Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Loz18-Echo]

Next Xenoblade character is so obvious

 

[Dixie Kong]

Mario and Pokemon.
People joke about how all 807 Pokemon should be playable but if I was in charge? Don't even get me started!

Heh, would you add all 807 of them, plus make your own Pokémon?

 

[Zinith]

FYI I'm not joking. If I were director of Smash, Zelda would have the most representation as it's my favorite series.

And THEN Mario

then Yoshi

 

[vaanrose]

Yeah....I mean I'm still rooting for no Pokemon reps because I'd rather them not spend resources that way, but I find any not-Incineroar Pokemon makes me pause and consider something might be real purely cuz I really don't like Incineroar (sorry guys...)

I'm in the acceptance phase of Incineroar and he ain't even announced yet, lol.

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah....I mean I'm still rooting for no Pokemon reps because I'd rather them not spend resources that way, but I find any not-Incineroar Pokemon makes me pause and consider something might be real purely cuz I really don't like Incineroar (sorry guys...)

I will relish bringing the smack down to Smash bros with a flaming tiger if he gets in, AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP ME!

 

[Will]

Next Xenoblade character is so obvious

The Gogols would actually be a really smart idea for a boss character, or at least one of the stronger enemies to fight in a mode similar to Smash Run or adventure. They're pretty much a staple boss of the series at this point. Territorial Rotbart I think is his name.

 

[WertQuadNine]

Can't shake this feeling people are latching on to the Gardevoir leak because they really, really don't want Incineroar, lol.

But even if Gardy happens, then haven't both Loz and Verg told us we're specifically gonna get a gen7 rep

 

[Noipoi]

Heh, would you add all 807 of them, plus make your own Pokémon?

Not all of them, just the ones I really like.
And I really like a lot of them.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As I stated in my last post, you can't just examine this in a vacuum. This was picked out of a pile of hundreds of leaks or being the one that picked Richter. K. Rool was the most common character in leaks and Dark Samus was not too far behind. There are also a handful of things that call this leak into question such as the absence of Simon and the fact that a Gothitelle Gardevoir echo makes only the most minimal of sense. When you're getting quite literally 500 text leaks in between directs, I'd be more surprised if one didn't guess a few characters correctly.

Gardevoir with a Gothitelle echo makes perfect sense. That's why I specifically asked that we give other reasoning other than our personal opinions about the characters being playable. Because it's subjective and just makes us sound like we do or don't want the leak to be true and are choosing whether or not to believe it.

Like I said before, my point was not that it revealed King K. Rool and Dark Samus in the same direct. It revealed Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus, in the same direct.

If it had just been King K. Rool and Dark Samus, you could say that's a coincidence. But, you're not gonna convince me that Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus together were all coincidentally confirmed only a month later.

And the only reason Simon wasn't mentioned was because the leaker (for whatever reason and there are dozens of possibilities) didn't see it.

 

[CroonerMike]

I mean, I guessed Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, Ridley, Richter, and Simon as being characters...I've guessed several characters on top of that too. Guess that makes me a leaker then correct? Since, these "leaks" can apparently just guess anything and if they get one thing right they are real. Btw since I am a leaker I might as well tell you two characters...I can guess these characters because I worked at a demo booth and I got my hands on a demo because it was completely unprotected and I went into the files and you'll never believe was I saw! GOEMONSU and GENU. I think these mean Goemon and Geno are characters!

 

[Idon]

Smash is diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving it - we need to pull it out by the roots. Wipe the slate clean. BURN IT DOWN!

And from the ashes, a new Smash will be born. Evolved, but untamed!
The unpopular will be purged and the fan favorites will thrive - free to fight as they're seen fit
They'll make Smash great again!

In my new Smash, characters will be cut and added for what the people WANT! Not for advertising, not for nostalgia! Not for what they're told is easy to shove in at the last second. Every Smasher will be free to fight like their own games!

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, you're right. I just wish we got more love for non-relevant characters the same way K Rool or Geno does.

And maybe for people to get out of their comfort zone and play more older titles, come on.

As for older, pre-3DS Fire Emblem titles (and because of that, not including Gaiden or SoV), I'd love to see another Archanean character. Regardless of likelihood, characters like Merric, Caeda, Hardin, Lena, Minerva, Tiki, Julian, and Ogma (Marth too, but he's already in) are some of my favorite characters in the franchise.

 

[staindgrey]

Yeah, you're right. I just wish we got more love for non-relevant characters the same way K Rool or Geno does.

And maybe for people to get out of their comfort zone and play more older titles, come on.

I don't disagree at all. I have English translated cartridges of the three SNES Fire Emblems. I love the series. I just try to look at it realistically.

Also, I'd hardly put K. Rool in the same category as FE characters from Japanese-only games. He was DK's big bad for many games and was never really supplanted by a different big bad. Plus he's much more immediately recognizable to a casual fan than vaguely-European-fantasy-dude-or-gal-with-colored-hair.

 

[Shroob]

Gardevoir with a Gothitelle makes perfect sense. That's why I specifically asked that we give other reasoning other than our personal opinions. Because it's subjective and just makes us sound like we do or don't want the leak to be true and are choosing whether or not to believe it.

Like I said before, my point was not that it revealed King K. Rool and Dark Samus in the same direct. It revealed Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus, in the same direct.

If it had just been King K. Rool and Dark Samus, you could say that's a coincidence. But, you're not gonna convince me that Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus together were all coincidentally confirmed only a month later. And the only reason Simon wasn't mentioned was because the leaker (for whatever reason and there are dozens of possibilities) didn't see it.

The fact that Simon wasn't there and Richter wasn't classified as an Echo should kill this argument outright, but you're going to try to find some circular logic about "RICHTER WAS THE ORIGINAL CHARACTER" or something.

 

[N3ON]

Incineroar is super bleh and that leak is still fake. Hell, Isaac is on the Neogaf leak and that one's fake too.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Gardevoir with a Gothitelle makes perfect sense. That's why I specifically asked that we give other reasoning other than our personal opinions. Because it's subjective and just makes us sound like we do or don't want the leak to be true and are choosing whether or not to believe it.

Like I said before, my point was not that it revealed King K. Rool and Dark Samus in the same direct. It revealed Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus, in the same direct.

If it had just been King K. Rool and Dark Samus, you could say that's a coincidence. But, you're not gonna convince me that Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus together were all coincidentally confirmed only a month later. And the only reason Simon wasn't mentioned was because the leaker (for whatever reason and there are dozens of possibilities) didn't see it.

Listen as others have said prior, but you don't seem to recognize, doesn't this leak specifically state that it would be Richter over Simon? Not both, one an echo as another, but Richter and not Simon? Wouldn't Simon's presence make it debunked?

Beyond that, I think swatting aside the fact that all the other echos accompanied their base, but Richter apparently didn't, faulty reasoning. That puts serious holes into the story the guy is telling.

 

[villager]

Okay, I'm just going to try to ignore any Gothitelle leak discussion from here on out. Nothing 100% disproves it but it's just too suspicious to take that seriously. With this many fake leaks flying around, one of them is bound to get a lucky guess or two.

If Gothitelle really does get in as a playable character, I'll burn my Charizard amiibo or something. I dunno. I'll work out the details for that later. But until then, I'm done talking about this.

That and the waifu wars...

FYI I'm not joking. If I were director of Smash, Zelda would have the most representation as it's my favorite series.

And THEN Mario

then Yoshi

Who would you add besides Skull Kid? I think Vaati would definitely be an interesting addition, and Impa would just echo Sheik right?
It's too bad Midna is an assist trophy. I would've liked both her Imp form and True form to be playable.

 

[papagenos]

Can't shake this feeling people are latching on to the Gardevoir leak because they really, really don't want Incineroar, lol.

I latched onto it cause it guessed richter which NO other leak did. thats it. what more does a leak need to be looked at honestly?

it has nothing to do with incineroar i am totally indifferent to gardevoir and incineroar HOWEVER i will mention that incineroar was controversial so discovering it might not be him makes sense as ive already seen the "luke warm" at best response fans will have if it is incineroar.

after it guessed richter i attempted to explain in my head how its choices could actually make sense, and the more i dug into it the more likely it started to feel which isnt what usually happens with leaks.

so honestly I dont care if its real or not as i dont care about gardevoir or incineroar, id be fine with no new pokemon character since we got pokemon trainer/pichu back personally, but i think its crazy to NOT look at the leak that called richter.

im fine with just waiting it out at this point as all my points are out there if peope want to hear them, make your own assessment but even if you think its fake i think its bizarre to not think it has a lot going for it.

 

[Will]

Gardevoir with a Gothitelle echo makes perfect sense. That's why I specifically asked that we give other reasoning other than our personal opinions about the characters being playable. Because it's subjective and just makes us sound like we do or don't want the leak to be true and are choosing whether or not to believe it.

Like I said before, my point was not that it revealed King K. Rool and Dark Samus in the same direct. It revealed Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus, in the same direct.

If it had just been King K. Rool and Dark Samus, you could say that's a coincidence. But, you're not gonna convince me that Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus together were all coincidentally confirmed only a month later.

And the only reason Simon wasn't mentioned was because the leaker (for whatever reason and there are dozens of possibilities) didn't see it.

OH MY GOD
SOMEONE
TELL HIM
ABOUT THIS GUY I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE

 

[Enchess]

I meant more in terms of "Echoes don't have to be 1:1 with the original" which opens up a lot of opportunities. Chrom has an entirely new attack, Dark Samus has different dodges and Richter is blended so much with Simon even Sakurai thinks they could be Echoes of each other. A lot of people think Dixie wouldn't work because she has too many differences, but she'd definitely be testing the boundaries of what an Echo can get away with (different grab and side B animations because she's always grabbed with her hair, new recovery, animations that use her hair in place of her non-existent tail).

My bad, I thought you meant crazy or unexpected since suddenly a lot of people are acting like predicting those is as much of a credibility boost as loz or Verg had
im sure I have a reputation by now for mistrust of Verg. If you check my history you'll see I said I'd believe Verg was real as soon as Simon was revealed and he is now. It's not really hypocritical I say he's real now

 

[RandomAce]

Can't shake this feeling people are latching on to the Gardevoir leak because they really, really don't want Incineroar, lol.

I’m not latching it, and I still really, really don’t want Incineroar.

———
This leak has been done to death and has had an analysis already. I’ll tell you why this leak is fake.

SIMON:

You can add Isaac or Bandanna Dee onto it if you want, heck the NEOGaf one did with Isaac and I still don’t believe what it has to stay nor do I need a character I want to make me cling onto it, I have better things to do to support and hope for my most wanted than stick to a crummy rumor, scratch that, most people for that matter.

But when this “leak” disconfirmes a character and that character ends up appearing as a playable character, it’s already lost credibitly. This isn’t even going through the “I datamined the game” part which would’ve send waves already.

LET. THIS. GO.

It’s just one person, just ignore him and move onto something else, this guy already has a history of trying to contradict everyone. This isn’t at you Vanny someone else causing this.

 

[N3ON]

OH MY GOD
SOMEONE
TELL HIM
ABOUT THIS GUY I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE

You won't stop him. Just wait until Sakurai proves him wrong.

 

[MainJPW]

OH MY GOD
SOMEONE
TELL HIM
ABOUT THIS GUY I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE

He'll learn the truth on his own.

 

[Zinith]

That and the waifu wars...


Who would you add besides Skull Kid? I think Vaati would definitely be an interesting addition, and Impa would just echo Sheik right?
It's too bad Midna is an assist trophy. I would've liked both her Imp form and True form to be playable.

Skull Kid, Vaati, Impa, Linebeck, Midna, Groose, Ghirahim, Darunia, Happy Mask Salesman, Fi, I"D ADD THEM ALL!!!

 

[JLU51306]

"Shulk is just a photoshopped Little Mac!"

I remember that day. Not that I'm implying any leaks are being misjudged, just a fun throwback.
In Vergeben's defense, having knowledge of a characters inclusion doesn't mean he knows all the ins-and-outs, along with that characters (Simon) reveal timetable. He accurately predicted Ridley and Simon. His leak was real, period. Having a source versus having inside knowledge are two different things that I think some are blanketing together. A source near the bottom of the totem-pole can misconstrue, misunderstand, or completely miss details (Daisy), and that doesn't disqualify his source because he didn't leak something (Daisy).
Friendly observation.

 

[Will]

Smash is diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving it - we need to pull it out by the roots. Wipe the slate clean. BURN IT DOWN!

And from the ashes, a new Smash will be born. Evolved, but untamed!
The unpopular will be purged and the fan favorites will thrive - free to fight as they're seen fit
They'll make Smash great again!

In my new Smash, characters will be cut and added for what the people WANT! Not for advertising, not for nostalgia! Not for what they're told is easy to shove in at the last second. Every Smasher will be free to fight like their own games!

View attachment 158118

Senator Armstrong would be pretty wicked though

You won't stop him. Just wait until Sakurai proves him wrong.

But I don't wanna wait.

 

[staindgrey]

If Gothitelle really does get in as a playable character, I'll burn my Charizard amiibo or something. I dunno. I'll work out the details for that later. But until then, I'm done talking about this.

I've clearly missed a lot of the conversation, but what's wrong with Gothitelle?

I was always a Gothitelle > Gardevoir kinda guy.

 

[Opossum]

OH MY GOD
SOMEONE
TELL HIM
ABOUT THIS GUY I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE

Welcome to BlockedByNoah Town. Population: At least four.

 

[Noipoi]

Incineroar is super bleh and that leak is still fake. Hell, Isaac is on the Neogaf leak and that one's fake too.

Incineroar is the best.

Look at this precious boy he just wants love like anyone else and you're all being meanie bo beanies.

 

[papagenos]

Gardevoir with a Gothitelle echo makes perfect sense. That's why I specifically asked that we give other reasoning other than our personal opinions about the characters being playable. Because it's subjective and just makes us sound like we do or don't want the leak to be true and are choosing whether or not to believe it.

Like I said before, my point was not that it revealed King K. Rool and Dark Samus in the same direct. It revealed Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus, in the same direct.

If it had just been King K. Rool and Dark Samus, you could say that's a coincidence. But, you're not gonna convince me that Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus together were all coincidentally confirmed only a month later.

And the only reason Simon wasn't mentioned was because the leaker (for whatever reason and there are dozens of possibilities) didn't see it.

dude all i can say is i completely agree. not seeing simon does NOTHING to discredit the leak and theres even evidence richter may have been worked on first from sakurais own mouth.

im gonna stop arguing and wait it out cause it seems to just fall on deaf ears here but yes i am as baffled as you.

 

[Radical Bones]

I would give Sonic so many unique characters it wouldn't even be funny.

Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Metal Sonic, Amy Rose, Shadow, Team Chaotix as a trio... don't even get me started.

Also Donkey Kong:

Dixie, Funky, Cranky, Tiny, Lanky, Jr. and Kiddy.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I've clearly missed a lot of the conversation, but what's wrong with Gothitelle?

I was always a Gothitelle > Gardevoir kinda guy.

Lack of any support when most if not all newcomers so far have been characters frequently requested. Gardevoir has been a popular pokemon I've seen have support for a long time, so it getting in wouldn't surprise me. BUt Gothitelle getting in is kind of surprising considering the pattern we've seen. It'd literally just be to slap an echo on Gardevoir

 

[Will]

dude all i can say is i completely agree. not seeing simon does NOTHING to discredit the leak and theres even evidence richter may have been workedo n first from sakurais own mouth.

im gonna stop arguing it cause it seems to just fall on deaf ears here but yes i am as baffled as you.

What do you think "right IP, wrong character" means?
It means Yeah dude it's only Richter yep no Simon Simon isn't in too bad so sad Richter baby, not Richter and maybe Simon.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So if you were the game director, which series would be overrepped?
For me, Donkey Kong and Pokémon.

would be my guess here

SOMEONE TELL HIM THE THING PLEASE AAAAAA IT CAN JUST END RIGHT THERE AND NOW


I wouldn't overrep, I'd ****ing demolish some of these verses.
go straight into the trash

garbage day continues

make an Echo because he needs justice

next thing I would do: rework entire movesets to make them truly unique as they should be

are about to get spun on and given better movesets (either a complete overhaul or like one or two moves) that suit their characters more.

I was going to like this, but then I saw my boy Roy in the trash department

Burning that trash out

 

[N3ON]

Incineroar is the best.
View attachment 158123
Look at this precious boy he just wants love like anyone else and you're all being meanie bo beanies.

I'd rather have the Weedle.

 

[Shroob]

At this point, I think he just wants the leak to be right to rack in those sweet Youtube views. The first part has nearly 100k views.

 

[ZephyrZ]

You know what? If Gothitelle somehow makes her way into the roster, I'm going to make this my avatar for a full year;

Ew.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The fact that Simon wasn't there and Richter wasn't classified as an Echo should kill this argument outright, but you're going to try to find some circular logic about "RICHTER WAS THE ORIGINAL CHARACTER" or something.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you're not good at predicting the future. Turns out I know what I'm gonna say better than you do.

My explanation, is that the data isted was probably inconsistent for any number of reasons, possibly because it was merely a demo build. There's also the possibility that it was mined or read incorrectly by the leaker. The leaker was merely making guesses based on a vague list of names.

You're just claiming that there are inconsistencies, therefore we have to throw the whole thing out, but you're ignoring what it got right that nobody else knew about.

I gotta say, I'm sensing a lot of aggression towards this, which further leads me to believe that people just don't want it to be true and are looking for anything to justify throwing the whole thing out. There are plenty of leaks with minor inconsistencies that turn out to be true. Like the E3 leak. Simon was never shown off and Daisy was never mentioned in the leak.

 

[staindgrey]

FYI I'm not joking. If I were director of Smash, Zelda would have the most representation as it's my favorite series.

And THEN Mario

then Yoshi

I mean, Skull Kid, Midna+Wolf, Impa, Ghirahim, Tetra and any of the BotW Guardians could all be solid and unique additions to the roster. Other than being a Smash staple, a la Cpt. Falcon or Mr. G&W, I really feel like Sheik isn't relevant enough to be taking up the spot of a more interesting addition. She's now been in four Smash games. And one Zelda game.

 

[Enchess]

I mean, I guessed Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, Ridley, Richter, and Simon as being characters...I've guessed several characters on top of that too. Guess that makes me a leaker then correct? Since, these "leaks" can apparently just guess anything and if they get one thing right they are real. Btw since I am a leaker I might as well tell you two characters...I can guess these characters because I worked at a demo booth and I got my hands on a demo because it was completely unprotected and I went into the files and you'll never believe was I saw! GOEMONSU and GENU. I think these mean Goemon and Geno are characters!

I've said this before, but I reeeeally wish I posted my Smash wishlist as a leak before Smash announcement. It had Zelda LttP costume, Ganondorf OoT costume, younger Ike, Pichu and Wolf returning, Ridley, Inklings, Squad Strike (without a specific name), Classic Mode set matches without randomness, Ditto and Alolan Eggsecutor, and even Stamina mode being a normal mode and not Special Smash!

People would be utterly convinced right now that Mio, Isaac, and Saki were in!

(Seriously though, this Smash has so many of my wants I've told my friends I think Sakurai might be spying on me. Simon reveal is the only thing that keeps me grounded in reality, and even then Castlevania is one of my favorite series ever)