Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsychoIncarnate]

We need to think of who can be an echo for Corrin

 

[Will]

We need to think of who can be an echo for Corrin

Tiki replaces Corrin and Corrin never comes back. best timeline

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Swear to God I used to think I was the only person on earth who even knew who The Black Knight was, let alone liked him. And now we're discussing if he'll be in Smash.

Times have changed, man. Fire Emblem used to be on nobody's radar at all.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Ike's still got his Black Knight alt color? Oof, that's the sound of my heart breaking!


Right now I'm watching a close friend play through PoR, and I've never been so hyped to see a character's house in my life. (BK's!)

It's ambiguous for Ike, while the alt match some colors of the BK alt in Smash 4. Others colors were changed for unknown reasons, here.

Notice how his cape & bandana aren't the same colors?

It doesn't confirm BK, but it doesn't end his case too imo.

 

[Sigran101]

Ike's still got his Black Knight alt color? Oof, that's the sound of my heart breaking!


Right now I'm watching a close friend play through PoR, and I've never been so hyped to see a character's house in my life. (BK's!)

Are you talking about the level where he enters the battle halfway in and one shots any character in his range? That level was awesome. I thought I could fight him my first time through. You can imagine how that went.

 

[Will]

Swear to God I used to think I was the only person on earth who even knew who The Black Knight was, let alone liked him. And now we're discussing if he'll be in Smash.

Times have changed, man. Fire Emblem used to be on nobody's radar at all.

It went from 2 characters to 7 characters within the span of a decade, man.
Think about that.

 

[Zinith]

Swear to God I used to think I was the only person on earth who even knew who The Black Knight was, let alone liked him. And now we're discussing if he'll be in Smash.

Times have changed, man. Fire Emblem used to be on nobody's radar at all.

I knew who he was beforehand, but it never really came up. Similar to Richter...

 

[Luigi The President]

Actually no, I don't think he does. But I don't see how the removal of it affects Black Knight's chances considering:

1. It doesn't confuse the two together unlike the Dark Samus alt.
2. Meta Ridley shows that there's a likelihood of the amount of alternate costumes increasing, meaning we haven't been shown the full list.

I'm just worried because Peach's Daisy costume was removed as well.
It makes me think even costumes kinda similar are removed. Though, Ike's Black Knight color just seems to be dark colored in general, not really a Black Knight color.

It's ambiguous for Ike, while the alt match some colors of the BK alt in Smash 4. Others colors were changed for unknown reasons, here.

Notice how his cape & bandana aren't the same colors?

It doesn't confirm BK, but it doesn't end his case too imo.

Good find...here's hoping he makes the cut.

 

[Will]

It's ambiguous for Ike, while the alt match some colors of the BK alt in Smash 4. Others colors were changed for unknown reasons, here.

Notice how his cape & bandana aren't the same colors?

It doesn't confirm BK, but it doesn't end his case too imo.

The last one is the closest that resembles BK.
It may be a sacrifice for how Robin/Corrin/Villager alternate between male/female for 4 of each gender, Ike has to use 4 for each incarnation, which includes one each for his default. That's probably how the Chrom alt got cut.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Swear to God I used to think I was the only person on earth who even knew who The Black Knight was, let alone liked him. And now we're discussing if he'll be in Smash.

Times have changed, man. Fire Emblem used to be on nobody's radar at all.

Hey, I know who he was!

I just never talked about him in Smash because he had no chance prior, but now, that might change....maybe.

 

[blackghost]

tonight Celica confirmed to win female character choose your legends 2 on the fire emblem heroes app.
hector won first in the other poll. each received roughly 30,000 votes

assuming cleica isnt dumped into an echo i can see the arguemtn for one more unique fe character to show up. i'd prefer black knight as a villain to continue the obvious patterns going on in this game. its more than just the rivals title it appears to be a design choice.
once is an incident: ridley
twice is a coincidence: dark samus
three times is a pattern: King k
4th is a hobby: black knight? sepiroth? baldr?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

We need to think of who can be an echo for Corrin

Kana...easily

Tiki replaces Corrin and Corrin never comes back. best timeline

Doesn’t sound like a best timeline for anyone

Swear to God I used to think I was the only person on earth who even knew who The Black Knight was, let alone liked him. And now we're discussing if he'll be in Smash.

Times have changed, man. Fire Emblem used to be on nobody's radar at all.

And now it’s becoming a big franchise for Nintendo (right behind and)

It's ambiguous for Ike, while the alt match some colors of the BK alt in Smash 4. Others colors were changed for unknown reasons, here.

Notice how his cape & bandana aren't the same colors?

It doesn't confirm BK, but it doesn't end his case too imo.

This reminds me how much perfection PoR Ike has in his looks compared to his RD design (through Ultimate atleast)

 

[DarkFalcon]

It's ambiguous for Ike, while the alt match some colors of the BK alt in Smash 4. Others colors were changed for unknown reasons, here.

Notice how his cape & bandana aren't the same colors?

It doesn't confirm BK, but it doesn't end his case too imo.

Pretty interesting. It's worthy of discussion after Samus losing her Dark Samus alt and Ike his Chrom alt happened. Though this is a bit more foggy since it's not as exact, and to play devil's advocate, characters losing alts doesn't mean that said character will make it. So it's an interesting conversation either way.

 

[Captain Fun]

I don't see how Black Knight would work on Ike's frame. He's way too bulky so he'd be a clipping nightmare if animations weren't changed, he doesn't use Aether, and he is both taller and heavier than Ike. I'd personally love to see him in the game, but Ike not having an echo doesn't mean he's all that likely.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Swear to God I used to think I was the only person on earth who even knew who The Black Knight was, let alone liked him. And now we're discussing if he'll be in Smash.

Times have changed, man. Fire Emblem used to be on nobody's radar at all.

No more Fire Emblem please. It should stay on nobody's radar for Ultimate especially since FE fans just got Chrom. If you want another FE character then at least trade in Corrin....please? I'm not sure how awkward it would be if FE went from 2 -> 8-9 characters in the span of 2 Smash entries. I am also not sure how I would react when the inevitable FE DLC character is announced. The real question is since they were okay with adding 2 FE characters as DLC; does that mean 2 for Ultimate? ANYTHING BUT A SWORD.

I lowkey wanted Chrom though and Marth looking like a Snacc.

 

[Will]

tonight Celica confirmed to win female character choose your legends 2 on the fire emblem heroes app.
hector won first in the other poll. each received roughly 30,000 votes

assuming cleica isnt dumped into an echo i can see the arguemtn for one more unique fe character to show up. i'd prefer black knight as a villain to continue the obvious patterns going on in this game. its more than just the rivals title it appears to be a design choice.
once is an incident: ridley
twice is a coincidence: dark samus
three times is a pattern: King k
4th is a hobby: black knight? sepiroth? baldr?

I doubt Hector nor Celica have a shot. Celica's relevancy only shot up from the remake. The only thing she got back then was a Brawl remix for a Gaiden level. I guarantee you once FE4 or FE5 gets a remake whenever, Celica will be dumped in favor or Sigurd or Leif. or gharnef idk

Also, let's not try to say it's a pattern for the entire game. Dark Samus was just an Echo put in because it's another Samus that you can give a Samus moveset to. Ridley and K. Rool were also heavily suggested in polls, he didn't add them just because they were antagonists.

Unless Black Knight was somehow really popular in the polls or Sakurai secretly liked him, I doubt his appearance. Did anyone here vote for him?

Doesn’t sound like a best timeline for anyone

The toughest decisions require the strongest of wills. into the trash it goes

he is both taller and heavier than Ike

Taller, maybe. Heavier? Depends on what you mean. Yeah he's got armor on but that doesn't mean he's slow. Also Sakurai doesn't have to be accurate to real-world applications of armor. It's like weighted clothing on Goku, you forget it's supposed to be heavy until they mention it.

 

[Luigi The President]

I don't see how Black Knight would work on Ike's frame. He's way too bulky so he'd be a clipping nightmare if animations weren't changed, he doesn't use Aether, and he is both taller and heavier than Ike. I'd personally love to see him in the game, but Ike not having an echo doesn't mean he's all that likely.

Animations could be changed, though, Dark Samus has incredibly unique animations.
Lucina is also now an Echo, meaning Echoes can have different heights then their base.
Up special could be changed to a teleport, as that's what Black Knight does with his warp powder.

I doubt Hector nor Celica have a shot. Celica's relevancy only shot up from the remake. The only thing she got back then was a Brawl remix for a Gaiden level. I guarantee you once FE4 or FE5 gets a remake whenever, Celica will be dumped in favor or Sigurd or Leif. or gharnef idk

Also, let's not try to say it's a pattern for the entire game. Dark Samus was just an Echo put in because it's another Samus that you can give a Samus moveset to. Ridley and K. Rool were also heavily suggested in polls, he didn't add them just because they were antagonists.

Unless Black Knight was somehow really popular in the polls or Sakurai secretly liked him, I doubt his appearance. Did anyone here vote for him?

I doubt Richter was too popular in the polls. In the Brawl days, Black Knight was a definite fan favorite; Skull Kid, who is now one of the most wanted, is barely seen in the top 15 of most Ballot polls hovering around the web.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Or the alternate solution happens and Black Knight is entirely unique.

 

[Astroworld]

How can it be even possible? Disappointed about some newcomers... ok but in the whole roster? Probably someone who didn't like any of the smash game's rosters! #everyDAMNoneishere

I guess being pissed at everything is threndy nowadays.

I love the newcomers so far. More Metroid representation finally with a character Sakurai himself said he couldn’t make work twice before. Two Castlevania reps which is one of those franchises that isn’t Nintendo exclusive but did start out on Nintendo and did have a big impact on their consoles much like Megaman.

And K. Rool man. I thought Nintendo threw him in the garbage can and was never gonna look back. So glad to see him back finally.

I guess it’s just that everyone has a different wishlist. I personally don’t care for a lot of the most requested fighters I see

 

[Will]

Animations could be changed, though, Dark Samus has incredibly unique animations.

By "incredibly unique" you mean "lacking what made Samus unique". or floating too, i guess

Or the alternate solution happens and Black Knight is entirely unique.

There's one way to start a riot.

 

[DarkFalcon]

There's one way to start a riot.

What can I say? I want to see the world burn.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The toughest decisions require the strongest of wills. into the trash it goes

Ok...so sacrifice every other FE character but Lucina and Male Robin, keeping Female Corrin in the process and also cutting Cloud alongside Little Mac

 

[Will]

Ok...so sacrifice every other FE character but Lucina and Male Robin, keeping Female Corrin in the process and also cutting Cloud alongside Little Mac

dude what

What can I say? I want to see the world burn.

At least it's not an Awakening character so people don't groan about it getting all the spotlight or whatever people like to say

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm not really anti Fire Emblem...I've never played it, but I love some of the characters in Smash :ultrobin. Even if we got another Fire Emblem, I'd be okay as long as they were unique (Azura?)

But...

I've gotta say, the Zelda neglect is really getting to me. Fire Emblem is nowhere near as big a franchise as Zelda, and yet it has one more character (and one more unique moveset) than one of Nintendo's flagships. Zelda keeps getting assists because 'they're a one-off!,' while Fire Emblem gets one-offs as playable. We really haven't gotten a new unique moveset since Melee, unless you want to count a few new moves for Link/Ganon in Ultimate.

...just a minor gripe.

 

[Knight Dude]

Ok...so sacrifice every other FE character but Lucina and Male Robin, keeping Female Corrin in the process and also cutting Cloud alongside Little Mac

Guess you aren't getting out of the garbage then.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm not really anti Fire Emblem...I've never played it, but I love some of the characters in Smash :ultrobin. Even if we got another Fire Emblem, I'd be okay as long as they were unique (Azura?)

But...

I've gotta say, the Zelda neglect is really getting to me. Fire Emblem is nowhere near as big a franchise as Zelda, and yet it has one more character (and one more unique moveset) than one of Nintendo's flagships. Zelda keeps getting assists because 'they're a one-off!,' while Fire Emblem gets one-offs as playable. We really haven't gotten a new unique moveset since Melee, unless you want to count a few new moves for Link/Ganon in Ultimate.

...just a minor gripe.

Yeah, totally understandable. I'd love to see Skull Kid in this, which feels likely, and we could get Impa as a Sheik Echo until perhaps she gets a revamp if needed next Smash. 2 fan-favorites right there.

 

[DevaAshera]

This argument applies to, like, half the roster. Tons of characters have limited move animations in their base games but have their abilities further fleshed out in Smash Brothers. And some have movesets built from nothing.

Not in the modern era and 3D games, which Minecraft is. The problem isn't a lack of moves, that can easily be remedied, it's that Steve doesn't have a jump or damage animation despite being able to jump and take damage. He also has a face that does not lend itself to expressions, being pixelated and static at all times. He would just be a very boring character to see in motion, regardless of his moveset. The only remedy for this would be to make him like the characters in the Telltale games' spin-off..which would them be a representative from that game and not Minecraft itself.

Beyond that, it depends on how Sakurai views Steve and Minecraft. He may have said he likes it, but he may not consider it a good fit for Smash.

And this is just my view, but it's still only a single game rather then a series..it could be a (massively successful) one hit wonder..will it still be an iconic game/character in the next 5-10 years?

Have we ever found out why Dr. Mario is not considered an echo fighter? He's barely more different from Mario than Dark Pit is from Pit.

My guess is because he was made pre-SSB4, which may have been when Sakurai made up the idea of Echo Fighters but hadn't yet implemented them as such or coined the term yet.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I'm super excited that Black Knight is even being discussed. I've wanted him since brawl and no one's ever even been willing to consider him until now from what I've seen.

Don't let anything or anyone stop you, even the adamance in people claiming overrepresentation. People should be allowed to support who they like, and play them to their heart's content should best come to pass.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'm not really anti Fire Emblem...I've never played it, but I love some of the characters in Smash :ultrobin. Even if we got another Fire Emblem, I'd be okay as long as they were unique (Azura?)

But...

I've gotta say, the Zelda neglect is really getting to me. Fire Emblem is nowhere near as big a franchise as Zelda, and yet it has one more character (and one more unique moveset) than one of Nintendo's flagships. Zelda keeps getting assists because 'they're a one-off!,' while Fire Emblem gets one-offs as playable. We really haven't gotten a new unique moveset since Melee, unless you want to count a few new moves for Link/Ganon in Ultimate.

...just a minor gripe.

I think it's because every game Fire Emblem has a TON of potential new fighters, though only the main lords are really in Smash. There's really a lot more to Fire Emblem than Smash let's on. Though I haven't played a lot of the games, there's tons of character variety, but Smash only has main lords with swords. Which doesn't personally bother me, but I can see why it'd paint a bad picture on the series.

 

[Will]

while Fire Emblem gets one-offs as playable.

wow okay

Fire Emblem starting with Roy is mostly about "who's the newest one to pick off the ol vine tree", regardless of if they get another game surrounding them or not. Some of them have good reception. Some are just Corrin. It's kinda like Pokemon, use the newest one available. Zelda doesn't have much that I know it could use in reoccurring characters that aren't Impa or Skull Kid (though the incarnation of Skull Kid in question is an entity from one game).

I think it's because every game Fire Emblem has a TON of potential new fighters, though only the main lords are really in Smash. There's really a lot more to Fire Emblem than Smash let's on. Though I haven't played a lot of the games, there's tons of character variety, but Smash only has main lords with swords. Which doesn't personally bother me, but I can see why it'd paint a bad picture on the series.

This. Robin and Corrin are a step in the right direction but as long as people see a sword people will freak. I'm glad the game got recognition in the form of an item though. I wanted the Devil Axe, but the Killing Edge is good too.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I love the newcomers so far. More Metroid representation finally with a character Sakurai himself said he couldn’t make work twice before. Two Castlevania reps which is one of those franchises that isn’t Nintendo exclusive but did start out on Nintendo and did have a big impact on their consoles much like Megaman.

And K. Rool man. I thought Nintendo threw him in the garbage can and was never gonna look back. So glad to see him back finally.

I guess it’s just that everyone has a different wishlist. I personally don’t care for a lot of the most requested fighters I see

I totally agree. The roster and the newcomers are in-sane! I feel like i'm about to create a blackhole with that much density of hype inside me!

The thing is (here comes your daily dose of buddhism) people should not ruin the joy of what they have with the desire of what they haven't, In smash like in life. Most of the people here understand that. People requests some newcomers but it's not like they're going to boycott the game if their favorite isn't there.

That's just spoiled child behavior, like Sakurai was working only for them... anyway i won't let that bring down the hype! Over my dead body.

 

[Knight Dude]

Since I'm not too into Fire Emblem, I don't feel excited for them getting anymore characters, outside of the Black Knight since he's pretty cool.

But I understand why a ton of people don't like them now because there's 4 characters that have a heavy basis on Marth's moveset. And two of the unique characters, Ike and Corrin still have Counters. It's like people who don't like too many shotos in Street Fighter, or the 4 1/2 Goku's in DBFZ (Normal, SS1, SSB, SSR Goku Black, Vegito), or the multicolored Ninjas in Mortal Kombat.

Couple this with the fact that Fire Emblem, even with as popular as it is now, is still at best a B-tier Nintendo series, is what ticks people off. Whether that's fair or not is a different question altogether though.

 

[DarkFalcon]

You can make an entire Smash roster full of Fire Emblem. There's so many options. It's easy to see why it gets so many characters. Though the next FE rep (which is inevitable IMO) I hope uses a Spear or Axe. I only got into the series with Awakening so I don't really know a lot of old characters.

Though as I mentioned earlier I'd take Black Knight even though he has a sword. Mainly because he looks cool as ****.

 

[Will]

You can make an entire Smash roster full of Fire Emblem.

How many of them are clones?

 

[DarkFalcon]

How many of them are clones?

20. 10 of them are Marth clones.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Honestly, Smash 4 has the most disappointing roster of all Smash games for me when it came out. DLC literally saved the roster for me with Mewtwo, Ryu, Cloud, Bayo, or maybe it was because most of the newcomers ultgreninja: felt underwhelming when compared to . Even now those newcomers are non-existent in competitive play for the most barring Duck Hunt who only has a Japan player repping him and even has Multiple weaknesses such as abysmal KO power and very bad off-stage recovery. Kameme Mega Man fell off and he uses secondary now, everyone else doesn't even make a splash anymore. DLC also helped in further making them look underwhelming thanks to having solid normals/buttons, combos.
As someone who is invested in competitive Smash and analysis; watching the newcomers pretty much be obscure was disappointing. Funny how is the only base newcomer that made Top Tier and stayed that way even with the advent of DLC/patches

Note - Greninja was very good in 3ds. However 3ds is not optimal META and thus was disregarded. Smash WII U grennja was never able to garner recognition as a tourney threat. He might have made results here and there; but not consistent.

 

[Noipoi]

everyone else doesn't even make a splash anymore.

Greninja does.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Greninja does.

Look at my updated post.

 

[RandomAce]

Got a question about your favorite fighting game or the competitive community? Looking for tips on learning a new fighting game? Ask below & you might hear an answer in the next episode of #NintendoPower Podcast, featuring fighting game veterans JC, from Treehouse, & @toph_bbq! pic.twitter.com/mBQmqohwy5

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) August 20, 2018

This might not hint at a newcomer reveal, but the there is going to be a podcast specific for Smash Ultimate soon and their fighting games.

It seems they’re going into a more gameplay focus and how the chracaters play and feel in battles and all of that stuff with a couple of Smash veterans and answering questions about the game or something to that extent.

There didn’t show when they it will go live though, but I’m expecting it to be at Gamescon since it’s close and is a pretty big gaming convention after all.

 

[Luigi The President]

Say, any reason to expect a reveal at Gamescon?