Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

You're the one talking about importance in the quote I posted. I didn't even imply that Toad should be in Smash. Super Smash Bros. series will add whoever it wants for a variety of reasons, but if we are doing the "Who's more important" argument then Toad wins.

My post is about how Bandana Dee as a character is more important to Kirby than literally any generic Toad, and I mentioned Smash because A: HAL wants him in and B: This is the Smash Ultimate thread

 

[Will]

Oh boy I love it when Hat Goomba arguments start to make an appearance

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Honestly, i'll give my opinion on Bandana Dee.

I like him, again, i don't love him, but i like him enough for him to be in smash.

The problem he faces is that his popularity needs to outshine sakurai's bias for the original games over the newer entries.

Will that happen? i can't predict the future, as Sakurai is an unpredictable man.

Let's wait and see.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

They may have sucked but I enjoyed Dedede more when he had them. It was fun having an army of Waddle Dee's just walking around the field

Maybe if it was Brawl Minus where you could control them, they were a lot more threatening, knock them away to turn them into projectiles, and have more out at once it was fun, but otherwise they were a nuisance who got in the way much of the time (there was absolutely nothing more annoying in Brawl as a Dedede main than constantly autograbbing the Waddles when you're trying to attack near them, that has cost me games before). The Smash 4 Gordos additionally have a lot fun and interesting applications, particularly with ledge trapping.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, i'll give my opinion on Bandana Dee.

I like him, again, i don't love him, but i like him enough for him to be in smash.

The problem he faces is that his popularity needs to outshine his bias for the original games over the newer entiries.

Will that happen? i can't predict the future, as Sakurai is an unpredictable man.

Let's wait and see.

Lots of Bandana Dee fans have hope as Masked Dedede is a final smash, which isn't from what Sakurai made. If Bandana Dee isn't going to be playable or even an assist trophy, he'd most likely have popped up in the background cheering Dedede on during the shot where Dedede's not seen and the enemy gets barraged by missles

 

[kirbstr]

I'm guessing everyone saying that Bandanna Dee is irrelevant or just a standard enemy with a hat or a blue toad have never actually played a Kirby game with him in it. Or if they have it definitely wasn't Super Star Ultra.

From an outsiders perspective he may seem like a lazily designed "player 4" for the kirby series based on a basic enemy with no real relevance, but that simply isn't the case.

For starters people need to stop with this comparison of waddle dees to goombas. They are NOT the same. Sure they are both basic enemies from their respective games, but waddle dees carry much more personality as well as individuality compared to goombas. Goombas are pretty much all the same and are just boring henchmen of the King Koopa. Not to mention that in game they are basically moving obstacles for the player to get around. Waddle dees are a different story. Because of the nature of Kirby games they can't really act as any kind of obstacle to the player. So instead they have to contribute to the aesthetic and personality of the level, especially in more recent Kirby games. You can see them driving cars, manning tanks, Sleeping in huts, and even commanding a military. They are may more unique and interesting than goombas on a very basic level in terms of their purpose and design, not to mention that they almost literally can't kill you in game so "basic enemy" my ass. So even if you think that Bandanna Dee is just a waddle dee with a hat and a spear, Waddle dees are still 100x more interesting and unique compared to goombas.

On that note, anyone who has played KSSU will know that Bandanna Dee is the commander of King Dedede's army and that he has a very distinct personality even when compared to characters like Meta Knight. He is loyal and supportive of his King while also wishing for the best of all people including Kirby. He is pure and wholesome and will do whatever it takes to serve his majesty as well as dreamland if need be. People call him the "player 4" of Kirby games when he has really only filled that role twice in any Kirby game (barely so in star allies). In most games he is helping Kirby out and assisting him on his journey to save Dreamland. His main move-set consists of the spear copy ability which is an incredibly fun copy ability to use and his move-set would perfectly translate to smash. He has also used a parasol in Kirby battle royal and has even visibly cracked Popstar by punching the ground with his raw strength alone in megaton punch.

Regardless of whether or not you think Bandanna Dee is a unique enough character to be in smash (he is) Waddle Dees need some kind of representation in the roster, especially since Dedede's side special changed.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

If that Mario movie by Illumination studios comes out and gives Toads the role of minions, we'll probably see a rise in the popularity of Toads

oof don't say that.

 

[Koopaul]

My post is about how Bandana Dee as a character is more important to Kirby than literally any generic Toad

This is the statement I am focusing on and this is the statement I responded to. Nothing else.

You are claiming that Bandana Dee is more important to the Kirby series than Toad is to the Mario series, which is the biggest hot take ever. Toad have been a staple to the series since forever and you know this.

Also, I am not trying to insult Bandana Dee or think that he is unimportant. I KNOW how much of a big deal he is and I would be happy to see him in Smash. But to act like he's a bigger deal than Toad?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm guessing everyone saying that Bandanna Dee is irrelevant or just a standard enemy with a hat or a blue toad have never actually played a Kirby game with him in it. Or if they have it definitely wasn't Super Star Ultra.

From an outsiders perspective he may seem like a lazily designed "player 4" for the kirby series based on a basic enemy with no real relevance, but that simply isn't the case.

For starters people need to stop with this comparison of waddle dees to goombas. They are NOT the same. Sure they are both basic enemies from their respective games, but waddle dees carry much more personality as well as individuality compared to goombas. Goombas are pretty much all the same and are just boring henchmen of the King Koopa. Not to mention that in game they are basically moving obstacles for the player to get around. Waddle dees are a different story. Because of the nature of Kirby games they can't really act as any kind of obstacle to the player. So instead they have to contribute to the aesthetic and personality of the level, especially in more recent Kirby games. You can see them driving cars, manning tanks, Sleeping in huts, and even commanding a military. They are may more unique and interesting than goombas on a very basic level in terms of their purpose and design, not to mention that they almost literally can't kill you in game so "basic enemy" my ***. So even if you think that Bandanna Dee is just a waddle dee with a hat and a spear, Waddle dees are still 100x more interesting and unique compared to goombas.

On that note, anyone who has played KSSU will know that Bandanna Dee is the commander of King Dedede's army and that he has a very distinct personality even when compared to characters like Meta Knight. He is loyal and supportive of his King while also wishing for the best of all people including Kirby. He is pure and wholesome and will do whatever it takes to serve his majesty as well as dreamland if need be. People call him the "player 4" of Kirby games when he has really only filled that role twice in any Kirby game (barely so in star allies). In most games he is helping Kirby out and assisting him on his journey to save Dreamland. His main move-set consists of the spear copy ability which is an incredibly fun copy ability to use and his move-set would perfectly translate to smash. He has also used a parasol in Kirby battle royal and has even visibly cracked Popstar by punching the ground with his raw strength alone in megaton punch.

Regardless of whether or not you think Bandanna Dee is a unique enough character to be in smash (he is) Waddle Dees need some kind of representation in the roster, especially since Dedede's side special changed.

I've played every single kirby game that has come out, except for some side games. And it's been in my top favorite franchise since Kirby's Dreamland 2, which is probably my favorite Gameboy game excluding Pokemon. And not recently, I grew up with the series.

I just don't like the character

 

[Will]

Fellas, fellas, let's not worry about Bandana Dee.
Let's worry about that the fact that this will probably be a controller option.

 

[Koopaul]

Even worse than that is playing multiplayer with a friend sharing a joycon and playing Smash on that small screen together. Imagine 8-Player Smash!

This but six more people!

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Lots of Bandana Dee fans have hope as Masked Dedede is a final smash, which isn't from what Sakurai made. If Bandana Dee isn't going to be playable or even an assist trophy, he'd most likely have popped up in the background cheering Dedede on during the shot where Dedede's not seen and the enemy gets barraged by missles

So i did some research, and i did find out that Sakurai didn't work on Super Star Ultra. Very interesting.

As far as i know, Super Star Ultra is the latest "non-sakurai kirby game" that he has referenced.

It all depends on how far he wants to go. Will he put bandana dee in the game?


Sakurai is an unpredictable man, but we'll see soon.

Fellas, fellas, let's not worry about Bandana Dee.
Let's worry about that the fact that this will probably be a controller option.
View attachment 158694

Even worse than that is playing multiplayer with a friend sharing a joycon and playing Smash on that small screen together. Imagine 8-Player Smash!

OH GOD. THAT WILL CAUSE YOU TENDINITIS.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wasn't Bandanna Dee first introduced in a Sakurai game or am I mistaken?

 

[T-Hell]

Ill never understand why people want Bandana Dee for Smash. He’s like the least interesting choice ever

That has the easiest answer ever: Everyone likes some characters. There are people who want Layton in the game. Why? Because they find him cool, interesting or played his games and loved them. Every character ends up being appealing to some people, for one reason or another.

I feel indiferent towards Bandana Dee, but lots of people want him and if he could potentially provide an unique moveset (spear and such), then so be it. Don't need to throw that like if his fans should feel bad for liking him.

 

[Astroworld]

Bowser Jr. literally reuses Baby Bowser's design from Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island so there's that to think about.

Baby Bowser is just Bowser as a baby so yeah it makes sense his son would look like he did as a kid

Also Bowser is an iconic villain, Waddle Dee isn’t

 

[kirbstr]

I've played every single kirby game that has come out, except for some side games. And it's been in my top favorite franchise since Kirby's Dreamland 2, which is probably my favorite Gameboy game excluding Pokemon. And not recently, I grew up with the series.

I just don't like the character

It's fine not to like the character, but people going on and on about "player 4" and "goomba with a hat" and "blue toad" need to chill. He is may more important and unique than people give him credit for, as evident by the fact that he is one of if not the most popular choice for a newcomer in Japan.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

My post is about how Bandana Dee as a character is more important to Kirby than literally any generic Toad, and I mentioned Smash because A: HAL wants him in and B: This is the Smash Ultimate thread

Bandana Dee has been important to his series for 7 years...

Toad as a character has been important to his series for 30 years.

Toad is far more important of a Nintendo/Mario character.

Than Bandana Dee is a Kirby/Nintendo character.

I mean at least if you use logic and reality and not pure fan blinders.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Wasn't Bandanna Dee first introduced in a Sakurai game or am I mistaken?

Yup, he made his debut in Kirby Super Star.

 

[Astroworld]

That has the easiest answer ever: Everyone likes some characters. There are people who want Layton in the game. Why? Because they find him cool, interesting or played his games and loved them. Every character ends up being appealing to some people, for one reason or another.

I feel indiferent towards Bandana Dee, but lots of people want him and if he could potentially provide an unique moveset (spear and such), then so be it. Don't need to throw that like if his fans should feel bad for liking him.

If people like him that’s fine. Not trying to change their mind. Just saying I don’t see him being a worthwhile addition

 

[WallyPalmer]

So i did some research, and i did find out that Sakurai didn't work on Super Star Ultra. Very interesting.

As far as i know, Super Star Ultra is the latest "non-sakurai kirby game" that he has referenced.

It all depends on how far he wants to go. Will he put bandana dee in the game?


Sakurai is an unpredictable man, but we'll see soon.

Kirby's Final Smash is from RTDL, which also got a few trophies.

Wasn't Bandanna Dee first introduced in a Sakurai game or am I mistaken?

The original Super Star, yeah

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

No ones debunked this one yet but

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Spoiler: Picture

Can you find where the shadow pose was from?

Let’s see if we can debunk it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wasn't Bandanna Dee first introduced in a Sakurai game or am I mistaken?

He was, but that was the original Super Star, he was just the first enemy you fight in the Megaton Punch minigame

So i did some research, and i did find out that Sakurai didn't work on Super Star Ultra. Very interesting.

As far as i know, Super Star Ultra is the latest "non-sakurai kirby game" that he has referenced.

It all depends on how far he wants to go. Will he put bandana dee in the game?


Sakurai is an unpredictable man, but we'll see soon.





OH GOD. THAT WILL CAUSE YOU TENDINITIS.

Sakurai's last Kirby Game is Air Ride, though he also had some involvement with Amazing Mirror's development. Meaning all non-Sakurai Kirby content is Kirby's final Smash, Dedede's Final Smash, the Squeak Squad remix, Cookie Country, Floral Fields and the Sectonia VS Hypernova themes

 

[Nazyrus]

Considering Smash Ultimate is gonna be hyped as *** in these remaining 3 months now, I wouldn't consider a reveal at Gamescom like something impossible. And yes, we've gotten character reveals for Nintendo games at gamescom before, for example Lola Pop for Arms the 22nd of August 2017, as a latest example. So i think it's totally possible. Of course we gotta be ready for no announcements, but heck, so we were with EVO.

 

[T-Hell]

No ones debunked this one yet but

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Spoiler: Picture

Can you find where the shadow pose was from?

Let’s see if we can debunk it.

I'm afraid you're late to the party dude, lol. It's been already debunked.

 

[Will]

No ones debunked this one yet but

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Spoiler: Picture

Can you find where the shadow pose was from?

Let’s see if we can debunk it.

Literally one of the first posts

Spoiler

 

[Nazyrus]

No ones debunked this one yet but

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Spoiler: Picture

Can you find where the shadow pose was from?

Let’s see if we can debunk it.

I already posted it was debunked a few pages ago. It's from this:

 

[WallyPalmer]

Bandana Dee has been important to his series for 7 years...

Toad as a character who has been important to his series for 30 years.

Toad is far more important of a Nintendo/Mario character.

Than Bandana Dee is a Kirby/Nintendo character.

I mean at least if you use logic and reality and not pure fan blinders.

Toad is a Species, though. If Bandana Dee gets in, he'll be a representative of Waddle Dees as a whole. He'll probably even be called Waddle Dee in the CSS and stuff. Waddle Dees are the second most marketed thing in the Kirby franchise, a series built from cute marketing and merchandise. They're AHEAD of Meta Knight, Dedede, or any of the other characters people want in smash. I'd argue that if Kirby had the franchise power of Mario, Bandana Dee would already have his own game akin to Captain Toad.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Kirby's Final Smash is from RTDL, which also got a few trophies.

Hm. Maybe i underestimated Sakurai.

As a kirby fan, i was always under the impression that sakurai didn't care for the newer games.

Though, this doesn't outright confirm him, it does strengthen the possibility of his inclusion.

 

[Koopaul]

Bandana Dee would be a fine 4th Kirby character. In such a short time he has proven his worth.

I'd also argue that Waddle Dees in genral are super iconic to the Kirby series.

Its just... You can't compare him to Toad.

 

[Metal Shop X]

One of the biggest point in BD favor I say is the fact he is a spear user, which no other Smash character have as of now, not even FE who you think would have get one by now.

So, the potential for a unique moveset compared to the rest of the Kirby cast or the cast in general is here, especially if you bring the umbrella ability to the bunch.

Plus, if Sakurai can make Little Mac, a boxer feel unique, I think a spear user can definitly bring more to the table.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Toad is a Species, though. If Bandana Dee gets in, he'll be a representative of Waddle Dees as a whole. He'll probably even be called Waddle Dee in the CSS and stuff. Waddle Dees are the second most marketed thing in the Kirby franchise, a series built from cute marketing and merchandise. They're AHEAD of Meta Knight, Dedede, or any of the other characters people want in smash. I'd argue that if Kirby had the franchise power of Mario, Bandana Dee would already have his own game akin to Captain Toad.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Bandana Dee was just called Waddle Dee. It would sort of explain why all Waddles Dees are gone from Dedede’s moveset, even those that don’t wear bandanas...

 

[Deleted member]

Even worse than that is playing multiplayer with a friend sharing a joycon and playing Smash on that small screen together. Imagine 8-Player Smash!

This but six more people!

Better than sideways Wii Remote.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Also with the inclusion of it's pretty clear that Sakurai is focusing on adding the most requested characters to the roster, regardless of circumstance. He's actively stated Ridley wouldn't work as a playable fighter, and K. Rool has been MIW for over a decade, and even moreso in the Donkey Kong Country games.

Even if Bandanna Waddle Dee is nothing more than a generic Waddle Dee with a bandanna, if he has enough of a following (which he probably has, he's one of the most requested characters I see often) then Sakurai can and will forgo issues like that.

 

[kirbstr]

So i did some research, and i did find out that Sakurai didn't work on Super Star Ultra. Very interesting.

As far as i know, Super Star Ultra is the latest "non-sakurai kirby game" that he has referenced.

It all depends on how far he wants to go. Will he put bandana dee in the game?


Sakurai is an unpredictable man, but we'll see soon.





OH GOD. THAT WILL CAUSE YOU TENDINITIS.

Nope, the latest Kirby game sakurai has referenced was Triple Deluxe where there were 2 pieces of music from that game. It was also the last Kirby game to come out before the end of smash 4 DLC.

However Sakurai has also had many references to Return to Dreamland in trophies, music, and also Kirby's final smash being the ultra sword. While there still isn't a kirby stage based from a game that came out after after the original super star, he is easing up on the bias.

 

[PeridotGX]

Bandana Dee has been important to his series for 7 years...

Toad as a character has been important to his series for 30 years.

Toad is far more important of a Nintendo/Mario character.

Than Bandana Dee is a Kirby/Nintendo character.

I mean at least if you use logic and reality and not pure fan blinders.

Okay then, let's compare Bandana Dee to Geno. All Geno has is a side role in a SNES Mario spinoff. Bandana Dee's the 4th main character in Kirby, and has appeared in every Kirby game since his debut. Are you going to say that Geno's more important than Bandana Dee?

No ones debunked this one yet but

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Spoiler: Picture

Can you find where the shadow pose was from?

Let’s see if we can debunk it.

It's been debunked, I think it's a reused Boom model

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It only makes sense to make him the single most strongest assist trophy out there.



I know, right?!

They are in a similiar boat as Capcom when it comes to the possibilities for content in smash-

i'd say if there weren't like you just said.. so many dead franchises.

Nowadays they've only got Sonic? and Yakuza.

Capcom uses a good chunk of their franchises. There aren't many dead Capcom IPs that I hear fan demand for or isn't dead for a good reason. Street Fighter, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter. Devil May Cry, Mega Man, Ace Attorney,etc. are all still being used.

Sega just kind of gave up. Sonic is the only old IP they try to keep relevant and even when they get a modern hit like Bayonetta, they almost let it die too. If it wasn't for Yakuza and Football Manager, I'd wonder if they had any big IPs besides Sonic left. Now, many of those IPs fizzled out in sales, but it's not like they always have to be that way.

They're mostly just trying to stay afloat now (though on the plus side they're putting out their first FOTNS game since the SMS/Genesis days, and Shining Resonance actually got brought over).

As for Capcom, Breath of Fire is pretty much killed and replaced by Monster Hunter.

Now Konami? Pfft, no skin off their nose, they got pachinko (at least until that goes out of style)! Who needs video games? Those are just a fad!

To think that they don't even bother to use Master Higgins at all, let alone Bonk, grumble grumble.

I've always wanted Arle to get in as a Sega rep. The only reason I say Shadow is likely is because of Echo Sonic, I'd prefer literally any other Sonic character honestly kek.

This. Shadow is the last Sonic character I'd need, I'd even take Big over him (at least he uses a fishing pole).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Bandana Dee has been important to his series for 7 years...

Toad as a character has been important to his series for 30 years.

Toad is far more important of a Nintendo/Mario character.

Than Bandana Dee is a Kirby/Nintendo character.

I mean at least if you use logic and reality and not pure fan blinders.

The waddle dees is a species that has been around since the near the beginning of kirby

I agree with Wally if in smash ultimate I call home waddle dee rather than bandana dee

I mean the up B could be the umbrella

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bandana Dee has been important to his series for 7 years...

Toad as a character has been important to his series for 30 years.

Toad is far more important of a Nintendo/Mario character.

Than Bandana Dee is a Kirby/Nintendo character.

I mean at least if you use logic and reality and not pure fan blinders.

Is this a language thing? When I say "As a character" I mean their, you know, character. Personality. Every generic Toad is the same as the others. Bandana Dee is not the same as the others, stated to be courageous, in comparison to the harmless Waddle Dees who occasionally get frightened just by seeing Kirby. If this was Captain Toad and not every regular ass Toad I'd be inclined to agree as 'Treasure hunter' is more than the regular cowardly Toads

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Baby Bowser is just Bowser as a baby so yeah it makes sense his son would look like he did as a kid

Also Bowser is an iconic villain, Waddle Dee isn’t

"I understand Bowser is a main antagonist but that doesn’t make his design any less lazy"

 

[Koopaul]

Better than sideways Wii Remote.

My conscern is less about the controler and more about the fact that people are encouraged to play games together looking at a tiny screen.

Playing games on a tiny screen isnt a problem when you are doing it by yourself and are holding the device close to your face. But multiple people?