Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

besides it's not like nintendo doesn't have a bajillion dollars to spare

But Nintendo has the right to decide whether a specific transaction or license is a waste of money or a worthwhile investment.

 

[Noipoi]

Does anyone know why there are 2 Super Mario icons in the music section of the game? What if the 2nd icon is for Super Mario RPG?

Some believe it's for Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, but Mario rpg still counts as a mario spin off so who knows?

 

[DarkFalcon]

See I don't believe Sakurai actually changed his mind. I believe if Sakurai made the game without taking the feedback of the Samsh community into account Ridley would still be a boss and King K. Rool would be nowhere to be seen. I simply believe that Sakurai has decided to pull out all stops on the fan fair in this game despite his personal opinion

Reconsidering an idea because of fan support is still changing your mind. Sakurai knew Ridley was requested for years, commenting on the idea of playable Ridley twice before. It's not like there was some sudden surge of fan support that came out of nowhere caused him to reconsider now of all times. I'd argue the support actually died down a bit in comparison to prior games.

 

[Roberk]

I mean it took until Ultimate for Nintendo/Sakurai to go "huh, they really like this irrelevant SNES character" (K. Rool). I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to buy out Geno from Square Enix but they just don't because they think nobody cares.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Sakurai knew Ridley was requested for years, commenting on the idea of playable Ridley twice before. It's not like there was some sudden surge of fan support that caused him to reconsider. I'd argue the support actually died down a bit in comparison to prior games.

But that's exactly my point. Not until now does Sakurai put these character that he knew (because he must have known) were heavily requested for years, not because he changed his mind on whether or not they should be in the game, but because he's decided to give the fans what they want in this specific game. I mean yeah I guess you could technically say he's "changing his mind", but still, it's not like he's having a change of heart

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

Does anyone know why there are 2 Super Mario icons in the music section of the game? What if the 2nd icon is for Super Mario RPG?

The ongoing theory is that one is for Super Mario main series games, and other is for spin-off games (Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Sports etc.)

 

[DJ3DS]

What insane people would be ranking characters who have never been played publicly? R.O.B. isn't in the demo; it makes no sense for him to be bottom 10 already especially given that he doesn't have a negative history (he's not a bad character in either Brawl or 4, just not a top character either). It's even worse because R.O.B. managed to be at least somewhat above average in Brawl and 4 despite the focus of both metas ending up being unfavorable to him which to me suggests his kit has a lot more inherent upside than downside versus past results.

Dthrow to usmash is not a terrible argument, and yeah, that's about Ness bthrow kill ranges which would be fantastic since that's absolute top of the line kill throw potential, but grounding is pretty easy to mash out of in 4 and somehow I imagine something is going to work out just wrong for that to kill so easily. Definitely you're right that this is something to look out for and something very much worth a very early test when the game launches; I agree that this is the sort of thing that can make a top tier if it works out.

There's an entire thread in the subforum dedicated to early character impressions where multiple people have posted full tier list predictions already.

It's the first thing I plan to test when I unlock him in Ultimate! I have hopes for the Up Smash; it's not that slow and we've seen e.g. Villager burying into a smash attack before.

 

[DarkFalcon]

But that's exactly my point. Not until now does Sakurai put these character that he knew (because he must have known) were heavily requested for years, not because he changed his mind on whether or not they should be in the game, but because he's decided to give the fans what they want in this specific game. I mean yeah I guess you could technically say he's "changing his mind", but still, it's not like he's having a change of heart

And that's fine by me. Whether he still stands by what he said in years past or not is irrelevant. My boi is in the game and looks great.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Yeah tbh I don't care one way or another as long as the characters happen. Now if only someone would get into his ear about Rayman...

 

[KMDP]

You know, it would make some kind of sense if all the ballot characters were high-to-mid tier.

I mean, people specifically asked for them in droves. XD

 

[blackghost]

You know, it would make some kind of sense if all the ballot characters were high-to-mid tier.

I mean, people specifically asked for them in droves. XD

the previous ballot inclusions had little to no chance to be bad. king k and ridely have to defy all of smash competitive history to be even solid mid tier outside of some absurd grab confirm being discovered. we'll see moving forward but im not confident that will hold up at all. think chrome will be pretty bad as well.

 

[KMDP]

the previous ballot inclusions had little to no chance to be bad. king k and ridely have to defy all of smash competitive history to be even solid mid tier outside of some absurd grab confirm being discovered. we'll see moving forward but im not confident that will hold up at all. think chrome will be pretty bad as well.

Well, when I said the "Ballot Characters" I was talking more about the original fighters.

Echoes are tied to their original's placement (though Chrom and Dark Samus may be higher tier than Roy and Samus for mechanical reasons; lack of tipper and superior dodge roll mechanic, respectively).

Receptions to Ridley and K. Rool from competitive Smash players have been positive, for the most part. They look like they're going to be good characters, and it's not like a heavyweight hasn't been high tier before ().

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Iridium have you eaten that raw onion and drank from a lime yet?

 

[Noipoi]

Well, when I said the "Ballot Characters" I was talking more about the original fighters.

Echoes are tied to their original's placement (though Chrom and Dark Samus may be higher tier than Roy and Samus for mechanical reasons; lack of tipper and superior dodge roll mechanic, respectively).

Receptions to Ridley and K. Rool from competitive Smash players have been positive, for the most part. They look like they're going to be good characters, and it's not like a heavyweight hasn't been high tier before ().

Wait, Snake is a heavy weight? Why? He's a normal person not a giant fire breathing turtle. I thought he'd be a mid weight or something.

 

[Zinith]

It depends on if said heavyweights are floaty enough to not be combo food (like my boi)

 

[DarkFalcon]

For some reason I'm just watching Japanese reactions to the E3 direct. Not even the newer direct. The E3 one lol.

 

[KMDP]

Wait, Snake is a heavy weight? Why? He's a normal person not a giant fire breathing turtle. I thought he'd be a mid weight or something.

Snake is the third heaviest character in Brawl, after Bowser and DK (specifically, his weight value is 113, Bowser is 120, and DK is 116; in Smash 4 this'd make him the same weight as Ganondorf, though he might have gotten a weight boost like Bowser and DK, who went up to 130 and 122).

He's also 6th Place on the tier list; after Meta Knight, Ice Climbers, Olimar, Diddy Kong and Marth, in that order.

Presumably, Snake is heavy because of all the gear he carries (also it gels with his playstyle).

 

[DraginHikari]

For some reason I'm just watching Japanese reactions to the E3 direct. Not even the newer direct. The E3 one lol.

It is interesting because they seem to have different reactions to certain things that NA/EU players generally don't. I also notice they tend to use more avatars and things of that sort. I know Japan is a bit more private of a society so I wasn't sure if it was just that or not.

 

[Will]

Wait, Snake is a heavy weight? Why? He's a normal person not a giant fire breathing turtle. I thought he'd be a mid weight or something.

From what I recall, he was gonna be bigger and then Sakurai said "yeah humans arent supposed to be that big" so he got downgraded but his weight isn't. Just memory though, could be wrong.

 

[cothero]

From what I recall, he was gonna be bigger and then Sakurai said "yeah humans arent supposed to be that big" so he got downgraded but his weight isn't. Just memory though, could be wrong.

He carries a lot of gear too... Metal gear.

 

[Deleted member]

From what I recall, he was gonna be bigger and then Sakurai said "yeah humans arent supposed to be that big" so he got downgraded but his weight isn't. Just memory though, could be wrong.

I remember hearing something similar. And that when they downsized him, they forgot to adjust the weight, so he may be at midweight like he's supposed to be.

 

[Dee Dude]

All of us would die if Bubsy somehow got in. We would do a cage fight.

Bubsy will never happen.



Because Snake already took his obvious series symbol.

 

[DarkFalcon]

He carries a lot of gear to too... Metal gear.

Boo this man off the stage!

 

[KMDP]

Bubsy will never happen.



Because Snake already took his obvious series symbol.

Besides, there's only one character that should get the many comedic death animations, and he ain't a bobcat.

Boo this man off the stage!

TOMATOES, GETCHA TOMATOES HERE! RIPE AND JUICY. PERFECT FOR THROWING!

 

[Luigi The President]

With how cooperative Konami is, I'm shocked I don't see more talk of a Big Boss echo. Feels like I'm the only one asking for it.

 

[Iridium]

Iridium have you eaten that raw onion and drank from a lime yet?
View attachment 159931

Oh, uh, well, you see . . .

I may or may not have done so before the Direct, so . . . it tastes pretty bad. At least I didn't say peanuts (ugh)!

I seriously made that count so I wouldn't have to do that again.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

With how cooperative Konami is, I'm shocked I don't see more talk of a Big Boss echo. Feels like I'm the only one asking for it.

I feel stuff like Big Boss, James Mcloud, Raichu even are just naturally so similar to their bases that it'd be difficult to image difference in game play beyond altered numbers. They really could work as just alts. I think more people are just looking to see what they can get away with rather than whats the most obvious echo.

Like people saying Sepiroth Cloud (I have seen that if I recall)

 

[Dee Dude]

Besides, there's only one character that should get the many comedic death animations, and he ain't a bobcat.

...Yeah, ain’t following. Who?

 

[Icedragonadam]

I feel stuff like Big Boss, James Mcloud, Raichu even are just naturally so similar to their bases that it'd be difficult to image difference in game play beyond altered numbers. They really could work as just alts. I think more people are just looking to see what they can get away with rather than whats the most obvious echo.

Like people saying Sepiroth Cloud (I have seen that if I recall)

People have been suggesting Zack Fair who makes much more sense.

 

[KMDP]

With how cooperative Konami is, I'm shocked I don't see more talk of a Big Boss echo. Feels like I'm the only one asking for it.

Big Boss?

How about The Boss?

One could say Snake having a beard and camouflage alts already represents Big Boss (at least as Naked Snake), so the clearly physically different Boss would stand out more. (I think she's about the same height as Big Boss?)

Not to mention she's been on a Nintendo console (the 3DS), not even Raiden has in either form.

...Yeah, ain’t following. Who?

 

[Luigi The President]

Big Boss?

How about The Boss?

One could say Snake having a beard and camouflage alts already represents Boss, so the clearly physically different Boss would stand out more. (I think she's about the same height as Big Boss?)

Not to mention she's been on a Nintendo console (the 3DS), not even Raiden has in either form.

Or Big Boss because he's more iconic in almost every single way and is the star of numerous MGS games.
C'mon now. The Boss would be pretty cool though, would just feel morally wrong using her to fight LOL.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

People have been suggesting Zack Fair who makes much more sense.

Zack Fair does make a lot more sense, but my point is more people aren't so much looking for the most obvious ones (Big Boss and Zack already involve cloning) but looking for cool chars that could get through if you just change a few things like they did with D.Samus and Chrom (Dixie comes to mind)

 

[Will]

I feel stuff like Big Boss, James Mcloud, Raichu even are just naturally so similar to their bases that it'd be difficult to image difference in game play beyond altered numbers. They really could work as just alts. I think more people are just looking to see what they can get away with rather than whats the most obvious echo.

Like people saying Sepiroth Cloud (I have seen that if I recall)

So what you're saying is... MGS2 Raiden echo?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I remember hearing something similar. And that when they downsized him, they forgot to adjust the weight, so he may be at midweight like he's supposed to be.

Snake is still super heavy. Don't ever forgot. (players playing the demo conformed this.)

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

So what you're saying is... MGS2 Raiden echo?

I did see that, but if you're going to be that way then I would much rather take Big Boss, Boss, or anybody.

 

[KMDP]

Or Big Boss because he's more iconic in almost every single way and is the star of numerous MGS games.
C'mon now. The Boss would be pretty cool though, would just feel morally wrong using her to fight LOL.

♫ Sing... sing a song... sing out loud... sing out strong...
Sing of good things, not bad... Sing of happy, not sad...
Sing... sing a song... make it simple, to last your whole life long!
Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear...
Just sing... sing a song.
*trumpets*

Okay, with that out the way...

But Luigi, The Boss is a fighteeeer, and we already have Big Boss in the form of Snake's alts...!

Unless you mean Old Big Boss. Who'd be pretty cool, because that would be unique to Smash.

 

[cothero]

I did see that, but if you're going to be that way then I would much rather take Big Boss, Boss, or anybody.

Yeah, Big Boss (Naked Snake) would be the obvious call, Solid Snake is his clone, after all.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Yeah, Big Boss (Naked Snake) would be the obvious call, Solid Snake is his clone, after all.

Honestly this is all idiotic, there is only one clear choice when it comes to echos of Snake. Just needs a few tweaks.

 

[Deleted member]

So what you're saying is... MGS2 Raiden echo?

I would be completely okay with this.

 

[Will]

Yeah, Big Boss (Naked Snake) would be the obvious call, Solid Snake is his clone, after all.

WHO'S THE CLONE NOW DAD?