Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MamaLuigi123456]

You forgot the Belmonts.

They're cool, sure, but they didn't hype me as much as the ones I mentioned.
I may end up having as a secondary though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I ain’t saying the buy out should happen, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be all in for it

Anywhom, even without the popularity and the requests he was gonna get in as soon as possible (and still, the ties they had was their console wars, even if its not really a positive one. Him almost joining Melee alone shows that he was special to Nintendo regardless of what party he was apart of.

He was asked to be put in Melee. He couldn't say yes due to development time. There was absolutely nothing pointing to this "special to Nintendo" crap. You're reading into something that isn't there at all. He was a gaming icon and popular. That's literally the only reason cited for why he was added.

I know people like to keep acting like having major Nintendo history in some technical sense matters, but it actually never did. That's a misconception, especially for Sonic. It's a coincidence. His history in gaming as a whole was actually important. Don't forget more that some of his music was from 06, a non-Nintendo game, too. It's like it wasn't a key factor or much of a factor at all. The only real thing being on Nintendo did is solely make it even easier to put him into Smash by that point(since Sega and Nintendo are working together more, and Sega said no at first, showing how little the "ties" meant), and if anything else, the fanbase increased by that point making his popularity skyrocket as an option for Smash, which also nobody would really expect if it weren't for Snake showing up first(in a twist, they were going to debut in the same game either way if time allowed for it). Still wasn't Nintendo-based in Sakurai's case, just a fan thing at best.

 

[Koopaul]

Ugh this box theory is kind of a mess. I honeslty put more faith in the Amazon UK leak that said 71 characters because it's a very specific number to write. And it seems very plausible that we are getting 3 more unique fighters after Isabelle.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Why would there be a barcode in between Palutena and Cloud specifically?
It’d be a really weird coincidence if there was a rating or something right over exactly where the most rumored echo fighter would be.

It wouldn’t be between them. It would be at the end of them. It is the very last group at the bottom o of the box, so we have no idea where the space is.
If it’s really an echo, then it’s Ken.
If not, the mock-up May be less complete than expected and we have this to think about:

It would make sense to leave a spot for a logo or something.
They could also really have just given Ken away.
Still up in the air.

 

[Captain Fun]

It wouldn’t be between them. It would be at the end of them. It is the very last group at the bottom o of the box, so we have no idea where the space is.
If it’s really an echo, then it’s Ken.
If not, the mock-up May be less complete than expected and we have this to think about:
View attachment 164925
It would make sense to leave a spot for a logo or something.
They could also really have just given Ken away.
Still up in the air.

Any particular reason it would have to be on that side of the box?

 

[papagenos]

Any particular reason it would have to be on that side of the box?

book shelved games might have to have consistency with whats on the sides? i doubt it for limited edition boxes though.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Any particular reason it would have to be on that side of the box?

Absolutely none.

 

[Xgears]

They're cool, sure, but they didn't hype me as much as the ones I mentioned.
I may end up having as a secondary though.

Well K. Rool was pretty lame but Ridley was pretty surprising.

 

[Megadoomer]

Ugh this box theory is kind of a mess. I honeslty put more faith in the Amazon UK leak that said 71 characters because it's a very specific number to write. And it seems very plausible that we are getting 3 more unique fighters after Isabelle.

It said 71 characters because, at the time, the official website said 71 characters (now it says 72 due to Isabelle's reveal).

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/about/index.html

They got that number by counting Echo fighters as separate (67 + 6 = 73) and counting the Pokemon Trainer as one character instead of three. (73 - 2 = 71) Seems like an odd way of numbering it to me (why not count every character as separate?), but that's how they did it.

 

[Koopaul]

It said 71 characters because, at the time, the official website said 71 characters (now it says 72 due to Isabelle's reveal).

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/about/index.html

They got that number by counting Echo fighters as separate (67 + 6 = 73) and counting the Pokemon Trainer as one character instead of three. (73 - 2 = 71) Seems like an odd way of numbering it to me (why not count every character as separate?), but that's how they did it.

Ah. Gotcha. Well still seems plausible that we will be getting at a max 3 new unique fighters revealed from now until Dec 7th. But that has nothing to do with the leak. Rather just speculation based on the frequency of character reveals.

 

[MaestroDavros]

You know. I just realized how I always forget that Daisy is in the game.
Like...I can remember all newcomers except Daisy.
I don't know why.

I think it's because out of all the new fighters (unique or otherwise), she was probably the most "well duh" addition so far, with Inkling coming closest. Daisy getting a stronger representation than a pallet swap was long overdue so she just kind of blends in.

She's also been used as a poster child for the echo concept, and I find it likely that the decision to add her was one of the reasons the category of echo fighters exists in the first place.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think it's because out of all the new fighters (unique or otherwise), she was probably the most "well duh" addition so far, with Inkling coming closest. Daisy getting a stronger representation than a pallet swap was long overdue so she just kind of blends in.

She's also been used as a poster child for the echo concept, and I find it likely that the decision to add her was one of the reasons the category of echo fighters exists in the first place.

Daisy is many things, but she is far from being a "well duh" character.

Just ask Waluigi's supporters.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Can y’all stop with all the Daisy hate? She’s far from a fav character of mine but there are people here happy about her inclusion and don’t need to see your petty comments over a fictional character while trying to speculate and soiling what should be a victory for them regardless.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

He follow up with


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77008096

And that quote about exception with the box theory is very vauge. I'm leaning towards either it's the only character not on the box (why is that?) or this character is an exception to the others because it's dlc and thus doesn't appear on the box.

Verg is the only credible leaker we have at this point so I hope he comes out and clarifies. Seriously if he comes out and says hey I've heard of three more unique base roster newcomers, I will count that as a major point against the box theory.

 

[majora_787]

It feels like a lot of negativity brewing lately, but I'm still content to sit on my old guesstimation of 9 (now 8) newcomers maximum. At the end of the day, even if that comes to pass we'd potentially be looking at something like 9 newcomers and 8 echo fighters. If that much came to pass, let alone part of it, it would still be the smallest unique newcomer cast we've gotten in the series. And that's something I'm perfectly fine with.

Eight might entirely be shooting too high, but I feel like two is shooting too low and I'd rather just enjoy the speculation period while it lasts.

 

[Dandelionel]

As a long time Daisy fan, her being in this game is dream come true. Who the **** cares about a unique moveset, I can play as her and beat other Nintendo All Stars.

I know there are some... "questionable" Daisy fans out there but the majority of us are silent fans who like her but we can't say anything about it, because we are supposedly crazy for just liking her. It doesn't help that the Waluigi fan base likes to throw us into the dirt alongside the character.

So yeah, you hate Daisy? Totally fine. But please don't be rude to the fans. I am not rude to Geno fans and I dislike him so why should we get a free pass to be a punching bag?
Sorry for the venting.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

One thing to keep in mind with a box design like the one we’ve been beating into the ground is making inferences vs. saying 100% what something is without knowing it.

In analyzing the boxart itself, it’s making an educated inference to say the other side may or may not be made to match with the rest of the roster. Not only would this fit the design, but the design would fit the overall theme of the game, which is, “Everyone is here!” Despite the fact that it isn’t concrete and cannot be proven to be a dead end, that doesn’t mean it isn’t a valuable deduction.

To that end, based on the design philosophy of the box, it would make more artistic sense to put all official language and barcode, compatible controller options, etc on the back with a splash image...just like the several other thousands of games typically do.

 

[Deleted member]

the overall theme of the game, which is, “Everyone is here!”

I thought the theme was "heroes vs. villains."

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I thought the theme was "heroes vs. villains."

That's what Loz18 said, until he turned out to be a fraud...
Edit: i just realized I replied to a meme post... Oops,

 

[Deleted member]

That's what Loz18 said, until he turned out to be a fraud...

Whoosh. That's the joke...

 

[Michele]

Can y’all stop with all the Daisy hate? She’s far from a fav character of mine but there are people here happy about her inclusion and don’t need to see your petty comments over a fictional character while trying to speculate and soiling what should be a victory for them regardless.

Exactly. Daisy doesn't deserve all this hate. We should try to be as happy as possible for Memoryman3!

 

[osby]

As a long time Daisy fan, her being in this game is dream come true. Who the **** cares about a unique moveset, I can play as her and beat other Nintendo All Stars.

I know there are some... "questionable" Daisy fans out there but the majority of us are silent fans who like her but we can't say anything about it, because we are supposedly crazy for just liking her. It doesn't help that the Waluigi fan base likes to throw us into the dirt alongside the character.

So yeah, you hate Daisy? Totally fine. But please don't be rude to the fans. I am not rude to Geno fans and I dislike him so why should we get a free pass to be a punching bag?
Sorry for the venting.

Smash fandom (like pretty much all fandoms) love scapegoat characters that "nobody likes", so that their faves look better in comparison.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Exactly. Daisy doesn't deserve all this hate. We should try to be as happy as possible for Memoryman3!

You realize there are more Daisy fans than him, correct?

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

I wish I could draw. I'd make ALL the Yoshi art I could imagine!!!

It's really easy to learn. I drew my avatar. You just need to practice a little.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It feels like a lot of negativity brewing lately, but I'm still content to sit on my old guesstimation of 9 (now 8) newcomers maximum. At the end of the day, even if that comes to pass we'd potentially be looking at something like 9 newcomers and 8 echo fighters. If that much came to pass, let alone part of it, it would still be the smallest unique newcomer cast we've gotten in the series. And that's something I'm perfectly fine with.

Eight might entirely be shooting too high, but I feel like two is shooting too low and I'd rather just enjoy the speculation period while it lasts.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post, but if Ultimate had 9 unique newcomers it would actually have more than Melee which was only 8 unique (). So that plus probably roughly the same amount of clones/echoes and a roster of over 70 characters would definitely make it Ultimate!

Now, we are at 5 unique newcomers so far (Isabelle is more like a Luigi-fied Villager than a semi-clone/clone so yes she's unique). That means we would need 3 more unique to match Melee, and 4 more to surpass it. Box theory aside I can't see us getting more than 4, so I think 9 uniqe newcomers is a good estimate. However I'm honestly also banking on 6-7 total unique newcomers (so 1 - 2 more) based on the box theory/Vergeben/and just gut instinct based on limited time.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I thought the theme was "heroes vs. villains."

It's really "Falcon vs Anime" all along.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought the theme was "heroes vs. villains."

No, the theme is "characters I want", obviously.

 

[MaestroDavros]

Oh god, I didn't mean to imply that I'm a Daisy hater. On the contrary, she's my favorite Nintendo princess and her announcement was probably one of the most exciting for me thus far. I was just saying that out of all the characters, and speaking with the bias of a fanboy, she was long overdue for being more than a pallet swap, whether that meant the Melee treatment (slightly different outfit), the Alph treatment or what we got. I'm incredibly happy with how Daisy has been integrated in this iteration of Smash!

 

[Pyra]

One thing to keep in mind with a box design like the one we’ve been beating into the ground is making inferences vs. saying 100% what something is without knowing it.

In analyzing the boxart itself, it’s making an educated inference to say the other side may or may not be made to match with the rest of the roster. Not only would this fit the design, but the design would fit the overall theme of the game, which is, “Everyone is here!” Despite the fact that it isn’t concrete and cannot be proven to be a dead end, that doesn’t mean it isn’t a valuable deduction.

To that end, based on the design philosophy of the box, it would make more artistic sense to put all official language and barcode, compatible controller options, etc on the back with a splash image...just like the several other thousands of games typically do.

Unless, of course, the barcode is also a playable character in the game...

Anyway, yeah, I agree that it's a pretty damn good deduction on the part of the community
Doesn't make it infallible though. It's just now at a stage where we just can't prove anything without waiting.

And that's probably gonna be said 3 dozen times by people in here haha. Speculation ain't dead, dammit

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Absolutely none.

Maybe. Depends on the packaging regulations of the country/state. Remember how Yoshi was removed from German boxer?

 

[osby]

It's really "Falcon vs Anime" all along.

I'm looking forward for Game!Falcon duking it out with Anime!Falcon.

 

[majora_787]

Sorry if I misunderstood your post, but if Ultimate had 9 unique newcomers it would actually have more than Melee which was only 8 unique (). So that plus probably roughly the same amount of clones/echoes and a roster of over 70 characters would definitely make it Ultimate!

Now, we are at 5 unique newcomers so far (Isabelle is more like a Luigi-fied Villager than a semi-clone/clone so yes she's unique). That means we would need 3 more unique to match Melee, and 4 more to surpass it. Box theory aside I can't see us getting more than 4, so I think 9 uniqe newcomers is a good estimate. However I'm honestly also banking on 6-7 total unique newcomers (so 1 - 2 more) based on the box theory/Vergeben/and just gut instinct based on limited time.

No, you're right, I forgot to consider what clones were like in Melee. But that'd still be pretty comparable to Melee, and that's my highest estimate, so I really don't feel bad about it regardless.

 

[osby]

No, the theme is "characters I want", obviously.

I think a lot of people really thought this was the theme, judging by their reaction to Isabelle.

 

[Deleted member]

No, the theme is "characters I want", obviously.

This can't be the theme. All the characters I want are impossible. Instead, we're getting irrelevant trash like K. Rool or Simon. Woe is me.

 

[Aurane]

If it weren't for Echoes being implemented (take that how you may), Daisy would never have happened. At least as her own character. I fully believe she could of been a Peach alt., like Alph or The Koopalings.

 

[Pakky]

precious and good.

 

[Pyra]

precious and good.

The K. Rool memes and the Isabelle memes are the best thing to come out of this speculation period so far

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It's really funny thing that despite being a Daisy-fan and appreciating her joining the fight outta nowhere, I still criticize the somewhat copy-paste nature of her inclusion at the moment. But that's just me being pretty critical on how Echoes have been handled so far - it just bums me that she's feeling most cloniest in terms of a moveset being straight up lifted from Peach, right down to the Turnips and floating when those aren't her innate things or abilities.

On Isabelle I'm quite happy she got to be a semi-clone - an Echo would have been fine, but a semi-clone is much better. (Unless you're Roy)

Honestly I feel like we're in a similar situation we were between E3 2014 and the Robin trailer, when Gematsu was absolutely unbreakable. Chorus Kids, Chrom and Shulk were our remaining newcomers.

Thankfully we had Captain Falcon come and revitalise everything in glorious fashion, I hope something similar happens again. Because it just feels like this speculation period is a lot less fun.

Chrom died for the Gematsu Dragon. It's natural that Incineroar will follow the suit.

Nevertheless, the way things are implied from these sources now, I'm gonna start embrace myself for Ken, Incineroar and Geno - if not another SquareEnix-rep on his place. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong and we'd get even more than that or we get something different thrown at us - just nothing that would "kill the hype", especially with what went down a short while with Isabelle.

In anycase, 4 though taught me to start treating what you have so far as the final roster - or at least analyze it down before having to ultimately settle down with it for good. Might probably believe it might help you all doing same at some point as we near the game's release - or at least take your time with it when such period comes. I know the stakes are high, but again, trying to stack on even higher is gonna make the fall hurt even more.

At least when looking to what I have, I can enjoy Richter Belmont as the unexpected fave newcomer for me, Daisy and Chrom joining the fight in their own ways, and return of Young Link + Squirtle among redone veterans from 4. And we still will have K.Rool + Ridley joining already insane roster from the last game.

Besides, the insane amount of tweaks and modes are bound to make me enjoy this game much more in long run than 4 did - and we're not even done yet what they have to show.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

He was asked to be put in Melee. He couldn't say yes due to development time. There was absolutely nothing pointing to this "special to Nintendo" crap. You're reading into something that isn't there at all. He was a gaming icon and popular. That's literally the only reason cited for why he was added.

I know people like to keep acting like having major Nintendo history in some technical sense matters, but it actually never did. That's a misconception, especially for Sonic. It's a coincidence. His history in gaming as a whole was actually important. Don't forget more that some of his music was from 06, a non-Nintendo game, too. It's like it wasn't a key factor or much of a factor at all. The only real thing being on Nintendo did is solely make it even easier to put him into Smash by that point (since Sega and Nintendo are working together more, and Sega said no at first, showing how little the "ties" meant), and if anything else, the fanbase increased by that point making his popularity skyrocket as an option for Smash, which also nobody would really expect if it weren't for Snake showing up first (in a twist, they were going to debut in the same game either way if time allowed for it). Still wasn't Nintendo-based in Sakurai's case, just a fan thing at best.

First off we only have 2 songs from 06 (and one is a victory theme) and Metal Gear/Final Fantasy 7 (for now) are the same way, so music from a non-Nintendo game doesn’t affect much when the rest of the songs have all appeared on Nintendo (plus Colors, Lost Worlds, and the storybook series being on Nintendo, yet we’re still referenced and/or had things used from it in Forces and Generations).

Anywho, yes his gaming life is important but it also wouldn’t have happened without Nintendo being around to have him and Sega compete with. Sonic’s popularity never skyrocketed due to the hopes in him joining already being at or near the top, but the fans most definitely got louder and more noticeable; and Sega declining only to end up accepting in the end (alongside the Olympics crossovers, continued appearances in Smash, a console Sonic game always being on Nintendo moving forward with 06 and 4 ep.2 being the exceptions, with exclusive games making up for those, and Forces being one of the first announced games for the Switch and apart of their first Switch sizzle real or whatever they games trailer back in January last year would be) makes their tie mean more than one Smash decline. The reading part and crap pulling has been used in other topics such as the Smash box theory and the current music theory, so it’s not like looking into something is a bad thing (even when right and/or wrong).

Now I don’t know about you, but atm I have nothing else to say, and am gonna end this conversation in favor of new one below this...

I think it's because out of all the new fighters (unique or otherwise), she was probably the most "well duh" addition so far, with Inkling coming closest.

No she wasn’t. Nearly nobody expected Daisy to join Smash in any capacity other than those who wanted Daisy (the vast majority otherwise didn’t think she’d join at all)

precious and good.

She’s so ****ing cute

 

[AugustusB]

*Yawn* Its Ya Boi! Looks like I didn't miss anything.