Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Fatmanonice]

I'm really not sure why people believe that Gardevior leak.

It's so fake it makes Kim Kardashin's butt look real.

Wishful thinking, plus it covers a long time Smash fan gripe that not every Pokemon generation has a playable rep.

6 echos and 6 characters? Okay:

Echoes:

Shadow or Tails (90% going to Shadow unfortunately)
Ken
Dixie
Impa (Sheik) or Tetra (Toon Link)
Medusa (Palutena)
Galacta Knight

????? Isabelle????

Characters:

Geno (probably setting myself up for heartbreak...)
Bandana Dee
Gen 7 Poke
Skull Kid or Isaac (most of my wishlist is already confirmed or toast so might as well jump on this train)
Shantae (only hopeful because Shovel Knight got snubbed)
Banjo

?????Isabelle?????

Isabelle could go either way. I'm hoping she's original but I can understand why she may not be. Either way, aside from Shadow and Dixie, I'm pretty sure she's a lock as playable.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Well, how does K. Rool enter the stage in the DKC series? That's a good place to start.

As for Simon and Richter... ask someone like Jedisupersonic .

Simon will probably walk or jump onto the stage and snap his whip like he does at the opening cinematic of Super Castlevania IV.

Richter might be the slide in and pose with the brandished whip we saw after his splash page, his would likely be more dynamic than Simons.

 

[SlickWylde]

I’d think so too, I mean, it seems the guy has a LOT of different sources

And if the whole Nintendo giving fake info to trap and expose leakers is true, he’s making double sure that the source’s info is true

Loz’s source probably fell into a trap (likely Skull Kid, as well as knowing the ENTIRE K. Rool trailer storyboard) and was smoked out as a result

Okay, so the whole storyboard for the K Rool trailer was posted ahead of time? I don't remember anybody talking about it here before the direct. Did I miss that?? Was it the night before or something?

 

[Iridium]

I honestly have a bad feeling Isabelle is going to become an Assist Trophy in the next direct to feature Assist Trophies. I don't really care what role she gets though, so I honestly can't say I will break down if she was deconfirmed.

A playable Isabelle would be nice, but I don't see much of a reason to care. Somebody will probably try to convince me otherwise, but eh.

 

[Shroob]

Okay, so the whole storyboard for the K Rool trailer was posted ahead of time? I don't remember anybody talking about it here before the direct. Did I miss that?? Was it the night before or something?

Loz18 talked about the Heroes vs Villains thing and to basically 'wait and see what he meant'.

And then boom, K.Rool's trailer opens with a heroes vs villains thing.

 

[Noipoi]

We talking Sonic?
uh...
I like Sonic Colors.
because it's the only one iv'e played.

 

[Deleted member]

Loz18 talked about the Heroes vs Villains thing and to basically 'wait and see what he meant'.

And then boom, K.Rool's trailer opens with a heroes vs villains thing.

That's not a storyboard but okay, let's just roll with it.

 

[Kuon]

I’d think so too, I mean, it seems the guy has a LOT of different sources

And if the whole Nintendo giving fake info to trap and expose leakers is true, he’s making double sure that the source’s info is true

Loz’s source probably fell into a trap (likely Skull Kid, as well as knowing the ENTIRE K. Rool trailer storyboard) and was smoked out as a result

You mean because Vergeben stated that several of his sources say that Isabelle is an echo? Is that how he's making double sure his sources are true?

Yeah, the thing about Verg is so far, everything he's said has come true.

Loz18 was in a similar boat, but his Direct prediction was very wrong.

The oddest thing is that Loz18 'had' seen the storyboards for K.Rool's trailer, but his logic for K.Rool and Skull Kid being in to 'promote future Switch titles' is odd, to say the least, and him going into hiding after said claim makes me think by saying that, he smoked his source out to the Ninteninjas.

Yeah the fact that he went into hiding does not help his case

 

[Shroob]

That's not a storyboard but okay, let's just roll with it.

He either saw the storyboard, or the trailer ahead of time. I 'think' he later said that he had seen storyboard art of it but don't quote me on it.

Regardless, someone was feeding him info from inside the company most likely.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Alright, can someone please fill me in on the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak?

I've been hearing about the two Pokemon being in this leak frequently, but also only very recently. I don't know the details of the leak in it's entirety.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Gonna dive into this "guess 6 uniques and 6 echoes" game from forever ago.

However, since I only expect 8 characters, 5 and 6 for each are extras.

Unique

1. Geno
2. Skull Kid
3. Bandana Dee
4. Incineroar
5. Isaac
6. Elma

Echoes

1. Dixie Kong (Diddy Echo with some DK specials)
2. Impa (Sheik Echo)
3. Mach Rider (Captain Falcon Echo with a bike side B)
4. Shadow (Sonic Echo)
5. Matthew (Isaac Echo)
6. Akuma (Ryu Echo)

Changing my mind on one thing.

Replace Matthew with Octoling as an Inkling Echo.

I want Burst Bombs as the down B

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You mean because Vergeben stated that several of his sources say that Isabelle is an echo? Is that how he's making double sure his sources are true?

I’d imagine so, yeah

Alright, can someone please fill me in on the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak?

I've been hearing about the two Pokemon being in this leak frequently, but also only very recently. I don't know the details of the leak in it's entirety.

It’s bull****, that’s all you need to know

 

[MainJPW]

We talking Sonic?
uh...
I like Sonic Colors.
because it's the only one iv'e played.

Stage ideas. Like what, you want something from Colors? Starlight Carnival, Aquarium Park, Tropical Resort?

Try Sonic Mania Plus by the way. Consistent high scores and reviews.

With a 90 Metascore on Nintendo Switch, Sonic Mania Plus is now the highest-rated Sonic game in 25 years.

Thank you for being there with us, every step of the way. pic.twitter.com/tRhE8rWYNU

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) July 24, 2018

With the right team behind it (people who give a ****), Sonic is... good stuff.

 

[Crash4Smash]

@KMDP I actually had this idea for a while. The Special Dimension (that's the dimension where the Special Stages take place, that's the name it's given in the Japanese Triple Trouble manual and used again when Whitehead described where the Chaos Emeralds go after being used when asked about it).

Basically a travelling stage, it takes you through various different Special Stage locations from different Sonic games:

Sonic 1, 2 and 3, Chaotix and Mania. They are the main method of collecting items like Chaos Emeralds, Chaos Rings and Time Stones and are pretty iconic to the Sonic series.

Fun fact: Fang The Sniper lives there according to the Japanese Triple Trouble manual. Explains why CD and Mania reveal that there are Cities and Factories inside them.

That 3D Sonic Mania bonus stage is using the Super NES graphics. Anyways, I've been thinking that new mode may not be spirits as everyone thinks it is, why were they so quick to claim Spirits to be plural, it shows their lack of Japanese language knowledge. Spectator? Maybe it's Subspace, maybe it's Splinters?

 

[Iridium]

Changing my mind on one thing.

Replace Matthew with Octoling as an Inkling Echo.

I want Burst Bombs as the down B

What do you think their Final Smash would be?

 

[Kuon]

I honestly have a bad feeling Isabelle is going to become an Assist Trophy in the next direct to feature Assist Trophies. I don't really care what role she gets though, so I honestly can't say I will break down if she was deconfirmed.

A playable Isabelle would be nice, but I don't see much of a reason to care. Somebody will probably try to convince me otherwise, but eh.

I will break down if she's not playable. I had a dream that she got de-confirmed. That's how much I worry about it. Isabelle being playable or being an assist trophy will either make or break this game for me. Maybe I'm being picky, but she's the only thing I want.

 

[Shroob]

Alright, can someone please fill me in on the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak?

I've been hearing about the two Pokemon being in this leak frequently, but also only very recently. I don't know the details of the leak in it's entirety.

tl;dr, someone on 4chan claims they hacked the demo and found files for Richter, Dark Samus, Gardevoir, Gothitelle and Mario2.

No evidence was provided, not even a screenshot. This was pre-Richter, no mention of Simon.

 

[Lodestar65]

Alright, can someone please fill me in on the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak?

I've been hearing about the two Pokemon being in this leak frequently, but also only very recently. I don't know the details of the leak in it's entirety.

So this leaker claims that they managed to datamine a demo unit at CEO. The reason why it's noteworthy is because they somehow guessed Richter.

 

[Noipoi]

Alright, can someone please fill me in on the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak?

I've been hearing about the two Pokemon being in this leak frequently, but also only very recently. I don't know the details of the leak in it's entirety.

Supposedly someone got hold of a demo version of Smash Ultimate.
In the files for the demo were Richter, Mario2 (whoever that is), Dark Samus, Gardevoir and Gothitelle (as Gardevoir's echo).
While i'd like it to be real because I really like Gardevoir, I heavily doubt it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What do you think their Final Smash would be?

Hesitating between Splashdown and Sting Ray.

Either way, something from Splatoon 2.

 

[Crash4Smash]

Wishful thinking, plus it covers a long time Smash fan gripe that not every Pokemon generation has a playable rep.

6 echos and 6 characters? Okay:

Echoes:

Shadow or Tails (90% going to Shadow unfortunately)
Ken
Dixie
Impa (Sheik) or Tetra (Toon Link)
Medusa (Palutena)
Galacta Knight

????? Isabelle????

Characters:

Geno (probably setting myself up for heartbreak...)
Bandana Dee
Gen 7 Poke
Skull Kid or Isaac (most of my wishlist is already confirmed or toast so might as well jump on this train)
Shantae (only hopeful because Shovel Knight got snubbed)
Banjo

?????Isabelle?????

Isabelle could go either way. I'm hoping she's original but I can understand why she may not be. Either way, aside from Shadow and Dixie, I'm pretty sure she's a lock as playable.

Unfortunately, Medusa may be difficult to put in as playable since she's not entirely relevant to Videogames, even so she still has a better chance of making it into Smash Bros than Goku.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm just going to say to respond to a comment lost in the middle of this... It's very clear that the 103 stages we have are in fact ALL of the stages, at least in the initial release and at least for multiplayer normal stages (doesn't rule out DLC stages, single player only stages, or stage builder). They made a big show of the relative stage count between Smash Ultimate and every previous Smash game, and they spend like a solid minute discussing the number. On the site, for the sections about all the item stuff (normal items, Pokemon, etc.) they were sure to note "and more" but the stage page has nothing of the sort. They even put stages up on the site that they never mentioned or showed in the direct other than as icons on the stage select screen or in any previous releases of information like Mushroom Kingdom 64; that's not how a staggered release of information works. People like to act like Sakurai and the Smash marketing team are tricky but they really aren't; they have only an interest in accurately conveying information about the game.

And yes, this means that almost assuredly all new characters will be from franchises already in Smash (at least until DLC hits). In both Brawl and 4 (either version of 4!), the only character not to have a stage from his or her own series is R.O.B. who is clearly a pretty special case since he's not actually a character based on Nintendo software but rather on Nintendo hardware. I suppose you could argue maybe we'll have a left field character like Labo cardboard man who is similar, and I won't say that's impossible, but I would say that characters like Isaac and Lloyd are very unlikely for this reason. Really the only third parties who seem likely at this point beyond what we know are obvious echo cases (like Shadow or Ms. Pac-Man) or maybe someone like Geno who could fairly be grouped in with the Mario series.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

How are all these characters gonna be announced within a 4 months timespan

Is sakurai just going to have a blow out at the end

I think some of them are going to be secret and their unlockable conditions will be turned on after the player finished the story mode.

 

[Kuon]

I’d imagine so, yeah

I hope he knows what he's talking about when it comes to Isabelle. I'd be more surprised if she's not playable. It just makes so much sense to put her in.

 

[Iridium]

Hesitating between Splashdown and Sting Ray.

Either way, something from Splatoon 2.

So, do you think Marina & Pearl have a chance of getting into Smash at all? Just wondering.

 

[Noipoi]

Stage ideas. Like what, you want something from Colors? Starlight Carnival, Aquarium Park, Tropical Resort?

Try Sonic Mania Plus by the way. Consistent high scores and reviews.

With a 90 Metascore on Nintendo Switch, Sonic Mania Plus is now the highest-rated Sonic game in 25 years.

Thank you for being there with us, every step of the way. pic.twitter.com/tRhE8rWYNU

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) July 24, 2018

With the right team behind it (people who give a ****), Sonic is... good stuff.

Tropical Resort, Starlight Carnival, Aquarium Park, Planet Wisp, Asteroid Coaster. Any of those would be cool.
Man, Sonic Colors had some awesome zones.

 

[Knight Dude]

Well I guess someone made a leak then it got debunked right away.

Smash isn't going to be out for a few months anyhow, so I'm hoping for the meantime, they show off a little something of Metroid Prime 4. If there's another Smash direct, it'll probably be closer to release.

 

[MainJPW]

That 3D Sonic Mania bonus stage is using the Super NES graphics.

Pretty sure it's supposed to be more Sega Saturn like.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I'm just going to say to respond to a comment lost in the middle of this... It's very clear that the 103 stages we have are in fact ALL of the stages, at least in the initial release and at least for multiplayer normal stages (doesn't rule out DLC stages, single player only stages, or stage builder). They made a big show of the relative stage count between Smash Ultimate and every previous Smash game, and they spend like a solid minute discussing the number. On the site, for the sections about all the item stuff (normal items, Pokemon, etc.) they were sure to note "and more" but the stage page has nothing of the sort. They even put stages up on the site that they never mentioned or showed in the direct other than as icons on the stage select screen or in any previous releases of information like Mushroom Kingdom 64; that's not how a staggered release of information works. People like to act like Sakurai and the Smash marketing team are tricky but they really aren't; they have only an interest in accurately conveying information about the game.

And yes, this means that almost assuredly all new characters will be from franchises already in Smash (at least until DLC hits). In both Brawl and 4 (either version of 4!), the only character not to have a stage from his or her own series is R.O.B. who is clearly a pretty special case since he's not actually a character based on Nintendo software but rather on Nintendo hardware. I suppose you could argue maybe we'll have a left field character like Labo cardboard man who is similar, and I won't say that's impossible, but I would say that characters like Isaac and Lloyd are very unlikely for this reason. Really the only third parties who seem likely at this point beyond what we know are obvious echo cases (like Shadow or Ms. Pac-Man) or maybe someone like Geno who could fairly be grouped in with the Mario series.

1st. This has been debunked thanks to Mute City (SNES)
2nd. Even if it would fit my Deathborn case, there's a possibility that most of these newcomers are popular picks. I do think we shouldn't expect Lloyd in, but possibly Isaac. Though I would love it if this is the game where some franchises finally get more love

 

[Iridium]

Well I guess someone made a leak then it got debunked right away.

Smash isn't going to be out for a few months anyhow, so I'm hoping for the meantime, they show off a little something of Metroid Prime 4. If there's another Smash direct, it'll probably be closer to release.

I remember when the Twitch chat kept asking for Animal Crossing during E3, and I didn't know if I should have felt bad.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

tl;dr, someone on 4chan claims they hacked the demo and found files for Richter, Dark Samus, Gardevoir, Gothitelle and Mario2.

No evidence was provided, not even a screenshot. This was pre-Richter, no mention of Simon.

So this leaker claims that they managed to datamine a demo unit at CEO. The reason why it's noteworthy is because they somehow guessed Richter.

Supposedly someone got hold of a demo version of Smash Ultimate.
In the files for the demo were Richter, Mario2 (whoever that is), Dark Samus, Gardevoir and Gothitelle (as Gardevoir's echo).
While i'd like it to be real because I really like Gardevoir, I heavily doubt it.

Alright, thanks guys!

I would say it's worth keeping an eye on for now, due to Richter, and to a lesser extent, Dark Samus. In hindsight, I suppose one could argue that anyone with knowledge on both series could assume they would make reasonable echoes, but Richter still seems like a very oddball guess.

The fact that we had no idea how feasible third party echoes could be prior to the direct doesn't help.

 

[Crash4Smash]

Hesitating between Splashdown and Sting Ray.

Either way, something from Splatoon 2.

I would love a DLC pack with an Adventure mode expansion where you can unlock Agent 8, Springman and Ribbon Girl, Minmin, Crash Bandicoot, Coco Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon, and Rayman (Who uses Rabbids and the Mario vs. Rabbids Kingdom Battle weapons in addition to his normal Rayman game attacks, he also uses the battle axe from the Viking girl and Rabbid could be an echo of Rayman)

 

[Shroob]

I'm just going to say to respond to a comment lost in the middle of this... It's very clear that the 103 stages we have are in fact ALL of the stages, at least in the initial release and at least for multiplayer normal stages (doesn't rule out DLC stages, single player only stages, or stage builder). They made a big show of the relative stage count between Smash Ultimate and every previous Smash game, and they spend like a solid minute discussing the number. On the site, for the sections about all the item stuff (normal items, Pokemon, etc.) they were sure to note "and more" but the stage page has nothing of the sort. They even put stages up on the site that they never mentioned or showed in the direct other than as icons on the stage select screen or in any previous releases of information like Mushroom Kingdom 64; that's not how a staggered release of information works. People like to act like Sakurai and the Smash marketing team are tricky but they really aren't; they have only an interest in accurately conveying information about the game.

And yes, this means that almost assuredly all new characters will be from franchises already in Smash (at least until DLC hits). In both Brawl and 4 (either version of 4!), the only character not to have a stage from his or her own series is R.O.B. who is clearly a pretty special case since he's not actually a character based on Nintendo software but rather on Nintendo hardware. I suppose you could argue maybe we'll have a left field character like Labo cardboard man who is similar, and I won't say that's impossible, but I would say that characters like Isaac and Lloyd are very unlikely for this reason. Really the only third parties who seem likely at this point beyond what we know are obvious echo cases (like Shadow or Ms. Pac-Man) or maybe someone like Geno who could fairly be grouped in with the Mario series.

Yeah, I really don't buy it to be frank.

We've already discussed to death how the stage select screen has 6 oddly empty spots on the bottom row, and for 4(5) previous Smash games that Sakurai centers his menus as best as he can.

Unless they already have DLC planned out to be exactly 6 new stages, I highly doubt it and feel like they're saving stages for newcomer reveals.


The website read "65 characters!" for the longest time, but that obviously changed.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I think some of them are going to be secret and their unlockable conditions will be turned on after the player finished the story mode.

Sakurai literally said we’d know the cast and see their designs before launch, I don’t see any secrets happening.

 

[Lodestar65]

Alright, thanks guys!

I would say it's worth keeping an eye on for now, due to Richter, and to a lesser extent, Dark Samus. In hindsight, I suppose one could argue that anyone with knowledge on both series could assume they would make reasonable echoes, but Richter still seems like a very oddball guess.

The fact that we had no idea how feasible third party echoes could be prior to the direct doesn't help.

Apparently Richter is the most popular Belmont in Japan, and Simon and Chrom weren't in there at all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I will break down if she's not playable. I had a dream that she got de-confirmed. That's how much I worry about it. Isabelle being playable or being an assist trophy will either make or break this game for me. Maybe I'm being picky, but she's the only thing I want.

I hope that your dream inclusion can come true.

The monday before the direct, I dreamt that the fighters were attacking a giant, robotic wind-up doll of Wario that was just sitting there. I still don't know if it means there will be new Wario-related content or not...

Unfortunately, Medusa may be difficult to put in as playable since she's not entirely relevant to Videogames, even so she still has a better chance of making it into Smash Bros than Goku.

At least the concept of Medusa is in the public domain, unlike DB!Goku.

I mean, Greek mythology is centuries-old, you know.

 

[Kuon]

I'm just going to say to respond to a comment lost in the middle of this... It's very clear that the 103 stages we have are in fact ALL of the stages, at least in the initial release and at least for multiplayer normal stages (doesn't rule out DLC stages, single player only stages, or stage builder). They made a big show of the relative stage count between Smash Ultimate and every previous Smash game, and they spend like a solid minute discussing the number. On the site, for the sections about all the item stuff (normal items, Pokemon, etc.) they were sure to note "and more" but the stage page has nothing of the sort. They even put stages up on the site that they never mentioned or showed in the direct other than as icons on the stage select screen or in any previous releases of information like Mushroom Kingdom 64; that's not how a staggered release of information works. People like to act like Sakurai and the Smash marketing team are tricky but they really aren't; they have only an interest in accurately conveying information about the game.

And yes, this means that almost assuredly all new characters will be from franchises already in Smash (at least until DLC hits). In both Brawl and 4 (either version of 4!), the only character not to have a stage from his or her own series is R.O.B. who is clearly a pretty special case since he's not actually a character based on Nintendo software but rather on Nintendo hardware. I suppose you could argue maybe we'll have a left field character like Labo cardboard man who is similar, and I won't say that's impossible, but I would say that characters like Isaac and Lloyd are very unlikely for this reason. Really the only third parties who seem likely at this point beyond what we know are obvious echo cases (like Shadow or Ms. Pac-Man) or maybe someone like Geno who could fairly be grouped in with the Mario series.

That makes a lot of sense. I didn't really think of it like that. So basically the reason we won't be getting any more 3rd party characters is because they'd all need their own stage, and we probably won't get any more stages for the base game. And some people are saying there's gonna be a Minecraft stage, but I think Vergeben said Minecraft would be incorporated into the game, but he doesn't know how. My guess is maybe a diamond sword or pickaxe as an item, or something with stage builder. Either way, there's a good chance you're right. Probably only Nintendo characters (or characters in Nintendo games) from here on out

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So, do you think Marina & Pearl have a chance of getting into Smash at all? Just wondering.

As regular trophies? Yes.

As anything else? Nope.

 

[Enchess]

The website read "65 characters!" for the longest time, but that obviously changed.

The rest isn't even worth saying. This is the nail in the coffin right here. Stage number cannot be assumed to be final.

Are people really not aware of how game marketing works or do they just really not want to entertain the idea of Isaac or another rep from new IP?

 

[Iridium]

Does anyone here think Mega Man can get a new rep (not Proto Man, Zero or Bass )? I kinda want to see Roll, but her chances are way lower than the three characters mentioned above that got deconfirmed.