Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

I'm 19 and the first time I ever heard of Banjo was in a JonTron video back in, what, 2013/14?

Plus I think Konami is on damage control and trying to win back support. Letting Sakurai go nuts with it in Smash is a good way to do so 'cause look how bad Square looks when they give the bare minimum and nothing more.

Maybe they could capitalize on it and make a goddamn new Castlevania game?

 

[PlugMeister]

I wonder if anyone that isn't bordering on 30 likes Banjo

18-year-old here, yeah, Banjo-Kazooie was one of my first video games alongside Smash 64. Love that bear and bird.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm 19 and the first time I ever heard of Banjo was in a JonTron video back in, what, 2013/14?

Maybe they could capitalize on it and make a goddamn new Castlevania game?

Even a re-release of the WiiWare remake of Castlevania: The Adventure would be nice.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I wonder if anyone that isn't bordering on 30 likes Banjo

I had a high school friend who brought up that he loved Banjo Kazooie music once. I don't know his exact age but he should be around 20 right now.

 

[Zinith]

Does 27 count as "bordering on 30?"

But even then I didn't own a N64 at the time. It was PlayStation for me

 

[RandomAce]

I wonder if anyone that isn't bordering on 30 likes Banjo

Hmmm... I’m half that age and am an example of a more younger person here.

No. Sadly I don’t think a lot of people that haven’t existed during the N64 era liked him a lot. They seem bland when you compare him to other characters that came after him, heck someone like Isaac seems more interesting to me compare to him.

I think designs have changed over time. He came from a time where they made a crap load of characters for the sake of having a mascot, mostly using animals and they certainty haven’t aged well.

Banjo seems to be an exception of this rule, but he really has little traits that give him character that people are about these days like Shulk or whatever.

I wouldn’t be mad that he got in, in fact I would be pretty happy since there’s nothing like having a character a part from an old era finally be a part of the Nintendo cast.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I'm 19 and the first time I ever heard of Banjo was in a JonTron video back in, what, 2013/14?

I was introduced to the two by my brothers when I was in the lower grades (around 10 years, methinks), so I say to you, we all gotta start somewhere when it comes to these sort of things. If you have an XBOX (One or 360) or an eBay account at the ready, I recommend getting into them just to see what makes them so endearing.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I wonder if anyone that isn't bordering on 30 likes Banjo

How well did rare replay sell? assuming it sold well then that remake probably familiarized him with younger audiences at least a little

 

[pupNapoleon]

First Bomberman's creator, now Heihachi's voice actor


I question if both of these were planned in advance at this point

Sounds like another leak I missed.

What happened!?

 

[Will]

Does 27 count as "bordering on 30?"

You're definitely more 30 than 20

How well did rare replay sell? assuming it sold well then that remake probably familiarized him with younger audiences at least a little

The whole gimmick with releasing earlier titles is less "the young can experience the past" and more "nostalgia bucks pwwweeeaaassseee"

 

[Deleted member]

I was introduced to the two by my brothers when I was in the lower grades (around 10 years, methinks), so I say to you, we all gotta start somewhere when it comes to these sort of things. If you have an XBOX (One or 360) or an eBay account at the ready, I recommend getting into them just to see what makes them so endearing.

Eh, I'm not that big of a fan of that style of game. I prefer linear platformers most of the time.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

25 here. I grew up playing Banjo's first two games and one on the GBA

Then I boycotted the Xbox system (and of now, still never fascinated with Xbox) when my peers went all Halo. So I guess it's a good thing I didn't check his latest game lol

 

[DevaAshera]

Sounds like another leak I missed.

What happened!?

Not a leak, they passed away.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Sounds like another leak I missed.

What happened!?

Here's some context from a few pages ago:

Random thought… it's probably stupid thing to think about, but believe me when i say i don't have the intention of being disrespectful at all not even by accident, it's just a random idea that came to my mind…

With the passing of our dear Ishizuka Unshou, japanese VA of characters known like Proffesor Oak and Heihachi… If Heihachi is/was ever actually a thing to begin with, would it be too unlikely for Nintendo to have the announcement of the character moved closer to us now, like, let's say gamescom, and at the same time we would get a tribute message to our guy at the end of the reveal trailer. Would that be an unlikely thing for Nintendo to do? Just curious for your thoughts. I don't even care about Heihachi, it's just something that happened to come to my mind.

 

[justPUNT3R]

25 here. I grew up playing Banjo's first two games and one on the GBA

Then I boycotted the Xbox system (and of now, still never fascinated with Xbox) when my peers went all Halo. So I guess it's a good thing I didn't check his latest game lol

i haven't played a single banjo-kazooie game.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I have never played a Banjo Kazooie game and I still think they deserve a spot in Smash

 

[Will]

25 here. I grew up playing Banjo's first two games and one on the GBA

Then I boycotted the Xbox system (and of now, still never fascinated with Xbox) when my peers went all Halo. So I guess it's a good thing I didn't check his latest game lol

Xbox really isn't doing too hot actually, the only real thing I can think about that's making people remember that it even exists (for exclusives) still is Halo, Gears of War, and a bunch of Rare titles that are suddenly being revived. I mean, the only way I could ever see it being a big hitter still is if it made ****ing Minecraft an exclusive for no reason. A lot of COD kids I know are moving on to PS4 versions of FPS as well. pretty concerning stuff.

deserve a spot in Smash

Are you trying to kill me? "deserves" and "Smash" in the same sentence is the vampire killer to my Dracula

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I grew up with the NES first. I also had an N64 a bit later on. Banjo & Kazooie, while good, never really did much for me to begin with. It was nice. But there were other N64 games that did way more for me.

 

[MainJPW]

I have never played a Banjo Kazooie game and I still think they deserve a spot in Smash

Yeah, I also think that Banjo Kazooie... deserves a spot. They really... earned it.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Are you trying to kill me? "deserves" and "Smash" in the same sentence is the vampire killer to my Dracula

So...Simon Belmont will slay you?

 

[UltimateWario]

I’m 26 and grew up with the original Banjo games, played them to the point that I could probably still easily 100% them both by memory. Played Nuts and Bolts when it came out and loved the vehicle creation but was confused as to why they needed to put Banjo on it. Now I know that it was because Rare was desperate for one of their games to sell so they had to lean on a beloved intellectual property. Despite its many flaws I think Nuts and Bolts is a fun game that was **** on 99% because it was a Banjo game and 1% because of any actual flaws the game had.

I’d be happy with Banjo in Smash as I think he’s more fun and unique than many of the newer characters that were added in 4, and he fits a lot better than someone like Bayonetta or Cloud, but I’m mostly indifferent to him not being there.

Banjo’s time has come and gone, for better or worse. I’d much rather he be remembered as a beloved relic of his era than a complete embarrassment and a has-been who repeatedly tries to recapture a magic that just isn’t there anymore. That’s not to say he couldn’t still be in Smash (since there are SEVERAL characters already playable who fit that previous depressing bill) but I’m not really expecting some grand revival.

Maybe Banjo will get an HD Remake down the line like his contemporary cousins Crash and Spyro and he’ll be DLC around that time. I could see Microsoft allowing Rare to put it on the Switch since it would easily sell the most there and Microsoft is more lax with its exclusives than the other companies.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yeah, I also think that Banjo Kazooie... deserves a spot. They really... earned it.

Don’t get me wrong, it’ll never happen unless Microsoft and Sakurai both allow it...but they definitely earned a spot for a future game (before they got bought out and “died”)...they got 21 more years left to join

 

[Llort A. Ton]

18 y/o here, I played Banjo Kazooie on N64 when I was 10 and loved it. Granted, I got it because my N64 and a whole lot of my N64 games were hand me downs from my older brothers born in '82 and '85, so I wouldnt have known about BK until much later if it werent for them.

 

[Will]

I think I only want Fulgore because I got handed down a SNES and I got Killer Instinct with it.
i was bad at it but oh boy did i think fulgore looked badass

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Time to give impressions of the new characters!! I will give them a ranking in my predictions of their viability. Of course this is just theory, general history of good traits that makes characters good, what was shown and all is subjected to change in the final build + potential patches etc.

Terms Used (I will not explain these terms; look it up if you must).
- Neutral
- Advantage
- Disadvantage
- Zoning
- Zoner
- Rushdown
- OoS
- Punish
- Gimping
- Edgeguarding
- Spacing
- Endling Lag / FAF
- Landing Lag
- Start-Up

Chrom [Rank: 8/10 --> 6.5/10 if recovery is exploitable]
- Chrom seems to have no tipper mechanic unlike Roy which is honestly scary considering Roy was held back by inverse tipper and Smash4 defensive power. This will allow Chrom to consistently kill and have not to worry about being punished for applying maximum space.

- Up-B if exactly like Ike's is a worse recovery than Roy since Ike Rangell no longers goes through the stage and the fact he doesn't have a side-b recovery. He should have more airspeed than Ike though. Chrom will also be combo food just like Roy is which hurts him equally.

- Chrom will probably have a better neutral and advantage state than Roy while possibly having a easier time getting gimped and edge-guarded compared to him. How exploitable his recovery is compared to Roy will determine if he'll straight up outclass him. Up-B potentially a out of shield option!!

Dark Samus [Rank: 7.5/10
- Dark Samus honestly seems like a straight up upgrade over Samus. Dark Samus roll is significantly better than Samus along with having a dash attack that seems to combo. Regular Samus was probably one of the worst characters in the demo as they straight up nerfed her dash attack, and uair. Midair charging only goes so far. Due to Dark Samus having a near identical kit practically and the fact Samus remains the same (excluding the nerfs); I can't say she will be super good. High tier at best and thus a 7.5 rating. Normal Samus would probably be a 4/10.

Simon Belmont [Rating: 9/10 if his overall frame data isn't bad + combo potential otherwise 7.5/10]
-Simon easily seems to be the likeliest newcomer to become a Top Tier (besides Inkling). The fact that he can follow up after cross holy water allows him in theory to be a very effective zoner that actually gets rewarded. Extremely long range allows him to easily outspace other fighters + he can angle his fair (potentially all aerials?!). He has a dive kick in the air (that might Combo?) and a down tilt similar to Clouds that can be used as a burst option AND potential Combo starter /pressure which is great considering his walking speed looks utterly atrocious. Simon most likely will have slow mobility. Simon Uppercut also seems like a good OOS option as well. Axe has uses offstage. Simon will most likely give characters who struggle with swordies and zoners hell (etc.) which means his only concern will mostly be rushdown characters and other good zoners.

-Simon biggest apparent weakness is that his startup frame data on his moves are on the slower side which allows for him to be pressured effectively by faster characters. Just how bad/good his frame data is in relation to his extremely long range will decide just how good he is and thus the uncertainty. Has high potential. Need to position himself well to be effective.

King K. Rool [Rating: Firstly he was the least flashed out character to be reveal so it's quite hard for me to analyze him. We was shown his Fair, DSmash, Fsmash, Neutral-B, Side-B, Up-B, Down-B, and Dash Attack. Lack of aerials, rolls, jab, grab and tilts makes it very hard to rate but given how his moves looks and apparent frame data my initial impression rating shall be.... 5/10 (can either go up or down depending on the rest of his moves and when he gets analyzed next time.)

- King. K Rool first off lowers his profile when he dashes which is a good thing considering how massive he his. He is less prone to getting hit as a result when dashing. He also has 2 form of projectiles along with a semi command grab in neutral B which should in theory allow him to have some form of range game in the neutral. His neutral-B seems to be his best one and hopefully you can angle his side-b otherwise RIP. Dash Attack has Super armor which allows him to punish spammers and potentially zone break zoners/campers but it has a ton of endlag. This move should used with a clear and constant read in mind. Down-Smash burries which should allow him to get a heavy punish at higher percents. F-Smash and counter are meh. Fair seems to be a meaty move and powerful but without landing lag numbers; the extent of the usefulness of this move is unknown. K.Rool should be able to b-reverse which will aid in his disadvantage.

-K.Rool first issue that he is massive and fat which allows him to be brutally punished by certain characters and comboed very hard, not to mention the potential of camping, however he seems to have some counterplay with camping. His Up-B seems really bad if it has no hitbox at all and will hurt his viability a LOT (it may have armor like Snakes hopefully which would help a LOT). Even with a hitbox on the helicopter; the vulnerability on his side will still persist. It will probably go decently far so at least he can make it back. Side-B also seems pretty bad and the only hope of this move is if K. Rool is able to act after throwing it akin to Simon along with being able to angle it. Lord forbid if he is stuck in the animation as the move is reactable not to mention characters can just jump or shield it. At least it hits coming back. Villager can apparently pocket it. He has a counter......meh.
Fair seems to have some startup and ending lag as well. Frame Data from what was shown was on the slowest side.

- K. Rool was the character that stood out as lacking. Nothing that was shown stood out as really good. K. Rool still has a bunch of moves not shown and thus this analysis is purely on what was shown. Due note it only take a couple of super good moves to change the character. K.Rool could certainly be much better if he had a grab combo/ kill throw/ grab kill setup. Did I mention tilts/jabs and the rest of his aerials were not shown? Take my rating and impressions based off of what was shown. Can easily change for K. Rool although he is a super heavyweight.

 

[Will]

Alright, here's a real question here:

It's like 2025 and Smash 6 is finally revealed. Echoes are a thing, and so is Chrom, but Roy is out and for some psychic reason we know he's out of base for good. Is Chrom still considered an Echo? If Roy came back through DLC, would he be an Echo of his own Echo?

 

[Arcadenik]

I just hope that if Banjo-Kazooie is in, they use the original N64 design and not the Xbox design. Rare design looks better than Microsoft redesign.

They used the original designs for Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Simon Belmont in Smash, why not Banjo-Kazooie too?

And it would be awesome if they used the original N64 design for Conker Assist Trophy.

 

[Maxoxpower]

want to talk again about this 2nd MUSHROOM icon..
Sakurai said that you can use EVERY SONG for a serie for EVERY stages of a series.

don't think you cannot use mario kart in a mario stage

i'm sure this mean PLACEHOLDER and this is 1 new unseen serie that is yet to reveal.
( golden sun...third party or whatever it is)

 

[Will]

I just hope that if Banjo-Kazooie is in, they use the original N64 design and not the Xbox design. Rare design looks better than Microsoft redesign.

They used the original designs for Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Simon Belmont in Smash, why not Banjo-Kazooie too?

And it would be awesome if they used the original N64 design for Conker Assist Trophy.

They've always done it, why would they make Banjo the black sheep?

Pac-Man's design also isn't the original, that's really his Final Smash. Pac-Man's design is really his third one from Pac-Man World series (or really just the early 2000s before Ghostly Adventures haunted our nightmares).

 

[Zinith]

want to talk again about this 2nd MUSHROOM icon..
Sakurai said that you can use EVERY SONG for a serie for EVERY stages of a series.

don't think you cannot use mario kart in a mario stage

i'm sure this mean PLACEHOLDER and this is 1 new unseen serie that is yet to reveal.
( golden sun...third party or whatever it is)

I question why it's between the other Mario symbol and DK though...

 

[Will]

I question why it's between the other Mario symbol and DK though...

Where else are you gonna put it? In the middle?

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I think I only want Fulgore because I got handed down a SNES and I got Killer Instinct with it.
i was bad at it but oh boy did i think fulgore looked badass

Badassery is a fair justification for wanting a newcomer (main reason i would love Nightmare from Soul Calibur). Unfortunately the Killer instinct is nowhere to be found these days. I wonder why, it was such a good fighting game. Especially the graphics, they had that Rareware quality to it.

 

[UltimateWario]

Badassery is a fair justification for wanting a newcomer (main reason i would love Nightmare from Soul Calibur). Unfortunately the Killer instinct is nowhere to be found these days. I wonder why, it was such a good fighting game. Especially the graphics, they had that Rareware quality to it.

Wasn’t that new one really super good though? Never played it but it looked damn solid. That wasn’t that long ago.

 

[Will]

Unfortunately the Killer instinct is nowhere to be found these days.

Boy have I got a 2013 reboot for you.

 

[Zinith]

Where else are you gonna put it? In the middle?

If it was a placeholder, I would put it after Castlevania. Cause that's what a "placeholder" is...

 

[Deleted member]

Alright, here's a real question here:

It's like 2025 and Smash 6 is finally revealed. Echoes are a thing, and so is Chrom, but Roy is out and for some psychic reason we know he's out of base for good. Is Chrom still considered an Echo? If Roy came back through DLC, would he be an Echo of his own Echo?

Asking the real questions here. If Roy's out and Chrom's in, Chrom can't be an echo because he has no one to echo, so yeah, I guess Roy would become an echo of his echo if he came back at that point.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pac-Man's design also isn't the original, that's really his Final Smash. Pac-Man's design is really his third one from Pac-Man World series (or really just the early 2000s before Ghostly Adventures haunted our nightmares).

This is Pac-Man's original design in Japan.

 

[Will]

If it was a placeholder, I would put it after Castlevania. Cause that's what a "placeholder" is...

But unfortunately you're not putting placeholders in places. You could argue that it's Geno's, but why would you do so much to make it separate? It seems just as easy to just plop it at the beginning and tell the devs "hey don't touch this yet". They even skip it on purpose when selecting the series, meaning there's more to it than just more Mario.

This is Pac-Man's original design in Japan.

View attachment 158566

Spoiler: kinda big image

well ****

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I'm starting my Junior year of High School on Monday, and so far in all of my past school years I have never heard the name Banjo-Kazooie uttered by anyone even once.

When I was in Elementary School I remember Mario, Kirby, Pokemon, and Sonic were all pretty popular. Legend of Zelda became fairly popular too though that didn't happen until Middle School for me. Only other Smash series I can think of that has been brought up is Pac-Man, but of course it's only ever concerning the original arcade game.

 

[Zinith]

But unfortunately you're not putting placeholders in places. You could argue that it's Geno's, but why would you do so much to make it separate? It seems just as easy to just plop it at the beginning and tell the devs "hey don't touch this yet". They even skip it on purpose when selecting the series, meaning there's more to it than just more Mario.

I don't think we're disagreeing here. I don't think it's anything. If they can hide already confirmed characters from the demo (more than half), why would they just leave a placeholder for the music?