Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Captain Shwampy]

Remember when we were certain Decicueye was the "Greninja" of gen 7 lol

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

This right here is definitive proof that Star Fox: Assault is the best Star Fox game.

It's good to see that there exist other people who appreciate Star Fox: Assault. It has one of the best multiplayer modes of any GameCube game in my opinion, the best soundtrack (I would dress up as Jimmy Carter and dance like a chicken to get an Assault rendition of Sector X, my favorite song in the series, although this suffices), and an amazing story and message.

I actually enjoyed the pilot-on-foot sections and how there were different difficulty settings. If this game got a Switch port with Wi-Fi compatibility, we could say goodbye to "Fortnite."

Now on the topic of Smash, I think there should be a new Sauria stage with the "Thorntail Hollow" music from Star Fox Adventures. It's wishful thinking, but it would be something fresh.

 

[Shroob]

Remember when we were certain Decicueye was the "Greninja" of gen 7 lol

I, for one, welcome our bara-cat daddy overlords.

Bring on the DARKEST LARIAT Final Smash.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I really hope both forms of Samus get a makeover before release

 

[BrytonJ]

That's why I said "one of". He'd make two 2D characters.

they can be... they can be best friends... thats so nice...

Paper Mario is not a series I've ever been into but man would I love to see him in smash. To me the character feels so separate from regular mario that it feels like a no brainer in some ways.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't think VGC results would have any effect on Smash's roster, especially this late into development.

That said...where's Pachirisu?

I, for one, welcome our bara-cat daddy overlords.

Bring on the DARKEST LARIAT Final Smash.

Darkest Lariat would probably be a special attack. Malicious Moonsault would be the Final Smash.

 

[Shroob]

Speakin of Verg, regardless of what people say about "Echoes not being 'real' characters"

If the Verg 4 are all that's left, that's still 12 newcomers this game, which to me is a respectable number.


Yes, I count Echoes as Newcomers, don't @ me(Whatever that means)

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I don't think VGC results would have any effect on Smash's roster, especially this late into development.

Its more that GF made Incineroar competitively useful while Decidueye isnt

 

[KMDP]

I think it was for the Wii, actually. Here's a short article on it I was quickly able to find off google.

Hmm... This might have been what I was thinking of.

Also, finally added icons to my Sig. God, I didn't realize I had so many.

And this is only the ones who aren't disconfirmed.

 

[AlphaSSB]

AlphaSSB Titania and Fortuna probably have my favourite themes from Star Fox Zero, but I do love most of the soundtrack so any inclusion I am happy with.

I would honestly expect Return to Corneria or Corneria 1 from Zero, as you said.

I'm like you, I'd be happy to see any new tracks show up.

I'll just be slightly less happy if we get yet another Star Fox main theme. Three of the 17 tracks in Ultimate are all remixes/covers of the Star Fox 64 main theme. Pretty sure we have three variations of the Star Wolf theme as well, and as much as I love the Star Fox Zero rendition of it, I'd rather have something a bit more fresh. Just makes me a bit sad, since I know for a fact Star Fox has so much more to offer in terms of music.

 

[IronTed]

What is the Verg 4? I know he talked about Isabelle and Ken (although the latter as an echo), and a new Pokemon (really obvious), but what else has he claimed?

 

[Nethermoosen]

God, I just want Sakurai to confirm how many more characters we should expect. "A few" could be 2 or 6. Does "a few" include Echo fighters? Is he saying "a few" more to troll us (unlikely but you never know)?

I would be much much happier knowing HOW MANY more to expect, rather than WHO to expect in the next 3 months. It lets us manage expectations that much better.

A few, generally and most commonly, means 3. Although it is sometimes meant as “no less than three” or simply a small number more than two.

I doubt that’s helpful since “few” can mean “small number” in the vaguest sense, not to mention it’s a translation from Japanese. But, thought I’d chime in.

 

[Shroob]

What is the Verg 4? I know he talked about Isabelle and Ken (although the latter as an echo), and a new Pokemon (really obvious), but what else has he claimed?

Square Enix rep.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I really hope both forms of Samus get a makeover before release

They won't redesign any models this close to release. I'd pay good money for post-release skins though, I'd be ecstatic if we got SM or SR Samus.

 

[Luigi The President]

What is the Verg 4? I know he talked about Isabelle and Ken (although the latter as an echo), and a new Pokemon (really obvious), but what else has he claimed?

Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar, and SE rep.

 

[IronTed]

Square Enix rep.

So maybe Geno does have a chance this time around.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Remember when we were certain Decicueye was the "Greninja" of gen 7 lol

Look at that one Gothitelle but no Gardevoir, Gothitelle confirmed to be more important than Gardevoir

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Look at that one Gothitelle but no Gardevoir, Gothitelle confirmed to be more important than Gardevoir

uh...there is a gardevoir lower down

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Video about Shadow being an Echo Fighter in Ultimate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTrOLgP9Mlo

 

[ZephyrZ]

Its more that GF made Incineroar competitively useful while Decidueye isnt

I seriously doubt that was intentional, especially considering that they tend to prioritize single player balance over multiplayer.

 

[Noipoi]

Look at that one Gothitelle but no Gardevoir, Gothitelle confirmed to be more important than Gardevoir

As if you needed any confirmation.
Gothitelle is Jesus' favorite Pokemon.

 

[DraginHikari]

I just woke up and fam what are you on

Paper Mario
-has partners
-literally CANNOT do some of the moves Mario does, such as Mario's side special and down special
-would be incredibly unique by virtue of being one of the only 2D characters in the game
-could utilize badges alongside items in an entirely different manner from Mario, as he does in his own RPG series
-has numerous techniques involving folding, such as recovery by means of folding into an airplane
-hell, he could even use stickers to produce a huge variety of effects
-his hammer could be used in numerous ways, could even be thrown
-he also has the power of the stars from TTYD, all unique 8 of them
-again. has partners. how can you forget this. his partners could literally work for every one of his specials beautifully.

You're not seriously trying to tell me Paper Mario, who has multiple games worth of partners, techniques, special items and badges, hammers and gimmicks such as summoning the stars in TTYD, is less unique than Elma?

Hate to sound rude or disrespectful, but this is the most common complete misconception spread about Paper Mario and I don't see why it keeps getting spread. Do Samus and Zero Suit Samus fight nearly the same at ALL? No? So then why would Mario and Paper Mario?

Also, you yourself implied Elma would still be a sword user, nonetheless. Paper Mario isn't like any other character in Smash to date and I could debate for hours about this. Also, you're leaving out how not only does Paper Mario have an entirely unique moveset on his side, he has multiple beloved games and a frequent attendance on Nintendo consoles, having appeared on every generation since the Nintendo 64 with one major game per cycle. He also is one of the few Nintendo IP's of his scale to not have a character in Smash yet-I'd be willing to argue the IP on his scale. Alongside this, he's had over a decade to establish himself as a classic Nintendo character with immeasurable differences from Mario, both the character and the series.

But again, sorry if this is rude! Have a good day. Just please consider this before you jump to assumptions about Paper Mario, because I am willing to explain more in depth why these assumptions simply aren't true.

My short blurb was not intended to address every point possible and was only intended to state an overall opinion. I was not implying that Paper Mario could not be made as a unique character. What I was stating is Paper Mario is another version of Mario just like Dr. Mario is another version of Mario. That's going to be enough to put some barriers up in some people's mind regardless of how unique he can be made to be.

Because he cannot be echoed because his moveset cannot be fit into an existing character would mean he would need to be one of the original characters to be released. Personall,y I'm not a fan of the idea of creating a new character with a brand new moveset that is basically an alternate universe version of a character we already have. I'm generally fine with clone characters because generally your at least inputting another characters personality onto the character even if the moveset is mostly similarly. Even in Melee, I was never a big fan of the Whole Mario-Doctor Mario thing. Even in Ultimate I'm not a fan of the Link/Toon Link/Young Link dynamic but just sort of accept it as a result of the 'Everyone is here' thing. It merely personal preference on my part, which is why though I like the Paper Mario games, I have no real desire to see him in Smash.

If you want him in the game, that perfectly fine, you like whichever characters you like as we all do. I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree with my opinion nor would I expect anyone to like every character. Same goes for me, there are penetly of characters I simply do not care about one way or another and Paper Mario just happens to be one of them.

Yes, Elma is a sword user, but her particular dynamic and the dynamic of Xenoblade Chronicles X would likely shift her away from the archtype that those sword archtypes that Smash has currently. I'm not really interesting in laying that out in detail right now and I was more interested in clarifying my statements on Paper Mario anyway. There are better people equipped to take on that discussion.

 

[MBRedboy31]

uh...there is a gardevoir lower down

Still, it’s lower down, the point still stands

 

[Luigi The President]

My short blurb was not intended to address every point possible and was only intended to state an overall opinion. I was not implying that Paper Mario could not be made as a unique character. What I was stating is Paper Mario is another version of Mario just like Dr. Mario is another version of Mario. That's going to be enough to put some barriers up in some people's mind regardless of how unique he can be made to be.

Because he cannot be echoed because his moveset cannot be fit into an existing character would mean he would need to be one of the original characters to be released. Personall,y I'm not a fan of the idea of creating a new character with a brand new moveset that is basically an alternate universe version of a character we already have. I'm generally fine with clone characters because generally your at least inputting another characters personality onto the character even if the moveset is mostly similarly. Even in Melee, I was never a big fan of the Whole Mario-Doctor Mario thing. Even in Ultimate I'm not a fan of the Link/Toon Link/Young Link dynamic but just sort of accept it as a result of the 'Everyone is here' thing. It merely personal preference on my part, which is why though I like the Paper Mario games, I have no real desire to see him in Smash.

If you want him in the game, that perfectly fine, you like whichever characters you like as we all do. I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree with my opinion nor would I expect anyone to like every character. Same goes for me, there are penetly of characters I simply do not care about one way or another and Paper Mario just happens to be one of them.

Yes, Elma is a sword user, but her particular dynamic and the dynamic of Xenoblade Chronicles X would likely shift her away from the archtype that those sword archtypes that Smash has currently. I'm not really interesting in laying that out in detail right now and I was more interested in clarifying my statements on Paper Mario anyway. There are better people equipped to take on that discussion.

Thanks for responding and looking at my POV. Understandable, have a good day.

 

[KMDP]

ZephyrZ
Looked around a bit, this is what I was talking about. It's the same game as the one you were talking about.

It was going to be a second FE game on the Wii, and may or may not have had some kind of connection to Radiant Dawn.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Well we've been tempering our expectations for a while now.

Heck, remember when we thought there'd be only 10 characters max in Smash 4?

The thing that truly gets to me is that for Smash 4, development didn't start until AFTER KI: Uprising was completed, so March 2012. This means a 2 and half year dev cycle.
In this timeframe, Sakurai and team made a new engine and developed 2 games for 2 different systems. Sakurai then says to "not expect too many characters". He then reveals 16 Unique newcomers (discounting DLC and Dark Pit) throughout the games promotion and release.

For Smash Ultimate, the game actually has an even LONGER dev cycle (it will be nearly 3 years before the game goes gold), especially if the first proposal was completed Dec. 2015. On top of this, they are still working with Bamco and are using the engine from Smash 4, meaning they are actually saving time here to develop new content.


I'm not trying to say that it doesn't take a long time to bring back old characters, but since characters like Snake, Wolf, IC, Pichu and the rest were already made, it doesn't take nearly as long for them to bring them over, over making new characters. So far, we only have 4 unique characters. I'm just personally finding it hard to believe people only expect 3-4 more unique fighters. Smash Ultimate had a ton more to work with and practically has a longer time to sit in the oven.


Honestly, I'm personally banking on him shocking us again. I seriously think his comments about "not to expect too many more" is exactly that: To not expect them, but that doesn't mean there won't be many more. I personally think another "Everyone is Here!" trailer will happen, only this time, it will be a slew of new characters we haven't seen in the game yet, unique or echo fighter.

Yes, I have my expectations reserved. Yes, I can also expect there to be only 2 to 3 more fighters in this roster. Its just a personal gut feeling I have about his comments and the nature of how Sakurai likes to mess with his fans.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Video about Shadow being an Echo Fighter in Ultimate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTrOLgP9Mlo

I don't know why pepole think the Shadow won't be an echo fighter of Sonic

 

[Nethermoosen]

Thanks for responding and looking at my POV. Understandable, have a good day.

If it’s any consolation, from a mechanical point of view, it’s easy to see how unique he would be.

 

[kylexv]

There is literally only one reason Incineroar sees any play in VGC:

Intimidate, probably the most common ability in VGC because it lowers the attack stat of both opponents. Incineroar has it as its Hidden Ability, which wasn't available until earlier this year.

 

[Over9000BPM]

They won't redesign any models this close to release. I'd pay good money for post-release skins though, I'd be ecstatic if we got SM or SR Samus.

In an ideal world, I’d have SR Samus and Smash 4 ZSS. Smash Ultimate Samus looks bland and Smash Ultimate ZSS just looks plain wrong. It’s literally killing this game for me because those are the only characters I play.

 

[Nethermoosen]

The thing that truly gets to me is that for Smash 4, development didn't start until AFTER KI: Uprising was completed, so March 2012. This means a 2 and half year dev cycle.
In this timeframe, Sakurai and team made a new engine and developed 2 games for 2 different systems. Sakurai then says to "not expect too many characters". He then reveals 16 Unique newcomers (discounting DLC and Dark Pit) throughout the games promotion and release.

For Smash Ultimate, the game actually has an even LONGER dev cycle (it will be nearly 3 years before the game goes gold), especially if the first proposal was completed Dec. 2015. On top of this, they are still working with Bamco and are using the engine from Smash 4, meaning they are actually saving time here to develop new content.


I'm not trying to say that it doesn't take a long time to bring back old characters, but since characters like Snake, Wolf, IC, Pichu and the rest were already made, it doesn't take nearly as long for them to bring them over, over making new characters. So far, we only have 4 unique characters. I'm just personally finding it hard to believe people only expect 3-4 more unique fighters. Smash Ultimate had a ton more to work with and practically has a longer time to sit in the oven.


Honestly, I'm personally banking on him shocking us again. I seriously think his comments about "not to expect too many more" is exactly that: To not expect them, but that doesn't mean there won't be many more. I personally think another "Everyone is Here!" trailer will happen, only this time, it will be a slew of new characters we haven't seen in the game yet, unique or echo fighter.

Yes, I have my expectations reserved. Yes, I can also expect there to be only 2 to 3 more fighters in this roster. Its just a personal gut feeling I have about his comments and the nature of how Sakurai likes to mess with his fans.

And if we’re decent at pretend math, Smash 4+Smash 4=Smash 8.

Gonna be lit.

 

[Luigi The President]

If it’s any consolation, from a mechanical point of view, it’s easy to see how unique he would be.

Oh I've no doubt Sakurai recognizes that at least.
Just discouraging how many people in the fandom don't.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Speakin of Verg, regardless of what people say about "Echoes not being 'real' characters"

If the Verg 4 are all that's left, that's still 12 newcomers this game, which to me is a respectable number.


Yes, I count Echoes as Newcomers, don't @ me(Whatever that means)

I know you said don't @ you (i.e., reply), but I half agree. I definitely consider echoes to be newcomers, as they are new. The reason I and many others only consider unique characters in the count when speculating is because they're the ones that take a considerable amount of dev resources, since echoes don't take up slots.

I still think we have 8-9 more newcomers (yes, that includes echoes) given the blog structure, though it's not a definitive way to know for sure.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Oh I've no doubt Sakurai recognizes that at least.
Just discouraging how many people in the fandom don't.

Can’t blame them. They may not have been players. All they would know is that he can jump on people and he has hammers. I really liked your idea earlier. Using his allies as his specials. Canon and awesome.

 

[Luigi The President]

Can’t blame them. They may not have been players. All they would know is that he can jump on people and he has hammers. I really liked your idea earlier. Using his allies as his specials. Canon and awesome.

Yeah, only problem is perhaps it feeling a bit cluttered with all the partners outta nowhere. I have no doubt he'd use them somehow, though.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

I know you said don't @ you (i.e., reply), but I half agree. I definitely consider echoes to be newcomers, as they are new. The reason I and many others only consider unique characters in the count when speculating is because they're the ones that take a considerable amount of dev resources, since echoes don't take up slots.

I still think we have 8-9 more newcomers (yes, that includes echoes) given the blog structure, though it's not a definitive way to know for sure.

I am betting on 4 more Newcomers and 4 Echo Fighters

 

[Shroob]

I know you said don't @ you (i.e., reply), but I half agree. I definitely consider echoes to be newcomers, as they are new. The reason I and many others only consider unique characters in the count when speculating is because they're the ones that take a considerable amount of dev resources, since echoes don't take up slots.

I still think we have 8-9 more newcomers (yes, that includes echoes) given the blog structure, though it's not a definitive way to know for sure.

Website layouts shouldn't be taken as gospel, since they change depending on how big your screen is to be frank.

 

[KMDP]

The thing that truly gets to me is that for Smash 4, development didn't start until AFTER KI: Uprising was completed, so March 2012. This means a 2 and half year dev cycle.
In this timeframe, Sakurai and team made a new engine and developed 2 games for 2 different systems. Sakurai then says to "not expect too many characters". He then reveals 16 Unique newcomers (discounting DLC and Dark Pit) throughout the games promotion and release.

For Smash Ultimate, the game actually has an even LONGER dev cycle (it will be nearly 3 years before the game goes gold), especially if the first proposal was completed Dec. 2015. On top of this, they are still working with Bamco and are using the engine from Smash 4, meaning they are actually saving time here to develop new content.


I'm not trying to say that it doesn't take a long time to bring back old characters, but since characters like Snake, Wolf, IC, Pichu and the rest were already made, it doesn't take nearly as long for them to bring them over, over making new characters. So far, we only have 4 unique characters. I'm just personally finding it hard to believe people only expect 3-4 more unique fighters. Smash Ultimate had a ton more to work with and practically has a longer time to sit in the oven.

Honestly, I'm personally banking on him shocking us again. I seriously think his comments about "not to expect too many more" is exactly that: To not expect them, but that doesn't mean there won't be many more. I personally think another "Everyone is Here!" trailer will happen, only this time, it will be a slew of new characters we haven't seen in the game yet, unique or echo fighter.

Yes, I have my expectations reserved. Yes, I can also expect there to be only 2 to 3 more fighters in this roster. Its just a personal gut feeling I have about his comments and the nature of how Sakurai likes to mess with his fans.

I have said many-a-time that Sakurai has said "Don't expect too many newcomers" before (more than once, even).

Also, since we don't know what "too many" means, specifically; well, maybe Sakurai is aiming to deflate our expectation way down so that we're even more surprised when more characters than we were expecting come.

While Sakurai does like to mess with the fans, he only really ever does so in the short term.

Which might actually be why he waited so long to officially announce Ultimate, so that his "don't expect too many newcomers" comment has a shorter lifespan than Brawl and Sm4sh would have had.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Remember when we were certain Decicueye was the "Greninja" of gen 7 lol

Oh ****, Hiro Kagami and Kaito Kumon confirmed to become Assist Trophies

 

[Sigran101]

If any FE villain gets in, it's the Burger King himself. He was the only FE villain to break into the Top 100 of CYL as the 54th most popular character overall.

Don't know if this has been said, but he is actually 22nd overall since his vote is split between PoR version and RD version. If you combine them he is more popular than Owain, Eliwood, Anna, Both versions of Tiki, Female Robin, and even a version of Marth.