Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Apollo500]

Now here are your two options:
1. A guy or possibly a girl on a bike
2. Schoolgirl Phoenix Wright

Spoiler: or you can do the elusive option C

Sakurai says "**** it this is america's fan choice now"
View attachment 160059

Tbh I actually think Simon is our 'obligatory retro rep' this time. Not that I'm complaining, I love Castlevania and he (and Richter) looks like ridiculous fun to play as!

 

[CommanderZaktan]

The Pokemon anime is at least attempting to be accurate to the series.
Captain N is just

Let's not talk about it.

The comics are better.

 

[Luigi The President]

I will leave this here

https://nintendoeverything.com/yoshizumi-on-including-tales-characters-in-next-smash-bros-more/

Reminder of one of the costumes

Every single company in the world seems to want their character in Smash, don't see how this is relevant

 

[MSmariosonic]

Heavy Smoker Mega Man was like... Mega fascinating

 

[Noipoi]

Heavy Smoker Mega Man was like... Mega fascinating

Mega why?

 

[Will]

Tbh I actually think Simon is our 'obligatory retro rep' this time. Not that I'm complaining, I love Castlevania and he (and Richter) looks like ridiculous fun to play as!

well there's retro reps and then there's "surprise characters", which fit both of those bills.

 

[BeardyBennett]

Other than the fact that everyone is trying to convince everyone else that their opinion is better when as far as I can tell everyone agrees, none of the current discussions have anything for me, So I wanted to ask, If you had 100% control over Smash ultimate charecters what would you do? Most notably, I would add Octoling skins for Inkling, while un-standardizing the amount of charecter skins, (some need more than 8 some don't), and addin Tails, Eggman, Shadow, Monika, and Cuphead as full charecters. Because I am a madman. I would also buff Wii Fit trainer to be the best charecter in the game, see previous statement.

Crono, Geno, Ray Mk II, Phoenix Wright, Daroach, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid, Blaze, Banjo-Kazooie, Caeda, Paper Mario and Buzzwole are all in as unique newcomers. Zero is also added and removed from AT status.

Zant echoes Zelda, Isabelle as an echo, Shadow as an echo, Dixie and Funky as echoes, Black Shadow as an echo.

Ganondorf, my main, would be tweaked a little by adding a projectile for his standard B.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Black Shadow makes a lot of sense as an echo.
While it might be true that he is not on the same level as Chrom and/or Dark Samus, but consider this.
During the ballot, Black Shadow were voted for "Decloning Ganondorf and makes sense as a Falcon Clone"
Sakurai must have thought this as well, and seeing people suggesting this, at least then he is popping up on the radar, and might be of interest to Sakurai and his team, now that not only have Ganondorf got more decloned from Falcon, but people have been requesting Black Shadow for such a purpose. Sakurai might think of slaying two birds with one stone with Black Shadow being an echo requested from the Ballot days. Finally bringing a second F-Zero character, less effort for a full one, and the requested purpose since Brawl.

 

[Nap_]

Heavy Smoker Mega Man was like... Mega fascinating

How many crushed frogs they used for that voice?

 

[Will]

Black Shadow makes a lot of sense as an echo.
While it might be true that he is not on the same level as Chrom and/or Dark Samus, but consider this.
During the ballot, Black Shadow were voted for "Decloning Ganondorf and makes sense as a Falcon Clone"
Sakurai must have thought this as well, and seeing people suggesting this, at least then he is popping up on the radar, and might be of interest to Sakurai and his team, now that not only have Ganondorf got more decloned from Falcon, but people have been requesting Black Shadow for such a purpose. Sakurai might think of slaying two birds with one stone with Black Shadow being an echo requested from the Ballot days. Finally bringing a second F-Zero character, less effort for a full one, and the requested purpose since Brawl.

I don't care who it is I just want this move back.

 

[Idon]

Yeah right, a "decloned" Ganondorf as if the smashes being swapped out somehow makes him entirely different.
And as if said smashes would justify the inclusion of another echo just to have those 3 moves back.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I don't care who it is I just want this move back.

Fair that you don't care who it is. That's your opinion.

I want that move too, and I give a damn of who should have it.
I just want this

 

[Will]

Yeah right, a "decloned" Ganondorf as if the smashes being swapped out somehow makes him entirely different.
And as if said smashes would justify the inclusion of another echo just to have those 3 moves back.

It doesn't justify it, but if you can include it to spice up a preexisting moveset that has changed, and you want to include it, is there a reason to oppose it when Echoes are designed to be in the backburner rather than forefront attention?

The game is already rated, we could assume that most if not all unique characters are already fully implemented. I don't know if Echoes have the same placement, but it's a suggestion.

 

[Iridium]

yeah i just don’t see Sephiroth happening at all

I have a feeling Sakurai just straight up doesn’t like Katanas, which is also why Lyn’s an AT three times in a row — katanas are just too OP for Smash. I’d think, at least

Let's not lie to ourselves. Sephiroth would be the perfect boss addition to Smash. Just imagine Cloud vs. Sephiroth all over again . . . but in Smash.

Or, we could have Alfonzo work as his replacement!

 

[Luigi The President]

On another note, it's very refreshing to see some in-depth speculation on Echoes that isn't the same old schtick of "Isabelle, Ken, Shadow, n' Dixie" and is instead focusing on a relatively under-discussed character and his virtues, pros and cons.
Good on us gang!

 

[Kuon]

Other than the fact that everyone is trying to convince everyone else that their opinion is better when as far as I can tell everyone agrees, none of the current discussions have anything for me, So I wanted to ask, If you had 100% control over Smash ultimate charecters what would you do? Most notably, I would add Octoling skins for Inkling, while un-standardizing the amount of charecter skins, (some need more than 8 some don't), and addin Tails, Eggman, Shadow, Monika, and Cuphead as full charecters. Because I am a madman. I would also buff Wii Fit trainer to be the best charecter in the game, see previous statement.

I'd make all 72 fighters be replaced with 36 Ditto and 36 Diglett. A roster of 36 Ditto and 36 Diglett, and they would each be in different tiers. 72 tiers. Just kidding. I'd keep all the current characters and make Ashley playable, add Shantae, Isabelle, Viridi, female versions of Pit and Dark Pit, add Meta Crystal as a multiplayer stage, add some Senran Kagura characters, and The Idolmaster, too. Also, Pichu would be top tier.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Let's not lie to ourselves. Sephiroth would be the perfect boss addition to Smash. Just imagine Cloud vs. Sephiroth all over again . . . but in Smash.

Or, we could have Alfonzo work as his replacement!

I mean he could be an AT or boss. Or both, like Rathalos. But that’s about it

 

[BeardyBennett]

I'd make all 72 fighters be replaced with 36 Ditto and 36 Diglett. A roster of 36 Ditto and 36 Diglett, and they would each be in different tiers. 72 tiers. Just kidding. I'd keep all the current characters and make Ashley playable, add Shantae, Isabelle, Viridi, female versions of Pit and Dark Pit, add Meta Crystal as a multiplayer stage, add some Senran Kagura characters, and The Idolmaster, too. Also, Pichu would be top tier.

Oh yeah I would definitely have Shantae as playable too. Still hoping that somehow happens or she gets some kind of representation. Never played the games but she seems like a cool character and a great indie rep for Smash considering her games are largely only on Nintendo games.

 

[Iridium]

I don't care who it is I just want this move back.

Well, I want this back.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

During the ballot, Black Shadow were voted for "Decloning Ganondorf and makes sense as a Falcon Clone"

What are you talking about? Most people thought the ballot results would just be used for 3DS/Wii U DLC, so pretty much no one was voting for Black Shadow as a means to declone Ganondorf, because Ganondorf's moveset was already set in stone in the 3DS/Wii U game.

 

[ned_ballad]

The Black Bull is one of the fastest machines in F-Zero

If Black Shadow is added, he'll be a Captain Falcon clone. It makes no sense for him to move around slowly. The most he'd get from Ganondorf might be hid side special.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

So I wanted to ask, If you had 100% control over Smash ultimate charecters what would you do?

I would give everyone their favorite newcomers and i would insert Wobbuffet as a fighter. He would move incredibly slowly, all of his specials would be a super counter (that relflects even projectiles) and every other attack would be a taunt

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm wondering, given that the ballot was given under the pre-tense of it being Smash 4 focused, characters who were locked in a role may have been cost some voted. Waluigi and Ashley spring to mind.

I wonder if the reasons were read or just a good way to catch out bots/vote spammers.

 

[Kuon]

Oh yeah I would definitely have Shantae as playable too. Still hoping that somehow happens or she gets some kind of representation. Never played the games but she seems like a cool character and a great indie rep for Smash considering her games are largely only on Nintendo games.

I'd rather she not be in at all if she's not in the base game, since if she gets the AT treatment, it'll ruin her chances of being DLC in the future (if she's not in the base game).

 

[StormC]

Black Shadow would be fine but it would just feel wrong for him to be included before Samurai Goroh.

Considering the status of the F-Zero franchise, though, we will probably get a whole lot nothing.

 

[Will]

The Black Bull is one of the fastest machines in F-Zero

If Black Shadow is added, he'll be a Captain Falcon clone. It makes no sense for him to move around slowly. The most he'd get from Ganondorf might be hid side special.

BuT LoOk aT HiM! He'S So slOw bECaUsE hE's gOt a BiG bODy! Yeah I can agree on that, at least in the anime for reference he wasn't a slouch on movement. The man teleports and makes HAYAI?!'s out of people for ****s and giggles.

Black Knight is also more mobile than some believe.

People like to apply "real world physics" in a not very real world game.

 

[Luigi The President]

Black Shadow would be fine but it would just feel wrong for him to be included before Samurai Goroh.

Considering the status of the F-Zero franchise, though, we will probably get a whole lot nothing.

Not sure I can agree there...Goroh's real cool, but Black Shadow's pretty damn central. One of the main antagonists, especially in the anime.

 

[BeardyBennett]

Here's a fun game for you all.

Create a combo echo similar to Chrom. The proportions need to be similar to another character, but you can borrow attacks from other fighters regardless of proportions. Bonus points for cross-series efforts.

For example, Liquid Snake as a Snake echo. However, one of his specials will be the Duck Hunt one where he summons the outlaws. However, they will instead be guards from Shadow Moses Island. Instead of shouting "draw" they'll do the iconic "!" alert noise.

 

[StormC]

Not sure I can agree there...Goroh's real cool, but Black Shadow's pretty damn central. One of the main antagonists, especially in the anime.

Samurai Goroh is Captain Falcon's rival and has appeared since the beginning of the series, unlike Black Shadow - he even made it into the Melee intro.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

What are you talking about? Most people thought the ballot results would just be used for 3DS/Wii U DLC, so pretty much no one was voting for Black Shadow as a means to declone Ganondorf, because Ganondorf's moveset was already set in stone in the 3DS/Wii U game.

I don't like to admit this, but most people who voted Black Shadow did not just do it for "being the most notorious F-Zero villain"
They would have described it as being Melee Ganondorf. Remember how Smash 4 had costumizable moves, this would differ from normal Ganondorf in Smash 4 Wii U/3DS.

People voted Black Shadow to get another F-Zero representative, and with Goroh as AT and Blood Falcon being a colour swap, Black Shadow made sense. He has had popularity since Brawl. (not a high one, but been the popular choice for an F-Zero representative)

We knew that the DLC characters would not have costumizable moves around the Ballot, and with Ganon having some, Black Shadow did make sense at the time, even if we did not know it was going to be used for Smash Ultimate.

 

[Will]

For example, Liquid Snake as a Snake echo. However, one of his specials will be the Duck Hunt one where he summons the outlaws. However, they will instead be guards from Shadow Moses Island. Instead of shouting "draw" they'll do the iconic "!" alert noise.

Shadow with Mewtwo's teleport, easy peasy lemon squeezy why isn't he confirmed yet?

Samurai Goroh is Captain Falcon's rival and has appeared since the beginning of the series, unlike Black Shadow - he even made it into the Melee intro.

He isn't really his "rival" in any of the home console games, he just says that he is.

 

[Luigi The President]

Samurai Goroh is Captain Falcon's rival and has appeared since the beginning of the series, unlike Black Shadow - he even made it into the Melee intro.

Yeah, this makes sense tbh, still it'd be great to see one of the two. TBH? I'm not even an F-Zero fan necessarily, not a player of the games...just a TVTropes connoisseur. You probs know a whole lot more than me!

 

[SlickWylde]

Fair that you don't care who it is. That's your opinion.

I want that move too, and I give a damn of who should have it.
I just want this

View attachment 160060

You want Batman??

 

[Deleted member]

While we're at it, let's have EO stages, too. Lost Shinjuku as a regular multiplayer stage, with Waterfall Wood in the (probable) story mode with Narmer as a boss!

Lost Shinjuku has always been my idea for an EO stage.
But will Narmer constantly run away?
also you should check my thread

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

he would be so top tier you'd need a new tier just for him.
Ashle
Bayonetta would be nerfed to hell and back, but Waluigi would be so threatening no one would care.
the voice actors are trash.
but they're all bottom tier.

I left In everything you said I dissagree with

 

[MrRoidley]

The Black Bull is one of the fastest machines in F-Zero

If Black Shadow is added, he'll be a Captain Falcon clone. It makes no sense for him to move around slowly. The most he'd get from Ganondorf might be hid side special.

Exactly!!!!! People keep thinking of Black Shadow as a slow character but solely the fact he comes from F-Zero would make this completely absurd
Black Shadow as an Echo would have to be based on Captain Falcon almost 1:1, not Ganondorf

 

[Iridium]

As an editor at SmashWiki, I feel so bad knowing that they have to deal with vandals so much. Seriously, someone really tried to say Ridley's canon name is Jeffrey H. Ridleyson, with their username being JeffreyHRidleyson729.

Edit: Apparently, that was a reference to Arlo, but still.

 

[Will]

Exactly!!!!! People keep thinking of Black Shadow as a slow character but solely the fact he comes from F-Zero would make this completely absurd
Black Shadow as an Echo would have to be based on Captain Falcon almost 1:1, not Ganondorf

The speed of Falcon but the power of Ganondorf?

You're asking for top tier.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Black Shadow would be fine but it would just feel wrong for him to be included before Samurai Goroh.

Considering the status of the F-Zero franchise, though, we will probably get a whole lot nothing.

It's true that in an ideal timeline, Samurai Goroh would have been the second representative, at least with him being the first Assist Trophy for F-Zero (and shown in both Brawl & Smash 4)

It's true that Goroh is Falcon's true rival and had presence in the Smash series, ever since Melee.
And I'd be sad to see nothing for F-Zero in Ultimate. I did get K. Rool tho, so I'm very satisfied, but a second F-Zero contender has been just as close to my heart as K. Rool.

Yeah, this makes sense tbh, still it'd be great to see one of the two. TBH? I'm not even an F-Zero fan necessarily, not a player of the games...just a TVTropes connoisseur. You probs know a whole lot more than me!

Indeed, both would be pretty sick. I'm a big F-Zero fan (obviously), and I've been let down. Not just by Smash, but by Nintendo as a whole. First they shaft my favourite Nintendo villain out of his series for 10 years. And on top of that, my favourite Nintendo first party series left dormant since 2004 ...

Goroh is my favourite pilot in game, so I'm glad he is atleast appearing. Would want him playable though, but that did not happen. My next biggest chance for anything at all for my favourite series is an echo, and I gladley take it.

You want Batman??

Hell yeah man! Though, forgot Batman had those badass horns, and the Batmobile is looking pretty slick.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I saw someone mention Deathborn in some capacity but he would be the best thing for Sakurai to pull out of nowehere, everyone expects Black Shadow and he gets in but then boom, Deathborn kills him (as is tradition in Ultimate) and is also a fighter. He'd be so cool.

At most he'd probably just be a boss though... which is also cool.

Finally, somebody gets it