Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[**Gilgamesh**]

I am not against Banjo being in, however we have to keep the perspective and actual situation real here. The best thing I believe BK fans can do is pressure Microsoft into making him both on the Switch and Xbox which I'll admit is a very tough sale. I

Also, it seems more Sony won't play ball, which is why Microsoft and Nintendo agreeing to Minecraft cross-play seems like a thing. For Phil Spencer, Sony not wanting to team up with Microsoft is an easy way to say "Hey, I don't mind some Nintendo-related crossover stuff" with his statements. It's great PR and makes the company look better. So take what you can, really.

But yeah, I think people read a bit too much into it. Though to correct something, Minecraft Switch actually does have a Banjo and Master Chief skin as well as the Halo Mash-Up Pack. Besides that, we did get a Nintendo system B&K game after Microsoft owned the series. Basically, I do think they might be willing to team up outside of Minecraft, but people are making it sound like it has a super good chance of happening with little evidence to suggest that. What we really seem to have a good chance of happening is Minecraft content in Smash at this point, but anything else is way up in the air. Though I do think the ballot can still help Banjo's chances. Not to say it will.

Best thing Smash Fans do is to pressure Microsoft into making Banjo multi platform or make Nintendo be okay with PAYING for his license and giving their direct competitor free advertisement. IDK it seems like a tough sale.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

At this point, I have no idea what we could get as a new character. The only one I see is Geno since he's one of the only Mii Costumes left from Smash 4 who hasn't been revealed as a character. Even then, as we've seen with Forest Maze being hidden in Brawl's code and Cloud only getting two Final Fantasy tracks, Square Enix seems to have a tight grip over their content.
My dream character, however, is Phoenix Wright, and speaking of which, WingedSupernova I need that stock icon in your signature in my life.

 

[Wambo]

I mean, this probably isn't the final number.


Verg's never been one to act like he knows the full story, see, K.Rool.

K.Rool was a VERY well-kept secret. I think characters like Geno, Skull Kid, Banjo would be as well.

EDIT: I just got on, but it seems like y'all are talking about Relax Alax's latest video with the guy who seems to be getting most of their predictions right.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And no one likes the mutant sidekick nerd apparently.

Must be all those times they were screwed out of a Chaos Emerald during the Sonic 2 Special Stages because of him. And his portrayal in games since Unleashed....

It's ok Tails, I support you in Smash!

I'd be furious if Knuckles and Shadow get promoted, but Tails is left banished to the loop in GHZ. I really think he deserves a playable slot most. It's not like Wario got added to smash before Luigi did...

 

[Nazyrus]

If it wasn't for fan demand, Sakurai would STILL have Ridley as a boss.

But I haven't heard a lot of fans DEMANDING Isabelle be playable

He goes for both things, we've clearly gotten characters we've asked for and never asked for.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Best thing Smash Fans do is to pressure Microsoft into making Banjo multi platform or make Nintendo be okay with PAYING for his license and giving their direct competitor free advertisement. IDK it seems like a tough sale.

You make it sound like there's pressure at all. If the ballot has Banjo high enough, Sakurai can talk with Nintendo and Microsoft over it. If it happens, if it happens. It's not pressure, it's just acknowledging popularity and seeing what's doable. It wouldn't even surprise me if Steve? became playable and Banjo got a Mii costume, akin to Cloud and Geno's situation.

 

[Deleted member]

Japan loves characters like Shadow but hates tough dude character like Knuckles for some reason

Americans love characters like Knuckles but hate edgy characters like Shadow for some reason

Yeah, that's certainly not true at all considering all the popularity polls I see of shonen manga.

 

[vaanrose]

Best thing Smash Fans do is to pressure Microsoft into making Banjo multi platform or make Nintendo be okay with PAYING for his license and giving their direct competitor free advertisement. IDK it seems like a tough sale.

Nobody actually has any idea how the licensing deals work. You're assuming Nintendo even has to pay for the license and isn't just given the rights to use the characters they ask for because it's free advertisement. If you think that's ridiculous, that's exactly how the Marvel/Sony Spider-Man deal is currently written. Marvel doesn't pay anything to use Spider-Man in the Avengers films, Sony just lets them use him because it ups the market visibility for their own Spider-Man films.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

He goes for both things, we've clearly gotten characters we've asked for and never asked for.

I don't think Isabelle is impossible. I just didn't think the specific example was accurate.

Really, I still wish I could have my "villager" character with Isabelle as the face of it, but an alternate costume that's Nook. Just gimme Nook, dang it!

 

[Momotsuki]

IMO Isabelle is very, very likely. She's not a 100% shoe-in, but her chances are much higher than most.​

 

[Opossum]

Vergeben believed a fake leak that said no DK characters were getting in. Even if he backtracked, the fact that he believed it for even a second means that he doesn't have the full roster, otherwise he would have instantly known that was BS.

He initially believed a fake leak that said that there will be no new DK characters, but he would later go back on that.

He asked loz if he believed it, he only changed his mind when he was told told that the person who tipped him off was a liar.

This is completely inaccurate and is a total misread of the situation.


Vergeben had asked LoZ if he'd heard anything about "No DK Characters" being a thing. He was asking another notably accurate leaker for corroboration. Given the person the claim came from, this is absolutely a good call. It's basic fact checking.

Then LoZ was an attention-grabbing moron and leaked the PM.

Vergeben never put faith into the claim; he was doing basic fact checking and because of an idiotic move by LoZ, it spread a ton of misinformation.

 

[zx9_sadboii]

People are talking about characters they want, but look at how much we have already. 900 compositions. 103 stages. King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, and Ridley. RIDLEY! We might even have Adventure Mode back. And I don't think we should expect too many new fighters, as we already have 9 new fighters(4 if you don't count echoes). I could see a few new fighters joining from now until release, but if you remeber that in the E3 presentation, Sakurai said "I hope you weren't expecting too many new challengers."

 

[Shroob]

People are talking about characters they want, but look at how much we have already. 900 compositions. 103 stages. King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, and Ridley. RIDLEY! We might even have Adventure Mode back. And I don't think we should expect too many new fighters, as we already have 9 new fighters(4 if you don't count echoes). I could see a few new fighters joining from now until release, but if you remeber that in the E3 presentation, Sakurai said "I hope you weren't expecting too many new challengers."

And then he dropped 5 on us in the last Direct.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Wait so, Capcom, Konami, and Sega would also get not only a 2nd Namco rep but also echoes too, yet Namco still so far only has 1 fighter. SE is very stingy so I understand they probably wouldn't get anyone new aside from Geno.

If my most wanted comes as well. then maybe a slim chance of Cless as an echo. I'm not exactly sure on Mrs. Pac-Man's situation right now.

 

[Zinith]

And then he dropped 5 on us in the last Direct.

I think they're compressing the newcomer reveals due to the shorter announcement-to-launch period

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Why would everybody believe any character could be made playable? That's silly. Everybody has different opinions on fighting potential. There's nothing wrong with that.

There's no point in getting up in arms about it and it's better to ignore an opinion you simply don't like. There's nothing to even prove. You're exhausting yourself over nothing that matters. Whatever happens happens. If she's playable, she's playable. If she's not, she's not. It doesn't matter either way, honestly.

Basically, don't worry about opinions that don't match your own. It's never worth going crazy over. It'll just stress you out when it won't matter regardless.

Nah. What I'm saying is we should be past the mentality that because a character is peaceful or assists in their series or what not?

That's all they can do in Smash Brothers. It's a weird weird weird mentality to have considering most of the cast.

And there's really no point in defending it or even having said mentality when Sakurai shows he doesn't care about that mentality at all.

So it doesn't even help you in speculation to have a mentality such as that.

 

[Noipoi]

This is completely inaccurate and is a total misread of the situation.


Vergeben had asked LoZ if he'd heard anything about "No DK Characters" being a thing. He was asking another notably accurate leaker for corroboration. Given the person the claim came from, this is absolutely a good call. It's basic fact checking.

Then LoZ was an attention-grabbing moron and leaked the PM.

Vergeben never put faith into the claim; he was doing basic fact checking and because of an idiotic move by LoZ, it spread a ton of misinformation.

I don't think Verg is 100% right and we should believe everything he says, but I can't recall a time where he's purposefully mislead anyone.

 

[Arcanir]

If it wasn't for fan demand, Sakurai would STILL have Ridley as a boss.

But I haven't heard a lot of fans DEMANDING Isabelle be playable

We have to consider that just because we haven't seen much of it doesn't mean it's not there. Chrom and Dark Samus were definitely more understated compared to Ridley or King K. Rool, but they definitely had a good amount of demand considering Sakurai blatantly states they were 'highly requested'. I can see a similar case for Isabelle where the demand is there, but it's just more quiet relative to other requests, especially since she has been one of the most heavily promoted Nintendo characters of the generation.

 

[Shroob]

I don't think Verg is 100% right and we should believe everything he says, but I can't recall a time where he's purposefully mislead anyone.

The thing about Verg is his info for OTHER games is usually wrong...

But he's batting 1000 for Smash.


It's really odd.

 

[Momotsuki]

The thing about Verg is his info for OTHER games is usually wrong...

But he's batting 1000 for Smash.


It's really odd.

If he can't provide a grain of evidence beyond "My sources say..." I refuse to pay the slightest bit of attention to anything he has to say. The same goes for these other "leakers."

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

LOL, /v/ started believing the fake addition to the Neogaf leak just because Verg said that Ken was in.

Even though it still has Soren as a Robin clone and Galacta Knight as a Meta Knight clone. Not to mention Terra when the FF section specifically says FF7

 

[TheGoobster]

Are you guys talking about the recent Neagaf leak?

 

[Noipoi]

The thing about Verg is his info for OTHER games is usually wrong...

But he's batting 1000 for Smash.


It's really odd.

He gets leaks from different sources right? Maybe his sources for other games are wrong, but his sources for Smash are right (for the most part)?

 

[TheGoobster]

LOL, /v/ started believing the fake addition to the Neogaf leak just because Verg said that Ken was in.

Even though it still has Soren as a Robin clone and Galacta Knight as a Meta Knight clone. Not to mention Terra when the FF section specifically says FF7

I'm looking at that exact thread as we speak, this HAS to be fake, right?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Nobody actually has any idea how the licensing deals work. You're assuming Nintendo even has to pay for the license and isn't just given the rights to use the characters they ask for because it's free advertisement. If you think that's ridiculous, that's exactly how the Marvel/Sony Spider-Man deal is currently written. Marvel doesn't pay anything to use Spider-Man in the Avengers films, Sony just lets them use him because it ups the market visibility for their own Spider-Man films.

1.) What the heck movies companie has to do with this?

2.) Marvel is you know the creator of Spider-Man. Marvel originally licensed Spider-Man to Sony. So it's nice that they don't make them pay but you do realize that Iron Man was in homecoming; how does that work? So Banjo in Smash for free and now Nintendo characters can pop in Microsoft owned games for free now too! Yeah no; in fact your comparison is so bizarre its hard for me to even compare it.


3.) Completely different spectrums. Microsoft is a DIRECT competitor with Nintendo. Why on goodness heavens do you think Microsoft would just give away their character for free all because of free advertisement not to mention they would actually have to pump out his games to fully benefit from it etc. Your dreaming if you think that could even remotely happen. That's not how that works.

4.) They paid money to own BK.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm looking at that exact thread as we speak, this HAS to be fake, right?

Probably. I don't even think that posted was the original poster of the thread.

Even if the Neogaf leak is true, that part was a later added addition.

Meta Knight wouldn't get a palette that looks MORE like Galacta Knight if Galacta Knight was going to be added

 

[Opossum]

If he can't provide a grain of evidence beyond "My sources say..." I refuse to pay the slightest bit of attention to anything he has to say. The same goes for these other "leakers."

What "evidence" do you honestly expect him to provide when it can put his source's livelihood at stake?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

He goes for both things, we've clearly gotten characters we've asked for and never asked for.

Do you mean so far or in general? So far we've gotten nothing but heavily requested characters in this game. Inkling, Ridley, K. Rool, and say what you will about Simon but he was one of THE most requested 3rd parties back in Brawl. I don't think EVERY character will be a huge, fandom shaking announcement but at this point it seems like that's what he's aiming for. Isabelle is also incredibly popular. People might not necessarily see her as a fighter per se but she's easily one of the most popular Animal Crossing characters if not THE most popular. It's no real surprise that she's likely for Ultimate. Incineroar might not be the most popular of the Gen 7 starters with fans but he is damn sure the most popular with Game Freak, etc. just look at all the spotlight he's getting in the anime!

I'm sure there's a couple more heavy-hitter deep-cuts like Isaac and Geno waiting to blow us away but then again Incinaroar and Isabelle are certainly not a pair of slouches. I'm also positive Ken and Shadow and more echoes in the same vein as them are on their way too so there's PLENTY more to look forward to besides potentially Incineroar and Isabelle.

Just realized this post comes off as kind of ranty and I quoted you in it Nazyrus. Not all that was meant directly to you. More so to the thread as a whole.

 

[Zinith]

If Ken gets in, will this be attributed to Verg?

 

[Shroob]

Probably. I don't even think that posted was the original poster of the thread.

Even if the Neogaf leak is true, that part was a later added addition.

Meta Knight wouldn't get a palette that looks MORE like Galacta Knight if Galacta Knight was going to be added

This is correct.

The 2nd and 3rd part of the Neogaf 'leak' were made by a 2nd individual.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Just when I thought I was gonna be on break until the next Nintendo Direct lol. Also I thought Verge wasnt too sure who the Pokemon rep was and just figured all stars alligned to Incineroar? If thats the case we still have a chance for a curveball pokemon rep like from that *cough* rumor *cough*

Combining everything I from our "leaker"gods...

New Pokemon Rep(s)
Skull Kid
Isabelle (E)
Ken (E)

 

[vaanrose]

1.) What the heck movies companie has to do with this?

2.) Marvel is you know the creator of Spider-Man. Marvel originally licensed Spider-Man to Sony. So it's nice that they don't make them pay but you do realize that Iron Man was in homecoming? So Banjo in Smash for free and now Nintendo characters can pop in Microsoft owned games for free now too! Yeah no; in fact your comparison is so bizarre its hard for me to even compare it.


3.) Completely different spectrums. Microsoft is a DIRECT competitor with Nintendo. Why on goodness heavens do you think Microsoft would just give away their character for free all because of free advertisement not to mention they would actually have to pump out his games to fully benefit from it etc. Your dreaming of you think that could even remotely happen.

I'm saying you have no idea how the licensing works, because you don't. You said yourself you didn't even know how a board of directors works until Iron Fist. Lighten up and stop acting like everybody else is the naive one here.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It still feels like they're destined to be Assist Trophies again though. This is especially true for Isabelle and her pure pacifist ways.

When you look at the other one-timer Zelda characters like Midna and Ghirahim, Skull Kid is definitely not safe from getting the Assist Trophy hammer again. Sure, there's the chance that he'll get the playable promotion, but it's NOT likely, but more possible.

And if you look at Shiek, also a one timer Zelda character (unless you count spinoffs...otherwise Midna would have to be included aswell), Skull Kid’s chances go back up to safety. He even has the “unintentional” hints and the current weird theme of villians getting in.

Also, being a pacifist didn’t stop Villager from joining the fight, so it wouldn’t stop Isabelle (especially if she does many or most of the attacks on accident)

Captain N will be in the game.

He will be an echo character of Captain Rainbow, making sure everyone is equally confused.

Then can have a full Palutena Guidance about the Captain N reunion, alongside and somewhat

 

[Paperchampion23]

People are talking about characters they want, but look at how much we have already. 900 compositions. 103 stages. King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, and Ridley. RIDLEY! We might even have Adventure Mode back. And I don't think we should expect too many new fighters, as we already have 9 new fighters(4 if you don't count echoes). I could see a few new fighters joining from now until release, but if you remeber that in the E3 presentation, Sakurai said "I hope you weren't expecting too many new challengers."

I think what people are expecting is if they can work on revamping 100+ stages or adding in 900 tracks with hundreds of updated or remixed music, people expect there to be more than 4-6 unique newcomers.


Not saying it's how I feel, but people do feel entitled still lol. And with there being 20+ possible characters that people want at any given time, toxicity over arguing who is in the roster (always an issue for smash) has been worse than ever, especially since we don't have to worry about Veterans this time.

Just important to remember this moving forward. The current smash roster is the absolute best it has ever been, and previously thought impossible newcomers like K. Rool and Ridley make it infinitely better, but people will always still argue and complain. Isaac and Geno have gotten my vote since the Brawl days, and still do, but I know that if they never were added, I'd be okay with everything we've gotten so far.

Overall, people need to just chill and enjoy what we get and play with in a new smash game, rather than be salty about not being able to play with their favorite character. Like, enjoy that the game is bigger and better than ever! We waste so much energy on hating each other for silly speculations.

 

[Blargg888]

If it was Incineroar, we'll have another character with flaming abilities like with i can go on & on.

Not hating on Incineroar by any means, but I'm just saying, things are gonna get hot around here. And, I guess its fine. No ice, not even earth abilities...

I mean, if we're talking "Characters that can use fire attacks" then you forgot:
GBSultryu:and
There are a ton of characters that can use fire in Smash.
One more wouldn't really change much.

Also, there are characters with ice abilities. Lucas and ICs. (And G&W's 8)

 

[Noipoi]

I mean I wouldn't complain.
Incineroar and Isabelle are two of my most wanted characters, Skull Kid is pretty cool, and I don't have a problem with Ken either.
This "leak" is fine by me.

 

[Starbound]

He gets leaks from different sources right? Maybe his sources for other games are wrong, but his sources for Smash are right (for the most part)?

I saw a theory earlier this month that Verg has a source with Namco.

Which I can see as his Namco-related leaks have been on point, while his others have been less so.

If Ken gets in, will this be attributed to Verg?

We are all kind of seeing it coming but it would still be a correct pick for Verg.

 

[Momotsuki]

What "evidence" do you honestly expect him to provide when it can put his source's livelihood at stake?

Whether it's reasonable or not to expect him to prove what he's saying, I still won't pay him any mind without it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If the next trailer happens and only Ken is revealed of Verg's choices, I'm not sure I can CREDIT Verg. It's a safe choice for an echo.

If Incineroar or Isabelle gets in I'll credit him, but idk about Ken

 

[TMNTSSB4]

say what you will about Simon but he was one of THE most requested 3rd parties back in Brawl

For real? He was among the likes of Crash and others?