Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CosmicQuark]

Website layouts shouldn't be taken as gospel, since they change depending on how big your screen is to be frank.

Sorry not to have clarified (since I've given my thoughts on it a lot)--not the site layout, but based on how we've been getting an average of 3 character blog posts a week, it leaves room for 8-9 unannounced characters (which is why I say it's not definitive, because they can load up 6 in one week, or 1 in another).

 

[Noipoi]

Sakuari: Don't expect too many new characters

Everyone: We're getting five. tops.

Sakurai: Ok here's like 20, and 20 more for dlc.

As the days go on i'm starting to think Sakurai was just trying to get us to lower our expectations so we'd be even more hyped.
I don't really think we're getting 20, but 15 or 16 is pretty close to 20.

 

[PeridotGX]

Your reaction if Combusken was announced? I would be excited, seriously.

Combusken? As in Blaziken's Pre-Evolution? I'd be completely baffled.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Yeah, only problem is perhaps it feeling a bit cluttered with all the partners outta nowhere. I have no doubt he'd use them somehow, though.

I could see up b as Parakarry, side b as Kooper, down b at Lady Bow or Bombette. Neutral B is hammer throw. Down smash is quake hammer. Lots of different hammer moves and such. Not even close to all the possibilities.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Combusken? As in Blaziken's Pre-Evolution? I'd be completely baffled.

I’d be happy with that. Beware the Kung Fried Chicken Legs!!!

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Oh ****, Hiro Kagami and Kaito Kumon confirmed to become Assist Trophies

Based SHIN Dan the Game Master Man Kuroto AKA Kamen Rider Genm confirmed for smash

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Nope.

View attachment 159876
No heavy characters with beams. None at all.

In seriousness it may be worth beginning to consider ROB as a bit of a grappler in this new game. Sure, he has traded the super armour for a more potent zoning game instead, but given the potential strength of his new Down Throw it's likely that his game plan begins to revolve much more heavily around it.

It makes for a very weird juxtaposition of a character who simultaneously wants to be nowhere near you, but also close enough to land a grab.

This post was several hours back but it was also the most interesting post in the past several hours since it's actually about playing Smash. It was talking about how R.O.B.'s new down throw seems to suggest a bigger focus on grabs for the character and how a zoner/grappler makes sense. I'd point out that it is already kinda how R.O.B. works and makes a ton of sense within Smash gameplay dynamics even though it wouldn't work in a traditional fighter.

So in traditional fighters, grapplers are all about getting in super close and using the advantage state to make avoiding grabs hard. The grabs tend to do huge damage and are hard to defend against because they're unblockable, but because you can grab out of blockstun you usually need something like a knockdown to set them up and traditional fighting games love giving grabs very, very poor range to further make them just really hard to use in neutral. Smash is very different. In smash, grabs are uniquely one of the few options you can instantly use OoS and are on average faster than up smashes and up specials (the other options) which means one of the primary ways to land grabs are defensive, and since Smash has such a focus on mobility, grabs are also one of your primary mix-ups when approaching just in general (run up, they shield, you grab is not an uncommon interaction).

So let's talk about R.O.B.. This character's game starts with his basic zoning duality of laser -> gyro and gyro -> laser. He can shoot either one to cover the charge or deployment of the other, and in general, R.O.B. being given breathing room is always building his resources as he can easily be charging gyro or putting it in hand and his laser passively charges with time and very quickly at that. This means that most of the cast has an incentive to approach R.O.B., and R.O.B. has some good tilts and a wide sweeping nair to swat out a lot of natural approaches that would go around his projectiles. Using all of these in combination can easily create a situation in which your opponent either badly overextends or in which your opponent ends up stopping and shielding about a character length away; both situations are prime set-ups for a grab! Even in Smash 4, R.O.B. has good grabs (fast, decent range) and outstanding grab reward with his very far above average combo dthrow and pretty high end killing uthrow (fthrow and bthrow are less outstanding but still solid positioning throws with unusually fast animations that make them hard to properly DI). Changes to his dthrow to increase the reward (though it's unclear burying is really better than what it did before) are just further re-enforcing R.O.B.'s already existing gameplan. Zone them out, control the pace of the match, and use the limitations your space control imposes on their actions to land grabs and reap high rewards. I'll even share a low key secret that I don't even see some R.O.B. mains pick up on. Those mid-range situations wherein you highly threaten grab against defensive opponents? You know those are also heavy baits for spotdodges, and R.O.B. has a dual answer built in with both his massively ranged fsmash (that you can now charge forever to make the timing req easier in Ultimate!) and the special move no one loves: Arm Rotor.

R.O.B. isn't a notably strong character in 4 mostly because his disadvantage state is pretty bad. R.O.B. is a very good character in neutral and can capitalize well off hits, but once he loses exchanges and starts getting hit, he's a large character with average aerial mobility and low fall speed who has a bunch of really slow aerials that don't really protect him which means it's pretty easy for him to turn into juggle bait and for him to get stuck on the defense for really extended periods of time between ledge traps and landing traps. What we know of the new airdodge system is overall positive for R.O.B. as directional airdodges can let him escape a lot of stuff whereas intuition suggests his nair is probably big enough to be properly spaced to deal with them when he's on offense (R.O.B.'s nair is really a gargantuan move) and the lower landing lag on neutral airdodges can let him touch those feet down more safely and not just get landing trapped which can instantly turn a bad situation into a good one as he has a pretty incredible f3 dtilt. I actually can't think of anyone off the top of my head who likes the new airdodge system as we currently know it more than R.O.B.. The character has been kinda a sleeper as a competitive character for two games in a row, twice just barely below that quality level wherein characters start being taken really seriously, but he's not far off from being where he needs to be so he's definitely someone who I think it would be savvy to keep an eye out for since a few buffs here and there and a few good breaks in the overall meta in his favor and suddenly you have a deadly serious character.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Well, the fact that Samus lost her Dark Samus alt lead people to suspect her as a playable character, and look what happened.

Only making this pattern more helpful in figuring out who’s joining the fight

I actually forgot Bowser Jr., and I could have sworn Rosalina was already on the list, which is why I forgot her.

I added Bowser Jr. before you posted, but I didn't realise Rosalina was missing, so... thanks for that.

Fun fact, I had actually heard of Fire Emblem before Smash; I had a "gaming" magazine it was more of a DBZ, Pokémon & Digimon + Gaming magazine that talked about that hot new Game Boy Advance that was about to come out, and talked about the games that were gonna come with it.

You are one of the few people I know of who learned about Fire Emblem without Smash...you’ve accomplished something most people can never do

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Based SHIN Dan the Game Master Man Kuroto AKA Kamen Rider Genm confirmed for smash
View attachment 159891View attachment 159892View attachment 159893

Toei WOULD make them add him, the ********. After all, he tried to delete fangames and murder the creators too

 

[Gumzilla]

So how does Raichu as a Pikachu echo sound? That would be the last gen 1 rep I would want next to Beedrill

 

[Noipoi]

So how does Raichu as a Pikachu echo sound? That would be the last gen 1 rep I would want next to Beedrill

Raichu should've been Pikachu's echo, but Raichu gets no respect.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'm doing that age thing below because it looks fun! I'll put it in spoiler for thise who aren't interested. I'm splitting it by three categories those I knew very well (ala played their games), those I knew of, and those I literally didn't know. Also I'm ordering them in how much I cared about them being in right? Something like that.

Spoiler

64 (Age 5) //
Melee (Age 8) //
Brawl (Age 14)//
4 (Age 20)/ultbayonetta:/
Ultimate (Age 24) //

This was a really interesting way to look back at characters and how I felt about them. Had to add that middle category because I've been in smash speculation since Brawl and so I knew about characters a lot, but didn't realllllly know them.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Raichu should've been Pikachu's echo, but Raichu gets no respect.

Cause he isn’t cute enough for Smash (I mean look at Ridley...so ****ing adorable)

 

[Paperchampion23]

Sakuari: Don't expect too many new characters

Everyone: We're getting five. tops.

Sakurai: Ok here's like 20, and 20 more for dlc.

As the days go on i'm starting to think Sakurai was just trying to get us to lower our expectations so we'd be even more hyped.
I don't really think we're getting 20, but 15 or 16 is pretty close to 20.

This is why I think everyone is going to get "a little" something of what they want. Many of us and most people in the smash community have much of the same characters in their top 5 picks. This is why I feel like this time, Ballot picks are the priority. So no, you might not get your top pick (or you might!), but you probably will get something that will get you excited or pumped to play the game, as most of us share many of the most probable or most reasonable characters.

I don't think the game is called Smash "Ultimate" just because every veteran is back. I feel like its also called Ultimate for bigger, broader reason. It won't just have everyone return, but perhaps it also aims to please as many fans as it can, being the "Ultimate" game in most people's eyes.

Seriously, while it might FEEL like a pipedream, don't be surprised if Sakurai ups and reveals a crap ton of characters by the time the game releases. And yes, it is a dangerous feeling to latch on to, but this is precisely the feeling Sakurai wanted us to lower. So that way if it happens, he destroys all expectations for the game right then and there.

 

[SebasSancy]

Remember when we were certain Decicueye was the "Greninja" of gen 7 lol

The fourth one got a Gothitelle! Ha ha ha in the VGC she's pretty useful with shadow tag/trick. Oh I really want Gardevoir and Gothetelle, I hate that fake leak u.u

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Your reaction if Combusken was announced? I would be excited, seriously.

I wouldn't mind it. It'll be something different than expecting the final evolutions all the time

 

[PlugMeister]

3 more uniques and 4 more echoes would make this the greatest Smash ever for me, hands down.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

You think blue hair is a problem?

Don't even get me started on all of the blonds dude.
does pikachu and pichu count theyre technically blond right?

 

[RandomAce]

There is literally only one reason Incineroar sees any play in VGC:

Intimidate, probably the most common ability in VGC because it lowers the attack stat of both opponents. Incineroar has it as its Hidden Ability, which wasn't available until earlier this year.

Before this, all the starters were considered to be around the same level, and all three weren’t even used as much. There wasn’t a clear stand out.

Now they gave Incineroar intimidate which allowed it to be better than the others. But when did they give Incineroar that? Was it during USUM?

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

3 more uniques and 4 more echoes would make this the greatest Smash ever for me, hands down.

I feel that there is a good chance that we will get the same amount of newcomers and echoes

 

[DarkFalcon]

3 more uniques and 4 more echoes would make this the greatest Smash ever for me, hands down.

That's basically my prediction at this point. 3-4 more unique characters, 4 more echoes.

 

[kylexv]

Before this, all the starters were considered to be around the same level, and all three weren’t even used as much. There wasn’t a clear stand out.

Now they gave Incineroar intimidate which allowed it to be better than the others. But when did they give Incineroar that? Was it during USUM?

It's been coded in the game since Sun and Moon, but was not available until March of this year.

 

[KMDP]

You are one of the few people I know of who learned about Fire Emblem without Smash...you’ve accomplished something most people can never do

The rarest of breeds.

YAY, I'M SPECIAL~!

 

[Over9000BPM]

I have said many-a-time that Sakurai has said "Don't expect too many newcomers" before (more than once, even).

Also, since we don't know what "too many" means, specifically; well, maybe Sakurai is aiming to deflate our expectation way down so that we're even more surprised when more characters than we were expecting come.

While Sakurai does like to mess with the fans, he only really ever does so in the short term.

Which might actually be why he waited so long to officially announce Ultimate, so that his "don't expect too many newcomers" comment has a shorter lifespan than Brawl and Sm4sh would have had.

He’s messing with me by shafting Samus long term

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

That's basically my prediction at this point. 3-4 more unique characters, 4 more echoes.

Yeah makes the most sense especially if we are getting another Square and Namco Rep as Newcomers (not Echoes)

Newcomers:

-Pokemon Gen 7 Rep (Incineroar,Tapu Koko, Silvanny,Professor Kukui)
-First Party Nintendo Charcter (Issac/Elma/Skull Kid,etc)
-Third Party Square Charcter (Sora,Chrono,Geno)
-Third Party Namco Charcter (Jin,Nightmare,Llyold Irving,KOS-MOS)

Echo Fighters:

-Shadow (Echo of Sonic)
-Isabelle (Echo of Villager)
-Ken Masters (Echo of Ryu)
-Dixie Kong (Echo of Diddy Kong) or Kazuya Mishima (if Jin Kazama gets into the game)

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah makes the most sense especially if we are getting another Square and Namco Rep as Newcomers (not Echoes)

Doesn't make sense with that logic imo.
You're implying only one more unique first party newcomer?
Seems silly to me.

 

[RandomAce]

It's been coded in the game since Sun and Moon, but was not available until March of this year.

Though, why did they give to Incineroar this year? iS iT bECaUsE iTs In sMaSH!? (I’m kidding).

No seriously, it’s a little interesting that they made Incineroar the stand out of the three, although I guess they did it to give it more attention since Torrocat is probably going to evolve in the anime and stuff like that, and not specifically for Smash.

And also, there’s a lot of stuff that they are in the code that don’t get used until later as well.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Though, why did they give to Incineroar this year? iS iT bECaUsE iTs In sMaSH!? (I’m kidding).

No seriously, it’s a little interesting that they made Incineroar the stand out of the three, although I guess they did it to give it more attention since Torrocat is probably going to evolve in the anime and stuff like that, and not specifically for Smash.

And also, there’s a lot of stuff that they are in the code that don’t get used until later as well.

The Hidden Abilities? Ironically enough Incineroar stands out the least too as it's the only Alolan Starter without a unique hidden ability, Decidueye has Long Reach and Primarina has a very strange one that I don't see the point in

 

[Shroob]

Doesn't make sense with that logic imo.
You're implying only one more unique first party newcomer?
Seems silly to me.

I mean, with the Verg leak, we're at 1 1st party and 1 square. I 'personally' would also want a Namco rep, since they have a plethora of choices. Then you could drop one more 1st party like Skull Kid/Isaac.


Makes sense to me to be frank.

 

[DJ3DS]

This post was several hours back but it was also the most interesting post in the past several hours since it's actually about playing Smash. It was talking about how R.O.B.'s new down throw seems to suggest a bigger focus on grabs for the character and how a zoner/grappler makes sense. I'd point out that it is already kinda how R.O.B. works and makes a ton of sense within Smash gameplay dynamics even though it wouldn't work in a traditional fighter.

So in traditional fighters, grapplers are all about getting in super close and using the advantage state to make avoiding grabs hard. The grabs tend to do huge damage and are hard to defend against because they're unblockable, but because you can grab out of blockstun you usually need something like a knockdown to set them up and traditional fighting games love giving grabs very, very poor range to further make them just really hard to use in neutral. Smash is very different. In smash, grabs are uniquely one of the few options you can instantly use OoS and are on average faster than up smashes and up specials (the other options) which means one of the primary ways to land grabs are defensive, and since Smash has such a focus on mobility, grabs are also one of your primary mix-ups when approaching just in general (run up, they shield, you grab is not an uncommon interaction).

So let's talk about R.O.B.. This character's game starts with his basic zoning duality of laser -> gyro and gyro -> laser. He can shoot either one to cover the charge or deployment of the other, and in general, R.O.B. being given breathing room is always building his resources as he can easily be charging gyro or putting it in hand and his laser passively charges with time and very quickly at that. This means that most of the cast has an incentive to approach R.O.B., and R.O.B. has some good tilts and a wide sweeping nair to swat out a lot of natural approaches that would go around his projectiles. Using all of these in combination can easily create a situation in which your opponent either badly overextends or in which your opponent ends up stopping and shielding about a character length away; both situations are prime set-ups for a grab! Even in Smash 4, R.O.B. has good grabs (fast, decent range) and outstanding grab reward with his very far above average combo dthrow and pretty high end killing uthrow (fthrow and bthrow are less outstanding but still solid positioning throws with unusually fast animations that make them hard to properly DI). Changes to his dthrow to increase the reward (though it's unclear burying is really better than what it did before) are just further re-enforcing R.O.B.'s already existing gameplan. Zone them out, control the pace of the match, and use the limitations your space control imposes on their actions to land grabs and reap high rewards. I'll even share a low key secret that I don't even see some R.O.B. mains pick up on. Those mid-range situations wherein you highly threaten grab against defensive opponents? You know those are also heavy baits for spotdodges, and R.O.B. has a dual answer built in with both his massively ranged fsmash (that you can now charge forever to make the timing req easier in Ultimate!) and the special move no one loves: Arm Rotor.

R.O.B. isn't a notably strong character in 4 mostly because his disadvantage state is pretty bad. R.O.B. is a very good character in neutral and can capitalize well off hits, but once he loses exchanges and starts getting hit, he's a large character with average aerial mobility and low fall speed who has a bunch of really slow aerials that don't really protect him which means it's pretty easy for him to turn into juggle bait and for him to get stuck on the defense for really extended periods of time between ledge traps and landing traps. What we know of the new airdodge system is overall positive for R.O.B. as directional airdodges can let him escape a lot of stuff whereas intuition suggests his nair is probably big enough to be properly spaced to deal with them when he's on offense (R.O.B.'s nair is really a gargantuan move) and the lower landing lag on neutral airdodges can let him touch those feet down more safely and not just get landing trapped which can instantly turn a bad situation into a good one as he has a pretty incredible f3 dtilt. I actually can't think of anyone off the top of my head who likes the new airdodge system as we currently know it more than R.O.B.. The character has been kinda a sleeper as a competitive character for two games in a row, twice just barely below that quality level wherein characters start being taken really seriously, but he's not far off from being where he needs to be so he's definitely someone who I think it would be savvy to keep an eye out for since a few buffs here and there and a few good breaks in the overall meta in his favor and suddenly you have a deadly serious character.

This is an excellent analysis and maining the character there isn't really much that I disagree with.

I've long held that the airdodge system is a boon for ROB. Part of it is that it gives him some much needed horizontal aerial mobility, but his recovery is also probably the one it damages the least. His kit is also effective at sniping opponents who find themselves offstage. Other mechanical changes are also helpful - such as the return of glide tossing in the E3 build.

Other than that I've never felt his grab range was that good (I can link YT videos to exercise this point if necessary) and I think the burial effect of down throw is potentially being dangerously underrated. Provided they can't mash out near instantly, there is a LOT that can be done from it. I've spent some time labbing with Pitfalls just to see:

Down Throw -> Up Smash: this doesn't kill earlier than Beep Boop necessarily, but it does so more consistently - recall that Up Smash has a grounded hitbox to knock opponents into the main explosion, which unburies the opponent and ensures they take full knockback (in Smash 4). Assuming equal damage values it is also a higher damage output than Beep Boop. Uncharged Up Smash will kill Dedede at 125% from the centre of Battlefield in training mode - making down throw an effective kill throw on what I understand to be the character with the highest vertical survivability in the game at <120%. That's insane. For comparison, Mewtwos up throw doesn't kill in the same scenario until 174%.

Otherwise, the generous autocancel windows on ROBs N-Air and the good base knockback allows it to unbury opponents at relatively lower percents and combo into other things. The two most notable I've seen true combo are these:

1) N-Air -> SH F-Air (which leads to a potential jablock)
2) N-Air -> U-Tilt -> U-Air

Obviously these are labbed within Smash 4 but it's a good barometer for the sorts of things we could be seeing in Ultimate. This said, even if we get nothing more than Down Throw -> U-Smash, I still believe that's a noticeable buff overall.

- - - - -

The tl;dr is that I feel he is perhaps being overlooked somewhat in the build up to release (I've seen people suggest him as a bottom 10 character on the early impressions thread) but he is set to benefit from the mechanical changes as well as improvements that could give him the single strongest punish game off of a grab, and nerfs to several of the characters who are responsible for him struggling previously (notably Cloud and Bayonetta). As a long suffering ROB main in Smash 4 I'm very excited.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

He’s messing with me by shafting Samus long term

return as playable characters with finally getting a chance and becoming an echo (with everyone having extremely well done designs)

Plus...25 songs, 2 ATs, screw attack, and all but 2 Metroid stages are returning...no shafting here for anyone from Metroid

Sakuari: Don't expect too many new characters

Everyone: We're getting five. tops.

Sakurai: Ok here's like 20, and 20 more for dlc.

As the days go on i'm starting to think Sakurai was just trying to get us to lower our expectations so we'd be even more hyped.
I don't really think we're getting 20, but 15 or 16 is pretty close to 20.

Maybe he meant for us to not expect too many unique fighters...either way he lies *unintentionally*

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean, with the Verg leak, we're at 1 1st party and 1 square. I 'personally' would also want a Namco rep, since they have a plethora of choices. Then you could drop one more 1st party like Skull Kid/Isaac.


Makes sense to me to be frank.

So you're saying two unique first parties?
Kinda changes the equation.
Remember, this is Nintendo's all-stars, too. And a plethora of them are more requested than even the most requested third parties.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

I mean, with the Verg leak, we're at 1 1st party and 1 square. I 'personally' would also want a Namco rep, since they have a plethora of choices. Then you could drop one more 1st party like Skull Kid/Isaac.


Makes sense to me to be frank.

There is always a possibility the second rep from Namco be DLC but the Pokemon Rep also counts so we could get two more first party rep and two more third party reps for the non echo newcomers

 

[Shroob]

So you're saying two unique first parties?
Kinda changes the equation.
Remember, this is Nintendo's all-stars, too. And a plethora of them are more requested than even the most requested third parties.

"Nintendo's All-Stars" hasn't been a tag-line since Melee to be frank.

Smash is about 'gaming' as a whole.


So yes, I could see only 2 more unique 1st party characters(With one being Incineroar) if we got someone else like, Lloyd/Heihachi and Geno as well.

 

[RandomAce]

The Hidden Abilities? Ironically enough Incineroar stands out the least too as it's the only Alolan Starter without a unique hidden ability, Decidueye has Long Reach and Primarina has a very strange one that I don't see the point in

You know, I’ve never noticed that.

I only saw a play through Sun, so I didn’t know much about the game until I got UM. And even then, I wasn’t into competitive Pokémon until sorta now. Though, I guess they wanted Incineroar on equal footing with the other two instead. Though, coincidentally Incineroar’s Hidden Ability allowed to be used more than Decidueye and Primerina.

Though, SM is one of the games in a while where all the starters don’t really stand out from another and are all pretty good (with Incineroar getting hate at first and then getting popular afterward).

 

[Luigi The President]

"Nintendo's All-Stars" hasn't been a tag-line since Melee to be frank.

Smash is about 'gaming' as a whole.


So yes, I could see only 2 more unique 1st party characters(With one being Incineroar) if we got someone else like, Lloyd/Heihachi and Geno as well.

I don't really agree when over 50 Nintendo characters are included in comparison to the less than 10 third parties who all have some relation to Nintendo.
This just seems silly to me. Why would Sakurai prioritize characters like Lloyd and Heihachi over ones such as Isaac and Bandana Dee?

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

"Nintendo's All-Stars" hasn't been a tag-line since Melee to be frank.

Smash is about 'gaming' as a whole.


So yes, I could see only 2 more unique 1st party characters(With one being Incineroar) if we got someone else like, Lloyd/Heihachi and Geno as well.

If i were to guess:

Incineroar
Elma
Sora or Geno
Heihachi,Jin or Kazuya

I just not sure if Issac or Bannada Dee are popular enough. I feel like the remaining 1st party charcters will be from more recent games (not Rex/Spring Man as they will be DLC)

 

[kylexv]

So I guess I can join this Smash timeline thing that people are doing.

Smash 64: I wasn't born yet when it came out and I played it after Melee, so this one doesn't count.

Melee: First Smash Bros. game. Got it when I was very young. Recognized , since I had really only heard of Mario and Pokemon at that point. It was one of my first Gamcube games, but I owned Mario Kart: Double Dash!! and Pokemon Channel beforehand.

Brawl: At this point, I had played a lot more games, but I was still in elementary school when Brawl came out. It was the first game I ever got on launch day. Out of the newcomers, I recognized , since I either knew about or played a game they were in (Wario and Diddy Kong in various Mario games, Meta Knight and Dedede in Kirby Air Ride, Sonic in various Sonic games, Pokemon Trainer and Lucario from various Pokemon media, Olimar from Pikmin 2, and R.O.B. from Mario Kart DS).

Smash 4: The first game I actively speculated for (see my join date). Found these boards pretty close to E3 of 2013 while I was desperate for more info. So, I recognized every newcomer when they showed up except , who I really didn't care to notice existed even though I owned Wii Fit.

Ultimate: I knew I would be in college by the time a new Smash Bros. game came out, and that is what happened. Still participated in speculation, so I expected to know every newcomer when they showed up. And then was revealed and I was proven wrong.

 

[Luigi The President]

If i were to guess:

Incineroar
Elma
Geno
Heihachi,Jin or Kazuya

Why would Elma get in over Isaac, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, or such?
Not trying to sound rude, and I hope you're satisfied with the roster regardless my friend, because I know how it feels to really hope for some characters.
But I'm not really following the logic here. Would love to discuss it a bit.

 

[Shroob]

I don't really agree when over 50 Nintendo characters are included in comparison to the less than 10 third parties who all have some relation to Nintendo.
This just seems silly to me. Why would Sakurai prioritize characters like Lloyd and Heihachi over ones such as Isaac and Bandana Dee?

Why would he make a ballot only to have Bayonetta be the winner long in advance?

The Smash community needs to stop for a second and realize characters like Isaac and Dee aren't guarantees.

They have good odds, yes, but they're not icons.