Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Are we still on this Gothitelle thing? I thought we shut it down already because of Mr. Vampire man over here .

 

[UltimateWario]

Gardevoir with a Gothitelle makes perfect sense.

Care to explain how?

Gardevoir has been relevant in two generations. Neither of those were used as opportunities to add her to Smash Bros. She is popular but not massively so, she is not extensively marketed, nor has there ever been monstrous outcry for her to be playable in Smash Bros. like Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, or Geno.

Gothitelle is not only unpopular but actively disliked. I have never seen anyone say their favorite Pokemon is Gothitelle - I’ve never seen anyone even TALK about Gothitelle. Even if Gardevoir were to be a playable character, Gothitelle is the most contrived “we need an echo of this character even if nobody wanted one” choice of all time.

Richter is easily the second most popular Belmont, as well, apparently even more popular in Japan, likely because of his role in Symphony of the Night. If you wanted a playable character that used the Vampire Killer that wasn’t Simon, it would be Richter 95% of the time.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The fact that Simon wasn't there and Richter wasn't classified as an Echo should kill this argument outright, but you're going to try to find some circular logic about "RICHTER WAS THE ORIGINAL CHARACTER" or something.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you're not good at predicting the future. Turns out I know what I'm gonna say better than you do.

My explanation, is that the data isted was probably inconsistent for any number of reasons, possibly because it was merely a demo build. There's also the possibility that it was mined or read incorrectly by the leaker. The leaker was merely making guesses based on a vague list of names.

You're just claiming that there are inconsistencies, therefore we have to throw the whole thing out, but you're ignoring what it got right that nobody else knew about.

I gotta say, I'm sensing a lot of bitterness and aggression towards this, which further leads me to believe that people just don't want it to be true and are looking for anything to justify throwing the whole thing out. There are plenty of leaks with minor inconsistencies that turn out to be true. Like the E3 leak. Simon was never shown off and Daisy was never mentioned in the leak.

At this point, I think he just wants the leak to be right to rack in those sweet Youtube views. The first part has nearly 100k views.

You know what? If Gothitelle somehow makes her way into the roster, I'm going to make this my avatar for a full year;

Ew.

Please Lord let the leak be false.

See what I mean?

 

[PeridotGX]

This is a pretty basic question, but what are your guys' favorite stage that we know of thus far? Mine is Fountain of Dreams, with New Pork City coming a close second place.

All the redone 3DS stages are gorgeous. I always loved it's stage roster, glad to see almost all of it in HD (I wish we still had Rainbow Road though.

So if you were the game director, which series would be overrepped?
For me, Donkey Kong and Pokémon.

Pokémon would have 20 or so characters (And a cut Charizard) and Kirby would have 15. Also Scribblenauts gets the love Castlevania got this time, and all the stages I made for the Stage Contest are in.

 

[Dixie Kong]

You know what? If Gothitelle somehow makes her way into the roster, I'm going to make this my avatar for a full year;
Image
Ew.

Please Lord let the leak be false.

 

[MainJPW]

I would give Sonic so many unique characters it wouldn't even be funny.

Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Metal Sonic, Amy Rose, Shadow, Team Chaotix as a trio... don't even get me started.

Also Donkey Kong:

Dixie, Funky, Cranky, Tiny, Lanky, Jr. and Kiddy.

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games? More like Mario & Sonic at Dairantou Smash Brothers.

I wonder how you would make that Team Chaotix trio work.

 

[staindgrey]

Lack of any support when most if not all newcomers so far have been characters frequently requested. Gardevoir has been a popular pokemon I've seen have support for a long time, so it getting in wouldn't surprise me. BUt Gothitelle getting in is kind of surprising considering the pattern we've seen. It'd literally just be to slap an echo on Gardevoir

Oh, I understand why she wouldn't be likely for Smash. I'd never considered her a possibility. Rather, I was questioning the raw hatred for Gothitelle oozing from that post I quoted.

 

[Shroob]

Sorry to disappoint you, but you're not good at predicting the future. Turns out I know what I'm gonna say better than you do.

My explanation, is that the data isted was probably inconsistent for any number of reasons, possibly because it was merely a demo build. There's also the possibility that it was mined or read incorrectly by the leaker. The leaker was merely making guesses based on a vague list of names.

You're just claiming that there are inconsistencies, therefore we have to throw the whole thing out, but you're ignoring what it got right that nobody else knew about.

I gotta say, I'm sensing a lot of aggression towards this, which further leads me to believe that people just don't want it to be true and are looking for anything to justify throwing the whole thing out. There are plenty of leaks with minor inconsistencies that turn out to be true. Like the E3 leak. Simon was never shown off and Daisy was never mentioned in the leak.

So your argument is "I really don't know, I'm going to just blindly trust this rando on 4chan and hope for the best."

You're right, you're sensing aggression because people like you and Papa won't let it go and bring it up all the damn time, which ends up spreading confusion to the people who don't frequent this thread often.


I WANT Gardevoir, but this is obnoxious, you two are driving it into the ground.

 

[Will]

Burning that trash out

Burning the trash means you just removed all traces of Roy. What have you done you madman?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Oh, I understand why she wouldn't be likely for Smash. I'd never considered her a possibility. Rather, I was questioning the raw hatred for Gothitelle oozing from that post I quoted.

I think its more hatred for the constant talks about the leak than the char

 

[Iridium]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/97p4we/each_training_mode_block_seems_to_be_10cm_x/

So, what do you all think of this? Accurate measurements may mean a lot for knowing how easy an opponent is to hit.

But RIDLEY though.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Care to explain how?

I already did like five times. If you go to the search bar at the top of this website, type Gardevoir, and in the member section type By: TheLastJinjo.

 

[staindgrey]

I mean, I guessed Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, Ridley, Richter, and Simon as being characters...I've guessed several characters on top of that too. Guess that makes me a leaker then correct? Since, these "leaks" can apparently just guess anything and if they get one thing right they are real. Btw since I am a leaker I might as well tell you two characters...I can guess these characters because I worked at a demo booth and I got my hands on a demo because it was completely unprotected and I went into the files and you'll never believe was I saw! GOEMONSU and GENU. I think these mean Goemon and Geno are characters!

Here's the thing (to me, anyway). If I were a leaker, I'd be content simply knowing the information is out there, and that I said it. I wouldn't be actively trying to defend the leak or prove myself right. I'd just leave the information out there and wait.

So when a leaker is actively trying to defend their information, I choose not to believe it.

 

[JLU51306]

Oh, so we're talking about the data-mine leak? Just because it said Richter and not Simon doesn't disqualify it either. Absence of information isn't good enough evidence to prove something wrong. I'm not saying I think this particular leak is true, but what I am saying is it can't be dismissed entirely on that point.

 

[Ignoritus]

Gardevoir with a Gothitelle echo makes perfect sense. That's why I specifically asked that we give other reasoning other than our personal opinions about the characters being playable. Because it's subjective and just makes us sound like we do or don't want the leak to be true and are choosing whether or not to believe it.

The whole "bias" accusation falls apart when you realize I could care less whether or not Gothitelle/Gardevoir are in. Hell, I think they'd be neat. But what it comes down to, is that if Gardevoir is the original and designed without giving it an echo in mind it would almost certainly have moves that Gothitelle can't reproduce such as any Fairy type moves or anything that requires using its long legs. Could it work? With a bit of work, easily yeah. But why in the world would they put in that extra work to make it happen when literally no one was asking for it?

But forget about it, whether or not that's a viable idea has less to do with the viability of this leak compared to the other reasons that it's not worth believing.

Like I said before, my point was not that it revealed King K. Rool and Dark Samus in the same direct. It revealed Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus, in the same direct.

If it had just been King K. Rool and Dark Samus, you could say that's a coincidence. But, you're not gonna convince me that Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus together were all coincidentally confirmed only a month later.

And my entire point is that this isn't someone with any credibility or reputation to put on the line coming out and saying that Richter is in the game. It's someone posting on 4chan a fake leak that they have no consequences if they're wrong about but rope people in with if they make lucky guesses. Literally hundreds of them are made in mass because they all know that no matter how many are proven fake so long as they get a lucky guess on something hard to predict (Richter) alongside a few easy, safe choices (D. Samus and K. Rool), people will start talking about them.

And the only reason Simon wasn't mentioned was because the leaker (for whatever reason and there are dozens of possibilities) didn't see it.

...Except for the part where this leaker explictly said Simon wasn't in the game? Ask yourself, would you give any other leak this sort of charity to get something completely wrong and then just say "they just didn't see it"?

 

[N3ON]

I already did like five times. If you go to the search bar at the top of this website, type Gardevoir, and in the member section type By: TheLastJinjo.

Ok

I desperately want this leak to be true, so I post this picture of Gardevoir and Gothitille as a prayer.
View attachment 157665

And therein lies the essence of his argument.

 

[Enchess]

So if you were the game director, which series would be overrepped?
For me, Donkey Kong and Pokémon.

I can honestly say none. I'd have a strict 2 unique, 2 echoes per series hard cap. Even Mario would only have Mario (Luigi echo) and Bowser (Bowletta echo for some RPG representation).

 

[Shroob]

Ok

And therein lies the essence of his argument.

Oh **** son

 

[papagenos]

What do you think "right IP, wrong character" means?
It means Yeah dude it's only Richter yep no Simon Simon isn't in too bad so sad Richter baby, not Richter and maybe Simon.

but thats ignore the story itself that goes with the leak and taking it as pure facts instead of thinking WHY he'd say that. he didnt see simon. simon wasnt in the data. thats it. your taking it at face value.

1.richter is worked on first, this even fits sakurai saying whos really an echo of who it may have happened in development this way we even have a supporting statement from sakurai to come to that conclusion.

2.its supposedly a demo copy and hes looking at left over data to find some names that got left behind in the code. he says at the end not all characters were probably in the data.

3.we know sakurai doesnt make full builds of the game in development.

im legit getting gematsu flashbacks here.

 

[Idon]

Alright alright, I'm gonna nip the bud on this leak.
The reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that Gothiettle is an echo of gardevoir is...

she's got stubby little legs, boi.

 

[Chandeelure]

When will Bandana Dee appear in a decent leak so I can blindly believe it?

 

[Zinith]

Ok

And therein lies the essence of his argument.

And even then I don't get that mindset. If a leak had Boshi in it, I'd STILL scrutinize it

 

[ZephyrZ]

See what I mean?

Alright, yeah, I'm biased and also being unusually aggressive. But it drives me mad seeing so many people put so much stock in something that suspicious. It's just a huge pet peeve of mine.

I also get really angry when people believe insane conspiracy theories and """ghost""" sightings they found on the web.

 

[DarkFalcon]

What a hot mess this thread is. Here's a tip we can all take to heart. Any random stranger could have typed up a "leak" at any moment in their spare time. There's thousands of people doing this. The odds of a few getting some lucky guesses is entirely possible. It does not make them legit. Putting so much faith into a text leak that some random guy sitting at his computer typed up one night is not the best thing to do.

Oh, and if by some miraculous reason it turns out to be real? Cool. It doesn't matter at the end of the day. It's one thing to speculate, but getting this heated defending a so called leak is absolutely silly. The odds of a leak being fake are far more likely than them being real. ESPECIALLY concerning Smash.

There was an Ashley leak I desperately wanted to be real. It sounded plausible and grounded enough. I REALLY wanted it to be real, but I wasn't going to go to the grave defending it, and guess what? Turns out it was fake, and I didn't feel burned because I didn't put all of my being into believing something.

 

[MainJPW]

Alright alright, I'm gonna nip the bud on this leak.
The reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that Gothiettle is an echo of gardevoir is...
View attachment 158128
she's got stubby little legs, boi.

I don't know why but that's a little offputting.

 

[Noipoi]

Alright I gotta do something for like, twenty minutes.
When I get back we better be talking about something different or so help me i'll...
be very annoyed.

 

[Mc.Rad]

And even then I don't get that mindset. If a leak had Boshi in it, I'd STILL scrutinize it

Same with me and Deathborn, I would love to believe but the sad thing is that a lot of leaks are BS anyways.

 

[Chandeelure]

View attachment 158128
she's got stubby little legs, boi.

I've seen this pic like 8 times this week.

 

[Dee Dude]

So if you were the game director, which series would be overrepped?
For me, Donkey Kong and Pokémon.

Series I would overflow it’s characters? Very good question.

*rubs hands evilly*

Definitely, Tails, Knux, Shad, Amy, Blaze, Silver, Rouge, Eggman, Big, I could go on and on.

Pretty much the same as it is, but with Waluigi, Toad, E.Gadd, Paper Mario and Petey all added in.

Words don’t describe how many iconic Gen 1 Pokemon deserve a slot. Meowth, Snorlax, etc.

Where Lanky and Chunky at?

 

[papagenos]

Care to explain how?

Gardevoir has been relevant in two generations. Neither of those were used as opportunities to add her to Smash Bros. She is popular but not massively so, she is not extensively marketed, nor has there ever been monstrous outcry for her to be playable in Smash Bros. like Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, or Geno.

Gothitelle is not only unpopular but actively disliked. I have never seen anyone say their favorite Pokemon is Gothitelle - I’ve never seen anyone even TALK about Gothitelle. Even if Gardevoir were to be a playable character, Gothitelle is the most contrived “we need an echo of this character even if nobody wanted one” choice of all time.

Richter is easily the second most popular Belmont, as well, apparently even more popular in Japan, likely because of his role in Symphony of the Night. If you wanted a playable character that used the Vampire Killer that wasn’t Simon, it would be Richter 95% of the time.

the smash ballot pointed out to sakurai the fans want every generation represented.

then where are the other leaks guessing richter?

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Wow! most of you do not have basic reading skills to understand that the Gardevoir leak pointed out that probably not every character was in the demo so Simon not being there means nothing. Now if you want to discuss why Richter was there but Simon was not, i didn't work in building the demo and neither did you, so there is no way to know.​

 

[Iridium]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/97ox3r/bowser_karagrab_is_still_living/

So, it seems that Bowses pivot (or just extended at this point) grab still exists. Just, uh, okay.

 

[Idon]

I don't know why but that's a little offputting.

Oh, if you think that's offputting, look at this

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Alright alright, I'm gonna nip the bud on this leak.
The reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that Gothiettle is an echo of gardevoir is...
View attachment 158128
she's got stubby little legs, boi.

Oh god what, why is it’s legs so small? It’s body is shaped like a giant sausage, how does it move?

 

[Shroob]

but thats ignore the story itself that goes with the leak and taking it as pure facts instead of thinking WHY he'd say that. he didnt see simon. simon wasnt in the data. thats it. your taking it at face value.

1.richter is worked on first, this even fits sakurai saying whos really an echo of who it may have happened in development this way we even have a supporting statement from sakurai to come to that conclusion.

2.its supposedly a demo copy and hes looking at left over data to find some names that got left behind in the code. he says at the end not all characters were probably in the data.

3.we know sakurai doesnt make full builds of the game in development.

im legit getting gematsu flashbacks here.

Gematsu also got more than 1 character right.


You're acting like Richter is this end-all-be-all character, when he's the 2nd most popular Belmont in the franchise. If someone wanted to be contrarian to Verg, all they'd have to do is Google search "Belmont" and think "I'll put Richter in instead of Simon"

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Burning the trash means you just removed all traces of Roy. What have you done you madman?

Revive Roy after the Final Smash


Seriously guys, the "leaks" are getting out of hand. I keep seeing notifications about Leaks, Smash Bros, etc every single day on YouTube and it's not even funny anymore

 

[Omega Tyrant]

But even if Gardy happens, then haven't both Loz and Verg told us we're specifically gonna get a gen7 rep

Loz has claimed he hasn't heard anything regarding a new pokemon. Vergeben claims there will be a gen 7 pokemon, but there is the question of if it isn't just an assumption made by Vergeben or his sources after hearing there is a "new pokemon". I don't think Vergeben's claim of there being a gen 7 pokemon should be taken as a legitimate claim until he can commit to a specific pokemon (he claims he heard Incineroar from one source but isn't confident enough in it to claim it's legit and still heard nothing about it from other sources).

 

[Will]

1.richter is worked on first, this even fits sakurai saying whos really an echo of who it may have happened in development this way we even have a supporting statement from sakurai to come to that conclusion.

Don't talk bull****. It's obvious Simon was made in clear mind first, but since Richter was an influence, he was brought in as well. We can tell because of how the trailer was made. It's not the other way around, that would be a lot of expensive time to just be work backed on a jiffy unless we know how quickly the company makes these trailers. Perhaps vaanrose has an idea of the process more than I do.

2.its supposedly a demo copy and hes looking at left over data to find some names that got left behind in the code. he says at the end not all characters were probably in the data.

Do you know how demos work? Think about this in a way that I see that nobody has thought of before.
There's no way the demo was downloaded digitally, it's simply impossible on how I see it. A cartridge is the only thing they could do, because demo cartridges are still very much a thing. How would you prove that you have the demo?

SHOW THE CARTRIDGE. If he showed the cartridge, boom it's done and it's set in stone. But he didn't.

3.we know sakurai doesnt make full builds of the game in development.

im legit getting gematsu flashbacks here.

Gematsu didn't say they had a datamine from the demo. Gemtasu was a tip probably from a worker who had knowledge of SSB4's early concept build.

 

[Chandeelure]

Oh, if you think that's offputting, look at this
View attachment 158129

EXTRA THICC

Oh god what, why is it’s legs so small? It’s body is shaped like a giant sausage, how does it move?

Psychic powers, duh.

 

[JLU51306]

...Except for the part where this leaker explictly said Simon wasn't in the game? Ask yourself, would you give any other leak this sort of charity to get something completely wrong and then just say "they just didn't see it"?

But the leaker didn't explicitly say Simon wasn't in the game.

">The Simon Belmont leaker had the Castlevania IP right, but not the character. "Rihita", Richter Belmont's Japanese name, was among those listed."

Perhaps this particular build didn't have any addresses for Simon. A lot of times when developers hash out a demo from a developmental build, stray code and or addresses get left over in the demo. Sure, seeing only Richter and implying no Simon was overreaching on his part, but it doesn't deter me from the idea that the build just didn't happen to have any scrap code of Simon. It happens.