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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Will

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When I said "Why not both?" I meant you could have both Little Mac and the SNES Guy (who apparently is also Little Mac).
Who apparently actually isn't.
That's what I meant by his Ethan to Mac's Red. Did that not ring any bells to what I was presenting?
[bell noises intensify]
clang clang
final secret boss
boom boom
ding dong
I don't know any other bell noises

ou could redesign SNES Mac and make him play somewhat differently to normal Mac (as differently as the mechanics of,Punch-Out series allows), this would spice up the series as you suggested.
Two playstyles only differ so much, wouldn't that be cheap against certain characters who are easier to manipulate with one way rather than the other?

And I never said they couldn't just make new guys.
And I never said you said they couldn't. I just wanted to mention it because I could.
 
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staindgrey

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TP on the other hand always seemed to get plenty of praise. I have heard some people being unhappy with the HD remake of it purely because they felt it was pointless and wouldn't add much (wasn't sure how I felt about it after it's initial announcement myself) but it's mostly complaints about the change in graphics that I hear anymore.
TP got so much extra praise heaped on it because it was a launch title for a new Nintendo console, and the first "realistic" Zelda since Majora's Mask two console generations ago. I love TP, personally, but when it rereleased on Wii U, outside of that bubble of "only good launch title + it's ZELDA", the reaction was destined to simply not live up to the original. (Plus, they really should've done something to speed up the game's beginning a bit, much in the same way they sped up sailing in WW.)

I'm happy they released it, because now I can play it in 16:9 ratio without flipping my Wiimote around to swing my sword. But it's only natural that opinions of it came back down to Earth. It's just a much better looking Ocarina of Time starring the best help-character in the franchise.
 

MSmariosonic

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I am not that critical when playing games.

I just play one game, finish it and move on to the next one.

There never was a case where I straight out hated to play a game (except being on the receiving end during a umvc3 infinite combo)
 

KMDP

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Interesting. Wasn't totally sure how prominent they were since I haven't actually played any, but I assumed you had to kill the bosses at least. Either way though that doesn't solve the problem of the military setting and just generally stealth games being largely unappealing to me. This is a little superficial but when it comes to games the setting/atmosphere is hugely important to me. If I don't find the setting appealing it's gonna be real hard for me to get invested in a game.
It's not really a military setting either.

Metal Gear Solid takes place on a Nuclear Weapons Disposal Facility (Shadow Moses Island)
Metal Gear Solid 2 takes place almost entirely on an Environmental Clean-Up Facility
Metal Gear Solid 3 takes place in a Jungle... in Russia (it's weird).
Metal Gear Solid 4 is... complicated.
I actually really like Skyward Sword.
Even the motion controls.

I'd never play it again because of a whole host of other issues, but I do like it.
The biggest issue I had with the Motion Controls was that my nunchucks connector was dirty, and I couldn't roll or use the Shield Bash for most of the game.

Everything else worked fine for me.

I also accidentally overwrote my save-file with the Hero Mode file. *shrug*
MGS is way more than your generic shooter

Mostly because it isn't a shooter at all.
Indeed.
 

staindgrey

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So essentially, redo everything except the very core idea of the game? At that point it's not even the same game anymore outside of the very basic principles of it. Saying it could have been great if you changed basically everything but the core isn't really an interesting argument for me personally because you have so many what ifs it just clouds the entire debate.
Well, it's just a matter of what we're debating. I'm not defending the game, but you're approaching it like I am.

What I'm trying to say is that they royally screwed up an excellent opportunity to make an all-time great, and that the core concept was there to be an all-time great. But the final product wasn't even close. All the same, it wasn't the worst thing ever made, either. It's just easily the worst Metroid game. Which, considering the extremely high bar Metroid sets, isn't the worst result in the world.
 

StormC

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My biggest complaints with Skyward Sword was motion controls were hit and miss (swordplay was great, puzzle solving less so), the dungeons are on the lacking side and revisiting the same three areas got old.

Pretty much everything else I really liked. Ghirahim is my favorite Zelda character.
 

domokl

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Something related to that forum post, some time ago, after Loz18 went off the deep end and deleted his gamefaqs account, he made this post on Twitter, stating that he had made an account somewhere, and that info would pop up https://twitter.com/loz183/status/1030507097186807809
This fits with him posting there, though it could still be an impersonator I guess
 

Nethermoosen

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It's an impersonator pretending to be loz. Their username is 81zol, loz18 backwards...
People are expecting him to do this. He said he would. No way to know if it’s him. So i imagine this will be another community divide scenario.
 

Mutsukki

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Wasn't the actual loz18 proven to be not reliable or am I just imagining it so I can deny Steve from Minecraft
 

Knight Dude

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Honestly I would've preferred that over a mechanic that rewards you with a random free kill move, whether you've been succeeding or failing, cough CLOUD cough.
I agree with the idea, since it's more inline with what Punch-Out!! is. But the criteria might be harder to convey when characters don't have set attack patterns, unless you just had it so that each successful counter built the meter. That might be a good middle ground.
 

DarkFalcon

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Well, it's just a matter of what we're debating. I'm not defending the game, but you're approaching it like I am.

What I'm trying to say is that they royally screwed up an excellent opportunity to make an all-time great, and that the core concept was there to be an all-time great. But the final product wasn't even close. All the same, it wasn't the worst thing ever made, either. It's just easily the worst Metroid game. Which, considering the extremely high bar Metroid sets, isn't the worst result in the world.
Alright I understand what you're saying. I just don't really agree with the idea of it potentially being an all time great if done right. I would have liked to see it even reach pretty good status first. I think it's easier to imagine something being greater than it was if it was already good than if it's not very good and imagining it skyrocketing to all time great status. That's a massive leap to me, which is why I have a hard time seeing that idea in my head.
 

KingofPhantoms

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Skyward Sword held your hand at times but I never really had issues with it.

The combat mechanics is one of my favorites in any Zelda game. It requires more skill, precision and thought than most others, and I thought it was a really nice challenge that held up for many different enemies throughout the game. It's a shame we couldn't get to see how a Darknut battle would've gone in it, though.

My biggest and only real major complaint with the game, however, is that it's one of the most linear Zelda games ever. I felt that even Ocarina of Time had more of an open world than Skyward Sword did. The surface worlds had little to explore besides searching for some well hidden Goddess Cubes, and you were required to travel across most of what you could see. And the inability to explore it at night was just salt in the wound. Even the sky itself with your ability to fly through it on your Loftwing felt rather empty and lacking. Plenty of potential was lost there. If they did more with the overworlds of the game, I think it could've possibly been a lot better.

On a different note, Groose is amazing. Never ever tell me otherwise. :p
 

KMDP

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Two playstyles only differ so much, wouldn't that be cheap against certain characters who are easier to manipulate with one way rather than the other?
Let's say you have both Glass Joe and Gabby Jay (I know, bare with me).

You make one character easier to manipulate with Mac, and the other easier to manipulate with... let's say "Mick".

Also, differences in playstyle mean that some characters need different approaches to certain enemies, you could fashion this either as an Easy Mode or Hard Mode.

Another way of spicing up the formula is to have an all-female circuit (though we know they don't really want to do that, because they were originally going to have Peach in Punch-Out!! Wii, but decided against it).
 

TheYungLink

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*sees that there hasn't been any leak discussion for a long time*

"Yes, when I wake up the next day I won't have to catch up to like 20 pages of this thread or whatever"

*yet another text leak is posted*

"Oh."
 

Idon

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I agree with the idea, since it's more inline with what Punch-Out!! is. But the criteria might be harder to convey when characters don't have set attack patterns, unless you just had it so that each successful counter built the meter. That might be a good middle ground.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
Counter more moves, get a star. Cash the money out early so you get safe damage or risk it building up to a 3 star.
 

Shroob

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I never thought I'd say this, but loz18 makes Vergeben look downright reliable.
I know this is sarcasm, but at the same time, I find Vergeben pretty reliable right now.

He has a shaky track record in other games, but as of now, nothing he's said has been outright disproven.

The guy's an idiot and an attention *****, but if he ends up having proper info, more power to him.
 

DarkFalcon

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People gotta start making more fake render leaks to be discussed at length nowadays.

Or Sakurai has some random piece of furniture in the background.
 

Will

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Who needs memory when the reminder won’t let me be in denial?
Denial's a bad thing. Denial's assuming I'm actually right. I'm all for the pride to post more dab gifs and SHUFFLN's if it happens but I never wanted Steve in the first place. I just think he's Banjo's blockade to even attempt getting in.

You make one character easier to manipulate with Mac, and the other easier to manipulate with... let's say "Mick".
Relying on a gimmick is kinda what detracts you from it. You shouldn't really force a certain character to gain an advantage outside of a tutorial fight, which Joe and Jay certaintly are, but after that it should be fair game for each of them.

People gotta start making more fake render leaks to be discussed at length nowadays.

Or Sakurai has some random piece of furniture in the background.
Ew, no.
Make some actual footage to last at least 3 days.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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What's wrong with a remake of that game? All I see are nitpicks that could be easily be changed with a remake...
Oh Zinith, the arbitrary bull**** like getting Scrapper up the mountain and the random thing to please the water dragon and prove our worth despite the fact we ALREADY proved out worth AND IT ****ING KNOWS IT isn't a nitpick
 

staindgrey

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If I were in a position like Sakurai's, I would post fake renders just to screw with people, under the guise of multiple internet attention hogs.

Like, ask Karen in the art department to make a quick render of an obscure character, but don't make it look *too* good, then take a snapshot of it on my phone and post it to Twitter. Then enjoy my lunch break watching people argue over it at length.
 

Omega Tyrant

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On the flip side, I've survived a lot of Zero Suit ladder combos with Zard that would have killed almost any other fighter.
You might have survived a Zamus ladder like 5-10% longer, but then also died to many ladders you simply wouldn't have gotten hit by as another character, I know I've died countless times as Zard and ROB to ladders that wouldn't have worked on me as most other characters.

Well, that's exactly how it is Pokémon. You're still in a 1v1 setting, and if your single Charizard is your only strong suit while the rest of your team isn't on the same level to help balance out your matchups, you're still going to get steamrolled once he's down, especially against someone who has better matchups against you. Like I said, you can try to power through against a team, and it might work, but you're at a bigger detriment than having a well composed team.
No Pokemon is not comparable here, in Pokemon your team isn't sharing a health bar, and in Smash there is no "rest of the team" for your opponent, you're just fighting that same overlevelled Charizard for every stock, and you're opponent is never obligated to switch to a character they're not practiced (i.e. "levelled" for this analogy) with between games. You take his stock (e.g. knock him out), that same character (or Pokemon in this analogy) comes right back out, there is no anemic "rest of the team" to fight instead, and matchup advantages don't matter if you're not near his level, which is going to be much harder to do if you're juggling much more characters around.

Same with old Marvel games like MvC (Outside of having limited assists), XvSF, and even Marvel Infinite outside of Soul Stone, once your best character got blown back and you weren't up to par with your secondary, you're still going to lose that match. And that can be equated to stocks, as using your weaker character against someone who's more skilled with their selection will cause you to lose one immediately.
Besides the fact they're completely different games, there's one critical flaw in your analogy; using a team of characters in those games is mandatory, while in Smash you're never forced to use any other characters mid-game nor do tournaments force it mid-set in the main singles bracket.

Also, you have to remember health management factors into Smash, especially with PT, alongside being vitally important in Marvel games. Despite showing two separate health bars, it's practically one as you need to keep synergy between your team and have your options open.
Your pokemon share the same damage meter in Smash, they don't have individual damage meters. All you can do is switch to a heavier pokemon to "live longer" or switch to micromanage opposing combo/kill confirm windows in terms of health management.
 
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