nearby. Lip falls down helpless afterwards. If it receives around 10% damage, the watabou will explode instantly. (6%)
[Custom 1] Fairy Duster Watabou - While flying, Lip drops fairy dust that can put small flowers on enemies' heads. As a trade-off, though, the watabou's explosion deals no damage. (0%)
[Custom 2] Chubby Fluff - The watabou is twice its normal size, rises much slower and lower, and can't cover much horizontal ground at all. However, its explosion is larger and fiery. (12%)​

Down Special

[Default] Garbage Block - Lip swipes her wand in front of her. This deals no damage, but it does cause a long pink garbage block to appear in the air above and in front of her, crashing to the ground after about half a second. As an attack it acts essentially as a slightly weaker version of Kirby's Stone, although the move can meteor smash opponents. However, the garbage blocks this attack creates can also be used as temporary platforms. Up to three garbage blocks can be on-screen at a time, with each one fading away on its own after about five seconds. If a garbage block takes 11% or more damage, it will flash and pop away. Garbage blocks stacked on top of or adjacent to each other will all disappear at once if even one is destroyed. (15%)
[Custom 1] Crushing Garbage Block - The garbage black has greatly increased start-up lag, up to 1 1/2 seconds, and it will pop immediately upon hitting a solid object, but it deals considerably more damage. The impact buries ground-bound opponents. (20%)
[Custom 2] Hasty Garbage Block - The garbage blocks drop much quicker, after about 1/4 of a second, and five can be on-screen at once instead of three, but they are half their normal size and give no knockback. Due to their smaller size, they pop out after 9% damage instead of 11%. (5%)
​

Final Smash
Panel de Pon (JP)/Puzzle League (Int) - This is similar, but not identical, to the Ice Climbers' Iceberg. A background image of Lip's mother, Cordelia/the Queen, appears as a rainbow overlays the top part of the screen. Lip sticks her flower rod into the air and opens it, shouting "行くぞ！パネルでポン スタート！" ("Here we go! Panel de Pon, start!!") With that, she leaps up onto the rainbow and dashes off, and a large stack of panels rises from the bottom of the screen, remaining on-screen and rising slowly for about 30 seconds. As in Panel de Pon/Puzzle League, the stack is constantly replenished by new panels appearing from below. The size of the stack is proportionate to the size of the stage; larger stages have larger stacks, and so on. Panels remain at a set size, roughly 3/5 of Lip's height.
Instead of controlling Lip, the player controls a cursor for the duration of this Final Smash, using the Left C-Stick or Circle Pad to move the cursor and pressing the neutral attack button to switch two panels. The grab button will raise the stack. As in the Panel de Pon/Puzzle League series, any arrangement of three or more panels will disappear, popping away and slightly damaging any fighters nearby (base 1%, +1% for each additional panel in a combo, +2% for each consecutive chain). The amount of knockback dealt by popping panels varies based on how big the combo or chain was. A default Clear 3 combo has very little knockback, if any at all, whereas a Clear 6 or a x4 Chain will have considerably more launch power and a x10 Chain will rival the Home-Run Bat. The appropriate sound effects and fanfares play throughout the Final Smash. While any amount of damage will pop the panels automatically, the cursor acts as it does in Lip's Side-B and can help to relocate interfering fighters, although it can't leave the horizontal or vertical boundaries of the stack. Dropping a panel onto an enemy's head deals 2% damage with mild knockback.
Every second or so, a varying number of the panels (depending on the size of the stack) on the outer edge of the mountain will flash, an indicator that it is about to activate. A panel is active for about one second and glows brighter while it does so. Any fighter who touches an active panel will suffer an effect relating to its color

• The red heart panel deals 3% fire damage.
• The yellow star panel deals 2% electric damage.
• The green circle panel deals 4% neutral damage and launches.
• The purple diamond deals 3% darkness damage.
• The cyan triangle deals 2% damage and freezes.
• The blue upside-down triangle deals 3% water damage.
• The gray ! panel deals 2% neutral damage and buries.

If the stack of panels is raised past the top blast line, anyone standing at the very top will be Star KO'd, but the Final Smash will automatically end. Like in the original games, clearing a Combo or Chain when the stack is within two or three panels' worth of the top blast line will cause it to temporarily stop rising as Lip shouts "止まれ！" ("Stop!").
Once the Final Smash timer runs out (unlike in an actual Panel de Pon/Puzzle League game, clearing a Combo or a Chain will not delay the timer) or the top blast line is hit, every panel in the stack will flash and pop simultaneously (4% neutral damage), dealing moderate knockback. A flower drifts gently down to the center of the stage, or near the center if there is a bottomless pit in the middle of the arena, and, once it lands, puffs in a shower of fairy dust to reveal Lip. If the Final Smash ended via time-out, she twirls her flower rod about and poses with it, adding a happy "やったよ！" ("I did it!") If it ended by hitting the upper blast line, she instead slumps in disappointment and sadly says "残念…" ("Too bad...").

~Taunts~
Up Taunt: Lip faces the screen, pumps her fist into the air, and says "yatta!"
Down Taunt: Lip magically produces a flower and smells of it, then sneezes, scattering the petals everywhere. The sneeze has a very small push wind box.
Side Taunt: Lip looks at the back of her skirt and dusts it off.

~Victory Poses~
A: Lip hops up and down three times, saying "Yatta!" on the third leap. She doesn't quite make the landing and trips after her name slides on-screen. She smiles sheepishly at the camera and rubs her bottom throughout the results.
B: Sitting down, Lip creates a large yellow flower underneath herself, which begins to float. On the flower, she twirls her wand in her left hand, throws an open palm outwards with her right, and says "楽しいだったわよ！" ("That was fun!").
C: Lip holds Furifuri the rabbit in her hands and smiles down at him. She spins around with Furifuri and hugs him close, then winks at the camera.

~Costumes~
Text is colored according to that costume's Find Mii color.

Palette 1 - Yellow dress, pink skirt with white fringe, pink ribbon, brown boots, maroon hair, blue eyes.
Palette 2 (Windy) - Green dress, light green skirt with sky blue fringe, sky blue ribbon, brown boots, magenta hair, green eyes.
Palette 3 (Sherbet) - Cyan dress, blue skirt with white fringe, pink ribbon, cyan boots, blue hair, blue eyes.
Palette 4 (Thiana) - Green dress, pale green skirt, orange ribbon, brown boots, dark brown hair, green eyes.
Palette 5 (Ruby) - Purple dress, light purple skirt with pink fringe, yellow ribbon, dark purple boots, dark green hair, blue eyes.
Palette 6 (Elias) - White dress, light gray skirt with white fringe, purple ribbon, white boots, blue hair, blue eyes.
Palette 7 (Flare) - Magenta dress, pink skirt with green fringe, light purple ribbon, red boots, red hair, blue
eyes.
Palette 8 (Seren) - White dress, white skirt with light blue fringe, pink ribbon, light blue boots, blonde hair, blue eyes.

~Poses~
Intro - She runs down off a rainbow, opens her flower rod, and sticks it into the air while saying "Iku zo!"
Standing - She rocks from side to side, swaying her hands back and forth.
Walking - Lip skips a little while walking, similar to Peach.
Running - She leans forward a little while running, always holding her (closed) flower rod in front of herself (this is how she ran on the map screen in Panel de Pon).
Idle Pose 1 - Lip twirls her flower rod in her hand and smiles open-mouthed.
Idle Pose 2 - Lip strokes her ponytail.
Sleeping - She falls to the ground in the fetal position and starts napping.
Dizzy - Lip stumbles around as her eyes spin around cartoonishly.
Clapping - Claps politely with a big smile on her face.

~Other Tidbits~
Victory Theme - A fanfare remixed from the stage clear theme in Panel de Pon.
Kirby Hat - Lip's hair, ribbon, and ponytail.
Tripping Sound - Cartoon
Smash Charge Sound - Heavy
Cheer - "Li-p-chan!" (JP) / "Lip! Lip! Let 'er rip!" (Int)
"Congratulations!" Text - Sans-serif
Icon - A heart panel

~Trophies~
-Lip-
Fighter
[Description: Identical to her official render.]
The optimistic little fairy princess of Popplis from Panel de Pon, released elsewhere as Tetris Attack. Lip may be very cute (or should that be FAIRY cute? ...we'll show ourselves out), but don't let that fool you -- in Smash Bros., her sweet-smelling flower magic packs a punch! Weaker versions of her signature Lip's Stick can still be used by other fighters, of course.
[SNES] Panel de Pon (1995 - Japan)
[Wii] Captain Rainbow (2008 - Japan)

-Lip (Alt.)-
Fighter
[3DS Description: Lip in her Windy alternate costume using her up taunt with a garbage block behind her.]
[Wii U Description: Lip in her Flare alternate costume using her Lip's Stick special move.]
Veteran Smash players will recognize Lip's Stick as a stronger version of the item. Hold down B to charge, then let it go to show the other fighters your green thumb! Lip's Garbage Blocks pack a punch, but they can also be used as platforms by you and your enemies! Just don't let them break...
[SNES] Panel de Pon (1995 - Japan)
[Wii] Captain Rainbow (2008 - Japan)

-Panel de Pon-
Final Smash
[Description: Lip runs across a rainbow at the top of the screen while Charizard, Ness, and Bowser climb up the panel stack below. Ness is being hit by an activated red panel.]
Hope you've been brushing up on your Puzzle League skills... In Lip's Final Smash, you've got 30 seconds to rack up as many combos and chains as you can and send your foes flying! Sometimes, a panel will flash and let loose an effect based on its color. Let those panels hit the top of the screen, though, and it's Game -- or should that be Final Smash? -- Over!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

MANSTA IS THAT MOTHER****ING YOU FROM THE LWA DISCORD?!?! I did not know you speculated here. Did you speculate back in SSB4?



As of YW2: Psychic Specters, Level-5 publishes their own titles now.



It's still very popular, just not as bombastically popular as 4 years ago.

I remember seeing an article showing the TV anime rankings, and YW still gains 2 to 3 million of viewers:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-01-25/japan-animation-tv-ranking-january-15-21/.126933

The rankings from January and beyond still give YW millions of viewers, even if most of the time, YW isn't ranked on top 10. Usually, Level-5's newest anime Snack World gains millions of viewers now.

The newest YW title, Yo-kai Watch Busters 2, sold 500K+ copies with the two versions combined:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/media-create-sales-week-8-2018-feb-19-25.1461232/

They aren't the millions seller like YW3, but they are still great sales.

Both of these things indicate that Yo-kai Watch still has a strong form of popularity, even though the scale of popularity is not as bombastic as before. To say the franchise is 'dead' or 'super obscure' is putting it in the wrong numerical terms. I think Level-5 has a good shot of getting character representation, whether it be Layton, Jibanyan, Endou Mamoru, or the Snack World protagonist. Jibanyan's chances should not be underestimated.

Well when I meant obscurity and such I mean over here in the West.

Also this post is a prime example of a good argument. I am absolutely astounded on everything in this post. This is the prime example of a great post.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So, Inkling moveset speculation?

Do you think their Neutral Special will be the "gun"?

And what kind of Melee moves do you see them having? Down Special will go into the ink, right? But they will only be able to stay in the ink for a certain amount of time I would assume. Or maybe enemies attacking the ink makes it disappear. Really interested to see how they're incorporated.

I think they might share 's jab and ftilt functionality, that is to say, pressing A and pressing /+ A will fire their gun.

Honestly, the idea of their neutral special being the gun reminds me too much of Mega Man X only being able to charge while standing still in MvCI... I never really liked that, so I feel like mapping it to A will allow them to use the gun and still traverse the stage as need be.

 

[Opossum]

So, Inkling moveset speculation?

Do you think their Neutral Special will be the "gun"?

And what kind of Melee moves do you see them having? Down Special will go into the ink, right? But they will only be able to stay in the ink for a certain amount of time I would assume. Or maybe enemies attacking the ink makes it disappear. Really interested to see how they're incorporated.

I think going into the ink could be reserved for their crawl, actually! Splat some ink on the stage and it essentially becomes an area-specific fast crawl to aid their mobility. I'm thinking the Splatbomb is their down special.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I will say, if characters having more than 1 moveset is a thing, Dr. Mario may become Mario's alternate.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Inklings up special will obviously, 100%, be the super jump.

 

[Opossum]

My favourite part of this is how well the self-damage gimmick has been implemented. I seriously never thought I'd see the day where a self-damaging gimmick in Smash could be implemented in a good way- glad to be proven wrong.

Honestly, if you told me she was a glass cannon type of character, then wouldn't play her (because I'm not a fan of the glass canon archetype), but after reading everything else, I'd totally down to play your vision of the character; great job Opo

I might do one for Kyo, but that I might do someone else that has more demand than him of all characters

Thanks! Means a lot.

And yeah, I figured instead of a Pichu styled thing, a high risk/high reward type of style would suit her better, especially since it plays into the strategy aspect of Fire Emblem, like Robin's durability and Marth's spacing.

And Kyo could be neat to see a set for, honestly.

 

[Zzuxon]

While we're dropping movesets, I mashed together a couple of movesets for Lip that some of her supporters made a while back to make this. Let me know what you think!

Spoiler: N. Onymous's composite moveset

~~Lip~~
.:Composite Moveset:.

~General Stats~
Size: Small (in-between Diddy Kong and Mario)
Weight: Very light (in-between Rosalina and Kirby)
Speed: Fast (slightly slower than Diddy Kong)
Jump: High (about as high as Pikachu)

~Basic Moves~
Neutral Attack - Hits three times.

[Hit 1] She swings her (closed) flower rod in front of her. (2%)
[Hit 2] She swings it back. (2%)
[Hit 3] She thrusts it out in front of herself while grunting. This attack has a sweet spot at the tip of the rod, and can launch the opponent. (3% normally, 4% sweetspotted)​

Forward Tilt - She does a high kick. (8%)
Up Tilt - Lip waves her free hand above her head, leaving a small trail of fairy dust. (7%)
Down Tilt - She quickly jumps onto her hands and kicks outwards in both directions, then leaps back to her feet. This move has a bit of lag starting up and ending, but its range is good. (8%)
Forward Smash - Lip twirls her flower rod around in her hands and thrusts it out in front, opening it, while grunting. Clean hits as soon as the rod opens. Deals good knockback. (18-25.2% clean, 14-19.6% late)
Up Smash - She thrusts her flower rod into the air and opens it, causing sparkly fairy dust to emerge. The fairy dust does damage as well. Has slight start-up lag. (12-16.8% rod, 4-5.6% dust)
Down Smash - Lip opens her flower rod and sweeps it around the ground in a full circle. Stands a 20% chance of tripping. (14-19.6% front, 10-14% back)
Neutral Aerial - Lip spins about in midair, holding her flower rod out. Weak, but can hit up to three times. (2% each hit, maximum 6%)
Forward Aerial - Lip does a jab with her flower rod. (7%)
Back Aerial - Lip kicks backwards. (10% sweetspotted, 7% otherwise)
Up Aerial - Opens her flower rod and spins it above her head. Unlike her up smash, the dust doesn't hurt the enemy, but the move hits multiple times, up to five. (3% per hit, maximum 15%)
Down Aerial - Lip drill-kicks downwards. This move has considerable landing lag, as Lip enters a split if she hits the ground using it. It hits up to 4 times, with the final hit capable of meteor smashing. (3% per hit, maximum 12%)
Dash Attack - She flails her wand around adorably yelling "Huuuh-ah!", hiting six times. Only the last hit deals knockback. (1% per hit, maximum 6%)
Edge Attack - Lip flips herself backwards up onto the ledge. (5%)
Floor Attack Face-Up - Lip kicks behind her, thrusts her flower rod in front of her, then climbs to her feet. (6%)
Floor Attack Face-Down - She clambers to her feet, sweeping her hand around her to attack. (5%)
Floor Attack Sitting - Lip very quickly spins her wand around herself as she gets up. (6%)
~Throws~
Pummel - Lip grabs the opponent with her free hand and thwacks them with her wand until released. (2% per hit)
Forward Throw - Lip opens her flower rod and swats the enemy away with a familiar sound effect. (7%, plants a flower)
Back Throw - This throw is similar to Lip's forward throw, except she turns around first. Compared to her forward throw, it's slightly stronger, but has less knockback and KO potential. (9%, plants a flower)
Up Throw - Lip tosses the enemy upward and jabs them with her closed flower rod for the launch. (2% toss, 6% jab, 8% total)
Down Throw - Lip slams the enemy to the ground and bounces off of their prone body to launch them. (5% toss, 4% stomp, 9% total)

~Specials~
Neutral Special

[Default] Lip's Stick - Essentially, this is a stronger, chargable version of the Lip's Stick item. Lip opens her flower rod and begins to swing it above her head from side to side for as long as the button is held. When the button is released, she swings her rod out in front of her. How long the button was held down determines how strongly the move hits and how large the flower planted on the enemy's head is. It takes Lip about four seconds to reach maximum charge. Charge is retained if the move is canceled out of in any way, but not if Lip is hit. (8% uncharged, +2% for every two waves, 18% when fully charged at 10th wave, 20% at sweetspot when fully charged; flower is small at waves 1-4, medium at waves 5-9, large when fully charged)
[Custom 1] Flare's Stick - The attack uses the flame effect instead of planting a flower. It deals more damage, but it takes longer to charge. (10% uncharged, +2 for every two waves, 24% when fully charged at 12th wave, 25% at sweetspot when fully charged)
[Custom 2] Windy's Stick - The attack charges slightly faster (3.25 seconds instead of 4), but does not
deal damage. Instead, it creates a pushing wind effect in front of Lip, the power of which varies depending on how long it was charged for. At zero charge, the wind push is negligible. At maximum charge, it pushes an enemy almost half a Final Destination length. (0%)​

Side Special

[Default] Quick Swap - Lip points and makes a "Hup!" noise as Panel de Pon's in-game cursor appears around her with the appropriate sound effect. After a delay of about half a second, Lip and any fighter or other interactable object that happens to be at the opposite end are switched to the other side of the cursor, which disappears. The cursor remains around Lip once summoned until it disappears, and if a fighter or item leaves the cursor's hitbox in any way, it will not be switched. This can be used for horizontal recovery and to thwart edge-guarding attempts, but heavier fighters or items will take more time to switch. (0%)
[Custom 1] Speed Swap - The cursor is twice its length horizontally, enhancing its mobility and recovery abilities. However, it can only switch Lip -- other fighters and items are unaffected. (0%)
[Custom 2] Launching Swap - The cursor, now red, does not switch Lip, or anything else for that matter. It simply appears and then vanishes. Anything standing at the opposite side of the cursor, though, takes damage and is launched a short distance. (6%)​

Up Special

[Default] Watabou - A watabou, the round fluffy cotton creature seen on the title screen of Panel de Pon, appears, with its tail in Lip's free hand. It carries her upwards for a certain time, similarly to Duck Jump, until it reaches its apex, where it will explode and deal damage to anyone nearby. Lip falls down helpless afterwards. If it receives around 10% damage, the watabou will explode instantly. (6%)
[Custom 1] Fairy Duster Watabou - While flying, Lip drops fairy dust that can put small flowers on enemies' heads. As a trade-off, though, the watabou's explosion deals no damage. (0%)
[Custom 2] Chubby Fluff - The watabou is twice its normal size, rises much slower and lower, and can't cover much horizontal ground at all. However, its explosion is larger and fiery. (12%)​

Down Special

[Default] Garbage Block - Lip swipes her wand in front of her. This deals no damage, but it does cause a long pink garbage block to appear in the air above and in front of her, crashing to the ground after about half a second. As an attack it acts essentially as a slightly weaker version of Kirby's Stone, although the move can meteor smash opponents. However, the garbage blocks this attack creates can also be used as temporary platforms. Up to three garbage blocks can be on-screen at a time, with each one fading away on its own after about five seconds. If a garbage block takes 11% or more damage, it will flash and pop away. Garbage blocks stacked on top of or adjacent to each other will all disappear at once if even one is destroyed. (15%)
[Custom 1] Crushing Garbage Block - The garbage black has greatly increased start-up lag, up to 1 1/2 seconds, and it will pop immediately upon hitting a solid object, but it deals considerably more damage. The impact buries ground-bound opponents. (20%)
[Custom 2] Hasty Garbage Block - The garbage blocks drop much quicker, after about 1/4 of a second, and five can be on-screen at once instead of three, but they are half their normal size and give no knockback. Due to their smaller size, they pop out after 9% damage instead of 11%. (5%)
​

Final Smash
Panel de Pon (JP)/Puzzle League (Int) - This is similar, but not identical, to the Ice Climbers' Iceberg. A background image of Lip's mother, Cordelia/the Queen, appears as a rainbow overlays the top part of the screen. Lip sticks her flower rod into the air and opens it, shouting "行くぞ！パネルでポン スタート！" ("Here we go! Panel de Pon, start!!") With that, she leaps up onto the rainbow and dashes off, and a large stack of panels rises from the bottom of the screen, remaining on-screen and rising slowly for about 30 seconds. As in Panel de Pon/Puzzle League, the stack is constantly replenished by new panels appearing from below. The size of the stack is proportionate to the size of the stage; larger stages have larger stacks, and so on. Panels remain at a set size, roughly 3/5 of Lip's height.
Instead of controlling Lip, the player controls a cursor for the duration of this Final Smash, using the Left C-Stick or Circle Pad to move the cursor and pressing the neutral attack button to switch two panels. The grab button will raise the stack. As in the Panel de Pon/Puzzle League series, any arrangement of three or more panels will disappear, popping away and slightly damaging any fighters nearby (base 1%, +1% for each additional panel in a combo, +2% for each consecutive chain). The amount of knockback dealt by popping panels varies based on how big the combo or chain was. A default Clear 3 combo has very little knockback, if any at all, whereas a Clear 6 or a x4 Chain will have considerably more launch power and a x10 Chain will rival the Home-Run Bat. The appropriate sound effects and fanfares play throughout the Final Smash. While any amount of damage will pop the panels automatically, the cursor acts as it does in Lip's Side-B and can help to relocate interfering fighters, although it can't leave the horizontal or vertical boundaries of the stack. Dropping a panel onto an enemy's head deals 2% damage with mild knockback.
Every second or so, a varying number of the panels (depending on the size of the stack) on the outer edge of the mountain will flash, an indicator that it is about to activate. A panel is active for about one second and glows brighter while it does so. Any fighter who touches an active panel will suffer an effect relating to its color

• The red heart panel deals 3% fire damage.
• The yellow star panel deals 2% electric damage.
• The green circle panel deals 4% neutral damage and launches.
• The purple diamond deals 3% darkness damage.
• The cyan triangle deals 2% damage and freezes.
• The blue upside-down triangle deals 3% water damage.
• The gray ! panel deals 2% neutral damage and buries.

If the stack of panels is raised past the top blast line, anyone standing at the very top will be Star KO'd, but the Final Smash will automatically end. Like in the original games, clearing a Combo or Chain when the stack is within two or three panels' worth of the top blast line will cause it to temporarily stop rising as Lip shouts "止まれ！" ("Stop!").
Once the Final Smash timer runs out (unlike in an actual Panel de Pon/Puzzle League game, clearing a Combo or a Chain will not delay the timer) or the top blast line is hit, every panel in the stack will flash and pop simultaneously (4% neutral damage), dealing moderate knockback. A flower drifts gently down to the center of the stage, or near the center if there is a bottomless pit in the middle of the arena, and, once it lands, puffs in a shower of fairy dust to reveal Lip. If the Final Smash ended via time-out, she twirls her flower rod about and poses with it, adding a happy "やったよ！" ("I did it!") If it ended by hitting the upper blast line, she instead slumps in disappointment and sadly says "残念…" ("Too bad...").

~Taunts~
Up Taunt: Lip faces the screen, pumps her fist into the air, and says "yatta!"
Down Taunt: Lip magically produces a flower and smells of it, then sneezes, scattering the petals everywhere. The sneeze has a very small push wind box.
Side Taunt: Lip looks at the back of her skirt and dusts it off.

~Victory Poses~
A: Lip hops up and down three times, saying "Yatta!" on the third leap. She doesn't quite make the landing and trips after her name slides on-screen. She smiles sheepishly at the camera and rubs her bottom throughout the results.
B: Sitting down, Lip creates a large yellow flower underneath herself, which begins to float. On the flower, she twirls her wand in her left hand, throws an open palm outwards with her right, and says "楽しいだったわよ！" ("That was fun!").
C: Lip holds Furifuri the rabbit in her hands and smiles down at him. She spins around with Furifuri and hugs him close, then winks at the camera.

~Costumes~
Text is colored according to that costume's Find Mii color.

Palette 1 - Yellow dress, pink skirt with white fringe, pink ribbon, brown boots, maroon hair, blue eyes.
Palette 2 (Windy) - Green dress, light green skirt with sky blue fringe, sky blue ribbon, brown boots, magenta hair, green eyes.
Palette 3 (Sherbet) - Cyan dress, blue skirt with white fringe, pink ribbon, cyan boots, blue hair, blue eyes.
Palette 4 (Thiana) - Green dress, pale green skirt, orange ribbon, brown boots, dark brown hair, green eyes.
Palette 5 (Ruby) - Purple dress, light purple skirt with pink fringe, yellow ribbon, dark purple boots, dark green hair, blue eyes.
Palette 6 (Elias) - White dress, light gray skirt with white fringe, purple ribbon, white boots, blue hair, blue eyes.
Palette 7 (Flare) - Magenta dress, pink skirt with green fringe, light purple ribbon, red boots, red hair, blue
eyes.
Palette 8 (Seren) - White dress, white skirt with light blue fringe, pink ribbon, light blue boots, blonde hair, blue eyes.

~Poses~
Intro - She runs down off a rainbow, opens her flower rod, and sticks it into the air while saying "Iku zo!"
Standing - She rocks from side to side, swaying her hands back and forth.
Walking - Lip skips a little while walking, similar to Peach.
Running - She leans forward a little while running, always holding her (closed) flower rod in front of herself (this is how she ran on the map screen in Panel de Pon).
Idle Pose 1 - Lip twirls her flower rod in her hand and smiles open-mouthed.
Idle Pose 2 - Lip strokes her ponytail.
Sleeping - She falls to the ground in the fetal position and starts napping.
Dizzy - Lip stumbles around as her eyes spin around cartoonishly.
Clapping - Claps politely with a big smile on her face.

~Other Tidbits~
Victory Theme - A fanfare remixed from the stage clear theme in Panel de Pon.
Kirby Hat - Lip's hair, ribbon, and ponytail.
Tripping Sound - Cartoon
Smash Charge Sound - Heavy
Cheer - "Li-p-chan!" (JP) / "Lip! Lip! Let 'er rip!" (Int)
"Congratulations!" Text - Sans-serif
Icon - A heart panel

~Trophies~
-Lip-
Fighter
[Description: Identical to her official render.]
The optimistic little fairy princess of Popplis from Panel de Pon, released elsewhere as Tetris Attack. Lip may be very cute (or should that be FAIRY cute? ...we'll show ourselves out), but don't let that fool you -- in Smash Bros., her sweet-smelling flower magic packs a punch! Weaker versions of her signature Lip's Stick can still be used by other fighters, of course.
[SNES] Panel de Pon (1995 - Japan)
[Wii] Captain Rainbow (2008 - Japan)

-Lip (Alt.)-
Fighter
[3DS Description: Lip in her Windy alternate costume using her up taunt with a garbage block behind her.]
[Wii U Description: Lip in her Flare alternate costume using her Lip's Stick special move.]
Veteran Smash players will recognize Lip's Stick as a stronger version of the item. Hold down B to charge, then let it go to show the other fighters your green thumb! Lip's Garbage Blocks pack a punch, but they can also be used as platforms by you and your enemies! Just don't let them break...
[SNES] Panel de Pon (1995 - Japan)
[Wii] Captain Rainbow (2008 - Japan)

-Panel de Pon-
Final Smash
[Description: Lip runs across a rainbow at the top of the screen while Charizard, Ness, and Bowser climb up the panel stack below. Ness is being hit by an activated red panel.]
Hope you've been brushing up on your Puzzle League skills... In Lip's Final Smash, you've got 30 seconds to rack up as many combos and chains as you can and send your foes flying! Sometimes, a panel will flash and let loose an effect based on its color. Let those panels hit the top of the screen, though, and it's Game -- or should that be Final Smash? -- Over!

I remember working on this moveset! Man, coming back here after like 2 years is a real trip down memory lane.

 

[Mansta]

MANSTA IS THAT MOTHER****ING YOU FROM THE LWA DISCORD?!?! I did not know you speculated here. Did you speculate back in SSB4?

Yea it's me, I was around during the Smash 4 speculation but I mostly stuck around the PM forums until everyone from there kinda moved over to discord.

 

[Spikeez]

I will say, if characters having more than 1 moveset is a thing, Dr. Mario may become Mario's alternate.

^This, so much. If we get moveset variants like MKX, there's a huge chance we could get an original moveset for Ganondorf while maintaining his moveset from past Smash titles, same thing goes for Wario.

 

[Lord-Zero]

We've pretty much confirmed a good majority of the silhouette lineup for ourselves; I see no reason to continue discussion on the matter.

Besides Villager is pretty much a lock; he ain't going anywhere.

I just hope they change his default appearance. The one used for Mario Kart 8 that’s also used for toys looks much better.

Opossum : Celica...her concept is already taken by Robin so that one is pretty tough. Adding a Pichu-esque gimmick would certainly be interesting but fire using fighters...I think Smash is a little overdone with those. The other spells help but it’s basically just another Robin. If we’re getting a FE newcomer, it’d probably be the protagonist from the FE Switch game. I’d prefer someone like Dark Emperor Hardin instead. We could really use a villain.

 

[NintenRob]

I think now the game has been revealed, it's time I update my roster

Here's my current

Train of thought for a new roster
It's messy and weird

Spoiler

This is a roster was designed as a biased prediction, but now I just want straight up prediction.

Which means no Banjo, no Ridley, no Wolf, I'm even tempted to make a more hurtful cut like Bowser Jr, I'm also going to keep it to one Pokemon newcomer which I'll leave as a place holder. I'm also not convinced we're getting a Mario newcomer to begin with. Maybe I'll keep Bowser Jr in that case though, I already have 8 cuts. Skull Kid I should probably remove, but I'm not going to. I think Zelda is getting a newcomer and I do see anyone in Breath of the Wild who would work. And Skull Kid is fan favourite of both the fans and the people who make the game. Plus Majora's Mask 3D would still have been new when development started. I know many may scratch their head at Savvy Stylist but it's an ongoing new series, I could see her and an unexpected curve ball

I like the idea of a 64 character roster, but I don't think it's something Sakurai would aim for while including clones such as Ribbon Girl. I like the idea of a Rhythm Heaven character though so I might include one of those. I still expect new clones though which Ribbon Girl and Isabelle are meant to be.

Where does that leave me?

Roster
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach (Daisy)
4. Bowser
5. Rosalina
6. Bowser jr (koopalings)
7.
8. Yoshi
9. Wario
10. Donkey Kong
11. Diddy Kong
12. Dixie Kong
13. Little Mac
14. Inklings

1. Link
2. Zelda
3. Ganondorf
4. Sheik
5. Toon Link
6. Skull Kid
7. Samus
8. Zero Suit Samus
9.
10. Fox
11. Falco
12. Captain Falcon
13. Olimar (Alph)
14.

1. Kirby
2. King Dedede
3. Meta Knight
4. Bandana Dee
5. Pikachu
6. Lucario
7. Jigglypuff
8. Charizard
9. Greninja
10.
11. Gen 8 pokemon
12. Mewtwo
13. Wii Fit Trainer (girl/boy)
14. Savvy Stylist

1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Robin (boy/girl)
4. Roy
5. Shulk
6. Rex
7. Pit
8. Palutena
9. Ness
10. Lucas
11. Villager
12. Isabelle (semi clone)
13. Spring Man
14. Ribbon Girl (clone)

1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. R.O.B.
3. Duck Hunt Duo
4. Ice Climbers
5. Excite biker
6. Sonic
7. Mega Man
8. Pac-Man
9. Ryu
10. Bayonetta
11. Rayman
12.
13. Random

5 removed characters, if I want 68 I need more newcomers ,but I'm not going to get 68.instead maybe there will be 64 characters, maybe 62 was initially going to be the roster so he added some quick clones to reach 64. But it turns out I have 69 character roster, and I do want to include some some clones and the newcomers I have. I've sold myself on a 64 character roster. Maybe 64 was always Sakurais goal, and he didn't add any quick clones, bye bye Ribbon Girl

That leaves me with my new roster

New roster
Roster
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach (Daisy)
4. Bowser
5. Rosalina
6. Bowser jr (koopalings)
7. Yoshi
8. Wario
9. Donkey Kong
10. Diddy Kong
11. Dixie Kong
12. Little Mac
13. Inklings

1. Link
2. Zelda
3. Ganondorf
4. Sheik
5. Toon Link
6. Skull Kid
7. Samus
8. Zero Suit Samus
9. Fox
10. Falco
11. Captain Falcon
12. Olimar (Alph)
13. Karate Joe?

1. Kirby
2. King Dedede
3. Meta Knight
4. Bandana Dee
5. Pikachu
6. Lucario
7. Jigglypuff
8. Charizard
9. Greninja
10. Gen 8 pokemon
11. Mewtwo
12. Wii Fit Trainer (girl/boy)
13. Savvy Stylist

1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Robin (boy/girl)
4. Roy
5. Shulk
6. Rex
7. Pit
8. Palutena
9. Ness
10. Lucas
11. Villager
12. Isabelle
13. Spring Man

1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. R.O.B.
3. Duck Hunt Duo
4. Ice Climbers
5. Excite biker
6. Sonic
7. Mega Man
8. Pac-Man
9. Ryu
10. Bayonetta
11. Rayman
12. Random

Could someone help me make a pic of this? I don't have a PC to make my roster image. The last one was made by Megadoomer

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Ike never got cut, I don't see why Greninja, Robin, or Shulk would.

I dunno. Ike was kinda different because he was technically one of the two main characters of Radiant Dawn, the last console FE game at the time, which was on the Wii anyways. Given Xenoblade's growing popularity and two new additions since SSB4, I could see it getting a new rep from 2 (I don't know the characters' names aside from the sword girl with the gigantic jahoobers named Pyra I think...?) along with Shulk. Don't know what to say about Robin or Greninja though but I feel like they'll both get in either way whether it's right up front or as DLC.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

I can see Robin and Shulk staying in. Robin represents Awakening, which is still one of the best in the FE series. Hulk is really unique and would play completely different to Rex/Pyra. Plus, Xenoblade is really starting to become a strong JRPG for Nintendo so why not build up the representation?

One thing I hope this Smash does have is an animated opening like Melee and does not reuse the cinematic for characters reveals. That Melee opening is still one of the most hype pieces of media I have ever seen.

Eh. I like the N64 Original's opening more/better. It feels/felt more "Saturday Morning-ish" hyped.

 

[Retroend]

Inklings up special will obviously, 100%, be the super jump.

i wonder what their final smash will be. i haven't played splatoon before so i dont know.

 

[?????????????]

I want a remade version of the "Fighting Polygon Team" song in Smash.

 

[Megadoomer]

I think now the game has been revealed, it's time I update my roster

Here's my current

Train of thought for a new roster
It's messy and weird

Spoiler

This is a roster was designed as a biased prediction, but now I just want straight up prediction.

Which means no Banjo, no Ridley, no Wolf, I'm even tempted to make a more hurtful cut like Bowser Jr, I'm also going to keep it to one Pokemon newcomer which I'll leave as a place holder. I'm also not convinced we're getting a Mario newcomer to begin with. Maybe I'll keep Bowser Jr in that case though, I already have 8 cuts. Skull Kid I should probably remove, but I'm not going to. I think Zelda is getting a newcomer and I do see anyone in Breath of the Wild who would work. And Skull Kid is fan favourite of both the fans and the people who make the game. Plus Majora's Mask 3D would still have been new when development started. I know many may scratch their head at Savvy Stylist but it's an ongoing new series, I could see her and an unexpected curve ball

I like the idea of a 64 character roster, but I don't think it's something Sakurai would aim for while including clones such as Ribbon Girl. I like the idea of a Rhythm Heaven character though so I might include one of those. I still expect new clones though which Ribbon Girl and Isabelle are meant to be.

Where does that leave me?

Roster
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach (Daisy)
4. Bowser
5. Rosalina
6. Bowser jr (koopalings)
7.
8. Yoshi
9. Wario
10. Donkey Kong
11. Diddy Kong
12. Dixie Kong
13. Little Mac
14. Inklings

1. Link
2. Zelda
3. Ganondorf
4. Sheik
5. Toon Link
6. Skull Kid
7. Samus
8. Zero Suit Samus
9.
10. Fox
11. Falco
12. Captain Falcon
13. Olimar (Alph)
14.

1. Kirby
2. King Dedede
3. Meta Knight
4. Bandana Dee
5. Pikachu
6. Lucario
7. Jigglypuff
8. Charizard
9. Greninja
10.
11. Gen 8 pokemon
12. Mewtwo
13. Wii Fit Trainer (girl/boy)
14. Savvy Stylist

1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Robin (boy/girl)
4. Roy
5. Shulk
6. Rex
7. Pit
8. Palutena
9. Ness
10. Lucas
11. Villager
12. Isabelle (semi clone)
13. Spring Man
14. Ribbon Girl (clone)

1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. R.O.B.
3. Duck Hunt Duo
4. Ice Climbers
5. Excite biker
6. Sonic
7. Mega Man
8. Pac-Man
9. Ryu
10. Bayonetta
11. Rayman
12.
13. Random

5 removed characters, if I want 68 I need more newcomers ,but I'm not going to get 68.instead maybe there will be 64 characters, maybe 62 was initially going to be the roster so he added some quick clones to reach 64. But it turns out I have 69 character roster, and I do want to include some some clones and the newcomers I have. I've sold myself on a 64 character roster. Maybe 64 was always Sakurais goal, and he didn't add any quick clones, bye bye Ribbon Girl

That leaves me with my new roster

New roster
Roster
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach (Daisy)
4. Bowser
5. Rosalina
6. Bowser jr (koopalings)
7. Yoshi
8. Wario
9. Donkey Kong
10. Diddy Kong
11. Dixie Kong
12. Little Mac
13. Inklings

1. Link
2. Zelda
3. Ganondorf
4. Sheik
5. Toon Link
6. Skull Kid
7. Samus
8. Zero Suit Samus
9. Fox
10. Falco
11. Captain Falcon
12. Olimar (Alph)
13. Karate Joe?

1. Kirby
2. King Dedede
3. Meta Knight
4. Bandana Dee
5. Pikachu
6. Lucario
7. Jigglypuff
8. Charizard
9. Greninja
10. Gen 8 pokemon
11. Mewtwo
12. Wii Fit Trainer (girl/boy)
13. Savvy Stylist

1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Robin (boy/girl)
4. Roy
5. Shulk
6. Rex
7. Pit
8. Palutena
9. Ness
10. Lucas
11. Villager
12. Isabelle
13. Spring Man

1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. R.O.B.
3. Duck Hunt Duo
4. Ice Climbers
5. Excite biker
6. Sonic
7. Mega Man
8. Pac-Man
9. Ryu
10. Bayonetta
11. Rayman
12. Random

Could someone help me make a pic of this? I don't have a PC to make my roster image. The last one was made by Megadoomer

Here you go.

 

[Zzuxon]

i wonder what their final smash will be. i haven't played splatoon before so i dont know.

It's got to be rainmaker.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

It's got to be rainmaker.

You think so? I was thinking Inkstrike.

 

[?????????????]

The Kraken