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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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DraginHikari

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They easily could have been jet boots. No heels necessary. Not saying it against you, I know you didn't design her lol.

But yeah made me really upset with Sakurai and anytime I see her I'm just like ugh why?
I am somewhat curious of the inspiration for them because that seems like some kind of random thing you'd see in female anime character design.

Samus has never had an unrealistic breast size. It's idealized sure (like almost every protagonist ever) but it's never been ridiculous.

This issue was that the Zero Suit in some games cupped the breasts in an unrealistic way that was really only done to tantalize the viewer.

Most people don't care or like that Samus is busty. Most people just don't like the oversexualized nature of the how her breasts were shown.

Now the majority of Metroid games are great with this admittedly.
Other M seemed like the weird one out as the Zero Suit design was change to kind of form around her chest in a way that her previous designs really didn't. Though given it was a Team Ninja design I guess it's not all that surprising.

Gameplay-based suspension of disbelief and alien creatures in a scifi game, respectively. What purpose would making Samus' Zero Suit unrealistic accomplish beyond needless fanservice?
I mean the Zero Suit itself in general doesn't seem skin tight as it seems more compressing as in to avoid having components of the suit rub up against her skin by the looks of it or at least keeping her body supported during rapid movement. Even her older design that were more 'swimsuit' like seemed like were design for support to keep her body from moving too much during higher movement without being overly heavy.
 

Enchess

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I just liked the escapism of the character. I feel like that’s been lost. It’s too much of a major, jarring change.
Um...what? Are you an ass kicking space bounty hunter who is also in perfect shape and has amazing hair? You must he if clothes with individual boob holders are what makes her escapist for you
 

Over9000BPM

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Um...what? Are you an *** kicking space bounty hunter who is also in perfect shape and has amazing hair? You must he if clothes with individual boob holders are what makes her escapist for you
She didn’t have boob socks in SSB4, that’s one of the reasons I liked that design.
 

KMDP

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[Sorry KMDP KMDP KMDP KMDP , Harvest Moon's a SNES game]
I know it is, I wasn't suggesting it to add to your list, I was just putting it out there (should have partitioned the comment).
Samus has never had an unrealistic breast size. It's idealized sure (like almost every protagonist ever) but it's never been ridiculous.

This issue was that the Zero Suit in some games cupped the breasts in an unrealistic way that was really only done to tantalize the viewer.

Most people don't care or like that Samus is busty. Most people just don't like the oversexualized nature of the how her breasts were shown.

Now the majority of Metroid games are great with this admittedly.
I want my non-practical body-suit bra cups, dangit!

Anyway, I agree with what you say, for the most part.
 

Enchess

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She didn’t have boob socks in SSB4, that’s one of the reasons I liked that design.
May have gotten mixed up a bit cause I've only been able to skim. Still confused what her boobs have to do with escapism when there's everything else about her character
 

RandomAce

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I mean I'm all for big boobs but do you see how toned she is? The loss of exaggerated boob went into her legs.
Samus’s design isn’t to be a ****ing Hollywood sex appealer for Christ sake, she was even used as a base model for Bayontta, BAYONETTA. Like seriously? She was never supposed to be potrayed like this and was one of the first changes to her. In fact, her legs are supposed to be buffed like this as it shows she’s supposed to be a super human athlete that is crazy fast and can jump to extreme heights.

Why are we even discussing this?
 

DraginHikari

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Digimon would be interesting if they made it in Smash. Though I don’t know if it’s anime or game first?
It was originally a Tamigotchi like digital pet toy.

Samus’s design isn’t to be a ****ing Hollywood sex appealer for Christ sake, she was even used as a base model for Bayontta, BAYONETTA. Like seriously? She was never supposed to be potrayed like this and was one of the first changes to her. In fact, her legs are supposed to be buffed like this as it shows she’s supposed to be a super human athlete that is crazy fast and can jump to extreme heights.

Why are we even discussing this?
Because character design and discussion is interesting.
 
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KMDP

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Digimon would be interesting if they made it in Smash. Though I don’t know if it’s anime or game first?
It's Game First. Technically it's in the same category as Mr. Game & Watch.
May have gotten mixed up a bit cause I've only been able to skim. Still confused what her boobs have to do with escapism when there's everything else about her character
People like Sexy Girls, and that's that.

It's why Lara Croft is who she is and not an Indiana Jones expy like she was going to be.
 

PlugMeister

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To be honest, if you never told me that ZSS's bust size was changed between Smash 4 and Ultimate, I would have never noticed.

Mainly because I really don't care.

Why are we even talking about this? It's beyond dumb.
 
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DraginHikari

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It's Game First. Technically it's in the same category as Mr. Game & Watch.

People like Sexy Girls, and that's that.

It's why Lara Croft is who she is and not an Indiana Jones expy like she was going to be.
This is true and that's why Samus appearance has kind of always been an interesting point of discussion. Since her default game appearance does not really reflect her actual gender at all to the point that it was a shock point in the original game. I think it's why Samus being over-sexualized does annoy people more then over-sexualization of other similar female characters. It's a interesting fact in the way the character is viewed.
 

DarkFalcon

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Samus’s design isn’t to be a ****ing Hollywood sex appealer for Christ sake, she was even used as a base model for Bayontta, BAYONETTA. Like seriously? She was never supposed to be potrayed like this and was one of the first changes to her. In fact, her legs are supposed to be buffed like this as it shows she’s supposed to be a super human athlete that is crazy fast and can jump to extreme heights.

Why are we even discussing this?
Did you reply to the wrong person?

I hate this topic because it always devolves into issues I absolutely despise talking about. I'm just here to talk about games man. Not about if a character is too sexualized. I feel like I'm not allowed to love Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for a similar reason. Some places I can't talk about it without some random guy writing an essay about why something is wrong and I should feel bad for liking it.
 

KMDP

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That. I just wanna point out that I don’t scrutinise the bodies of real people this way. I’m honestly a bit weirded out that this bothers me so much.
It's probably because Sm4sh Zamus is how you've come to see Samus as a character, and any major alterations to her design is jarring.

To other people, it's not necessarily just because Over9000BPM is just a perv who wants to see big boobs.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 

Dukeofdeath5

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To be honest, if you never told me that ZSS's bust size was changed between Smash 4 and Ultimate, I would have never noticed.

Mainly because I really don't care.

Why are we even talking about this? It's beyond dumb.
Because this is what dry spells do to people. Its tragic and horrifying.

Contact your local game developer today and donate so gamers won't be tormented by dry spells anylonger
 
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blackghost

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can we get a fake leak or something else to talk about besides the boob size of a videogame character? god forbid if shantae shows up in this game.
 

Over9000BPM

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This is true and that's why Samus appearance has kind of always been an interesting point of discussion. Since her default game appearance does not really reflect her actual gender at all to the point that it was a shock point in the original game. I think it's why Samus being over-sexualized does annoy people more then over-sexualization of other similar female characters. It's a interesting fact in the way the character is viewed.
I like both sides of her character. Like I said, I don’t think the Ultimate varia suit is nearly imposing enough.
 

DraginHikari

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I like both sides of her character. Like I said, I don’t think the Ultimate varia suit is nearly imposing enough.
I understand though I'm guessing that a side-effect of the 'Everyone is here" situation. Only character that absolutely needed drastic appearance changes were done and as much of the Smash 4 designs were kept when possible. Fully remodeling Samus' power suit was probably not on the highest list of priorities I would image.
 
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Over9000BPM

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It's probably because Sm4sh Zamus is how you've come to see Samus as a character, and any major alterations to her design is jarring.

To other people, it's not necessarily just because Over9000BPM is just a perv who wants to see big boobs.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I won’t pretend there isn’t that aspect. But I’d be just as jarred if Lucina suddenly had double D’s. Hell, I don’t even like that Sheik has looked unambiguously feminine since Brawl.
 

KMDP

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Contact your local game developer today and donate so gamers won't be tormented by dry spells anymore
*sappy, heart-string pulling music*
This is Masahiro Sakurai.

Every day he must walk 20 miles to his office, where he toils dawn till dusk in the Nintendo Mines to create the perfect Smash Bros. game. His hands are tired and he is never allowed a break.

Just five dollars a month will help poor Masahiro with food and water. Donate today by calling [0-800-HELP-SAKURAI] or text "HYPE" to this number.

Thank you.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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This is true and that's why Samus appearance has kind of always been an interesting point of discussion. Since her default game appearance does not really reflect her actual gender at all to the point that it was a shock point in the original game. I think it's why Samus being over-sexualized does annoy people more then over-sexualization of other similar female characters. It's a interesting fact in the way the character is viewed.
Samus has always been sexualized really though, in earlier metroid games seeing her with little clothes on was essentially a reward for beating the game faster, the whole thing is jarring to me cause it feels like it goes against what samus is as a character, like why is this badass bounty hunter wearing power armour suddenly in a bikini for absolutely no reason? it's just strange, and that sexualization has sort of stuck with her and perhaps even gotten worse over the years while other characters who were victims of it like lara croft have managed to move away from it.
 

RandomAce

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Did you reply to the wrong person?

I hate this topic because it always devolves into issues I absolutely despise talking about. I'm just here to talk about games man. Not about if a character is too sexualized. I feel like I'm not allowed to love Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for a similar reason. Some places I can't talk about it without some random guy writing an essay about why something is wrong and I should feel bad for liking it.
Haha, No.

Just my opinions but what’s done is done. It’s just that I find it sorta dumb when there are arguements about bust sizes and a character’s proportions likeness. I’m probably a hypocrite for saying this because I did make an arguement about it, but seriously I don’t think this is the place to be talking about this sorta stuff.

I guess talking about character designs is fine, but sometimes it can get more intense when it doesn’t need to be.
 
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D

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*sappy, heart-string pulling music*
This is Masahiro Sakurai.

Every day he must walk 20 miles to his office, where he toils dawn till dusk in the Nintendo Mines to create the perfect Smash Bros. game. His hands are tired and he is never allowed a break.

Just five dollars a month will help poor Masahiro with food and water. Donate today by calling [0-800-HELP-SAKURAI] or text "HYPE" to this number.

Thank you.
"In the aaaaaaaaaarms of the angels."
 

KMDP

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Samus has always been sexualized really though, in earlier metroid games seeing her with little clothes on was essentially a reward for beating the game faster, the whole thing is jarring to me cause it feels like it goes against what samus is as a character, like why is this badass bounty hunter wearing power armour suddenly in a bikini for absolutely no reason? it's just strange, and that sexualization has sort of stuck with her and perhaps even gotten worse over the years while other characters who were victims of it like lara croft have managed to move away from it.
"Victims", huh?

I've seen women (straight women) say they loved the original Tomb Raider games.

Because being a badass woman who also looks sexy is escapism. It doesn't matter if they were created "by men, for men".
I won’t pretend there isn’t that aspect. But I’d be just as jarred if Lucina suddenly had double D’s. Hell, I don’t even like that Sheik has looked unambiguously feminine since Brawl.
I prefer Sheik looking more feminine, at the very least, because it ends those stupid "Is Sheik Male?" discussions. But I do agree with you otherwise.
 
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Pakky

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So yeah, lots of bats around






Do you like this collection style for multiple icon uploads?

Let me know.
 
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KMDP

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"In the aaaaaaaaaarms of the angels."
I based that post on an advert I used to see on TV when I was at school, it was about a donkey. I think they even used that song.

I stopped seeing it when we started playing Brawl instead. XD
 

DraginHikari

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Samus has always been sexualized really though, in earlier metroid games seeing her with little clothes on was essentially a reward for beating the game faster, the whole thing is jarring to me cause it feels like it goes against what samus is as a character, like why is this badass bounty hunter wearing power armour suddenly in a bikini for absolutely no reason? it's just strange, and that sexualization has sort of stuck with her and perhaps even gotten worse over the years while other characters who were victims of it like lara croft have managed to move away from it.
It is kind of an odd thing because even her final appearance in Super Metroid, though sexualized is drawn in a way, especially in her stomach, as slightly muscular in a way alot of female character generally aren't. The move to the Zero Suit seemed like initially a way to give Samus something under the power suit that made some kind of sense in the context and attempt to reduce the sexulization somewhat. It is kind of an odd thing I'll admit as from game to game how far the sexulization is taken and whether something is too far or not is kind of subjective.

I still think it's kind of interesting since her main in game persona is completely absent from that entire issue during 95% of any given game.
 

KMDP

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It's only fair to talk about Snake's nerfed butt too.
As someone (I believe it was Vaanrose) said, Snake's butt isn't even anatomically correct as it is now. Leaving alone whether one considers it sexual.
 

Over9000BPM

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"Victims", huh?

I've seen women (straight women) say they loved the original Tomb Raider games.

Because being a badass woman who also looks sexy is escapism. It doesn't matter if they were created "by men, for men".

I prefer Sheik looking more feminine, at the very least, because it ends those stupid "Is Sheik Male?" discussions. But I do agree with you otherwise.
Oh yeah, I’d forgotten what a pain that was! Just illustrating that I’m mainly bothered by the sudden change that doesn’t seem precedented, because I’ve looked and Zamus look smaller in Ultimate than she does in Zero Mission, Other M, Samus Returns and every other Smash game.
 

DarkFalcon

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As someone (I believe it was Vaanrose) said, Snake's butt isn't even anatomically correct as it is now. Leaving alone whether one considers it sexual.
I was joking, but yea Snake's butt is busted. They need to restore to its former glory and then some.
 

Over9000BPM

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As someone (I believe it was Vaanrose) said, Snake's butt isn't even anatomically correct as it is now. Leaving alone whether one considers it sexual.
Even if it isn’t anatomically correct, it’s a consistent, much loved aspect of the character and female characters shouldn’t have to shoulder the responsibility of fanservice alone.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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"Victims", huh?

I've seen women (straight women) say they loved the original Tomb Raider games.

Because being a badass woman who also looks sexy is escapism. It doesn't matter if they were created "by men, for men".

I prefer Sheik looking more feminine, at the very least, because it ends those stupid "Is Sheik Male?" discussions. But I do agree with you otherwise.
That's fair, there's nothing wrong with still enjoying the character but it's worth acknowledging the unrealistic beauty standards that come with it and the effects that can have. And I wouldn't be annoyed by overtly sexualised female characters if the same were true for male characters but it's really not, put classic lara next to nathan drake and the difference is clear as day. It's just so obvious that these characters are designed for a male audience and by a male audience, I just wish the industry was more equal in that regard.
 

DarkFalcon

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It'd be great if we can change the topic tbh. This is one of my least favorite gaming discussions.
 

Over9000BPM

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That's fair, there's nothing wrong with still enjoying the character but it's worth acknowledging the unrealistic beauty standards that come with it and the effects that can have. And I wouldn't be annoyed by overtly sexualised female characters if the same were true for male characters but it's really not, put classic lara next to nathan drake and the difference is clear as day. It's just so obvious that these characters are designed for a male audience and by a male audience, I just wish the industry was more equal in that regard.
As much as I adored the curvy hotness of Smash 4 Zamus, I neither expect nor want real life women to look like that, because I understand the impracticalities and straight up discomfort that would cause for a real human being.
 
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