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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Over9000BPM

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:ultsamus::ultzss:return as playable characters with :ultridley:finally getting a chance and :ultdarksamus: becoming an echo (with everyone having extremely well done designs)

Plus...25 songs, 2 ATs, screw attack, and all but 2 Metroid stages are returning...no shafting here for anyone from Metroid

Maybe he meant for us to not expect too many unique fighters...either way he lies *unintentionally*
Samus and Zero Suit Samus don’t match their latest models, just lazy/butchered ports of their Smash 4 models.
 
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Luigi The President

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Why would he make a ballot only to have Bayonetta be the winner long in advance?

The Smash community needs to stop for a second and realize characters like Isaac and Dee aren't guarantees.

They have good odds, yes, but they're not icons.
On what planet is Bayo a gaming icon? I'll never understand his reasoning for Bayonetta, but I don't see how it's entirely relevant.

You don't have to be an "icon" to join Smash if you're a first party. Inklings and K. Rool aren't, they're just beloved by Nintendo fans. Nintendo, who develops and publishes the game and promotes it as being the flagship for their own system.
 

Rhus

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The Hidden Abilities? Ironically enough Incineroar stands out the least too as it's the only Alolan Starter without a unique hidden ability, Decidueye has Long Reach and Primarina has a very strange one that I don't see the point in
Liquid Voice is so bizarre. It's just an objectively worse -ate ability.
 

Omega Tyrant

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Even in Smash 4, R.O.B. has good grabs (fast, decent range)
Correction on that, ROB has the absolute worst grab reach in the game (the hitboxes don't even cover his entire arms), and it makes getting grabs really difficult without the aid of Gyro.

But otherwise yes I am optimistic about ROB in Ultimate, mainly as the air dodge revamp brings other characters' disadvantage state down closer to his (while making his nair a much more valuable tool relatively in disadvantage), and for making ROB's edgeguarding potentially really scary (while ROB didn't rely on air dodge much anyway for recovery and thus doesn't care as much about its tremendous nerf).
 
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Shroob

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On what planet is Bayo a gaming icon? I'll never understand his reasoning for Bayonetta, but I don't see how it's entirely relevant.

You don't have to be an "icon" to join Smash if you're a first party. Inklings and K. Rool aren't, they're just beloved by Nintendo fans. Nintendo, who develops and publishes the game and promotes it as being the flagship for their own system.
That's my point.


3rd party characters are a big deal in Smash, no matter how you slice it.


I had ZERO idea who Solid Snake was during Brawl, but I remember the hype having him in got people.



The short end of the answer is that someone like Heihachi is more recognizable than Isaac or Dee. I love Bandanna Waddle Dee and I want him, but if I'd compare him to someone like Crash Bandicoot, Heihachi or Chrono, I'd politely move aside for them in a heartbeat.
 

MalcolmBelmont

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Why would Elma get in over Isaac, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, or such?
Not trying to sound rude, and I hope you're satisfied with the roster regardless my friend, because I know how it feels to really hope for some characters.
But I'm not really following the logic here. Would love to discuss it a bit.
It's mostly due to Sakurai's love for the series as well as her being a fan favourite with an interesting moveset. All 3 of the Newcomers besides Inkling have been retro charcters. I feel that the remaining 2 1st Party Charcters may end up being from newer games - like Incineroar and Elma. Could be wrong though.
 
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DarkFalcon

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Just lazy/butchered ports of the Smash 4 models instead of proper SR redesigns
>Lazy.

How about we stop calling everything we don't like lazy? Samus Returns came out in late 2017. We don't know when Samus' Varia Suit concept art was finished. It could have been finalized after Smash Ultimate started development.
 

IronTed

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Bayonetta isn't the best example considering Nintendo basically saved the franchise and is now heavily associated with it. But the fact we're arguing that Smash is primarily about 1st party characters is quite baffling.
 

DarkFalcon

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Nothing about their design looks lazy. They look better than anything you could do.
While I agree with them not looking lazy, saying "can you do better?" is not a valid counterpoint. It's like going to a movie and not being allowed to criticize it because you can't make a film.
 

Cosmic77

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That's my point.


3rd party characters are a big deal in Smash, no matter how you slice it.


I had ZERO idea who Solid Snake was during Brawl, but I remember the hype having him in got people.



The short end of the answer is that someone like Heihachi is more recognizable than Isaac or Dee. I love Bandanna Waddle Dee and I want him, but if I'd compare him to someone like Crash Bandicoot, Heihachi or Chrono, I'd politely move aside for them in a heartbeat.
If you tried hard enough, you might be able to convince me that characters like Issac or Geno are far less recognizable than Bayonetta. But Bandana Waddle Dee? I doubt it.

If you know who Kirby is, then there's a good chance you might know what a generic Waddle Dee looks like. Add a bandana to that and you got BWD. At the very least, someone would be able to say something along the lines of, "Isn't he one of those things from the Kirby games?"

I'm not sure what Sakurai's reason was for choosing Bayo, but I can promise you that iconicness or recognizability had nothing to do with it.
 
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IronTed

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I mean no snark, but the SR point is weak, when the roster was finalized the game was still in early development. And I say this as someone who would absolutely prefer it to what we have now.
 

Over9000BPM

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>Lazy.

How about we stop calling everything we don't like lazy? Samus Returns came out in late 2017. We don't know when Samus' Varia Suit concept art was finished. It could have been finalized after Smash Ultimate started development.
Mario and Link got super up-to-date cutting edge designs. Lazy was harsh though, I apologise. It just breaks my heart seeing my two(one?) favourite characters with designs I don’t like when there’s better out there.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I think the word “interesting” when used in terms of character potential is one of the laziest descriptions ever. Like, if you tell me a character is “interesting” that tells me literally nothing about what makes them interesting.

I’ve at least thrown the idea of Incineroar being a grappler, others have mentioned usage of bulk up...I haven’t seen much of anything for the other Pokémon characters others than, well, “They’d be more interesting”.

I get it’s easier to just say something that we think carries meaning, but to propose a character is by default “more interesting” than another choice with no explanation is doing a huge disservice to people who might actually be interested in the character being referred to.

Hell, I really like Decidueye. I think Incineroar is just as interesting on a gameplay level though.
 
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Over9000BPM

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While I agree with them not looking lazy, saying "can you do better?" is not a valid counterpoint. It's like going to a movie and not being allowed to criticize it because you can't make a film.
Even so, I apologise for using that word. I’m just super disappointed by how Samus looks in Ultimate.
 
D

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Samus Returns Samus is pretty cool, but I honestly don't mind the designs they're currently using for Samus in Smash. That's just me, though.

Honestly, as a huge Metroid fan, I'm good with all it's gotten in Ultimate. My biggest complaint with Smash 4 was the odd omission of anything new from Metroid, which thankfully has been fixed here in Ultimate. I'd honestly go so far as to say the Metroid representation in Smash is perfect at this point.

I really can't complain, it's gotten so much this go around. Can't wait to play as all four Metroid characters on those beautiful stages with amazing remixes playing on them. :love:
 

Noipoi

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Samus Returns Samus is pretty cool, but I honestly don't mind the designs they're currently using for Samus in Smash. That's just me, though.

Honestly, as a huge Metroid fan, I'm good with all it's gotten in Ultimate. My biggest complaint with Smash 4 was the odd omission of anything new from Metroid, which thankfully has been fixed here in Ultimate. I'd honestly go so far as to say the Metroid representation in Smash is perfect at this point.

I really can't complain, it's gotten so much this go around. Can't wait to play as all four Metroid characters on those beautiful stages with amazing remixes playing on them. :love:
It's not perfect until The Baby is playable.
 

Idon

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My issue with Samus's design in recent years are those kneecaps.

Girl, why do you need spikes on your knees. I swear every Smash, they grow half an inch longer.
 

DarkFalcon

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Like I don’t even know what’s wrong with Samus’ design. They both look great.
She's using a modified Other M design for the Varia suit which bothers people. Though it's been modified so much it doesn't really feel like the Other M suit which was much sleeker. Ultimate's Samus model really doesn't resemble the Other M suit all that much. It has changed enough to not bother me. It's still sleek, but meatier.
 
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KMDP

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I think word “interesting” when used in terms of character potential is one of the laziest descriptions ever. Like, if you tell me a character is “interesting” that tell me literally nothing about what makes them interesting.

I’ve at least thrown the idea of Incineroar being a grappler, others have mentioned usage of bulk up...I haven’t seen much of anything for the other Pokémon characters others than, well, “They’d be more interesting”.

I get it’s easier to just say something that we think carries meaning, but to propose a character is by default “more interesting” than another choice with no explanation is doing a huge disservice to people who might actually be interested in the character being referred to.

He’ll, I really like Decidueye. I think Incineroar is just as interesting on a gameplay level though.
I'll give an example for you.

Isaac could be an interesting fighter, but... Interesting how?

Well, first we have the Move, Grab, Carry, Pound and Force Psynergy spells, which form Spirit Hands to perform utility actions.
We have Isaac's general Venus Psynergy (aka "Geomancy"), which allows Isaac to move rocks, generate Earthquakes, create spires and walls of Earth, and even cause the Planet's life energy to erupt out of the ground (the "Gaia" Psynergy series). It doesn't take much to think of what he could do in terms of terrain control with these kinds of powers. There are also plant based powers, mostly in the form of the Vine, Briar and Punji spells (which Isaac can't use natively, but when has that ever stopped a fighter in Smash? He can use them, which is more than we can say for :ultness: and :ultlucas:)
Part of the Venus Psynergy group is the Ragnarok spell series, which creates large Spirit Swords to attack enemies.

There are also the Djinn (and their related Summons), which allow Isaac to do even more, sometimes even outside of his normal Elemental capacity).
 

DarkFalcon

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My issue with Samus's design in recent years are those kneecaps.

Girl, why do you need spikes on your knees. I swear every Smash, they grow half an inch longer.
I would imagine anyone kneed by those spikes would be in a rough spot.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Although I don't like the Other M design it's one of my lesser concerns about her atm, so far from what we've seen of her she's absolutely awful and almost undisputably agreed to be the worst character in the demo. I pray that she'll get a lot of buffs before release, otherwise I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see her at the very bottom of the first tier list, the overall design of her kit is just really bad in so many ways.

For the record I do prefer ZSS' design in Ultimate over Smash 4, although it's not perfect by any means she at least doesn't look like a model cosplaying Samus anymore.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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On what planet is Bayo a gaming icon? I'll never understand his reasoning for Bayonetta, but I don't see how it's entirely relevant.

You don't have to be an "icon" to join Smash if you're a first party. Inklings and K. Rool aren't, they're just beloved by Nintendo fans. Nintendo, who develops and publishes the game and promotes it as being the flagship for their own system.
I still think it was bias on Nintendo/Platinum/Kamiya's part. That being said, I agree.

It's not perfect until The Baby is playable.
Not before Sylux gets in here, I'd hope.
 
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IronTed

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This thread has made me unironically support The Baby now. Not because of feelings, or having a literal metroid playable, oh no. Imagine the announcer saying "The Baby". That alone would make it all worth it.
 
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DarkFalcon

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This thread has made me unironically support The Baby now. Not because of feelings, or having a literal metroid playable, oh no. Imagine the announcer saying "The Baby". That alone would make it all worth it.
And when Samus fights, every taunt is replaced with her saying "The Baby". Every KO she says "The Baby". Her victory scream is her saying in a monotone voice "The Baby".
 

Enchess

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This thread has made me unironically support The Baby now. Not because of feelings, or having a literal metroid playable, oh no. Imagine the announcer saying "The Baby". That alone would make it all worth it.
I unironically support The Baby because sometimes no moveset potential is secretly the best moveset potential. What would it even do? Idk, and that's sorta exciting in a weird way.

Also throwing in the friendly reminder that Smash is really crappy as a crossover of gaming in general. The vast majority of the characters are known to most gamers as "that person in Smash". On the other hand, it's amazing as a Nintendo crossover. Viewing it as a Nintendo crossover is the glass half full stance.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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I've been thinking, with Simon, Mega Man and Pac-Man rocking retro designs (Conan Simon, Pie-eye PAc and one to one of 8-bit MM sprite) what other 3rd party icons of the NES era are we missing?

In my mind

Bub & Bob of Bubble Bobble
Jimmy Lee and Billy Lee aka Jimmy and Bimmy of Double Dragon
Sophia III of Blaster Master
Black Mage of Final Fantasy

Any I'm missing?
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Just lazy/butchered ports of the Smash 4 models instead of proper SR redesigns
but the ZSS we have currently is nearly identical to the samus returns one... in fact with her being more toned and having smaller breasts it's closer to the samus returns one moreso

the samus returns one and the other m one are practically the same thing
 
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Wyoming

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I've been thinking, with Simon, Mega Man and Pac-Man rocking retro designs (Conan Simon, Pie-eye PAc and one to one of 8-bit MM sprite) what other 3rd party icons of the NES era are we missing?

In my mind

Bub & Bob of Bubble Bobble
Jimmy Lee and Billy Lee aka Jimmy and Bimmy of Double Dragon
Sophia III of Blaster Master
Black Mage of Final Fantasy

Any I'm missing?
Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden would feel complete for that generation.
 
D

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And when Samus fights, every taunt is replaced with her saying "The Baby". Every KO she says "The Baby". Her victory scream is her saying in a monotone voice "The Baby".
All on a Persona 3 stage playing this in the background:

 

Guybrush20X6

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Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden would feel complete for that generation.
Just remembered one more on top of that, Arthur from Ghosts and Goblins/Ghouls and Ghosts.
 

Chrono.

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I've been thinking, with Simon, Mega Man and Pac-Man rocking retro designs (Conan Simon, Pie-eye PAc and one to one of 8-bit MM sprite) what other 3rd party icons of the NES era are we missing?

In my mind

Bub & Bob of Bubble Bobble
Jimmy Lee and Billy Lee aka Jimmy and Bimmy of Double Dragon
Sophia III of Blaster Master
Black Mage of Final Fantasy

Any I'm missing?
Ryu Hayabusa for sure.
 

Over9000BPM

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but the ZSS we have currently is nearly identical to the samus returns one... in fact with her being more toned and having smaller breasts it's closer to the samus returns one moreso

the samus returns one and the other m one are practically the same thing
The breasts are too small on the Ultimate model, nothing like ST and other M at all. It just looks so weird and not like her at all. :S
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Controversial question apparently - am I the only Metroid fan that likes Samus's Other M inspired look? I really like sleek designs and I always thought the traditional bulky Super Metroid Varia suit was ugly.

Also Brawl ZSS is superior because she didn't have ****ing high heels on. Literally who thought that was a good idea for a bad ass bounty hunter?

The breasts are too small on the Ultimate model, nothing like ST and other M at all. It just looks so weird and not like her at all. :S
Breast size is something I've never attributed to Samus and to say a change to that is "not like her" is demeaning and sexist.

If people don't want to talk about that then don't bring up her porportions as a feature of her design.
 
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