Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

The box should say "too many characters" at this point. Like too many more an it'll morph into DBZ BT3

This should be the sticker placed on the front of the box. Lord knows this guy is a dead meme and needs the money.

 

[Captain Fun]

The box should say "too many characters" at this point. Like too many more an it'll morph into DBZ BT3

New feature:
Game morph. As you play Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch, during matches, the actual game will change periodically.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I’ve been here even longer and I’ve never had any problems with anyone....


I think <,<

You're not exactly helping by slightly implying it's me.

I don't know what it is, but people really really really love to just take a lot of what I joke about at face value or take me saying certain things at face value.

I defend myself.

They accuse me of needing to chill out or being the bad guy.

Repeat process. It's happened many times with me.

 

[Deleted member]

CoD Man final smash would be locking the enemies behind a paywall...

He would also be voiced by a kid over a crappy headset.

 

[praline]

There’s only one point I will give for the box theory

72 is divisible by 2,3,4

The smashdown theory

And 12 dlc with 84 as the next number

I’d be ok with this as long as Isaac, Banjo, DQ representation and RE representation were in the dlc

 

[Pyra]

Yeah this thread moves really fast. I considered making a thread to compile all the information, and I could always do that later.

In the meantime, why are people being rude? C’mon guys, I disagree with people sometimes myself but it’s not right to start throwing insults. It doesn’t matter who started it. We should always strive to try listening to each other and keeping it civil.

“Seek to understand, then to be understood”.

I love Smash a ton. I do. But I don’t have it in me to truly be a **** about it to a stranger when really all we mostly want is to play the damn game.

Just be kind to each other. Oy.

While the theory is fine and dandy, a lot of the vitriol happens because of people being so susceptible to subscribe to every little thing. This particular theory makes a divide inclusively with Vergeben cultists supporters because the box theory uses his 2 most likely characters remaining, while at the same time it's not "absolutely everything hey may have mentioned that hasn't been debunked yet" so other more hardcore supporters of his will be antsy about it because it would mean he's wrong in some way.

As far as I care, the box theory does fine on its own without verg, and throwing that out of the equation the remaining two box-theory characters could be Medusa and Elma, Zack and Golisopod, etc.
Not that it isn't likely to be Incineroar and Ken, or anything. But honestly, it's that hard attachment that is causing more of a rip than the box itself.

There are four modes for this I think:
- The box (theory) is real, and it's Verg's characters. Probably the main group of people right now.
- The box is real, and it's not Verg's characters.
- The box is fake, but Verg's characters are in anyway. The main opposition group.
- The box is fake, and Verg's characters are a missed mark as well.

And yet, you'd think a lot of the discourse would be "the box is fake because it could definitely change in the future" or something of the sort. Which it can, and it wouldn't be hard, but you can see why they wouldn't do that because they've already decided on this design for the box to show to the public.
Yet, a lot of it seems to be "But, Verg's SE character!" (something not even particularly confirmed by him) and discussion about why "Verg is real" and other various "Vergeben theory".

As much as people want to say things are definitely 100% fact about the box, that's also not the case.
Just because it's unlikely to change layout, doesn't mean it definitely wouldn't. Characters could potentially shift around and slide (for instance, if they add an echo next to Captain Falcon, they could just shift everyone right one slot anyway). We don't know the full picture, so even if the math makes sense, we can't possibly know until the game releases. They could also simply make an asymmetric roster with slots missing anyway, as would be the instance if they add a certain amount of additional characters and rescale the portraits.

HOWEVER, people dismissing the theory outright are also in the wrong.
Comparing it to the furniture in Sakurai's office doesn't make sense, because one is an official render and one is just tacky office decoration. It could definitely potentially be the case that the furniture actually is a hint and the box actually is subject to change, but that's extremely unlikely, so if you were genuinely trying to come up with a probability of potential outcomes here, brushing the box theory off as hogwash is not a good path to take. "It's just a box" isn't a real argument. They intentionally put the characters on the side of the box, and there's intentionally a pattern there which lends credence to there being a meaning.

It's everyone being so up in their own ass about this thing to the point where it's blowing up even still after a good night's rest that generates so much vitriol.

I think we can all agree the the box theory being real isn't some kind of magical best case scenario, because a hell of a lot of people like different characters than Incineroar and Ken, so it's not like people are fighting for the theory because they want to. That's silly. In fact, while I think that it's totally plausible, I'm personally just ignoring it ever happened and keeping with my own 2-3 theory. Not because I think it's wrong, but really, what happens if I'm wrong? An outcome everyone already knew would happen? Hahaha. It's all in how fun I think it'd be in the anti-scenario- The box is misleading and verg is wrong.

These are all nothing more than thought experiments and when people treat it as more than that it becomes toxic. My dudes, we're all gonna buy the game in 3 months anyway, and the final roster is what it is whether or not anyone's theory was right hahaha

tl;dr Peachette confirmed for Smash

 

[Iridium]

This should be the sticker placed on the front of the box. Lord knows this guy is a dead meme and needs the money.

IGN - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: 7.8/10

"Too much characters", they would say.

I still stand by this. Surprised I haven't forgotten the meme you showed though.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The boxart image has been searched through and it was indeed photoshopped by Nintendo, so it's likely very subject to change. Plus, they could simply shrink the rows if they wanted to add, say, six more characters. Just my two cents though.

One thing I am predicting is that we will get the entire roster before November 2, which is when the bundle launches, showcasing the entire roster on the side.

 

[Pyra]

The game could release with the current roster and I'd be cool with it, so now I'm wondering about the new single player mode and what it might be. And the remaining ATs, and Pokeballs, and etc.
All the extra little modes that we all will probably only use once.

All the other wealth of information I'm kind of starved of, I'd like to know.
And man, it's only about 3 ish months until the game is released, and that's good enough for me. It's imminent.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

You're not exactly helping by slightly implying it's me.

I don't know what it is, but people really really really love to just take a lot of what I joke about at face value or take me saying certain things at face value.

I defend myself.

They accuse me of needing to chill out or being the bad guy.

Repeat process. It's happened many times with me.

Yeah, sorry if that came out bad. Realized it did after pushing sent. I was going for more of a “agree to disagree” message about forum interaction.

 

[Iridium]

I have a question for you all. Now that we have a playable Isabelle, what role do you think she would have in Villager's path in Classic Mode? Or you can switch it around and speculate that.

 

[Darkraid]

They should put "Ridley is too big!" And get it over with.

 

[Pyra]

I have a question for you all. Now that we have a playable Isabelle, what role do you think she would have in Villager's path in Classic Mode? Or you can switch it around and speculate that.

Secret final boss after the hands.
She challenges him for the throne mayoral position and turns into Giga Isabelle.

 

[Nethermoosen]

If we think Ken helps Box Theory and the rule of 9, that’s wrong. Objectively. And I’ll tell you why.

So, the idea seems to be that the rule of 9 on the box is in place to accommodate an echo in the row of Palatena through Cloud. They say this basically confirms it as Ken because Ryu is there in that set of 9(which has to be missing one as we only know of 8 characters between Mii Fighters and Corrin)and Vergeben is supposedly hard set on Ken being in.

Problem with that is that they could have gone with every 6 instead of 9 and Ken would still be in row with Ryu.

Here is what the hidden side would be by the rule of 6.






Ken
Isabelle and blank
This would be the hidden side by the rule of 6.

Ken fits without the rule of 9.

 

[Dandelionel]

Tbh although i fully believe the box theory the last newcomer could be anyone really. Sure, Verg has been right quite a few times already but his two sources have been rather shaky (why would he not say the square enix/pokémon reps ouright like the other ones if he was so sure about them) so it may be Skull Kid, Decidueye, Agnès (wishful thinking), Geno, Incineroar...

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I’d be ok with this as long as Isaac, Banjo, DQ representation and RE representation were in the dlc

Actually someone just pointed out minis are exclude so back to square one

 

[SvartWolf]

damn.. i miscounted again (skipped 66-e) looks like only 69 characters after all... that being said... dante may be the #70 mainly because he doesn't need a portrait in the sides, since they can just slap a sticker in the front saying "Featuring Dante from the devil may cry series" /s

 

[Kooj Kooj]

I have a question for you all. Now that we have a playable Isabelle, what role do you think she would have in Villager's path in Classic Mode? Or you can switch it around and speculate that.

Now that you mention that, I love the idea that Isabelle's path is ridiculously perilous. Like her enemies are increasingly terrifying. Start with King Dedede, then Bowser Jr., King K. Rool, Bowser, Ganondorf and finally Ridley. Just this tiny adorable dog-girl on a quest of destruction through Nintendo's most gruesome villains. It would be hilarious!

 

[praline]

Actually someone just pointed out minis are exclude so back to square one

Err... what?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Err... what?

In smash down the miis excluded so 71

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

vergeben seemed pretty sure on 6 newcomers (NOT counting ridley and inkling) right after e3

I'm NOT gonna say box theory is 100% wrong, in case anyone accuses me of denial, but, i really dont think vergeben and the box theory are compatible at all, and we need to either double down on alolan mon/square enix/mystery character OR 1 newcomer of anything 1 echo and not try and half ass mix box and vergeben together.

 

[SonicMario]

There’s only one point I will give for the box theory

72 is divisible by 2,3,4

The smashdown theory

And 12 dlc with 84 as the next number

I've actually kind of talked about Smash Down a bit regarding all this.

I thought I'd mention something regarding if we have 72 characters in the roster for the Smashdown mode.

That is of course divisible by 2, 3, or 4. Though one thing of note is of course is when we saw the Smashdown roster in the direct the Mii Fighters weren't in that possibly saying they won't be a part of that mode.

"WHAT THE HECK? DOES THAT MEAN POSSIBLY ONE MORE CHARACTER TO FIT SMASHDOWN?!?!" you might be asking

Noooooot exactly for during the direct we did get an example of the roster being dwindled down

They used a four player example... and after this match there's only three characters left.

So either...

1. One player is eliminated for the next match. Most likely whoever got the least wins and/or lowest score
2. The roster restarts as a sort of final round where you can choose whoever you want in one last attempt to take the win if things are close
Or 3. Smash Down just ends when there are more players then there are fighters left.

Granted with Isabelle, and presumably Ken and Incineroar there would still be 6 more characters meaning yet another match could go down. Let's assume the same scenario happens like what happened with this example. You have Game & Watch, Olimar, ROB, Isabelle, Ken, and Incineroar as options still for the four players. Meaning only two would be left. Which would again either go to a final bout between the Top 2 with the only characters left or the game can end and/or choices restart from there. It's an interesting speculation of how this mode might work even if they have a full roster that isn't divisible by 2,3, and 4 when they add DLC. And/or if you tried Smash Down prior to unlocking every single character.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Just gunna clear up some misconceptions I see...

ok.. just ran some calculations, and yeah... the box theory is looking more solid. (i misunderstood it the first time) and at this point Ken as a ryu echo seems to be a lock in. like, everything fits so well for Ken to be ryu echo (at least this makes me breath easier knowing that Ken was an echo) and doesn't contradict verge leak, since the last 2 spots would be gen 8 pokemon and the unkown square enix rep.

one of the blank spots is Isabelle, so only one more unique. So either Vergeben isn't 100% correct, or one of the characters he's leaking (likely the SE rep) is the first dlc character and thus wouldn't be on the box.

Basically you can't 100% follow Vergeben and the box theory, not without at least factoring in dlc.

One thing I am predicting is that we will get the entire roster before November 2, which is when the bundle launches, showcasing the entire roster on the side.

I'm double checking this but this is not the same bundle being released on Nov 2nd and I don't think there is a confirmation of when this is being released. So we don't have a final date the roster needs to be revealed by yet (well except for the game's release).

 

[Murlough]

You're not exactly helping by slightly implying it's me.

I don't know what it is, but people really really really love to just take a lot of what I joke about at face value or take me saying certain things at face value.

I defend myself.

They accuse me of needing to chill out or being the bad guy.

Repeat process. It's happened many times with me.

Yea, totally just you. Yep. Never was a common issue with others in the thread ever. Yep.

Anyway, I’ve realized that Isabelle may have a “-cide” gimmick like Ridley, Bowser, and Ganon did. Since her side special works like a long ranged grab, if it can grab people while she’s in the air, she could grab someone from ledge while falling offstage and downthrow them.

Thats just guesswork at best but if thats a thing I’m gonna laugh my ass off playing her.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Ken fits without the rule of 9.
If there is a good reason for the number 9
Then Ken ain’t it, Chief.(I finally got to say it!)
Neither is Cloud, because his would fit if we removed Ken.

It's not because of Ken, it's because of the original 8 being in the same group. (It has to be 9 because one of them has an echo, Samus.)

 

[Draugen]

There’s only one point I will give for the box theory

72 is divisible by 2,3,4

The smashdown theory

And 12 dlc with 84 as the next number

But on the last Smash Direct the Mii fighters weren't show as selectable on Smashdown:

 

[Nethermoosen]

It's not because of Ken, it's because of the original 8 being in the same group. (It has to be 9 because one of them has an echo, Samus.)

Damn! Lol.
Misinterpreted the reason.
Square one is the funnest square anyways.

 

[AugustusB]

Wake up, caught up on the thread....So I see the Box is still off the shelf, eh?

Can we put the box on the shelf for now? Admire that is is here, but let is settle for a bit?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Not to be that guy, but based on some of the initial reactions I may do the same if this all turns out to be true in terms of the box.

Although to be honest i’m a non-confrontational person. I might not and just observe the salt should it happen. Just kinda...walk away and observe from a distance I guess. Idk.

Down here, salt is a way of life.

 

[DJ3DS]

My thoughts on the Smashdown theory summed up in one hypothetical conversation:

Programmer: "Mr Sakurai, fighter #73 is finished, we hope the fans will be as excited as-"
Sakurai: "Did you say 73?"
Programmer: "Yes sir!"
Sakurai: "73 is a prime number, you IDIOT! Smashdown only works if the number is divisible by 12!"
Programmer: "But our customers-"
Sakurai: "Remove them. Immediately."

tl;dr I don't think highly of it at all. The number might end up being nicely divisible but I don't believe that would be anything more than coincidence.

 

[Darkraid]

Yea, totally just you. Yep. Never was a common issue with others in the thread ever. Yep.

Anyway, I’ve realized that Isabelle may have a “-cide” gimmick like Ridley, Bowser, and Ganon did. Since her side special works like a long ranged grab, if it can grab people while she’s in the air, she could grab someone from ledge while falling offstage and downthrow them.

Thats just guesswork at best but if thats a thing I’m gonna laugh my *** off playing her.

Yup, thanks for saying something I didn't wanna say. I don't wanna to seen as an ***hole for the things i said earlier

 

[Fatmanonice]

So I guess we won't be hearing from him anymore!

If anything! The only credible leaker is Vergeben!

So I guess the last characters left are Ken, The New Pokemon, And A Square Enix Character!

What a shame! Was hoping for other characters other than the ones Verg mentioned! \

Oh well! I guess there's always DLC (Hopefully Verg doesn't give away all the DLC newcomers)!

There will probably be more. Especially after the Isabelle reveal, Skull Kid and Shadow being MIA is now a huge elephant in the room, not to mention we have a minimum of 11 ATs who haven't been shown yet. DLC is still really likely but I'm not buying the "only two characters left in the base roster" rumor that a lot of people have started to dog pile on. I'm going to say there will be a minimum of 6 which includes Verg's statements.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm just gonna say that I am aware everyone gets misunderstood, but believe me.

You don't get misunderstood as much as I have been misunderstood over the years.

I think even others have noticed how much it happens/happened to me.

My statement wasn't saying it was only me, but rather it happens to me substantially A LOT more than any other user that I've noticed.

There was legit a period that one of my favorite things to do was just to come on, joke in off topic threads and make people laugh when I was under the Roger Smith screenname.

People ALWAYS took the jokes at face value or me being rude or mean. People would explain. I'd explain. It never mattered.

There's a reason I don't go by that username anymore. There's a reason I barely use Roger Smith gifs anymore.

People misunderstanding the jokes and my intent to be funny and lighten the mood and I quit. That didn't completely stop the problem either after that.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

it happens to me substantially A LOT more than any other user that I've noticed.

Because you keep bringing this up everytime you can, just stop. No one has anything against you.

 

[Cosmic77]

After letting this Verge and boxart ruckus roll around in my head for a bit, I can't help but find it all a little funny.

We finally got Ridley and K. Rool after years of support, got every cut veteran back, and got a ton of new characters thanks to Echoes, yet there's still a chance of people ending up severely disappointed with this roster thanks to a picture on the side of a cardboard box.

 

[Banjodorf]

People believing box theory are really grasping to assume a random NoA graphic designer knows the final roster when even Treehouse higher ups don’t know it. If this had characters we didn’t know about, it would be more valid, but it’s just placeholder art. The game is 3 months away. The FEW box art leak and the Tropical Freeze box art leak are incomparable.

But people are going insane over it any way. I’ve got nothing to lose because my characters are already in, but damn people believing this are going to feel really stupid in a couple months thinking the final reveal is ****ing Incineroar.

Quote me. I’ll be back in November.

 

[AugustusB]

My thoughts on the Smashdown theory summed up in one hypothetical conversation:

Programmer: "Mr Sakurai, fighter #73 is finished, we hope the fans will be as excited as-"
Sakurai: "Did you say 73?"
Programmer: "Yes sir!"
Sakurai: "73 is a prime number, you IDIOT! Smashdown only works if the number is divisible by 12!"
Programmer: "But our customers-"
Sakurai: "Remove them. Immediately."

tl;dr I don't think highly of it at all. The number might end up being nicely divisible but I don't believe that would be anything more than coincidence.

This as well ^^^. I wouldn't think Sakurai is keeping the number in mind to make a pretty even, everyone will be happy, number.

However, with that mindset, DLC ruins Smashdown's pretty number. So who knows?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Because you keep bringing this up everytime you can, just stop.

Is it really bugging you that much for me to explain the situation?

Like...I mean....was this ultimately necessary? No.

I've barely even interacted with you before today anyways.

And what a shock that it's today of all days, the day you get to be present for ONE conversation about the matter and think it's all I talk about.

I'll stop, but can you also stop?

 

[Pyra]

There will probably be more. Especially after the Isabelle reveal, Skull Kid and Shadow being MIA is now a huge elephant in the room, not to mention we have a minimum of 11 ATs who haven't been shown yet. DLC is still really likely but I'm not buying the "only two characters left in the base roster" rumor that a lot of people have started to dog pile on. I'm going to say there will be a minimum of 6 which includes Verg's statements.

I personally think it's 5- 3 echos and 2 uniques.

Echos
- Ken?
- Shadow?
- ???

Uniques
- Gen 7 Pokemon
- Skull Kid / Geno / Isaac

Would be funny as hell if either of us were right considering the commotion.

Because you keep bringing this up everytime you can, just stop. No one has anything against you.

That wasn't necessary. Congrats, this is the best way to keep something like this going instead of stopping.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

The boxart image has been searched through and it was indeed photoshopped by Nintendo, so it's likely very subject to change. Plus, they could simply shrink the rows if they wanted to add, say, six more characters. Just my two cents though.

One thing I am predicting is that we will get the entire roster before November 2, which is when the bundle launches, showcasing the entire roster on the side.

So... probably a Smash Direct in late October...