Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DevaAshera]

Let's be real here. If a Gen7 Pokemon were going to get revealed, it wouldn't have been as exciting.

Now if its not a Gen 7 and the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak is somehow true..geez, I could just imagine the reaction to it if it was true but wasn't leaked..

On a related note, I'm curious how y'all would react if it was true. I'm not asking if you think it's true or fake, just what your reaction would be if it somehow was true.

For real? He was among the likes of Crash and others?

Yeah, people thought he'd have made a good replacement for Snake and be a more fitting Konami rep in regards to Nintendo ties.

Definitely higher then Crash Bandicoot..his popularity didn't happen until after the N-Sane Trilogy gave him a sort of revival.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

He goes for both things, we've clearly gotten characters we've asked for and never asked for.

Right. Who asked for those damn Mii Fighters!?

Cooooome on now don't be shy, raise your hand.

 

[Deleted member]

If he can't provide a grain of evidence beyond "My sources say..." I refuse to pay the slightest bit of attention to anything he has to say. The same goes for these other "leakers."

The guy was the first to call Simon, said Ridley was in despite Sakurai's statement from Smash 4 and predicted there were no cuts. He has a 100% track record so far, what other "evidence" do you want?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah. What I'm saying is we should be past the mentality that because a character is peaceful or assists in their series or what not?

That's all they can do in Smash Brothers. It's a weird weird weird mentality to have considering most of the cast.

And there's really no point in defending it or even having said mentality when Sakurai shows he doesn't care about that mentality at all.

So it doesn't even help you in speculation to have a mentality such as that.

Actually, he has spoken about it. He wants to keep characters accurate to their canon personalities as much as possible. That can include whether they'll fight or not. So who knows. Plus, she already shows she's not a fan of fighting in her Smash appearances already, which perfectly fits who she is. She could still stay that way. So far Sakurai is doing exactly that, keeping her who she is, as peaceful and assisting only. Whether he still keeps to that is another story.

So it's not inaccurate to say that at all, when he does show this mentality. Every playable character so far does not have a personality of "would never hurt someone" or "has no qualms about fighting characters". There's literally no single character in their canon franchise that's playable to have this quality. He's sticking to their canon selves in that regard every time. The only game to remotely show Isabelle might be willing to fight(and it isn't Smash at this point) is Amiibo Festival among her canonical appearances(though that canon is dubious), and that's only under the idea it's fun and games/a competitive sport at best. Not real fighting to actually harm someone. It doesn't mean she won't be playable, but this alone could be enough to keep her as an AT, which is completely understandable, since it fits her personality the most accurate anyway.

Also, many of the AT's aren't of peaceful-only characters. Takamaru, Waluigi, Lyn, etc. Most of them would fight. Isabelle is one of the few who directly is interested in helping others, but never hurting them. That's why many think she fits perfectly as an Assist Trophy. And that's a very reasonable point to make. Her personality is important to some more than "just being playable". If she's going to be playable, she should be happy-go-lucky and think everything's a game, imo. Meaning she's not being actually intentionally violent, a perfect representation of who she is. I never bought the accidental fighter idea, because it still means she'll figure out she's really hurting someone. If she thinks it's all a game, it's not the same thing and fits her peaceful motives better.

 

[Shroob]

For real? He was among the likes of Crash and others?

As someone who was there at the time, really only Megaman could compare to Simon.


Pac Man was deemed 'having no moves' by most, everyone considered Cloud a meme, and Ryu.... well no one really thought about Ryu.

 

[Grevmak]

Just important to remember this moving forward. The current smash roster is the absolute best it has ever been, and previously thought impossible newcomers like K. Rool and Ridley make it infinitely better, but people will always still argue and complain. Isaac and Geno have gotten my vote since the Brawl days, and still do, but I know that if they never were added, I'd be okay with everything we've gotten so far.

Overall, people need to just chill and enjoy what we get and play with in a new smash game, rather than be salty about not being able to play with their favorite character. Like, enjoy that the game is bigger and better than ever! We waste so much energy on hating each other for silly speculations.

Seriously, just when the 8.8 direct was over, the first few threads I read on reddit were about the fact that FF had too few music as "Castlevania has it so much better" yet licensing w/ square is hard, and also that Waluigi isn't in it and that's obviously unforgiveable.

This is a videogame crossover with 60+ unique characters that all play in pretty unique ways, are insanely faithful to the source material from walk cycles to taunts to moves, and that features 100+ stages, 800 songs, tons of new features on TOP of a hopefully really fun game to play that - hopefully - will have a fun to participate in competitive community.

**** like this incessant crying about X not getting in just after we got 4 more characters is incredibly entitled. This game's OST alone is worth the money.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

As someone who was there at the time, really only Megaman could compare to Simon.


Pac Man was deemed 'having no moves' by most, everyone considered Cloud a meme, and Ryu.... well no one really thought about Ryu.

There were a lot of people against Ryu for various reasons. Some that didn't think they could portray Ryu accurately in Smash since it was speculated he wouldn't work like in Street Fighter. And others just didn't want a fighting game character in Smash

 

[Noipoi]

Now if its not a Gen 7 and the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak is somehow true..geez, I could just imagine the reaction to it if it was true but wasn't leaked..

On a related note, I'm curious how y'all would react if it was true. I'm not asking if you think it's true or fake, just what your reaction would be if it somehow was true.


Yeah, people thought he'd have made a good replacement for Snake and be a more fitting Konami rep in regards to Nintendo ties.

Definitely higher then Crash Bandicoot..his popularity didn't happen until after the N-Sane Trilogy gave him a sort of revival.

Gardevoir's my third favorite Pokemon so i'd be pretty hype.
And the reactions to Gothitelle would be great too.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, he has spoken about it. He wants to keep characters accurate to their canon personalities as much as possible. That can include whether they'll fight or not. So who knows. Plus, she already shows she's not a fan of fighting in her Smash appearances already, which perfectly fits who she is. She could still stay that way. So far Sakurai is doing exactly that, keeping her who she is, as peaceful and assisting only. Whether he still keeps to that is another story.

So it's not inaccurate to say that at all, when he does show this mentality. Every playable character so far does not have a personality of "would never hurt someone" or "has no qualms about fighting characters". There's literally no single character in their canon franchise that's playable to have this quality. He's sticking to their canon selves in that regard every time. The only game to remotely show Isabelle might be willing to fight(and it isn't Smash at this point) is Amiibo Festival among her canonical appearances(though that canon is dubious), and that's only under the idea it's fun and games/a competitive sport at best. Not real fighting to actually harm someone. It doesn't mean she won't be playable, but this alone could be enough to keep her as an AT, which is completely understandable, since it fits her personality the most accurate anyway.

Also, many of the AT's aren't of peaceful-only characters. Takamaru, Waluigi, Lyn, etc. Most of them would fight. Isabelle is one of the few who directly is interested in helping others, but never hurting them. That's why many think she fits perfectly as an Assist Trophy. And that's a very reasonable point to make. Her personality is important to some more than "just being playable". If she's going to be playable, she should be happy-go-lucky and think everything's a game, imo. Meaning she's not being actually intentionally violent, a perfect representation of who she is. I never bought the accidental fighter idea, because it still means she'll figure out she's really hurting someone. If she thinks it's all a game, it's not the same thing and fits her peaceful motives better.

I thought we had gone ober this after Ssakurai said Villager was "too peaceful to ne a fighter" and then went back on his word because refusing to add characters based om the nature of their home series is a stupid mentality.

 

[Momotsuki]

The guy was the first to call Simon, said Ridley was in despite Sakurai's statement from Smash 4 and predicted there were no cuts. He has a 100% track record so far, what other "evidence" do you want?

These were all very popular desires, and it seems like that was a big goal with Ultimate. I'm not saying Verg's leaking is all wrong. I don't know either way. I'm saying that I will not latch onto something that isn't backed up indisputably. I will not risk being disappointed in such a manner, regardless of the size of said risk. The only leak I have ever allowed myself to be confident in was the Smash 3DS roster leak, as it was simply impossible to dispute, especially as time progressed.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I'm saying you have no idea how the licensing works, because you don't. You said yourself you didn't even know how a board of directors works until Iron Fist. Lighten up and stop acting like everybody else is the naive one here.

Well for one, your only counter argument to me was that maybe Microsoft lets them get Banjo in for Free cause free advertisement which is something I'm not even going to entertain. Yeah I didn't know about the board of directors until Ironfist and further research; your point? (It's called learning). Just because what I said about people not understanding the Microsoft x Nintendo situation about Minecraft and then correlating it with Banjo does not make it any less untrue. Its is a misconception that needs to corrected. Just because I am pointing it out does not mean I believe everyone is naive nor was there was such indication of me thinking everyone was naive; being naive would be just believing everything you are told. People will now have learned about why its wrong to blow the Microsoft/ Nintendo situation out of the water when my previous posts explains why.

You seem to have become annoyed for what I said which happens to be true. I will say it again because its true; yes people have been generalizing or don't know the context of the Minecraft / Nintendo situation and the reason I said it is because it's really common to hear that. Its a misconception. I don't know why you told me to Lighten up and call me Naive??? I even said it is fine to hope for his inclusion. What is not okay is people constantly bringing up Microsoft and Nintendo Minecraft situation when what is actually happening has little to do with them liking each other. I'm not going to just lie to you or would you prefer to have confirmation bias? This is not the site for that.

 

[cmbsfm]

Vergeben believed a fake leak that said no DK characters were getting in. Even if he backtracked, the fact that he believed it for even a second means that he doesn't have the full roster, otherwise he would have instantly known that was BS.

Uhh, didn’t he say himself he didn’t believe it? Which is why he never posted it in the first place. The only reason we even know about it is because Loz leaked the PM.

 

[Deleted member]

These were all very popular desires, and it seems like that was a big goal with Ultimate. I'm not saying Verg's leaking is all wrong. I don't know either way. I'm saying that I will not latch onto something that isn't backed up indisputably. I will not risk being disappointed in such a manner.

No one was predicting Simom until Verg leaked him. Seriously, stop acting like anyone was expecting Simon, he was on nobody's radar, stop using hindsight as an argument.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I thought we had gone ober this after Ssakurai said Villager was "too peaceful to ne a fighter" and then went back on his word because refusing to add characters based om the nature of their home series is a stupid mentality.

Nope, that isn't a proper example. Villager has zero canon personality to begin with. We don't know if he'd fight or not in the series.

And that's the nature of the series anyway, not the nature of the literal character. Villager lacks the real personality to determine anything. He has about as much legit personality as R.O.B. or Mr. Game & Watch, that is, none that determines anything. It's why Villager is a poor example. He was never fleshed out like Isabelle. It'd be neat if he was, but he wasn't. Like, the closest thing to a real personality he has an Animal Crossing Animation that is non-canon anyway.

I can get the argument that Sakurai won't care whether they would fight or not. But that doesn't mean using a blank slate character as a counterexample really helps either. Because it's a really poor one that doesn't prove anything against my point.

 

[Nazyrus]

Do you mean so far or in general? So far we've gotten nothing but heavily requested characters in this game. Inkling, Ridley, K. Rool, and say what you will about Simon but he was one of THE most requested 3rd parties back in Brawl. I don't think EVERY character will be a huge, fandom shaking announcement but at this point it seems like that's what he's aiming for. Isabelle is also incredibly popular. People might not necessarily see her as a fighter per se but she's easily one of the most popular Animal Crossing characters if not THE most popular. It's no real surprise that she's likely for Ultimate. Incineroar might not be the most popular of the Gen 7 starters with fans but he is damn sure the most popular with Game Freak, etc. just look at all the spotlight he's getting in the anime!

I'm sure there's a couple more heavy-hitter deep-cuts like Isaac and Geno waiting to blow us away but then again Incinaroar and Isabelle are certainly not a pair of slouches. I'm also positive Ken and Shadow and more echoes in the same vein as them are on their way too so there's PLENTY more to look forward to besides potentially Incineroar and Isabelle.

Just realized this post comes off as kind of ranty and I quoted you in it Nazyrus. Not all that was meant directly to you. More so to the thread as a whole.

In general
Also yeah i never said anything about simon lol

 

[Momotsuki]

No one was predicting Simom until Verg leaked him. Seriously, stop acting like anyone was expecting Simon, he was on nobody's radar, stop using hindsight as an argument.

I never said popular predictions. I said popular desires, which Simon was. There are plenty of fighters that I want, but do not think for a moment will make the cut. Please do not counter a completely different argument than the one presented.

 

[Ridrool64]

The way I see it, most of the characters Vergeben has leaked so far were pretty obvious choices (although Ridley was unlikelier than Inklings or Simon). The not Decidueye, not Lycanroc, but Alolan Pokémon I am a little... skeptical of. But Isabelle and Ken (assuming he means Street Fighter Ken) are basically free now, so I believe he has accurate information but he can't constantly give us that, and the best reason I have to believe him is because it isn't a full roster leak. The only obvious fake leaks are the ones that claim to know the entire roster prior to October (close enough to release to truly compile the roster) or November (when it's possible for something like the ESRB leaks to happen again). It is possible he's banking on incredibly safe picks, but only Echoes are truly that level of safe anymore. I won't believe him 100% even if Isabelle and Ken happen, though, because the chances of them not getting in are so negligible as to basically be discarded, and because it's still possible we've got a Gematsu on our hands.

If not-Decidueye & not-Lycanroc Alola happens though he's legit 101%. Then all I can do is hope my most wanted is leaked. At all.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

As someone who was there at the time, really only Megaman could compare to Simon.


Pac Man was deemed 'having no moves' by most, everyone considered Cloud a meme, and Ryu.... well no one really thought about Ryu.

Nobody seems to learn anything with the “no moveset” mindset, Cloud I’m not surprised with, and I bet Capcom thought about him before Mega Man

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Nobody seems to learn anything with the “no moveset” mindset, Cloud I’m not surprised with, and I bet Capcom thought about him before Mega Man

I'm pretty sure Mega Man was Sakurai's top choice since he was the second most heavily demanded third party in Brawl other than Sonic (And Geno if you want to count that)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Wow.

Did I just see that the avatar character of a series about peaceful town living isn't a good example of not fighting in his/her series?

Did the reach just get that strong?

Of course he/she doesn't fight. He or she only wants to live and be friends with his/her neighbors.

He/she's the PERFECT example.

 

[Z25]

Alright I’m making a bold prediction here but I think this could actually be the final roster:

not echoes:
1)tails ( easily iconic pick and like I said best money match left)

2) heihachi( was considered in the past. I think he will take no time to make and been mainly done by Namco leading to nintendo to work on other fighters)

3)wonder red ( I think we will learn he’s a sleeper choice from the ballot. And he represents the Wii I era well as a character who has lots of potential but was handled poorly by creators(mainly Nintendo) just like the Wii U.

4) bandanna dee( this is obvious and needs no explanation)

5) Geno(again pretty self explanatory)

6) Incenroar or Tapu Koko. Both make a lot of sense but the former is probably in.

7) Chorus Kids( literally they would take no effort if I had to guess. I’m betting they saved the data from the last game for them for an easy newcomer)

8) Issac.( I’m hit or miss on this but he has the popularity)

9) Sora. I think the madman Sakurai will actually do it. He will ask to appease a lot of fans as a grand finale. On top of this, I actually bet Disney will go all in and help square provide content for them. Sora is such a cash grab and would be great promotion for Disney in general and square. I could see both parties go for this.

10) Banjo. Quite frankly I don’t fully buy it, but I do believe verge is right about Microsoft content. I can’t see that come
without a character.

11) another capcom character. Honestly I could see this with the mh content. It makes me think capcom will go in for another character. I don’t know if it will be the hunter( I doubt it because of them revealing the MH content already) or Phoenix or even Dante. But i think it could happen.

Skull kid( obvious enough)

12) maybe a retro. Again unsure on this but if it happens it’s Mach rider undoubtedly imo.

A few of these characters can definitely be take away but I think they could all see happen one way or another.

Echos:

1) isabelle

2)Shadow

3) Ken

4) Mrs. Pacman

5) Galactica Knight

6) Roxas( again I think Disney will support Sora big time I’m pretty sure Sakurai has mentioned liking Roxas before. So he would be an easy echo and is still pretty popular enough to earn it.)

So thoughts? This isn’t necessary for a base roster although I think it could happen. A few characters could easily be taken out but I listed them anyway. This roster would be big but minus echos it’s less then last smash and only a little only melee and close to brawl( I believe I don’t remember the jump from melee to brawl)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Wow.

Did I just see that the avatar character of a series about peaceful town living isn't a good example of not fighting in his/her series?

Did the reach just get that strong?

Of course he/she doesn't fight. He or she only wants to live and be friends with his neighbors.

He/she's the PERFECT example.

I don't trust someone that has a permanent smile fixed on their face and runs around with an axe. All I'm saying

 

[Will]

BANJO VS STEVE - A POINTLESS ESSAY​

It's so pointless I made my own custom template just to show how dedicated I am for such a pointless discussion.

EDIT: Decided to not spoiler the image because that's what's gonna draw people to read it maybe. If a mod's not okay with it just lock it up and sue or something idk how this works

So basically if you didn't read my post from a little while ago, I think Banjo and Steve are the biggest of the triad of Microsoft IPs, with the lowest end being Microsoft's own creation: Master Chief. But who would top out in Smash between the two? I got no ****in' idea I'm not Sakurai and I don't wanna pretend like I know the most probable outcome in a choice; because I don't. I'm not even a legal adult yet, I shouldn't be trusted with these options.
But what I can present is my stupid worthless opinion and a little bit of facts here and there to maybe help some others get their big high IQ brains going.

Spoiler: Banjo

Banjo first appeared in 1998 on the Nintendo 64, probably something you already know. But when Microsoft took that sweet sweet Rare IP, so did his ties with Nintendo. However, with Nintendo and Microsoft being all buddy buddy in recent years, this could be his chance at a new appearance for the first time in a decade.

Spoiler: Pros

What Banjo (and the unrelated Conker and that chick from Perfect Dark) has over all other Microsoft IPs, he does have a significant advantage in. That is his preexisting ties with Nintendo.

As the recent craze of bringing characters that have been requested in the same amount of time that Banjo has disappeared from the face of the planet (Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, and possibly more!), that could make his revival all the more imminent if the trend continues. Banjo may have scored really high on the Ballot, which will play a big role in his favor and is probably the biggest make-or-break he has. Many people are confident in his potential results.

Hell, even Phil Spencer said he wouldn't mind putting him in! That's surely a done deal, right?

Spoiler: Cons

Well, not really. Phil Spencer could've likely said the same about any big Microsoft IP, but he was only asked about Banjo specifically. Who knows what would've happened if he was asked to choose what character from Microsoft he would've wanted the most, but that's just his opinion and nothing more... like his tweet. Phil isn't the say all for these types of decisions, and what comes out in the end may not come exactly as Phil expressed his gratitude for.

Also, Banjo Kazooie isn't really as big of a hit in the East as it was in the West. As many as near 2 million units in North America is shaking between 450k to 550k in Japan (thats about 1/4 compared to NA sales). I know, I know, being in the game kind of makes that point obsolete if you see it as such, but it could be a big issue as I will talk about in our next character's descriptions.

Rare owns Banjo, but there are other series that are currently live and could be picked over Banjo. That is, Fulgore from Killer Instinct (or really anyone from that game) or Rash from Battletoads (which was both a character in KI and is in the new Battletoads remake coming next year). And both IPs have made their appearances on Nintendo consoles before, even on separate generations!

Spoiler: Steve

Steve is an unnamed enigma, but Minecraft's official release came out in 2009 on the PC. Microsoft grabbed the IP from Mojang a few years ago, and has been going strong in its advertising, making it one of the alltime best selling games that Microsoft owns. So what's so special about this enigma?

Spoiler: Pros

Let's get the obvious out of the way. Minecraft is huge; really huge. Holy **** it's one of the best selling games period. With over 100 million copies on its belt and continuously rising, this thing is nuts over the globe. This is not only true in the West, but also in the East, where Japan sales of the game have reached millions upon millions on the multiple platforms he has appeared on. Even Japan resident user Venus of the Desert Bloom mentions accounts of seeing children mention the game.

I try to teach my students “Arts and Crafts” but then they automatically scream out “Minecraft!” Extremely popular might of been a stretch but it’s pretty damn popular from what I can gather.

This is definitely a defining edge over Banjo, which is Minecraft's sheer popularity.

Did I mention multi-platform? Minecraft has made its way from PC, to Xbox, the Playstation, and of course, Nintendo consoles on the Wii U, 3DS, and Switch. Minecraft is everywhere, and if you want a system (and game) seller, Minecraft is the way to go in Smash Bros. I'm not suggesting Sakurai should go the money route, but if he sees fit, the madman may just.

Remember when I mentioned Nintendo and Microsoft being buddy buddy as of late? What game do you think started that? Certainly wasn't Banjo Kazooie. Minecraft and its crossplay feature for both Nintendo and Xbox consoles helped form a friendly relationship. Microsoft may have formed a circle around its game to be used, since its both its best selling and most recent familiar shared property with Nintendo at the moment.

Spoiler: Cons

As I've mentioned before, Steve is an enigma. He's not really a mascot, that goes more towards mob enemies such as the Creeper. It may not be wise to use such a generic avatar. I'm not a personal fan of this argument (due to ultcorrin: being just that), but you have to see both sides to remain truly neutral.

Minecraft may also conflict with the art style, as many as argued it to be too drab or "ugly" for Smash's design.

People are also reluctant to share the same audience as the shunned Minecraft audience, which includes various internet celebrities and waves of children.

Finally, the biggest hitter: the Smash Ballot. Banjo could have scored high, and as we've seen, the Ballot seems to take some type of priority over newer characters in some shape or form. If it's big enough, Minecraft definitely won't have a playable scene.

This is probably the biggest battle of Popular Nostalgia VS Popular Relevancy that I have seen for Smash character dilemma. No character is really a better choice than the other when it comes to how much they can qualify more than others. I can't say one character deserves a slot more than another because saying characters deserve to be in a crossover game is pretty dumb as is. It's mostly down to opinion on what you think.

"But Banjo obviously scored high on the polls! Steve never has a chance!", I hear one guy cry out.
​

That's what you may think. But remember how people talked about the big "meme" or "impossible" ballots, like Goku or Shrek. Allow me to wrap you in some tinfoil for a moment. Would you believe me if I told you that due to its large audience, Minecraft may have an impactful placing on the polls? Now it may seem pretty out of thought, because even I'm skeptical that enough kids are playing Smash Bros. to flood the market with Minecraft votes, but I don't believe that it's impossible. I'll let you think about that proposal, get a big thonker going on.

I hope my rambling gave some insight or maybe it was a fun read to look into.
or maybe i'm just dumb and wrong and nobody will even read it but who knows

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Now if its not a Gen 7 and the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak is somehow true..geez, I could just imagine the reaction to it if it was true but wasn't leaked..

On a related note, I'm curious how y'all would react if it was true. I'm not asking if you think it's true or fake, just what your reaction would be if it somehow was true.


Yeah, people thought he'd have made a good replacement for Snake and be a more fitting Konami rep in regards to Nintendo ties.

Definitely higher then Crash Bandicoot..his popularity didn't happen until after the N-Sane Trilogy gave him a sort of revival.

This actually makes me 100% believe if that Gardevoir leak is true, that they will be revealed in the next nintendo direct thats most likely next month. That way they get the most (apparently) underwelming choice of newcomers out the way first. I have a hard time seeing if this rumor is true of the characters being revealed in a smash direct (although Corrin was the tip of the iceberg when it came to dissapointment XD)

 

[Opossum]

Wow.

Did I just see that the avatar character of a series about peaceful town living isn't a good example of not fighting in his/her series?

Did the reach just get that strong?

Of course he/she doesn't fight. He or she only wants to live and be friends with his neighbors.

He/she's the PERFECT example.

Yeah, but it'd go against the anti-Isabelle narrative, and we can't have that, can we? ;p

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't trust someone that has a permanent smile fixed on their face and runs around with an axe. All I'm saying

Hell, at least Villager could potentially do violent things in his own series. Not that it matters, since s/he was never given a legitimate personality anyway. S/he did what you wanted. S/he wasn't kept from attacking other Villagers or doing mean things. That's the funny thing about blank-slate avatars. They're interesting because there's no real specific personality to worry about when it comes to incorporating them into other series. S/he has some emotes, but those vary from anger to happiness and everywhere else. Yet none that are a key factor to who it s/he is. At the end of the day, there's really nothing to go off of beyond a fun moveset that works, because Sakurai never had to worry about representing their personality wrong. Cause they kind of had none to begin with.

Just like he didn't with Isabelle's role. He found the most logical role for her at the time.

 

[vaanrose]

Well for one, your only counter argument to me was that maybe Microsoft lets them get Banjo in for Free cause free advertisement which is something I'm not even going to entertain. Yeah I didn't know about the board of directors until Ironfist and further research; your point? (It's called learning). Just because what I said about people not understanding the Microsoft x Nintendo situation about Minecraft and then correlating it with Banjo does not make it any less untrue. Its is a misconception that needs to corrected. Just because I am pointing it out does not mean I believe everyone is naive nor was there was such indication of me thinking everyone was naive. People will now have learned about why its wrong to blow the Microsoft/ Nintendo situation out of the water when my previous posts explains why.

You seem to have become annoyed for what I said which happens to be true. I will say it again because its true; yes people have been generalizing or don't know the context of the Minecraft / Nintendo situation and the reason I said it is because it's really common to hear that. Its a misconception. I don't know why you told me to Lighten up and call me Naive??? I even said it is fine to hope for his inclusion. What is not okay is people constantly bringing up Microsoft and Nintendo Minecraft situation when what is actually happening has little to do with them liking each other. I'm not going to just lie to you.

The point is that nobody knows the full complexity of what goes in to these decisions, myself included, but you're acting like you do, and you reacted very harshly to an actual, established example of one company giving another company the rights to their character, for free, just because it would increase the sales of their own product using that character. It does not mean Nintendo/Microsoft will make the same deal. It doesn't even mean the same deal is likely. But it's a clear precedent for two companies that no one ever thought would cooperate finally coming to a mutually beneficial agreement. The comparison is not half as "bizarre" as you think it is.

In fact, I'd guess it's likely the exact thing that occurred with Snake in Brawl. Imagine Kojima coming to Sakurai and saying "please put Snake in Smash, but also pay me for the privilege."

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm pretty sure Mega Man was Sakurai's top choice since he was the second most heavily demanded third party in Brawl other than Sonic (And Geno if you want to count that)

Mega Man definitely was the 2nd most requested 3rd party after the way too obvious Sanic, but I’d assume Capcom would’ve tried to have gotten Ryu in first due to giving him a slight push to being the sole face of Capcom (with MM barely holding on, doesn’t seem to be the case anymore)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Am I the only one that was purposely an asshole to certain villagers because I wanted them to move away so I could get one I liked?

 

[SonicMario]

Right. Who asked for those damn Mii Fighters!?

Cooooome on now don't be shy, raise your hand.

I kind of supported the Miis back in Smash 4. I wouldn't have been upset if they hadn't made it really I suppose. Just that when Wii Fit Trainer and the Villager made it. It seemed so obvious the Miis were going to get in one way or the other. I even remember when some were saying the Miis appearence in either or both the Find Mii stage and the part of a certain direct where they showed Miis during the introduction for Global Smash Power that it deconfirmed them as playable.

I'm still glad we have them back too. Helps very much with the kids who want impossible characters or even just casual fun play with friends playing as whoever the heck you want to play as whether it's a celebrity, yourself, or anything else. And I was very happy in particular when Tails got a mii costume since while it's no replacement for Tails actually getting in Smash. It was something I gladly took since it was probably the best that could happen anyway.

If that costume is also a sign he has a shot of being playable in Ultimate like a couple of other Mii Costumes have shown to be then it's even better. If Miis in a very indirect way bring me a playable Tails. I will forever be grateful for it heh.

Even if not, I'll stick to using Mii Gunner almost exclusively for the Tails costume anyway

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

No one was predicting Simom until Verg leaked him. Seriously, stop acting like anyone was expecting Simon, he was on nobody's radar, stop using hindsight as an argument.

No, no. No one was even expecting Snake. Snake was a veteran and people were thinking "No, he's never coming back. There's no way Konami will play ball," and then we got Snake. And now we have Simon. No one, at all, could've called that on a blind guess. Much like Smash For's Sal Romano leaks, Vergeben might not know everything 100% but saying he knows nothing is absolute denial.

Nobody seems to learn anything with the “no moveset” mindset, Cloud I’m not surprised with, and I bet Capcom thought about him before Mega Man

Mind you this was pre Street Fighter IV which was the game that pushed Ryu into Capcom's poster boy spotlight. Mega Man was still Capcom's biggest seller at this time and was more in the limelight than even Sonic. Sonic had some games going for him but Mega Man had been on every console Nintendo had since the NES and was as big then as he ever was with Mega Man 9 on the way in 2008. Sonic edged out Mega Man during this time BECAUSE of the rivalry, it was a boon to Sonic that handled just as well beside his current status on Nintendo and his overall popularity. Brawl was a crazy time dude, the announcement of Snake rocked the ****ing world. It was insane.

Alright I’m making a bold prediction here but I think this could actually be the final roster:

not echoes:
1)tails ( easily iconic pick and like I said best money match left)

2) heihachi( was considered in the past. I think he will take no time to make and been mainly done by Namco leading to nintendo to work on other fighters)

3)wonder red ( I think we will learn he’s a sleeper choice from the ballot. And he represents the Wii I era well as a character who has lots of potential but was handled poorly by creators(mainly Nintendo) just like the Wii U.

4) bandanna dee( this is obvious and needs no explanation)

5) Geno(again pretty self explanatory)

6) Incenroar or Tapu Koko. Both make a lot of sense but the former is probably in.

7) Chorus Kids( literally they would take no effort if I had to guess. I’m betting they saved the data from the last game for them for an easy newcomer)

8) Issac.( I’m hit or miss on this but he has the popularity)

9) Sora. I think the madman Sakurai will actually do it. He will ask to appease a lot of fans as a grand finale. On top of this, I actually bet Disney will go all in and help square provide content for them. Sora is such a cash grab and would be great promotion for Disney in general and square. I could see both parties go for this.

10) Banjo. Quite frankly I don’t fully buy it, but I do believe verge is right about Microsoft content. I can’t see that come
without a character.

11) another capcom character. Honestly I could see this with the mh content. It makes me think capcom will go in for another character. I don’t know if it will be the hunter( I doubt it because of them revealing the MH content already) or Phoenix or even Dante. But i think it could happen.

Skull kid( obvious enough)

12) maybe a retro. Again unsure on this but if it happens it’s Mach rider undoubtedly imo.

A few of these characters can definitely be take away but I think they could all see happen one way or another.

Echos:

1) isabelle

2)Shadow

3) Ken

4) Mrs. Pacman

5) Galactica Knight

6) Roxas( again I think Disney will support Sora big time I’m pretty sure Sakurai has mentioned liking Roxas before. So he would be an easy echo and is still pretty popular enough to earn it.)

So thoughts? This isn’t necessary for a base roster although I think it could happen. A few characters could easily be taken out but I listed them anyway. This roster would be big but minus echos it’s less then last smash and only a little only melee and close to brawl( I believe I don’t remember the jump from melee to brawl)

12 more new characters is a lot. Like a lot. This Roster is pretty jammin' though. Even if I'm not the biggest fan of Sonic's extended cast. Except Eggman, which we need but will never happen.

 

[Will]

Am I the only one that was purposely an ******* to certain villagers because I wanted them to move away so I could get one I liked?

Did you ever just reset a file because a villager you liked moved away? I had a guy on City Folk for about a year and a half. Threw it all away because a gymbro villager left. Museum was complete and everything, too.

 

[Z25]

No, no. No one was even expecting Snake. Snake was a veteran and people were thinking "No, he's never coming back. There's no way Konami will play ball," and then we got Snake. And now we have Simon. No one, at all, could've called that on a blind guess. Much like Smash For's Sal Romano leaks, Vergeben might not know everything 100% but saying he knows nothing is absolute denial.

Mind you this was pre Street Fighter IV which was the game that pushed Ryu into Capcom's poster boy spotlight. Mega Man was still Capcom's biggest seller at this time and was more in the limelight than even Sonic. Sonic had some games going for him but Mega Man had been on every console Nintendo had since the NES and was as big then as he ever was with Mega Man 9 on the way in 2008. Sonic edged out Mega Man during this time BECAUSE of the rivalry, it was a boon to Sonic that handled just as well beside his current status on Nintendo and his overall popularity. Brawl was a crazy time dude, the announcement of Snake rocked the ****ing world. It was insane.

12 more new characters is a lot. Like a lot. This Roster is pretty jammin' though. Even if I'm not the biggest fan of Sonic's extended cast. Except Eggman, which we need but will never happen.

I would love eggman but sadly he’s unrealistic. He could be like bowser jr but play pretty differently

 

[Wambo]

In fact, I'd guess it's likely the exact thing that occurred with Snake in Brawl. Imagine Kojima coming to Sakurai and saying "please put Snake in Smash, but also pay me for the privilege."

I'm not following along with the current conversation, but is that how the Snake thing went down? I know Kojima came to Sakurai about it, but was Kojima still paid for Snake's inclusion? With the way you put it, the whole situation sounds really weird to me now.

 

[N3ON]

As someone who was there at the time, really only Megaman could compare to Simon.


Pac Man was deemed 'having no moves' by most, everyone considered Cloud a meme, and Ryu.... well no one really thought about Ryu.

Geno and Bomberman were far more requested than Simon during Brawl and, frankly, right up until the leaks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mega Man definitely was the 2nd most requested 3rd party after the way too obvious Sanic, but I’d assume Capcom would’ve tried to have gotten Ryu in first due to giving him a slight push to being the sole face of Capcom (with MM barely holding on, doesn’t seem to be the case anymore)

Capcom USA and Capcom Japan are two separated companies. It's more likely Sakurai just wanted MegaMan more, as he could make him playable easier. He didn't make Ryu playable because he couldn't figure out a fun mechanic for him. So he went to Capcom Japan and there you go. Consideration doesn't require licensing, after all, only work on the character.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Did you ever just reset a file because a villager you liked moved away? I had a guy on City Folk for about a year and a half. Threw it all away because a gymbro villager left. Museum was complete and everything, too.

No, but I stopped playing New Leaf because I had an empty house for days and when the day when I could finally get a villager happened, some pink frog moved into that house! And one of the villagers I wanted was the one available to get (If I had an untaken house)

I was hoping if I left it long enough most of the villagers would move away and I could restart but with all my stuff

 

[Will]

Geno and Bomberman were far more requested than Simon during Brawl and, frankly, right up until the leaks.

What made Sakurai choose Simon over Bomberman anyhow? Is it gonna be one of those situations where it confirms the "they fit the AT role more" hivemind theory that'll keep Isabelle locked up?

 

[vaanrose]

I'm not following along with the conversation, but is that how the Snake thing went down? I know Kojima came to Sakurai about it, but was Kojima still paid for Snake's inclusion? With the way you put it, the whole situation sounds really weird to me now.

I don't know how it went down exactly, nor do I claim to. But it's pretty funny to imagine Kojima getting a paycheck for begging his character get put in Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What made Sakurai choose Simon over Bomberman anyhow? Is it gonna be one of those situations where it confirms the "they fit the AT role more" hivemind theory that'll keep Isabelle locked up?

Probably a moveset thing. Simon's moveset takes notes from Richter too. When you have a whip and weapons, it's likely easier to work with than just Bombs alone. Not saying Bomberman can't have a great moveset, but it's quite possible it was way harder to imagine an easy one that's also balanced.