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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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PeridotGX

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I also think that's a big leap to assume Blaziken's the most popular Gen 3 Pokemon. Like a really big one. There's a lot of assumptions in this post.
"And F-Zero doesn't deserve a second character"
I don't mean to be disrespectful at all my friend but this is just dumb.
Metroid's been dead for years and is only recently returning, and has 4 reps.
F-Zero was pretty popular back in its day. Got a 50 episode anime, plenty of games over the console generations, and still sees love today.
Also, by this logic, Golden Sun doesn't deserve any characters either. How do you feel about that?
BTW, it's an Echo-way different than a full on newcomer. Why does Gen 3 suddenly deserve a rep, over a second rep for a classic, well-loved, still-popular first party series that wouldn't require much dev time in the slightest?
Hope this isn't rude.
I'm pretty sure Blaziken's the most popular Gen 3 Pokémon. And this is coming from someone who's second favorite Pokémon is Sceptile.

And Metroid wasn't dead. Other M was in 2010 and Federation Force was 2016. I'm not saying they were good games, but they were there. Compare that to F-Zero, who's last release was in 2004 (As a forgettable GBA game).
 

Iridium

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I would lose it if this was added. The fresh memes would kick in like 30 consecutive cups of coffee! Seriously though, this would be so stupid, yet I would take it.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Until I see an actual out-of-series Echo (that probably won't be Blaziken or Giygas or whatever), I don't know if that can even be a realistic thing. Definitely plausible, but we have yet to see it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, people have spent the last 15 years ******** about ganondorf being a clone, I'm pretty confident it's not gonna happen again
 

Will

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, people have spent the last 15 years ******** about ganondorf being a clone, I'm pretty confident it's not gonna happen again
That was 17 ****ing years ago and a really nice coincidence though. Now they can actively choose these fighters and prop them in.
 

Luigi The President

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I'm pretty sure Blaziken's the most popular Gen 3 Pokémon. And this is coming from someone who's second favorite Pokémon is Sceptile.

And Metroid wasn't dead. Other M was in 2010 and Federation Force was 2016. I'm not saying they were good games, but they were there. Compare that to F-Zero, who's last release was in 2004 (As a forgettable GBA game).
Dead or not, I'm not sure why that should stop F-Zero, a series that was once a pretty influential and large Nintendo series, from getting a simple, long-requested, Echo, notably from the same series as Falcon himself.

Seems a lot of the most wanted characters can be classified as dead as well. Don't know why this would really matter for Black Shadow's chances.
 
D

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Echo Predictions:
  • Obvious ones are Shadow and Ken, no need to explain those
  • Isabelle and Dixie are suggestions that I personally don't see happening but believe could be in the game in some way, shape or form.
  • Impa as a Sheik Echo could easily happen with all the demand for more Zelda characters though I'm not banking on her, as much as I would love her.
  • Black Knight and/or Celica as Ike and Robin Echoes, respectively. BK still has the issue of armor clipping while Celica's is "was Sakurai aware of SoV back when he chose Echoes?".
  • A Falcon Echo, either Black Shadow or Blood Falcon, whoever you prefer. Falcon's popularity is what makes me think of it as a possibility. Unfortunately, I doubt Blaziken is happening as much as I like the idea, seeing as Kalos League is back and it appears in the background for the Fire Room. But while on the topic of Pokemon Echoes...
  • Hitmonchan as a Little Mac is my personal favorite(and unlikely) pick. It just works too perfectly.
 

KMDP

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I've been thinking.

Blaziken is meant to be a Kick Boxer.

Making him Falcon's echo doesn't really make sense within that context; because Smash Falcon is best known for his PAWNCH!
 

Idon

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Cosmic77

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Giygas or Blaziken being added as an Echo of any kind would be a terrible decision IMO. They resemble an existing character on the roster, and that's where the similarities stop.

Dead or not, I'm not sure why that should stop F-Zero, a series that was once a pretty influential and large Nintendo series, from getting a simple, long-requested, Echo, notably from the same series as Falcon himself.

Seems a lot of the most wanted characters can be classified as dead as well. Don't know why this would really matter for Black Shadow's chances.
Black Shadow is popular, but it's a stretch to say he's in the same league as Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but when you look at all the other potential Echoes that haven't been touched yet (Isabelle, Shadow, Octolings, etc.), it feels like his chances aren't nearly as strong. Wouldn't mind to be wrong though.
 

PeridotGX

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, people have spent the last 15 years ******** about ganondorf being a clone, I'm pretty confident it's not gonna happen again
I don't see that being a hinderance. That was making a very important character from a very important series an unfitting echo. Now that the roster's tripled and most of the necessary characters are in, they can make a more fitting match.
 

MrRoidley

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Blaziken as a Captain Falcon echo makes less sense than Ganondorf imo
it'd be distasteful to both Blaziken fans and to F-Zero fans. I fit both so yeah I really don't like it lol
 

Luigi The President

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Giygas or Blaziken being added as an Echo of any kind would be a terrible decision IMO. They resemble an existing character on the roster, and that's where the similarities stop.



Black Shadow is popular, but it's a stretch to say he's in the same league as Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but when you look at all the other potential Echoes that haven't been touched yet (Isabelle, Shadow, Octolings, etc.), it feels like his chances aren't nearly as strong. Wouldn't mind to be wrong though.
I never said he was in the first place though.
I just think it's silly to rule him out despite his long-standing presence in the Smash fanbase and the lack of a second F-Zero character rep.
 

Lodestar65

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Making him Falcon's echo doesn't really make sense within that context; because Smash Falcon is best known for his PAWNCH!
I don't think Blaziken will be a Falcon echo, but they could have his PAWNCH be Focus Punch or something.
 

MrRoidley

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The way I could see Black Shadow getting in would be if the Smash team, tying in to Ultimate's vibe of celebrating everything Smash, finally giving a second rep to the two of the original series that only had one character ever since: Yoshi and F-Zero. Which I really can see happening

but say, banking on popularity alone, unfortunately I don't think that's likely
 

PeridotGX

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I've been thinking.

Blaziken is meant to be a Kick Boxer.

Making him Falcon's echo doesn't really make sense within that context; because Smash Falcon is best known for his PAWNCH!
As we've seen with Dark Samus, Echoes can have different animations. Change the Falcon Punch to the Chicken Kick and alter a few other animations and it works fine.
 

Iridium

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I mean, I've never seen it kill so early. When does Zelda's up throw KO Mewtwo in Smash 4, if anyone here can tell me?
 

MrRoidley

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Blaziken as a Captain Falcon echo reminds me of people that seriously suggested Ridley as an Charizard costume back in SSB4.
And people suggesting Shulk was an Ike clone based on the leaked ESRB screenshots
oh lord
 

Idon

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Why is Mewtwo so light anyway? In Pokemon, he weighs like 200 pounds!
Real reason: balance

My headcanon: Mewtwo's levitation and psychic energy decrease his weight so much, he takes hits much harder than pokemon of his weight class.
 
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Cosmic77

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You guys gotta think outside the box.
Feraligator as K Rool's echo.
I know you're joking, but literally every one of K.Rool's specials would look awkward as heck with Feraligator.

And what's he gonna use for the crown? Those red scales at the top of his head?

Why is Mewtwo so light anyway? In Pokemon, he weighs like 200 pounds!
The same reason as Rosalina I'd imagine. The ability to float makes him lightweight.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Why is Mewtwo so light anyway? In Pokemon, he weighs like 200 pounds!
I guess the same reason rosa is a lightweight when she's always a heavyweight in mario kart, which is to say that there is no reason other than balance.

They can't exactly have mewtwo be fast, powerful, have range and be a heavyweight.
 
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Wambo

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: King Hippo as a K.Rool Echo.

Hey, it'd be another "hero vs. villain" thing.
 
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I've been thinking.

Blaziken is meant to be a Kick Boxer.

Making him Falcon's echo doesn't really make sense within that context; because Smash Falcon is best known for his PAWNCH!
Except instead of ''Falcon PAWNCH!'' he'd just make this sound. (same for falcon kick, Up b 'YEESS' etc.)
 

PeridotGX

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Blaziken as a Captain Falcon echo reminds me of people that seriously suggested Ridley as an Charizard costume back in SSB4.
And people suggesting Shulk was an Ike clone based on the leaked ESRB screenshots
oh lord
It would work much better than those ideas. There are videos of Blaziken modelswaps in Smash 4 that look all-right, change the animations of Neutral B, Side Smash, and Dash and there you go it's perfect.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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And on a serious note . . .

https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-27-2018/QQAAZl.gif

Why is this a thing?
Zelda in every Smash game has had a fairly slow grab, and her moveset sets up for grabs rather poorly. She's not mobile, her aerials aren't built for pressure at all, and so much of what she does is laggy. A good question would be why her throws didn't kill particularly well in Smash 4; a lousy grab game isn't a weakness she needs and she lacks the inherent dynamics for good combo throws so a good kill throw seems really natural.

All those negative things I just said about Zelda, incidentally, are why I have so little faith in her even with the various obviously significant buffs. Zelda is so thoroughly garbage in all three of Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4, and I think her moveset may be the single most fundamentally badly designed moveset across all three games. She really does have a very large amount of room to be much better than she's ever been and still be a bad character, and it's just too easy for me to imagine that's exactly what we're going to see in Smash Ultimate.
 
D

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You guys gotta think outside the box.
Feraligator as K Rool's echo.
It would look awkward as hell but I would literally die if my favorite Pokemon ever got in.
I mean, I've never seen it kill so early. When does Zelda's up throw KO Mewtwo in Smash 4, if anyone here can tell me?
It's certainly buffed from 4 but it's not as strong as people are making it to be.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Zelda might always be terrible, but at the very least she will always be really fun to play.

:zeldamelee::zelda::4zelda::ultzelda:
 

Will

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: King Hippo as a K.Rool Echo.

Hey, it'd be another "hero vs. villain" thing.
King Hippo isn't even a villain?

The most of a "villain" Punch-Out has is Mr. Sandman.
 

ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing

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Other than the fact that everyone is trying to convince everyone else that their opinion is better when as far as I can tell everyone agrees, none of the current discussions have anything for me, So I wanted to ask, If you had 100% control over Smash ultimate charecters what would you do? Most notably, I would add Octoling skins for Inkling, while un-standardizing the amount of charecter skins, (some need more than 8 some don't), and addin Tails, Eggman, Shadow, Monika, and Cuphead as full charecters. Because I am a madman. I would also buff Wii Fit trainer to be the best charecter in the game, see previous statement.
 
D

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When did Isabelle start becoming so wanted? Just curious. Since they probably finalized the roster idea nearer to the beginning; maybe making some changes half-way through, I feel like any desire for Isabelle that wasn't really vocal before 2015-2016 probably wasn't seen and she won't be in; echo or otherwise.

I wasn't around the forums (at least not these ones) around the time of Smash Wii U, but the forums I was around never mentioned anything regarding Isabelle, so I feel like all her requests are recent; too recent to have been noticed.

King Hippo isn't even a villain?

The most of a "villain" Punch-Out has is Mr. Sandman.
He was one of the Villains in 'Captain N: Game Master', so as far as Nintendo is concerned, he is a villain.

Speaking of which, since he was also one of the Villains working with Mother Brain in Captain N; there's a chance our WTF character could be Eggplant Wizard from Kid Icarus.
 
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Llort A. Ton

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I've always liked the idea of Doc Louis as a Little Mac echo. Yeah, the proportions dont make sense at all, but he IS the guy that trains Little Mac and it would be funny to see him be a slower, stronger and a better air fighter than Mac himself. Oh, and his final smash could be him dropping his chocolate, unleashing the legendary golden leopard shirt and pummeling opponents with no mercy.
 
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