Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

Who wants to talk about Assist Trophies? I know they have mediocre rapport lately, but still.

Who I think would make pretty good assist trophies are

Cooking Mama
Ecco the Dolphin
Eggplant Wizard
King Hippo
Lana
Rambi

 

[Shroob]

if your a pessimist believe the box theory.

if your an optimist believe 108 stages kills it.

There, now everyone who wants more characters and to continue speculating gets to and everyone who wants to believe we are at the end and lose hope for any more unknown characters can too.

Truly this is the Ultimate smash speculation.

This doesn't work, because it can't work.


You can't have two sides with varying viewpoints exist in the same room together and try to discuss the same things.


Just like politics!



Also, calling people who believe in the box theory 'pessimists' is pretty low.

 

[Mutsukki]

Uh oh, the game’s not out and people are already expecting amazing DLC

I’m already picturing people furious because DLC was never whatever they feverishly dreamed up.

Don’t do this to yourselves

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well going to bed now. I'll talk more tomorrow.

 

[Zinith]

Who wants to talk about Assist Trophies? I know they have mediocre rapport lately, but still.

Prince Froggy can eat opponents and hop to the blast zone...

 

[Dandelionel]

I mean if we think about it, the 108 stage thing (if it isn't a typo) kinda kills the box theory, because if not why would Sakura hide 5 stages for no reason?

But at the same time there is no way that there are 5 unique newcomers left... Man this is complicated...

 

[Nonno Umby]

You know that hypocrisy works the other way around too right?

"A confirmed placeholder box that hasn't been taken down by Nintendo and that people who worked in that industry confirmed that it may easely be subjected to changes in its pattern? No, that's it boys! Sorry if your favourite isn't in, but please don't hate Inceneroar lol"

"One of the most notable magazines about video games says that there are 108 stages? Nah it's obviusly an error, that professional journalist who is capable of distinguish kanjis with very minor differences (like 牛 from 午 or 陳 from 陣) must be so dumb to confuse a 3 with an 8 like a kindergarten. The fact that it makes perfect sense with the decentration of the final row and that would leave a single blanck spot for the DLC button just like Smash For is pure coincidence lol"

Not saying any of the two is either true or false, but the 108 stages pubblished by a professional magazine holds the same amount of ground as a fan theory, if not more.

 

[Nethermoosen]

if your a pessimist believe the box theory.

if your an optimist believe 108 stages kills it.

There, now everyone who wants more characters and to continue speculating gets to and everyone who wants to believe we are at the end and lose hope for any more unknown characters can too.

Truly this is the Ultimate smash speculation.

I hope we all find out Sakurai intentionally set all of this up to get us all back for all the leaks over the years. The box art and the magazine.

Just to top it all off.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do I have to repeat myself?

You guys do know that Box theory and 108 stages don't have to contradict each other right?

 

[Noipoi]

Mimi, O'Chunks, and Dimentio should all be Assist Trophies. You can't convince me otherwise.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Why do type-o’s ever happen? It would be an accident that was overlooked.

It’s showing stuff from the August direct which announced 103.

It COULD be legit, but I’m regarding it as a mistake until:
A. Corocoro or Nintendo says it’s false. Then darn it to heck. That ****ing sucks.

Or

B. No one says anything and my hope rises until it’s confirmed.

I will not be biased towards an outcome. Either I get evidence or I will remain patient and neutral.

I'm pretty much in the same state of mind. The only thing that bugs me and makes me think it's probably a mistake on their part (either a misprint or a accidental leak) is how they just 'casually' dropped that bomb... i mean without mentionning ''here's some fresh new info: 5 NEW STAGES!''... instead it was just ''Oh btw there's 108 stages now not 103''. But it doesn't disprove anything, i just find it weird.

But what do i know about Japanese magazines and how they handle 'scoops'? the answer is nothing... i know nothing about it...

 

[Murlough]

Coro Coro is an official magazine that features all kinds of Nintendo info, and is pretty much the number 1 spot for Pokemon news.

Outright dismissing this feels reminiscent to people who claimed dismissing the box theory were wrong. As I previously said, I don't believe this entirely dismisses Box Theory, but it doesn't help it either. It adds a lot more hoop jumping to make it all work. It's still possible, but the chances have gone down in my eyes.

People have faked Pokemon leaks by creating their own images and passing themselves off as “leaked” Corocoro images.

A specific example would be the fire bunny that was “leaked” as a Gen7 starter.

I still don’t have a reason to believe this is real. If it was officially revealed by Corocoro then I’m more inclined to believe it, and maybe it is? I’m barely awake enough to pay attention tbh.

Even then I could easily see a worker being tired and reading 103 as 108.....then again that probably doesn’t make much sense in Japanese so forget that idea....

I dunno maybe its legit. I’m not sure what the big deal is about 5 more stages but alright. I guess it makes the Minecraft stage more likely?

 

[Knight Dude]

How many stages do you guys think we'll get as DLC on the other hand?

I don't know, 4-7 maybe? Depends on how many DLC characters we get, sure they're all new, but how many of those are we gonna get anyway?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Mimi, O'Chunks, and Dimentio should all be Assist Trophies. You can't convince me otherwise.

Nastasia and Count Bleck though?

C'mon. Her AT could be a reversing controls thing or an electrifying attack due to how painful the mind control looks.

Count Bleck is one I'm sure I don't even have to explain

 

[Shroob]

People have faked Pokemon leaks by creating their own images and passing themselves off as “leaked” Corocoro images.

A specific example would be the fire bunny that was “leaked” as a Gen7 starter.

I still don’t have a reason to believe this is real. If it was officially revealed by Corocoro then I’m more inclined to believe it, and maybe it is? I’m barely awake enough to pay attention tbh.

Even then I could easily see a worker being tired and reading 103 as 108.....then again that probably doesn’t make much sense in Japanese so forget that idea....

I dunno maybe its legit. I’m not sure what the big deal is about 5 more stages but alright. I guess it makes the Minecraft stage more likely?

It's legit, Push has a copy of it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

People have faked Pokemon leaks by creating their own images and passing themselves off as “leaked” Corocoro images.

A specific example would be the fire bunny that was “leaked” as a Gen7 starter.

I still don’t have a reason to believe this is real. If it was officially revealed by Corocoro then I’m more inclined to believe it, and maybe it is? I’m barely awake enough to pay attention tbh.

Even then I could easily see a worker being tired and reading 103 as 108.....then again that probably doesn’t make much sense in Japanese so forget that idea....

I dunno maybe its legit. I’m not sure what the big deal is about 5 more stages but alright. I guess it makes the Minecraft stage more likely?

It's not a fake scan. The magazine isn't leaked, it's out and available for people to get

 

[Noipoi]

Nastasia and Count Bleck though?

C'mon. Her AT could be a reversing controls thing or an electrifying attack due to how painful the mind control looks.

Count Bleck is one I'm sure I don't even have to explain

He takes you through an emotional but also hilarious and quirky story?

 

[Shroob]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1041204098480070657


Interesting thing to note here.


Push says that both magazines are using the same screenshots, so they're probably pulling from the same pool of information.


However:

Famitsu sticks with 103, while CoroCoro says 108.



I 'really' feel like this is a goof up on Coro's part here.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I still don’t have a reason to believe this is real. If it was officially revealed by Corocoro then I’m more inclined to believe it, and maybe it is? I’m barely awake enough to pay attention tbh.
?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The magazine claiming 108 stages is real, whether thats a mistake or not remains to be seen

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm thinking it's a typo

 

[Ridrool64]

If you were to ask ME, well I'd go out and throw a tag to Lissa as a Fire Emblem assist, using Rescue to bring her summoner back and Mend to heal you up. I could also see an assist in the form of Croco from Super Mario RPG if Mallow doesn't (or maybe even does) make the cut. Throwing bombs and comping people he approaches.

 

[papagenos]

I mean if we think about it, the 108 stage thing (if it isn't a typo) kinda kills the box theory, because if not why would Sakura hide 5 stages for no reason?

But at the same time there is no way that there are 5 unique newcomers left... Man this is complicated...

unique: incineroar/isaac/waddle dee/geno echo: ken/shadow/dixie/impa

stages:
pokemon sun and moon stage
mario rpg stage
golden sun stage
rhythm heaven stage
minecraft stage

i dont think its that crazy to get 5 more stages with the remaining newcomers looking something like this.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Do I have to repeat myself?

You guys do know that Box theory and 108 stages don't have to contradict each other right?

This quote was an accident. Sorry, Swamp. Lol

I'm pretty much in the same state of mind. The only thing that bugs me is how they just 'casually' dropped that bomb... i mean without mentionning ''here's some fresh new info: 5 NEW STAGES!''... instead it was just ''Oh btw there's 108 stages now not 103''. But it doesn't disprove anything, i just find it weird.

But what do i know about Japanese magazines and how they handled 'scoops'? the answer is nothing... i know nothing about it...

My mind says type-o. I’m a positive person, but it’s jarring to include that number surrounded by info and photos from a direct that claimed 5 less.
You’d think if they were aware that it was actually new information, they would have made a bigger deal about it for sales.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Today in Smash speculation

Corocoro leaks 108 stages

Everyone celebrates death of box

Turns out it was a typo

Absolutely nothing has changed

 

[ZephyrZ]

On the topic of Yoshi...why can't we compromise and say that he's both a Mario rep and a Yoshi series rep? He's still a Mario character through and through, but he also has his own series of successful games that is still alive and kicking.

if you're a pessimist believe the box theory.

if you're an optimist believe 108 stages kills it.

There, now everyone who wants more characters and to continue speculating gets to and everyone who wants to believe we are at the end and lose hope for any more unknown characters can too.

Truly this is the Ultimate smash speculation.

I consider myself a realistic optimist. I like to see the good in a situation but don't like to ignore evidence or fool myself with naivety.

Treating pessimism and optimism as black and white with no overlap or in-betweens is silly. I'm an optimistic because I believe that even if we somehow get zero newcomers that Ultimate is still going to be a fantastic game, not because I believe we're getting 50 more newcomers and 100 new stages.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

He takes you through an emotional but also hilarious and quirky story?

Lol sure.

But the Void is what I thought

 

[Murlough]

if you're a pessimist believe the box theory.

if you're an optimist believe 108 stages kills it.

There, now everyone who wants more characters and to continue speculating gets to and everyone who wants to believe we are at the end and lose hope for any more unknown characters can too.

Truly this is the Ultimate smash speculation.

I’m just here. I barely have any clue what anyone is talking about so I just smile and wave.

All this bahooky about boxes and numbers and stages. In a few days we’ll draw it all back to the illuminati or some ****.

 

[Noipoi]

How are we sure it's a typo?

 

[Ridrool64]

Also, hey, you know, maybe Famitsu was the one that was wrong/hiding information.

Unlikely, extremely considering that this is just a recap of the August Direct.

 

[CosmicQuark]

The box theory, for what its worth, does indeed have a pattern as others have said.

It groups characters in bunches of 9 and then goes on to the next group. There are 0 flaws in that logic as people have made designs that show it.


The only time this pattern breaks is Palutena-Corrin, where Ryu is located, and Vergeben, arguably our most accurrate leaker to date, has said Ken's in as a Ryu Echo.


Putting 2 and 2 together from there isn't hard.

A pattern is something that repeats. But this doesn't. It breaks in the row you mentioned, which is why I said our first thought shouldn't be: KEN! Our first thought should be "Maybe there isn't a pattern." But why is it 9 characters each time except the last row? Because you can flip a coin a hundred times and coincidentally they could all be heads. Seeing patterns that aren't actually there is another cognitive bias we should be aware of and make us more skeptical.

The question of why would they be in sets of 9, while there are only 6 slots per row, causing a discontinuous jump in the middle of each row, has no satisfactory explanation. Is it possible the box will ship like that, with Ken, Isabelle, and Incineroar? Sure, but it seems really unlikely.

And of course the Box theory could possibly fail even if that's the finalized artwork, as there could be characters announced after it ships. Every time I look at it, more and more problems arise.

Reasons why the CoroCoro news might be wrong? Sakurai talking about the number of stages *seemed* definitive, and it could be a misprint. That's it really. I really don't think the two are comparable. I recognize my bias, I see the information that conflicts with my prior assumptions, and I believe I could be excited about this while having the caveat that it might be a misprint. Not hypocritical, as far as I can tell.

CoroCoro >>> Music Theory > Box Theory >>>>> Chairs

Do I have to repeat myself?

You guys do know that Box theory and 108 stages don't have to contradict each other right?

Just like in philosophical circles, there's soft Box theory, where the box doesn't ship with every character on it, and hard box theory, where it does. CoroCoro debunks hard box theory, unless all 8 stages are returning stages/new stages for veterans, announced characters, Ken/Isabelle. But that's boring*.

*yes, this is called self-deprecating humor, I realize this is not actual evidence

 

[Icedragonadam]

I think Corocoro got the information of all of the stages but was told they had keep it secret and stick with the current known total of 103 for the issue. And they accidental screwed up here and gave the overall total stages of 108 for the base. Instead of the intended 103 for the article.

 

[Murlough]

How are we sure it's a typo?

We aren’t.

 

[Nethermoosen]

How are we sure it's a typo?

We aren’t, yet.

 

[Shroob]

A pattern is something that repeats. But this doesn't. It breaks in the row you mentioned, which is why I said our first thought shouldn't be: KEN! Our first thought should be "Maybe there isn't a pattern." But why is it 9 characters each time except the last row? Because you can flip a coin a hundred times and coincidentally they could all be heads. Seeing patterns that aren't actually there is another cognitive bias we should be aware of and make us more skeptical.

The question of why would they be in sets of 9, while there are only 6 slots per row, causing a discontinuous jump in the middle of each row, has no satisfactory explanation. Is it possible the box will ship like that, with Ken, Isabelle, and Incineroar? Sure, but it seems really unlikely.

And of course the Box theory could possibly fail even if that's the finalized artwork, as there could be characters announced after it ships. Every time I look at it, more and more problems arise.

Yes, it should indeed be Ken, because Vergeben has yet to be proven wrong, and if Ken wasn't there, there's be 3 empty spaces on that side, not two.


You're doing some extreme mental gymnastics here to try to disprove this when others much smarter than I have proven that yes, they chose sets of 9.


The fact of the matter is, up until that one row, it breaks, and after that, it goes back to sets of 9.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

How are we sure it's a typo?

Hey typo, mistake, accidental leak, clever ruse by Sakurai, unpaid intern trolling, what difference is there

Until Nintendo corrects them we won't know, it's an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

Or Nintendo won't say anything and the 108 is real and Steve World is all but confirmed.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Either way, they messed up even if it is legit

 

[papagenos]

On the topic of Yoshi...why can't we compromise and say that he's both a Mario rep and a Yoshi series rep? He's still a Mario character through and through, but he also has his own series of successful games that is still alive and kicking. I consider myself a realistic optimist. I like to see the good in a situation but don't like to ignore evidence or fool myself with naivety.

Treating pessimism and optimism as black and white with no overlap or in-betweens is silly. I'm an optimistic because I believe that even if we somehow get zero newcomers that Ultimate is still going to be a fantastic game, not because I believe we're getting 50 more newcomers and 100 new stages.

i was just sorta joking with the pessimist/optimist thing, didnt mean to label people as such.

Basically just pointing out that now people on both sides of the community have something to argue for whatever they feel the rest of the game will hold and its ironically the "ultimate" form of smash speculation cause we have two equal "sources" of "leaked" info here now.

one that points to the game having not much left to show the other pointing towards much more. its sort of funny.

 

[Nonno Umby]

The 108 could very well be a typo, but honestly it makes too much sense to me. It leaves a blanck spot for the DLC button as Smash For had, and on the website there is place for exactly 5 more stages

It might very well be a typo, but it would be the greatest coincidence in Smash speculation history TBH. If it was 113 or 133 that would have been clearly a typo, a finger slipped on the keyboards, but this is really strange and supspect to say the least.
And it surely helps the speculation going, which is always a positive.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The box itself is digitally made and already missing a character by this point. We don't even see all parts of it. It's true there's a pattern on there. However, there is also a ton of information lacking. It could have two sides with the pattern, and more characters on the very back.

The megazine just has a picture, and says 108. There is a possibility of a typo, but that's seriously the only ting against it.

They're very different situations to begin with, due to how they're created. Again, a digital rendering is subjective to change. A magazine made a printing and used a current picture. The picture could become outdated too, but it also could be the final version. The box art can't be the final version at all, due to missing a cute doggy. That's the issue with the comparison, they aren't that similar. There's fair explanations of why either could be wrong, yeah, but they barely correlate.

BTW, it has nothing to do with typing. If you were shown an actual piece of paper listing it, you can easily misread 3 as 8. It's obviously not a case of them typing it wrong. It's a case of them misreading the information. That, or as noted, they forgot to use the proper number and used the final one instead. A different kind of typo, where a person simply forgets the information given. They were probably told to use 103, but made a faux pa. I mean, come on, nobody has made small errors like that? You never miscalculated something during math? We all have. I'm not putting stock into the theory that it's a typo, but it also is pretty hard to dismiss as a potential possibility too. It's too realistic to be impossible.

 

[Shroob]

The 108 could very well be a typo, but honestly it makes too much sense to me. It leaves a blanck spot for the DLC button as Smash For had, and on the website there is place for exactly 5 more stages
View attachment 164614
It might very well be a typo, but it woukd be the greatest coincidence in Smash speculation history TBH. If it was 113 or 133 that would have been clearly a typo, a finger slipped on the keyboards, but this is really strange and supspect to say the least.
And it surely helps the speculation going, which is always a positive.

Never use the website's layout as an excuse for x = y.

My layout looks completely different than yours due to my monitor's size. It adjusts to fit your native screen resolution.