Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Look at my updated post.

Spoiler

it's a reference to Greninja's reveal trailer, "Greninja makes a splash!"

 

[MBRedboy31]

Personally, I have no interest in playing FE, but I wouldn’t mind seeing another rep for it such as Black Knight, TBH, there’s a lot of cool designs in that series. Some variety in weapon types could be nice but it isn’t necessary.

(One thing of note is that the idea of a spear wielder has lost much of its uniqueness due to the Belmonts, though. The thing about a spear is that more of its attacks are thrusts, which have high forward range but poor range to the sides... which is just what the Belmonts’ whips do. This isn’t to say a spear wielder’s moveset wouldn’t be unique, but it did lose much of its pure inherent hitbox uniqueness and so has to rely on the different visuals of the fighting style.)

 

[NessSaysOkay]

The next episode of the #NintendoPower Podcast will be focused on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and will feature fighting game veterans, JC from the Treehouse, & @toph_bbq. https://t.co/vevPZ7dgLw

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) August 20, 2018

This might not hint at a newcomer reveal, but the there is going to be a podcast specific for Smash Ultimate soon.

It seems where going into a more gameplay focus and how the chracaters play in battles and all of that stuff with fighting game veterans and answering questions about the game or something to that extent.

There didn’t show when they it will go live though, but I’m expecting it to be at Gamescon since it’s close and is a pretty big gaming convention after all.

Only the fan account tweet claims it's smash dedicated, as far as Nintendo says it might just be fighting games in general

 

[RandomAce]

Only the fan account tweet claims it's smash dedicated, as far as Nintendo says it might just befighting game sin general

Oh, I thought it was the Nintendo VS account...

I just realized how similar they look. Imma fix it.

 

[Will]

Honestly, Smash 4 has the most disappointing roster of all Smash games for me when it came out. DLC literally saved the roster for me with Mewtwo, Ryu, Cloud, Bayo, or maybe it was because most of the newcomers ultgreninja: felt underwhelming when compared to . Even now those newcomers are non-existent in competitive play for the most barring Duck Hunt who only has a Japan player repping him and even has Multiple weaknesses such as abysmal KO power and very bad off-stage recovery. Kameme Mega Man fell off and he uses secondary now, everyone else doesn't even make a splash anymore. DLC also helped in further making them look underwhelming thanks to having solid normals/buttons, combos.
As someone who is invested in competitive Smash and analysis; watching the newcomers pretty much be obscure was disappointing. Funny how is the only base newcomer that made Top Tier and stayed that way even with the advent of DLC/patches

Note - Greninja was very good in 3ds. However 3ds is not optimal META and thus was disregarded. Smash WII U grennja was never able to garner recognition as a tourney threat. He might have made results here and there; but not consistent.

Little Mac was pretty high in the original release of 3DS as well.

I don't expect Ridley or definitely K. Rool to be bringing in heat, but Simon/Richter's pure range and Chrom being just Roy but better can change things.

 

[blackghost]

I doubt Hector nor Celica have a shot. Celica's relevancy only shot up from the remake. The only thing she got back then was a Brawl remix for a Gaiden level. I guarantee you once FE4 or FE5 gets a remake whenever, Celica will be dumped in favor or Sigurd or Leif. or gharnef idk

Also, let's not try to say it's a pattern for the entire game. Dark Samus was just an Echo put in because it's another Samus that you can give a Samus moveset to. Ridley and K. Rool were also heavily suggested in polls, he didn't add them just because they were antagonists.

Unless Black Knight was somehow really popular in the polls or Sakurai secretly liked him, I doubt his appearance. Did anyone here vote for him?


Taller, maybe. Heavier? Depends on what you mean. Yeah he's got armor on but that doesn't mean he's slow. Also Sakurai doesn't have to be accurate to real-world applications of armor. It's like weighted clothing on Goku, you forget it's supposed to be heavy until they mention it.

when you talk to the ACTUAL FE fanbase (not the smash fanbase) they dont feel FE has been done very well in smash. between characters they dont really care for (roy, somewhat corrin, and kamui), the place lyn has in smash, and the replication of marth AGAIN its not what they want at all. Black knight is an exceptionally popular character. the FE fanbase is heavily divided on characters and games. he's the rare character that they are unified on. If you are doubting hector popularity you really just havent looked into the fanbase.

also ifyou've read the past few pages d. samus inclusion while nice isnt particularly accurate. to me it feels like they wanted her in the base game for story.

here we go again with this argument: characters are added for more than one reason in a story mode which most people believe is coming king k, dark samus, and ridely can plan story roles much more than many other fans suggests due to the nature of their characters being villains. the brawl story which so many people praise, really by passed the villains and heroes interactions. ganon and link? nope. mario and bowser? optional. kirby and ddd? kinda?
i dont know why people keep trying to resist that reasoning. even the belmonts had their villains added in. Its really clear what is going on here.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I agree that Dark Pit had the assets to create a more novel moveset from using his weapons in Uprising - that is a valid criticism of Dark Pit.

Dark Pit is unique enough to warrant his own character but would never have gotten in with a unique moveset, it's a Dark Samus situation. It's why I think people being weirdly passionate about excluding him to be so strange. They gave him different victories, taunts, and voice over to express his different personality, similarly to how Dark Samus has new animations.

Dr. Mario was, in melee, basically a Dark Pit. Mario has since gained FLUDD, and Doc has a new Dair, but during his inception, he was the same I believe? Wasn't only his frame data/numbers different? (Fair didn't spike but eh)

Wait do people hate Lucina as much as Dark Pit?

Dr. Mario in Melee was a lot more different from Mario than Dark Pit was from Pit in Smash 4. Dark Pit literally only has five gameplay differences from Pit: his jab finisher has a smaller hitbox (this one probably a mistake as it occurred from Pit's being made bigger in a patch while Dark Pit's was seemingly forgotten about), his f-tilt has less base knockback, his arrows are stronger with less control, side-b has different aesthetics while being stronger and hitting at a horizontal angle, and a different final smash that is straight cloned off of Light Arrow. Dr. Mario in Melee on the other hand, had damage, knockback, launch trajectory, and even some frame data differences in all his moves, alongside the Pills and many moves functioning differently. Dr. Mario also had faster air speed (though it's a misconception that he was slower and heavier, as his weight and all his other movement/physics specs were the same, but him being as fast and faster than Mario in his movement specs was probably a mistake from Melee's rushed development).

It feels a little biased, though.
gets to spit on the meaning of an Echo.
"hey bro what does dark samus do?" "i dont know i dont play american games"

If they don't use the phazon tentacles in some type of victory animation (because her Phazon shot is already her neutral special), then that's a wasted asset that could've been used. That's really my only complaint being the lack of a preexisting object you could incorporate.

Anyone else feel like the only reason certain characters aren’t echoes is because they’re veterans? Chrom seems more different from Roy than Young Link to Toon Link or Dr Mario to Mario.

I think Sakurai just didn’t want to make the old vets echoes and wanted to keep their numbers

People are really overrating how different Chrom is, he just has an up-B that was straight cloned from Ike, another character that was a compatible cloning base for him, and has Marcina's u-tilt, the character base Roy comes from. We additionally have no idea how the actual functioning and frame data of his moves alongside his movement/physics specs will compare to Roy, he could very well be like Lucina where he is the exact same to Roy in all those except for having consistent hitboxes on his attacks.

 

[Arcadenik]

Don't let anything or anyone stop you, even the adamance in people claiming overrepresentation. People should be allowed to support who they like, and play them to their heart's content should best come to pass.

Exactly. I don’t care if 1st gen Pokemon is overrepped. I just want to play as Meowth in Smash. Period.

 

[Will]

they dont feel FE has been done very well in smash. between characters they dont really care for (somewhat corrin, and kamui)

They don't care about Corrin so much they don't care about him in two different langauges

People are really overrating how different Chrom is

I think you underestimate what it means to know that he's different. The slightest difference in a different move, even if it already preexists, proves that Echoes don't have to copy every single move, which was the belief at the time. That's why most people expect Shadow now.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Guess you aren't getting out of the garbage then.

I wanna stay

dude what

You said tough decisions needs a stronger will, so I’ll sacrifice what I’d plan to sacrifice for the main Etika waifu

Guess you aren't getting out of the garbage then.

never...****ing...leaving

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Little Mac was pretty high in the original release of 3DS as well.

I don't expect Ridley or definitely K. Rool to be bringing in heat, but Simon/Richter's pure range and Chrom being just Roy but better can change things.

3ds doesn't count as it's not considered Mainstream and wasn't even optimable due to not having good controls with things such as micro spacing and retreating aerials being impossible to do. C-stick not being there was also a major issue. The real meta started with WII U which was already patched a little and that's when serious tournaments began.

Simon, Inkling, Chrom, and even Dark Samus looks promising. Ridley also looking like he's better than Smash 4 base newcomers as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Would like to know if anyone has covered it or if its something new! Here is the link:

http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/224729257/dairantou-smash-bros-special-leaks-super-smash

Thoughts?

(I apologize if this has already been talked about already)

 

[NessSaysOkay]

Honestly, who even cares if Fire Emblem is "overrepped"? most are clones and take little time, we only have 4 truly unique FE chars, which isn't that much, and on top of all this, it's not like Fire Emblem is the reason "insert franchise here" isn't getting as repped. They aren't gonna can for example Celica and be like okay now that we have room let's rep Zelda some more

 

[Noipoi]

Exactly. I don’t care if 1st gen Pokemon is overrepped. I just want to play as Meowth in Smash. Period.

Meowth is actually the one of the few Kanto Pokemon I wouldn't mind.
Well Lapras too but, Lapras isn't happening...

 

[BlueMagician]

I was more excited for Smash Bros 4's roster than I am for Ultimate's roster, at least in terms of newcomers.

 

[NessSaysOkay]

Would like to know if anyone has covered it or if its something new! Here is the link:

http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/224729257/dairantou-smash-bros-special-leaks-super-smash

Thoughts?

Geno Skull Kid and Isaac all not playable, Smash Tour is the green mode spirits probably. I think this leak is literally trying to make people salty tbh. So in otherwords, a troll.

 

[Will]

Honestly, who even cares if Fire Emblem is "overrepped"?

When the game developer and director himself says "yeah okay this a little too much fire on my emblem", people will care.

most are clones and take little time, we only have 4 truly unique FE chars, which isn't that much, and on top of all this, it's not like Fire Emblem is the reason "insert franchise here" isn't getting as repped. They aren't gonna can for example Celica and be like okay now that we have room let's rep Zelda some more

I think they're going by the poll results.
Though that may not be entirely true for Echoes, because Dark Samus is in. I don't think Dark Samus was expected to be high (nor Richter), but someone like Chrom probably made decent headlines.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Would like to know if anyone has covered it or if its something new! Here is the link:

http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/224729257/dairantou-smash-bros-special-leaks-super-smash

Thoughts?

(I apologize if this has already been talked about already)

I've seen this one before. It's nothing more than another "leak" on 4chan. Pay it no heed.

 

[Will]

I'll never believe a "leak" until I see footage. I was skeptical on the ESRB leak until that mother****ing leaker (his full name tho) posted the footage. I never believed the Rayman one either for similar reasons.

 

[NessSaysOkay]

TBH with all the people (rightfully I'll admit) saying this roster is primarily ballot based, I really hope they squeeze in just one char that had little attention in the ballot, a surprise char ala Wii Fit or Duck Hunt *cough* Rhythm Heaven rep please *cough* but tbh even if it wasn't it just feels so un smash like to not have at least one wild card. I know Rhythm Heaven is kinda expected by some but it's still different then like someone a lot of people actively want. I'm sure someone wanted Wii Fit, I know there are some people who wanted Duck Hunt. But yeah I want just one surprise char, retro they can leave out especially since Simon is maybe arguably retro rep.

 

[DevaAshera]

I'm not really anti Fire Emblem...I've never played it, but I love some of the characters in Smash :ultrobin. Even if we got another Fire Emblem, I'd be okay as long as they were unique (Azura?)

But...

I've gotta say, the Zelda neglect is really getting to me. Fire Emblem is nowhere near as big a franchise as Zelda, and yet it has one more character (and one more unique moveset) than one of Nintendo's flagships. Zelda keeps getting assists because 'they're a one-off!,' while Fire Emblem gets one-offs as playable. We really haven't gotten a new unique moveset since Melee, unless you want to count a few new moves for Link/Ganon in Ultimate.

...just a minor gripe.

I'm a Zelda fan too, but honestly, Fire Emblem gets one offs due to the whole series consisting of one-offs and two-offs. Zelda keeps the same main characters reused over and over.

However, there are 4 characters with more then two main series appearances that could work. I'll list some slight pros and cons.

1) Impa. Pros: In since Day 1, reoccuring, echo fighter potential (Hyrule Warriors Impa is unlikely due to spin-off). Cons: Mostly appears as old woman (only two young appearances in OoT and SS), depends on which version Sakurai feels better represents the character.

2) Ganon (Pig Style) Pros: Iconic, Different from Ganondorf, Unique Moveset with Trident (could be based on LttP, LBW, Oracles, Four Swords). Cons: Could be seen as redundant with Ganondorf already represented (and having Ganon as a Final Smash)

3) Tingle. Pros: Popular..in Japan. Moveset potential, multiple games of his own, multiple main series appearances. Cons: Unpopular everywhere else.

4) Vaati. Pros: multiple appearances, main villain of main side-series, moveset potential, villain for Toon Link. Cons: more or less abandoned, only real usable appearance in Minish Cap, not super well known.

 

[NessSaysOkay]

Say, any reason to expect a reveal at Gamescon?

Maybe, just maybe, due to the fact they said "Stay Tuned for more info soon" at the end of the nindies direct? If they meant Nindies specifically well maybe they'll do what they did at Evo and announce a general direct there? I dunno. I wouldn't count on it tho.

 

[Zinith]

TBH with all the people (rightfully I'll admit) saying this roster is primarily ballot based, I really hope they squeeze in just one char that had little attention in the ballot, a surprise char ala Wii Fit or Duck Hunt *cough* Rhythm Heaven rep please *cough* but tbh even if it wasn't it just feels so un smash like to not have at least one wild card. I know Rhythm Heaven is kinda expected by some but it's still different then like someone a lot of people actively want. I'm sure someone wanted Wii Fit, I know there are some people who wanted Duck Hunt. But yeah I want just one surprise char, retro they can leave out especially since Simon is maybe arguably retro rep.

Yeah, what he said. It's not like I'm invested in that VERY outcome or anything...

 

[LetterO]

*cough* Rhythm Heaven rep please *cough*

yes!

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I think you underestimate what it means to know that he's different. The slightest difference in a different move, even if it already preexists, proves that Echoes don't have to copy every single move, which was the belief at the time. That's why most people expect Shadow now.

It's just two moves, that were straight cloned from other characters that were compatible cloning bases, that does not mean Dark Samus or any other Echo can have a bunch of their own unique moves.

 

[Arcadenik]

Would like to know if anyone has covered it or if its something new! Here is the link:

http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/224729257/dairantou-smash-bros-special-leaks-super-smash

Thoughts?

(I apologize if this has already been talked about already)

This one sucks. I want to play as Isaac, Skull Kid, and even Geno.

 

[Will]

It's just two moves, that were straight cloned from other characters that were compatible cloning bases, that does not mean Dark Samus or any other Echo can have a bunch of their own unique moves.

Yes, and?
If you're referring to my point of DS instead of Chrom, I wanted to use the assets of phazon tentacles for the grappling beam. I thought it was funny.

 

[Opossum]

If Celica did manage to get in, I'd have all three of my favorite Fire Emblem lords.

And that'd be pretty damn awesome.

Also is anyone able to resize her head to a matching size?

 

[Buzzwole]

Honestly, who even cares if Fire Emblem is "overrepped"? most are clones and take little time, we only have 4 truly unique FE chars, which isn't that much, and on top of all this, it's not like Fire Emblem is the reason "insert franchise here" isn't getting as repped. They aren't gonna can for example Celica and be like okay now that we have room let's rep Zelda some more

Equal representation in Smash is more important to some people than others.

I personally think Fire Emblem is over-represented. Even when it comes to low-effort echoes, that's time I'd rather be spent on series that aren't represented as much. For every Fire Emblem echo character they add, I just think that we could have gotten Ken, Shadow, Dixie, Mrs. Pac-Man, Funky Kong, or a number of other echoes.

Fire Emblem has absolutely gained popularity over the last few years, but is it Mario levels of popular? Does it deserve more representation than the legend of zelda? I personally don't think so.

I think before anything else, echo priority should go to under-represented franchises. Instead of Chrom, Black Shadow or Blood Falcon would have been my choice.

But like I said, everyone values different things when it comes to Smash. I care more about spreading representation as evenly as possible.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I remember the ESRB leak happening. I have never felt such disappointment in my entire life. Even some of the 3rd parties like Mega Man or Pac Man I had no feelings towards because I didn't play their games as a kid. Then the cuts. Oh man the cuts. I'm sad just thinking about it.

 

[Paperchampion23]

This one sucks. I want to play as Isaac, Skull Kid, and even Geno.

Isaac and Geno, like K. Rool and Ridley, are highly requested characters over the past decade and from what we know, should have scored high on the Ballot in 2015 (like the other 2 did). Skull kid just has a few things going for him (missing AT, AT replacement, new item that serves as his AT function, etc) for now that has pointed him to being in the game.

I'd honestly would be extremely shocked if at least one of these is not playable. Geno to me seems the most likely, as per Sakurai's comments on the character in 2016 (tl;dr: he wants him in the game)

I remember the ESRB leak happening. I have never felt such disappointment in my entire life. Even some of the 3rd parties like Mega Man or Pac Man I had no feelings towards because I didn't play their games as a kid. Then the cuts. Oh man the cuts. I'm sad just thinking about it.

Considering Ultimate is singing an entirely different tune in terms of character inclusion (no cuts, 2 previously thought impossible characters joining, etc), I'd say to not expect anything like Smash 4's characters.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Yes, and?
If you're referring to my point of DS instead of Chrom, I wanted to use the assets of phazon tentacles for the grappling beam. I thought it was funny.

I don't see how the tentacles from an AT move in Smash 4 could be used to replace her Grapple Beam.

 

[Nazyrus]

Say, any reason to expect a reveal at Gamescon?

Well they do reveal stuff there. Lola Pop happened last year. Also the closer we get to the release, more reveals are gonna happen no matter what. It's a good event to do at least 1 new reveal imo. Which day tho… i dunno, we wil have to pay attention in all the range of gamescom 21-25 but i bet Nintendo will do the same as EVO and whatever they will do, either a reveal or an announcement of an announcement, will be in the last day most possibly.

 

[Will]

I don't see how the tentacles from an AT move in Smash 4 could be used to replace her Grapple Beam.

Shrink and extend. I just said I thought it was funny.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Nobody believed they were real, but here's confirmation from Vergeben anyway that those screenshots of him claiming a non-Bandana Dee Kirby character and a pre-Sony character "coming back from the grave" were faked.

 

[CroonerMike]

Say, any reason to expect a reveal at Gamescon?

Go in with low expectations. You'll save yourself. We JUST had a direct hahah.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Go in with low expectations. You'll save yourself. We JUST had a direct hahah.

This.

Guys, we'll be lucky to get any demo updates at there or PAX West.

 

[PSIGuy]

People really exaggerate Fire Emblem's popularity. For years it merely sold well enough to get new games and the one time they didn't bring a game over it nearly killed the series. The fact people think FE having 8 reps is fine while also being content with a single Xenoblade rep never ceases to baffle me.

 

[DarkFalcon]

The very most I would even expect out of Gamescom is maaaaybe a new Echo? That's best case for me. I'm expecting nothing at all.

 

[Zinith]

This.

Guys, we'll be lucky to get any demo updates at there or PAX West.

No newcomers, but I'd be disappointed if there's no demo update